Covid 19 Part XXXIV-249,437 ROI(4,906 deaths) 120,195 NI (2,145 deaths)(01/05)Read OP

techdiver

Faugheen wrote: »

And that’s all they do.

Anyone who believes otherwise can blame the government who aren’t willing to take responsibility for the bad things caused by their own negligence.

With respect, that is not "just" what they do. If they were exclusively in an advisory capacity (like many other civil servants), they wouldn't be constantly front and centre on tv and posting policy positions on social media.

If we want the government fully accountable for decisions then NPHET need to button up, pass on all information to the government and let them make the decisions.

Like it or not we have de facto handed over all public policy decisions to NPHET. They know this as well as we do. They are only doing their job, I agree. But their job has a laser focused narrow remit.

Kivaro

Seems like things are kicking off in Canada with the country surpassing the US in daily Covid cases per capita, and their vaccination rollout is in serious difficulty with front line healthcare workers only getting one vaccine dose for now. Canadian hospitals are filling up and their vaccine deliveries are unstable. The US did give them 1 1/2 million doses of Astrazeneca. I'd say Justin Trudeau will be in trouble for his handling of the country's response.

Faugheen

techdiver wrote: »

If we want the government fully accountable for decisions then NPHET need to button up, pass on all information to the government and let them make the decisions.

Like it or not we have de facto handed over all public policy decisions to NPHET. They know this as well as we do. They are only doing their job, I agree. But their job has a laser focused narrow remit.

They do that, and the Cabinet asks them to state why they are making these recommendations. Is that not passing over all information?

And I agree their job has a narrow limit. Anyone who suggests otherwise is deluded, but why did the government set up an advisory group containing the top civil servants to analyse the economic and social impact if it’s not being used properly?

The fact the the government is blindly following NPHET is their own fault, because they actually make the decisions.

Faugheen

Faugheen wrote: »

And that’s all they do.

Anyone who believes otherwise can blame the government who aren’t willing to take responsibility for the bad things caused by their own negligence.

No, they have been given an unsupervised public platform. Its not NPHETS fault.....it should never have been set up like this by the government. Whether NPHET are only advisors or not, the perception is that they run the show. Compare to the UK when press conferences are joint, with Chris Whitty & team and government ministers sharing a platform. The minister of the day handles the questions, defers to the scientist on scientific matters, but answers matters of politics and reopening themselves.

That is the way that it should have been set up. One combined presence and voice. What we have is NPHET crowding the airwaves, the press kneeling before them, and the government constantly appearing to be playing catch up

timmyntc

Faugheen wrote: »

And that’s all they do.

Anyone who believes otherwise can blame the government who aren’t willing to take responsibility for the bad things caused by their own negligence.

Then why last October, when the govt ignored NPHET advice - did NPHET go over the govts heads and straight to the media?

If they are a purely advisory body then it should end there, but they clearly are not.
NPHET attempted to strongarm the government into doing what they wanted. It was clear as day

funnydoggy

Sunday 11th April: +5,272 Total Doses


https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/news/newsfeatures/covid19-updates/vaccination-programme-dashboard-as-of-11-april-2021.pdf

CIARAN_BOYLE

timmyntc wrote: »

Then why last October, when the govt ignored NPHET advice - did NPHET go over the govts heads and straight to the media?

If they are a purely advisory body then it should end there, but they clearly are not.
NPHET attempted to strongarm the government into doing what they wanted. It was clear as day

No one determined who leaked that.

Holohan said it wasn't him. At any rate the reccomendations would ha e gone public when nphet letters got published a week or two later.

mloc123

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

No one determined who leaked that.

Holohan said it wasn't him. At any rate the reccomendations would ha e gone public when nphet letters got published a week or two later.

IMO... Holohan is a little too political. He doesn't seem to think that their role ends at just advising the government. Glynn on the other hand does, and said as much last week in some of the press conferences... their role is to be cautious and advise, and then government need to decide how to balance that.

Igotadose

funnydoggy wrote: »

Sunday 11th April: +5,272 Total Doses


https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/news/newsfeatures/covid19-updates/vaccination-programme-dashboard-as-of-11-april-2021.pdf

Why so few? Lack of vaccines?

FlubberJones

funnydoggy wrote: »

Sunday 11th April: +5,272 Total Doses


https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/news/newsfeatures/covid19-updates/vaccination-programme-dashboard-as-of-11-april-2021.pdf

That is piss poor, the roll out seems to be going backwards.. again and now the Astra issues will be a scapegoat for the governments shambolic efforts

Vicxas

https://www.thejournal.ie/varadkar-astrazeneca-5408026-Apr2021/

And here comes Leo, laying the groundwork for screwing us over.

seamus

FlubberJones wrote: »

That is piss poor, the roll out seems to be going backwards.. again and now the Astra issues will be a scapegoat for the governments shambolic efforts

So if it's a scapegoat, then what's the "real" problem, according to you?

KrustyUCC

Igotadose wrote: »

Why so few? Lack of vaccines?

That's actually decent for a Sunday

Sunday before was (+3,763)

stephenjmcd

Vicxas wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/varadkar-astrazeneca-5408026-Apr2021/

And here comes Leo, laying the groundwork for screwing us over.

What screwing over ?

He's right, there's going to be a delay, I don't see how there won't be. The extent of which will be known in the coming days.

180k wont be done this week or next week & the whole rollout plan has to change now. It'll take a few days to get it all ironed out

KrustyUCC

Charles Babbage wrote: »

This isn't a reasonable analysis, by the end of June three quarters of people will have had a vaccine shot and circumstances will be much better, not perfect, but better.

We'll see

The vaccine rollout is in serious trouble after NIAC advice yesterday

That rollout is linked to easing restrictions

At the end of June important things like hospitality and ataycations will be up fir discussion

The things that NPHET are afraid of and will be even more Conservative than usual in opening up and will push things out as far as possible

Sad to think

We'll get this long phased reopening BS of any easing of restrictions once again if we're lucky

eagle eye

So as per usual we are backwards. I've just been told that even if you are vaccinated and take a test before and after your arrival from the US you have to do two weeks quarantine at your own expense.
How does this make any sense?
If vaccinated and tested you pose no threat. And anybody, vaccinated or not, who does a test before leaving and one when they arrive and passes both is not a threat either. Why would they have to do two weeks?

MerlinSouthDub

In total we were due to get 800,000 AZ doses in Q2. 200,000 of these would be needed for second doses to people who got AZ in Q1. We have about 500,000 people aged 60 to 69.

So, this leaves us with about 100,000 doses of AZ which we won't use in Q2. This doesn't massively change what we can do by June.

My big worry now is the J&J vaccine. If this has similar blood cost issues, that will be put a massive hole in our plans.

bucketybuck

Vicxas wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/varadkar-astrazeneca-5408026-Apr2021/

And here comes Leo, laying the groundwork for screwing us over.

Do you remember at the start of January people were getting sneered at for having scepticism regarding the vaccine rollout, how despite its importance there were already signs that it would be far slower than acceptable?

Well here we are, targets missed every step of the way, coming up on 4 months gone and now the kites are flying to tell us May and June will be lost as well, which actually means July and August a write off.

The apologists will line up to tell us that "actually..." but stockholm syndrome aside, I think most people realise at this stage that our government is dangerously incompetent.

RGS

timmyntc wrote: »

Then why last October, when the govt ignored NPHET advice - did NPHET go over the govts heads and straight to the media?

If they are a purely advisory body then it should end there, but they clearly are not.
NPHET attempted to strongarm the government into doing what they wanted. It was clear as day

Just to edit your post


NPHET did not attempt to strong arm the government they did strong arm the government.

jams100

KrustyUCC wrote: »

That's actually decent for a Sunday

Sunday before was (+3,763)

Piss poor imo. We were constantly told in Jan and Feb that it was all about Q2!, It was Q2 this, Q2 that, I know its still early in Q2 but it looks like they are going to miss the targets once again. We're just being strung along

KrustyUCC

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

In total we were due to get 800,000 AZ doses in Q2. 200,000 of these would be needed for second doses to people who got AZ in Q1. We have about 500,000 people aged 60 to 69.

So, this leaves us with about 100,000 doses of AZ which we won't use in Q2. This doesn't massively change what we can do by June.

My big worry now is the J&J vaccine. If this has similar blood cost issues, that will be put a massive hole in our plans.

Yes J&J is the real joker

We need the 605,000 doses to be 605,000 fully vaccinated people

If NIAC have the same advice as AZ it's going to be a disaster

eagle eye

bucketybuck wrote:

The apologists will line up to tell us that "actually..." but stockholm syndrome aside, I think most people realise at this stage that our government is dangerously incompetent.

Both this government and the last one, made up mainly of the same two parties, have shown how incompetent they are. And the leader of the other big party has shown how incompetent she is by attending funerals and contracting covid through lack of responsibility.
We need a new political party made up of intelligent people with a history of actually working for a living and not a career of looking after their public image.

Professor Moriarty

bucketybuck wrote: »

Do you remember at the start of January people were getting sneered at for having scepticism regarding the vaccine rollout, how despite its importance there were already signs that it would be far slower than acceptable?

Well here we are, targets missed every step of the way, coming up on 4 months gone and now the kites are flying to tell us May and June will be lost as well, which actually means July and August a write off.

The apologists will line up to tell us that "actually..." but stockholm syndrome aside, I think most people realise at this stage that our government is dangerously incompetent.

Who in the Dáil would provide better Covid-19 leadership?

MerlinSouthDub

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Yes J&J is the real joker

We need the 605,000 doses to be 605,000 fully vaccinated people

If NIAC have the same advice as AZ it's going to be a disaster

Yep. The incidences of blood clot issues on J&J does seem lower at the moment, based on US data anyway.

We really need to be a bit innovative at this stage - like somewhat widening the dose interval on Pfizer. Even making this 6 or 8 weeks would make a big difference.

People will not accept being unable to have a normal enough summer (like last summer).

AdamD

Have the US not already given out millions of J&J doses?

marno21

Based on what I’ve seen around this phrase in relation to AstraZeneca and the reopening of society, I wouldn’t be surprised to wake up some morning soon to the news that all speed limits have been reduced to 60km/h due to an “abundance of caution”.

I was driving yesterday morning. I started the journey with the news from Liverpool. Excited people in the pub, relieved hairdresser, relieved staff at Chester Zoo. Followed by really positive Luke O’Neill. Then I flicked to Radio 1 where Sam McConkey was telling us that we won’t have crowds at events for 3-5 years.

It’s no wonder morale in this country is absolutely ****ed. It’s also no wonder that almost everyone I know my age is ready to pack up and leave when it’s possible. Another Fianna Fáil government seeing tens of thousands of young people heading straight for the airport.

Professor Moriarty

Perspective is important too. If somebody dies due to clotting as a result of a vaccine then that is a terrible tragedy. Yet, as things stand, you are more likely to die from thrombosis as a result of long distance flying than from a Covid-19 vaccine.

mloc123

eagle eye wrote: »

Both this government and the last one, made up mainly of the same two parties, have shown how incompetent they are. And the leader of the other big party has shown how incompetent she is by attending funerals and contracting covid through lack of responsibility.
We need a new political party made up of intelligent people with a history of actually working for a living and not a career of looking after their public image.

The problem with politics is... the salary attracts idiots. Because, any competent person can easily make that money in the private sector... and more without the constant criticism from the general public.

So you are left with people that are too stupid to make it in private industry and also love the limelight.

celt262

marno21 wrote: »

It’s no wonder morale in this country is absolutely ****ed. It’s also no wonder that almost everyone I know my age is ready to pack up and leave when it’s possible. Another Fianna Fáil government seeing tens of thousands of young people heading straight for the airport.

Where are they thinking of going?

seamus

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Perspective is important too. If somebody dies due to clotting as a result of a vaccine then that is a terrible tragedy. Yet, as things stand, you are more likely to die from thrombosis as a result of long distance flying than from a Covid-19 vaccine.

These stats vary considerably depending on age and gender.

And at the end of the day, this isn't a long-haul flight, it's a vaccine which is being supplied in the context of something that is necessary for everyone to take.

If we were saying that everyone in the country was being asked to make two long-haul flights this year in order to end the pandemic, then the issue of DVT would indeed come up.