Covid 19 Part XXXIV-249,437 ROI(4,906 deaths) 120,195 NI (2,145 deaths)(01/05)Read OP

GeorgeBailey

Faugheen wrote: »

What’s that? Weddings? Hairdressers? Maternity Hospitals?

I can guarantee that’s of more interest to women (especially young women) than when they’re going to get their vaccine.

Don’t see why that belongs in ‘gossip’ slots and the fact you’re so dismissive of those issues is a sign that it doesn’t impact you.

Just because it doesn’t impact you doesn’t mean that applies across the board.

Wedding questions are also important to those working in the industry, e.g. me. None of the "real" journalists ask so I'm grateful that at least somebody does.

Faugheen

GeorgeBailey wrote: »

Wedding questions are also important to those working in the industry, e.g. me. None of the "real" journalists ask so I'm grateful that at least somebody does.

Exactly. But for some reason people here think trying to get an answer out of them is ‘braindead’ when it impacts a lot of families, businesses and employees.

OwenM

Supercell wrote: »

With all the positive news and talk of easing restrictions it seems to me that we are taking our eye of the ball a little.
The P1 varient appears to be widely taking over from the UK variant (B117) , hits younger people harder and vaccines do not seem to be as effective. Seems to be very little thought or mention of this going on, should we be concerned?

https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1382242716667502594?s=20

https://twitter.com/rbclouston/status/1382731098095026178?s=20

Maybe we should all just find a hole, climb in and die. Would that make you happy? There is evidence of reduced efficacy from some variants but there is no evidence whatsoever that they are not protect people from serious illness, hospital admission or death.

is_that_so

GeorgeBailey wrote: »

Wedding questions are also important to those working in the industry, e.g. me. None of the "real" journalists ask so I'm grateful that at least somebody does.

One would hope they have better sources for that, like the government.

Faugheen

Benimar wrote: »

Do you honestly believe that people doing so will ‘destroy our economy for a generation’?

I see the ‘language matters’ crowd are very quiet right now.

zebastein

Quick question: if everybody is emphasizing how much being outdoor is better than being indoor (Nolan just said that Easter helped because people were outside and not in an indoor office), why does the Gardai continue to close the parkings everywhere so that people can not go to outdoor places ?
They continue to close the gates or existing parking areas in Phoenix park to make it difficult for people to reach the park.
The kind of things described in these old articles is still in place:
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/gates-at-dublin-s-phoenix-park-to-close-over-weekends-1.4395454?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fenvironment%2Fgates-at-dublin-s-phoenix-park-to-close-over-weekends-1.4395454

https://www.thejournal.ie/phoenix-park-side-gates-complaints-5290762-Dec2020/

They also closed parking areas in Wicklow so that people are "discouraged" to go there. How is it helping public safety ?

caveat emptor

OwenM wrote: »

Maybe we should all just find a hole, climb in and die. Would that make you happy? There is evidence of reduced efficacy from some variants but there is no evidence whatsoever that they are not protect people from serious illness, hospital admission or death.

I agree that there is evidence of reduced efficacy with some variants but the piece in bold works both ways.

There is no evidence that they don't protect from serious illness, hospital admission or death is equivalent to

There is no evidence that they do protect from serious illness, hospital admission or death is equivalent to

They probably do though.

robbiezero

zebastein wrote: »

Quick question: if everybody is emphasizing how much being outdoor is better than being indoor (Nolan just said that Easter helped because people were outside and not in an indoor office), why does the Gardai continue to close the parkings everywhere so that people can not go to outdoor places ?
They continue to close the gates or existing parking areas in Phoenix park to make it difficult for people to reach the park.
The kind of things described in these old articles is still in place:
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/gates-at-dublin-s-phoenix-park-to-close-over-weekends-1.4395454?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fenvironment%2Fgates-at-dublin-s-phoenix-park-to-close-over-weekends-1.4395454

https://www.thejournal.ie/phoenix-park-side-gates-complaints-5290762-Dec2020/

They also closed parking areas in Wicklow so that people are "discouraged" to go there. How is it helping public safety ?

Don't expect to find much sense in a lot of what we are doing. The outdoor restrictions have almost always been a joke and its baffling how they are still not lifted.

zebastein

zebastein wrote: »

Quick question: if everybody is emphasizing how much being outdoor is better than being indoor (Nolan just said that Easter helped because people were outside and not in an indoor office), why does the Gardai continue to close the parkings everywhere so that people can not go to outdoor places ?
They continue to close the gates or existing parking areas in Phoenix park to make it difficult for people to reach the park.
The kind of things described in these old articles is still in place:
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/gates-at-dublin-s-phoenix-park-to-close-over-weekends-1.4395454?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fenvironment%2Fgates-at-dublin-s-phoenix-park-to-close-over-weekends-1.4395454

https://www.thejournal.ie/phoenix-park-side-gates-complaints-5290762-Dec2020/

They also closed parking areas in Wicklow so that people are "discouraged" to go there. How is it helping public safety ?

The Phoenix Park things are not so much Covid related any more, but part of a broader park strategy (much of which I agree with). There is a consultation paper out and a couple of threads on it here.

Making it hard to park up in the Wicklow mountains and other outdoor areas makes no sense though

Supercell

Supercell wrote: »

With all the positive news and talk of easing restrictions it seems to me that we are taking our eye of the ball a little.
The P1 varient appears to be widely taking over from the UK variant (B117) , hits younger people harder and vaccines do not seem to be as effective. Seems to be very little thought or mention of this going on, should we be concerned?

https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1382242716667502594?s=20

https://twitter.com/rbclouston/status/1382731098095026178?s=20

I have been somewhat surprised to find over the past few weeks/months or more that when I search on boards to see if Geert Vanden Bossche has been mentioned yet there is still no word of him. I heard about him 6 weeks ago.

People will class him with all manner of ludramáns like Yeadon and Cahill et al, but I actually think he has something worthwhile to say and is credible. I do not know if he is correct or if he will be proven right or wrong, but I think his science is worth considering. He is not in the same league as people being dismissed as conspiracy types, in other words.

He has top notch qualifications and huge experience as an immunologist, vaccinologist, virologist, working at the highest level in international organisations, and people still try to dismiss him by saying he is just a Vet. He was a major co-ordinator of the Ebola vaccine program working with GAVI, but let us damn him to hell as irrelevant now that he will not get in lock-step.

Anyway what Geert says is vaccines are great, they are brilliant for people who are vulnerable. He is a vaccinologist after all. But what one should never do, he says, is MASS vaccinate in the HEAT of a pandemic. The prevalence of the virus in the population accompanied by permeable vaccination (people half vaccinated, people not going to be vaccinated for ages, people who have had mild covid and produced weak antibody titers) creates immune escape pressure on the virus and favours the evolution of mutations that will evade the vaccine. It recreates similar conditions to what scientists do when they want to serial passage viruses to mutate/evolve them in the lab, by applying a weak pressure on them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_passage

Please note less than 3% of the world's population have been vaccinated. The vast majority of people in the world will not be vaccinated for a very long time, the virus will be evolving in places like Brazil while the rich parts of the world try to defend themselves with ever-repeating vaccines that will not be fully protective against variants evolving where the virus is spreading rapidly - I do not know why these obvious facts are not discussed. Also vaccinated people, he believes, will be carrying these variations, but asymptomatically (as was recently reported by RTE - https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0411/1209143-covid-ireland/ )

I think Vanden Bossche is worth considering. He has tons of paperwork, links, resources and some videos at his site. https://www.geertvandenbossche.org/ I have spoken with a scientist learned in these fields and he says Vanden Bossche makes very valid points.

Anyways, just for the information of people who may be interested. I don't know how things will come to pass. I am not interested in being sneered at now by the people who have become omniscient virologists in the past year. I am just interested in passing on information I have found to be worth pondering.
Over and out.

shtpEdthePlum

I'm definitely planning on breaking the rules about not having people over to the garden. Several people i know are fully vaccinated. We might even let them use the toilet if they're polite and not weird from a lack of social contact this past year.

Deeper Blue

People are seriously still posting Eric Feigl Ding tweets?

This is the guy that once called the B.1.351 a "badass mutation".

He's a sensationalist muppet dying for attention.

Oh and his graph couldn't possibly be more misleading.

is_that_so

Deleted User wrote: »

I have been somewhat surprised to find over the past few weeks/months or more that when I search on boards to see if Geert Vanden Bossche has been mentioned yet there is still no word of him. I heard about him 6 weeks ago.

People will class him with all manner of ludramáns like Yeadon and Cahill et al, but I actually think he has something worthwhile to say and is credible. I do not know if he is correct or if he will be proven right or wrong, but I think his science is worth considering. He is not in the same league as people being dismissed as conspiracy types, in other words.

He has top notch qualifications and huge experience as an immunologist, vaccinologist, virologist, working at the highest level in international organisations, and people still try to dismiss him by saying he is just a Vet. He was a major co-ordinator of the Ebola vaccine program working with GAVI, but let us damn him to hell as irrelevant now that he will not get in lock-step.

Anyway what Geert says is vaccines are great, they are brilliant for people who are vulnerable. He is a vaccinologist after all. But what one should never do, he says, is MASS vaccinate in the HEAT of a pandemic. The prevalence of the virus in the population accompanied by permeable vaccination (people half vaccinated, people not going to be vaccinated for ages, people who have had mild covid and produced weak antibody titers) creates immune escape pressure on the virus and favours the evolution of mutations that will evade the vaccine. It recreates similar conditions to what scientists do when they want to serial passage viruses to mutate/evolve them in the lab, by applying a weak pressure on them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_passage

Please note less than 3% of the world's population have been vaccinated. The vast majority of people in the world will not be vaccinated for a very long time, the virus will be evolving in places like Brazil while the rich parts of the world try to defend themselves with ever-repeating vaccines that will not be fully protective against variants evolving where the virus is spreading rapidly - I do not know why these obvious facts are not discussed. Also vaccinated people, he believes, will be carrying these variations, but asymptomatically (as was recently reported by RTE - https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0411/1209143-covid-ireland/ )

I think Vanden Bossche is worth considering. He has tons of paperwork, links, resources and some videos at his site. https://www.geertvandenbossche.org/ I have spoken with a scientist learned in these fields and he says Vanden Bossche makes very valid points.

Anyways, just for the information of people who may be interested. I don't know how things will come to pass. I am not interested in being sneered at now by the people who have become omniscient virologists in the past year. I am just interested in passing on information I have found to be worth pondering.
Over and out.

This article doesn't think much of him at all and says he's wrong. Apparently he's a vet with a PhD who indulges in pseudoscience.


https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/covid-19-critical-thinking-pseudoscience/doomsday-prophecy-dr-geert-vanden-bossche

Here's a fact checker article to go with it.

https://factcheck.afp.com/mass-covid-19-vaccination-will-not-lead-out-control-variants

is_that_so

is_that_so wrote: »

This article doesn't think much of him at all and says he's wrong. Apparently he's a vet with a PhD who indulges in pseudoscience.


https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/covid-19-critical-thinking-pseudoscience/doomsday-prophecy-dr-geert-vanden-bossche

Of course people have been jumping up and down to contradict him as quickly as possible. The first day he spoke out the critics were out also. I have read lots of their stuff too - some good, some very thin on facts or experience.

Time will tell. We should know quite soon in fact.

For me personally I am interested in various sides to stories. He is credible and I believe he is very sincere. That does not mean he is correct. In fact I hope he is incorrect. But I am not sure if he is incorrect.

Perhaps give a listen to what he says or read what he writes.

stephenjmcd

EU commission has contacted the government with regards to MHQ. There are concerns if its in line with EU law.... well I for one am shocked... nobody saw this coming



https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1382756955521945600?s=19

is_that_so

Deleted User wrote: »

Of course people have been jumping up and down to contradict him as quickly as possible. The first day he spoke out the critics were out also. I have read lots of their stuff too - some good, some very thin on facts or experience.

Time will tell. We should know quite soon in fact.

For me personally I am interested in various sides to stories. He is credible and I believe he is very sincere. That does not mean he is correct. In fact I hope he is incorrect. But I am not sure if he is incorrect.

Perhaps give a listen to what he says or read what he writes.

"debunking Geert Vanden Bossche" will give you a lot more and they can't all be wrong. If critics are out so fast during this it tends to mean they perceive a problem. I already have enough sources to turn to thanks.

Amirani

zebastein wrote: »

Quick question: if everybody is emphasizing how much being outdoor is better than being indoor (Nolan just said that Easter helped because people were outside and not in an indoor office), why does the Gardai continue to close the parkings everywhere so that people can not go to outdoor places ?
They continue to close the gates or existing parking areas in Phoenix park to make it difficult for people to reach the park.
The kind of things described in these old articles is still in place:
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/gates-at-dublin-s-phoenix-park-to-close-over-weekends-1.4395454?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fenvironment%2Fgates-at-dublin-s-phoenix-park-to-close-over-weekends-1.4395454

https://www.thejournal.ie/phoenix-park-side-gates-complaints-5290762-Dec2020/

They also closed parking areas in Wicklow so that people are "discouraged" to go there. How is it helping public safety ?

Because when the park gets full of cars it makes it less usable for people. I know people with small kids for example that avoid the park on busy days because there's just cars everywhere.

It's supposed to be a park, that's why they stop it filling with cars over the weekend. Just park outside and walk in, it's not hard.

saabsaab

Deleted User wrote: »

I have been somewhat surprised to find over the past few weeks/months or more that when I search on boards to see if Geert Vanden Bossche has been mentioned yet there is still no word of him. I heard about him 6 weeks ago.

People will class him with all manner of ludramáns like Yeadon and Cahill et al, but I actually think he has something worthwhile to say and is credible. I do not know if he is correct or if he will be proven right or wrong, but I think his science is worth considering. He is not in the same league as people being dismissed as conspiracy types, in other words.

He has top notch qualifications and huge experience as an immunologist, vaccinologist, virologist, working at the highest level in international organisations, and people still try to dismiss him by saying he is just a Vet. He was a major co-ordinator of the Ebola vaccine program working with GAVI, but let us damn him to hell as irrelevant now that he will not get in lock-step.

Anyway what Geert says is vaccines are great, they are brilliant for people who are vulnerable. He is a vaccinologist after all. But what one should never do, he says, is MASS vaccinate in the HEAT of a pandemic. The prevalence of the virus in the population accompanied by permeable vaccination (people half vaccinated, people not going to be vaccinated for ages, people who have had mild covid and produced weak antibody titers) creates immune escape pressure on the virus and favours the evolution of mutations that will evade the vaccine. It recreates similar conditions to what scientists do when they want to serial passage viruses to mutate/evolve them in the lab, by applying a weak pressure on them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_passage

Please note less than 3% of the world's population have been vaccinated. The vast majority of people in the world will not be vaccinated for a very long time, the virus will be evolving in places like Brazil while the rich parts of the world try to defend themselves with ever-repeating vaccines that will not be fully protective against variants evolving where the virus is spreading rapidly - I do not know why these obvious facts are not discussed. Also vaccinated people, he believes, will be carrying these variations, but asymptomatically (as was recently reported by RTE - https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0411/1209143-covid-ireland/ )

I think Vanden Bossche is worth considering. He has tons of paperwork, links, resources and some videos at his site. https://www.geertvandenbossche.org/ I have spoken with a scientist learned in these fields and he says Vanden Bossche makes very valid points.

Anyways, just for the information of people who may be interested. I don't know how things will come to pass. I am not interested in being sneered at now by the people who have become omniscient virologists in the past year. I am just interested in passing on information I have found to be worth pondering.
Over and out.

Thanks, that makes sense and is worrying. But what alternatives do we have at this time to limit the risk?

Deeper Blue

It's inevitable that MHQ will be scrapped in my opinion, whether it's because of the EC or the inevitable high court challenges.

I say that as someone that's been in favour of it all along.

I believe the prudent thing to do would be to cut our losses at this stage.

I will however give credit to the government for trying it, even if it was 11 months too late.

is_that_so

Deeper Blue wrote: »

It's inevitable that MHQ will be scrapped in my opinion, whether it's because of the EC or the inevitable high court challenges.

I say that as someone that's been in favour of it all along.

I believe the prudent thing to do would be to cut our losses at this stage.

I will however give credit to the government for trying it, even if it was 11 months too late.

It was more in response to a Dail demand for it and apparently a public appetite for it.

jackboy

Deleted User wrote: »

I have been somewhat surprised to find over the past few weeks/months or more that when I search on boards to see if Geert Vanden Bossche has been mentioned yet there is still no word of him. I heard about him 6 weeks ago.

People will class him with all manner of ludramáns like Yeadon and Cahill et al, but I actually think he has something worthwhile to say and is credible. I do not know if he is correct or if he will be proven right or wrong, but I think his science is worth considering. He is not in the same league as people being dismissed as conspiracy types, in other words.

He has top notch qualifications and huge experience as an immunologist, vaccinologist, virologist, working at the highest level in international organisations, and people still try to dismiss him by saying he is just a Vet. He was a major co-ordinator of the Ebola vaccine program working with GAVI, but let us damn him to hell as irrelevant now that he will not get in lock-step.

Anyway what Geert says is vaccines are great, they are brilliant for people who are vulnerable. He is a vaccinologist after all. But what one should never do, he says, is MASS vaccinate in the HEAT of a pandemic. The prevalence of the virus in the population accompanied by permeable vaccination (people half vaccinated, people not going to be vaccinated for ages, people who have had mild covid and produced weak antibody titers) creates immune escape pressure on the virus and favours the evolution of mutations that will evade the vaccine. It recreates similar conditions to what scientists do when they want to serial passage viruses to mutate/evolve them in the lab, by applying a weak pressure on them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_passage

Please note less than 3% of the world's population have been vaccinated. The vast majority of people in the world will not be vaccinated for a very long time, the virus will be evolving in places like Brazil while the rich parts of the world try to defend themselves with ever-repeating vaccines that will not be fully protective against variants evolving where the virus is spreading rapidly - I do not know why these obvious facts are not discussed. Also vaccinated people, he believes, will be carrying these variations, but asymptomatically (as was recently reported by RTE - https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0411/1209143-covid-ireland/ )

I think Vanden Bossche is worth considering. He has tons of paperwork, links, resources and some videos at his site. https://www.geertvandenbossche.org/ I have spoken with a scientist learned in these fields and he says Vanden Bossche makes very valid points.

Anyways, just for the information of people who may be interested. I don't know how things will come to pass. I am not interested in being sneered at now by the people who have become omniscient virologists in the past year. I am just interested in passing on information I have found to be worth pondering.
Over and out.

All true and well known but each individual country have only two choices. Go for zero covid and keep the borders locked for the long term. The other option is vaccines. There is no third option which wouldn’t lead to complete disaster. We have no choice but to take a chance.

stephenjmcd

And just like that the beginning of the end for MHQ

https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1382768346270142465?s=19

Ferris_Bueller

I've heard off a few people today that retail and hairdressers etc are now expected to open in May, but haven't read much about it on here or seen much about it on twitter. Does anyone have any links to tweets/articles or is it just hearsay?

is_that_so

Ferris_Bueller wrote: »

I've heard off a few people today that retail and hairdressers etc are now expected to open in May, but haven't read much about it on here or seen much about it on twitter. Does anyone have any links to tweets/articles or is it just hearsay?

Ask Leo!

DebDynamite

Deeper Blue wrote: »

It's inevitable that MHQ will be scrapped in my opinion, whether it's because of the EC or the inevitable high court challenges.

I say that as someone that's been in favour of it all along.

I believe the prudent thing to do would be to cut our losses at this stage.

I will however give credit to the government for trying it, even if it was 11 months too late.

Agreed. I think questions need to be asked of Fine Gael why they didn’t attempt it when NPHET recommended it last year. I remember people were up in arms last summer any time an American was spotted, and especially following that Pat Kenny Show reporter at the airport talking to Americans who had just flown in. It really does seem too late now though.

saabsaab

is_that_so wrote: »

It was more in response to a Dail demand for it and apparently a public appetite for it.

It was more than that. Experts had warned about importing variants. This is still the case.

Eod100

stephenjmcd wrote: »

And just like that the beginning of the end for MHQ

https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1382768346270142465?s=19

Makes sense and frees up capacity but say it will still exist for another while anyway. Was always going to be a temporary measure.

is_that_so

DebDynamite wrote: »

Agreed. I think questions need to be asked of Fine Gael why they didn’t attempt it when NPHET recommended it last year. I remember people were up in arms last summer any time an American was spotted, and especially following that Pat Kenny Show reporter at the airport talking to Americans who had just flown in. It really does seem too late now though.

They don't agree with it as a policy is why and they immediately foresaw the current capacity issue.

is_that_so

saabsaab wrote: »

It was more than that. Experts had warned about importing variants. This is still the case.

18 cases v c. 800 in walk-ins suggests a pretty skewed priority in terms of risk.

DebDynamite

is_that_so wrote: »

They don't agree with it as a policy is why and they immediately foresaw the current capacity issue.

Of course there’s going to be capacity issues when they’re only using one hotel. I might be wrong, but I don’t think they’ve even used Clontarf Castle and The Hard Rock Hotel yet.