Covid 19 Part XXXIV-249,437 ROI(4,906 deaths) 120,195 NI (2,145 deaths)(01/05)Read OP

spakman

Pussyhands wrote: »

Really don't get the MHQ. They say it's variants but why did they not care about that months and months ago and we weren't vaccinating.

Seems strange that NOW they want to quarantine people when the vulnerable and elderly are almost vaccinated.

And what happens if a variant generates IN Ireland? Is that automatically back to level 5?

Because the fear is a variant will be resistant to the vaccine, and we'll be back to square one (level 5, no vaccine) just when we thought we'd be finally able to reopen society

Ger Roe

dodzy wrote: »

Just watching the tv here. 14 deaths reported yesterday.... from April, March, Feb & Jan. Apologies as I’m sure it’s been asked before but how is this? Did they “forget” those other deaths until this week?

It has been asked... many, many..... many, times before.

Family members register the deaths of their relatives. You have up to three months to do it, because in some circumstances it can take time to get the required details together - that's if you are in a mental state well enough to work through the process. Generally, for understandable reasons, people do not rush out to register the death, before the funeral arrangements are made and a period of coping with understandable grief has elapsed.

The announced daily deaths, are not deaths that occurred that day - they are the ones that have now completed the registration process in the time that has passed since the person actually died. It may not be the most expedient process possible, but it wasn't an issue when we didn't have a pandemic to deal with.

The fact that the registration process is currently being completed by post, because the civic registration offices are closed, may also be overly delaying the process.

Sofa King Great

Ger Roe wrote: »

It has been asked... many, many..... many, times before.

Family members register the deaths of their relatives. You have up to three months to do it, because in some circumstances it can take time to get the required details together - that's if you are in a mental state well enough to work through the process. Generally, for understandable reasons, people do not rush out to register the death, before the funeral arrangements are made and a period of coping with understandable grief has elapsed.

The announced daily deaths, are not deaths that occurred that day - they are the ones that have now completed the registration process in the time that has passed since the person actually died. It may not be the most expedient process possible, but it wasn't an issue when we didn't have a pandemic to deal with.

The fact that the registration process is currently being completed by post, because the civic registration offices are closed, may also be overly delaying the process.

While I have every sympathy for people who have lost loved ones, there should be a requirement that a death from a highly contagious disease during a pandemic is notified at the earliest opportunity.

The death rate indicates the impact of the disease on society and contributes to policy decision making etc. It also would allow research to take place on impact of the different variants etc

Ger Roe

is_that_so wrote: »

The law allows people up to 3 months to report. That law should be changed.

Yeah... we should shake people out of their grief to get on with the job, so that boardsies can argue over more accurate figures.

CruelSummer

kippy wrote: »

Read the post my initial reply was to. Saying that deaths would be the same now had we "done nothing".


A lot of people have different views depending on their own circumstances.
I believe too that things could have been handled much better at certain junctures and that some of the optics of what senior politicians did haven't helped.

Covid restrictions will have huge societal and economic consequences everywhere - no matter the levels of restrictions as every where has had to implement restrictions.

But you’re equating us with other western countries there, when in fact we’re a huge outlier. US is reopening, EU countries haven’t had as long of lockdowns or closures as we’ve had - the longest in the Western World. EU countries will also get much more money from the Covid bailout fund, which we will not thanks to our Leprechaun economic figures. Couple this with the Biden corporate tax policy threat and you’ve no economy left to support any restrictions whatsoever.
Who will continue to bailout all of the closed businesses, those without work? How will we fund the upcoming non Covid health crisis? How will the tourism sector recover if we’re not even discussing vaccinated tourists coming in? Eamon Ryan promoting low cost flights being a thing of the past & for us all to get out our bicycles like good little boys and girls. Take a look at the flight radar - the US is back to normal and then some.

TheDoctor

Hospital numbers at 8pm Saturday

Total 211 (up from 200 previous night)
ICU 48 (down from 51 previous night - 1 death)

Lowest number of people in ICU in 2021.
Previous lowest 50 - 1 January

Last Saturday
Total 237
ICU 61

FintanMcluskey

CruelSummer wrote: »

But you’re equating us with other western countries there, when in fact we’re a huge outlier. US is reopening, EU countries haven’t had as long of lockdowns or closures as we’ve had - the longest in the Western World. EU countries will also get much more money from the Covid bailout fund, which we will not thanks to our Leprechaun economic figures. Couple this with the Biden corporate tax policy threat and you’ve no economy left to support any restrictions whatsoever.
Who will continue to bailout all of the closed businesses, those without work? How will we fund the upcoming non Covid health crisis? How will the tourism sector recover if we’re not even discussing vaccinated tourists coming in? Eamon Ryan promoting low cost flights being a thing of the past & for us all to get out our bicycles like good little boys and girls. Take a look at the flight radar - the US is back to normal and then some.

The greatest illusion Irish media and RTE have created is that Ireland is just like the rest of the world since May 2020 regarding suppression measures

Nothing is further from reality

FintanMcluskey

TheDoctor wrote: »

Hospital numbers at 8pm Saturday

Total 211 (up from 200 previous night)
ICU 48 (down from 51 previous night - 1 death)

Lowest number of people in ICU in 2021.
Previous lowest 50 - 1 January

Last Saturday
Total 237
ICU 61

Realistically the discharges tomorrow morning will leave us below 200 in hospital

Ger Roe

Sofa King Great wrote: »

While I have every sympathy for people who have lost loved ones, there should be a requirement that a death from a highly contagious disease during a pandemic is notified at the earliest opportunity.

The death rate indicates the impact of the disease on society and contributes to policy decision making etc. It also would allow research to take place on impact of the different variants etc

Possibly. I don't know why they can't get preliminarly details from the doctor's declaration - that is what the death cert is ultimately based on when the registration process is complete. Again, taking the data at that early source may also have reporting and accuracy issues, it might give a quicker indication of trends, but ultimately the issued death cert is the legal declaration.

For instance, a death I know of recently had an on call doctor declare it at the deceased's home. There was no cause of death on the note, because the drop in doc has no knowledge of previous medical history or condition - he just confirmed death.

The certification of cause and specification of witnesses etc requires further legwork, by family members. Apart from pressuring grieving families to work faster, I don't see how you could get totally accurate details any other way.

Pussyhands

spakman wrote: »

Because the fear is a variant will be resistant to the vaccine, and we'll be back to square one (level 5, no vaccine) just when we thought we'd be finally able to reopen society

But the variants existed months and months ago...so if they were resistant to the vaccine they'd already be in the country.

And variants can be created anywhere, so shouldn't every country be on the list then? A variant can be created in Ireland.

FintanMcluskey

spakman wrote: »

Because the fear is a variant will be resistant to the vaccine, and we'll be back to square one (level 5, no vaccine) just when we thought we'd be finally able to reopen society

So suppression measures to prevent suppression measures

Should we maintain suppression measures in case a new virus turns up?

kippy

CruelSummer wrote: »

But you’re equating us with other western countries there, when in fact we’re a huge outlier. US is reopening, EU countries haven’t had as long of lockdowns or closures as we’ve had - the longest in the Western World. EU countries will also get much more money from the Covid bailout fund, which we will not thanks to our Leprechaun economic figures. Couple this with the Biden corporate tax policy threat and you’ve no economy left to support any restrictions whatsoever.
Who will continue to bailout all of the closed businesses, those without work? How will we fund the upcoming non Covid health crisis? How will the tourism sector recover if we’re not even discussing vaccinated tourists coming in? Eamon Ryan promoting low cost flights being a thing of the past & for us all to get out our bicycles like good little boys and girls. Take a look at the flight radar - the US is back to normal and then some.

I don't know the answers to those questions.

Doctor Jimbob

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

The greatest illusion Irish media and RTE have created is that Ireland is just like the rest of the world since May 2020 regarding suppression measures

Nothing is further from reality

I remember just a few months ago I was disagreeing with you on here because I thought we were on our way out of things and things would be getting better from that point. Shortly afterwards we had Micheál Martin telling the papers we'd be in lockdown until May and I switched to the dark side.

I find it frankly terrifying that we're implementing further restrictions now and so many people are either indifferent or actually supportive of it.

podgeandrodge

Second jab for Beacon teachers

MAEVE SHEEHAN

"Twenty teachers at St Gerard's private school and other vaccine queue-jumpers will receive their second doses of the jab.

The HSE said it has "a duty of care clinically to administer second doses; therefore, vaccinations will have to be honoured” 12 weeks after their first.

The teachers were vaccinated out of turn at the invitation of the chief executive of the Beacon private hospital last month."


If I was one of the teachers, I'd be debating whether the 1st one would suffice! It was Astra vaccine btw.

marno21

M_Murphy57 wrote: »

Half way through April and we are still only vaccinating 100k people a week. When is the "ramping up" to 250k people a week that we are "holding firm" for kicking in ?

The HSE have 180-190k planned this week.

The 250k plan was originally an average over the 3 months of Q2. Now it’ll be substantially higher in late May and June but closer to 200-210k in May.

daydorunrun

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

The greatest illusion Irish media and RTE have created is that Ireland is just like the rest of the world since May 2020 regarding suppression measures

Nothing is further from reality

This, this, this!!

The obvious comparisons drawn up were between us and Sweden while giving the impression lockdown had the same meaning here as everywhere else. Headlines like France goes back into lockdown, justifying our decision to stay in lockdown when their new lockdown afforded things like hairdressers, nonessential shops and outside dining in some cases.
Even now if we compare ourselves to a known non lockdown country like Sweden there is not the huge difference in outcome we were told there would be.
History will show us up as having been very silly in our response to all this.

Professor Moriarty

daydorunrun wrote: »

This, this, this!!

The obvious comparisons drawn up were between us and Sweden while giving the impression lockdown had the same meaning here as everywhere else. Headlines like France goes back into lockdown, justifying our decision to stay in lockdown when their new lockdown afforded things like hairdressers, nonessential shops and outside dining in some cases.
Even now if we compare ourselves to a known non lockdown country like Sweden there is not the huge difference in outcome we were told there would be.
History will show us up as having been very silly in our response to all this.

Sweden's mortality rate is 40% higher.

Jim_Hodge

daydorunrun wrote: »

This, this, this!!

The obvious comparisons drawn up were between us and Sweden while giving the impression lockdown had the same meaning here as everywhere else. Headlines like France goes back into lockdown, justifying our decision to stay in lockdown when their new lockdown afforded things like hairdressers, nonessential shops and outside dining in some cases.
Even now if we compare ourselves to a known non lockdown country like Sweden there is not the huge difference in outcome we were told there would be.
History will show us up as having been very silly in our response to all this.

I'm afraid your definition of 'not a huge difference in outcome' is very different to mine.

podgeandrodge

Nphet's Mary Horgan -

"transmission rates outdoors are extremely low. Move away from crowded situations, and limit your number of contacts when you are outside. There is no risk-free environment. But there is a major risk reduction in the outdoors. Taking this in steps in the best approach. This could lead to more opportunity to open up more outdoor activity, including outdoor dining, sooner."

"She added that there was a lot of positive scientific news emerging that will bolster the reopening of outdoor society. This includes research that now shows there is very little transmission of Covid through contaminated surfaces and objects. Primarily, the virus is spread through respiratory droplets from infected persons, which have much more spreading potential indoors."

All the sanitising/hand washing might be preventing more colds than covid19. I never got into the "washing the shopping" gig though.

robbiezero

podgeandrodge wrote: »

Nphet's Mary Horgan -

"transmission rates outdoors are extremely low. Move away from crowded situations, and limit your number of contacts when you are outside. There is no risk-free environment. But there is a major risk reduction in the outdoors. Taking this in steps in the best approach. This could lead to more opportunity to open up more outdoor activity, including outdoor dining, sooner."

"She added that there was a lot of positive scientific news emerging that will bolster the reopening of outdoor society. This includes research that now shows there is very little transmission of Covid through contaminated surfaces and objects. Primarily, the virus is spread through respiratory droplets from infected persons, which have much more spreading potential indoors."

All the sanitising/hand washing might be preventing more colds than covid19. I never got into the "washing the shopping" gig though.

Hasnt the outdoor stuff not been known long ago?
What are they waiting for?

is_that_so

podgeandrodge wrote: »

Nphet's Mary Horgan -

"transmission rates outdoors are extremely low. Move away from crowded situations, and limit your number of contacts when you are outside. There is no risk-free environment. But there is a major risk reduction in the outdoors. Taking this in steps in the best approach. This could lead to more opportunity to open up more outdoor activity, including outdoor dining, sooner."

"She added that there was a lot of positive scientific news emerging that will bolster the reopening of outdoor society. This includes research that now shows there is very little transmission of Covid through contaminated surfaces and objects. Primarily, the virus is spread through respiratory droplets from infected persons, which have much more spreading potential indoors."

All the sanitising/hand washing might be preventing more colds than covid19. I never got into the "washing the shopping" gig though.

Fomite risk really came from colds and flu' where there is a higher risk and was automatically assumed for COVID, apart from being a perfect panic point. They had us in gloves for quite a while too.

is_that_so

robbiezero wrote: »

Hasnt the outdoor stuff not been known long ago?
What are they waiting for?

It has but they tweaked it by pointing to the risks of too many people gathering, a far greater NPHET worry. Even with the changes coming, masks are advised.

Away With The Fairies

is_that_so wrote: »

Fomite risk really came from colds and flu' where there is a higher risk and was automatically assumed for COVID, apart from being a perfect panic point. They also had us in gloves for quite a while too.

What I don't understand is HSE has fomites and objects as a way of spreading, while also saying airborne spread isn't much of a concern. They should really update their info.

Happydays2020

podgeandrodge wrote: »

Nphet's Mary Horgan -

"transmission rates outdoors are extremely low. Move away from crowded situations, and limit your number of contacts when you are outside. There is no risk-free environment. But there is a major risk reduction in the outdoors. Taking this in steps in the best approach. This could lead to more opportunity to open up more outdoor activity, including outdoor dining, sooner."

"She added that there was a lot of positive scientific news emerging that will bolster the reopening of outdoor society. This includes research that now shows there is very little transmission of Covid through contaminated surfaces and objects. Primarily, the virus is spread through respiratory droplets from infected persons, which have much more spreading potential indoors."

All the sanitising/hand washing might be preventing more colds than covid19. I never got into the "washing the shopping" gig though.

So we can shake hands again but only outdoors?

Away With The Fairies

Happydays2020 wrote: »

So we can shake hands again but only outdoors?

No.

Some people are dirty and don't wash their hands at all.

is_that_so

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

What I don't understand is HSE has fomites and objects as a way of spreading, while also saying airborne spread isn't much of a concern. They should really update their info.

There is a risk but it's now considered to be very small and needs a lot of things to be true. No harm in encouraging better hygiene anyway.

Away With The Fairies

is_that_so wrote: »

There is a risk but it's now considered to be very small and needs a lot of things to be true. No harm in encouraging better hygiene anyway.

There is no harm in encouraging better hygiene. But there is harm in not updating their airborne spread section. God forbid we open windows or spend time outdoors.

is_that_so

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

There is no harm in encouraging better hygiene. But there is harm in not updating their airborne spread section. God forbid we open windows or spend time outdoors.

Send them an email!

CruelSummer

If Anthony Staines is being given airtime on RTÉ radio right now, I hope he'll be questioned as to his tactics into misleading the Irish public.
Why are they trying to achieve the unachievable, who gave them unlimited airtime across all media platforms and silenced more moderate views.
ISAG have made a number of false claims in the last 12 months, including the percentage of children that end up with Long Covid, Gerry Killeen having recently made another false claim on radio.

is_that_so

Probes wrote: »

I feel like I'm having to go backwards and forwards on what was a pretty simple point. More people die of the disease when capacity in health care is strained. i.e. the ratio of people with infections vs deaths from the infection changes.

Which is what I said, anyway moving on.