Covid 19 Part XXXIV-249,437 ROI(4,906 deaths) 120,195 NI (2,145 deaths)(01/05)Read OP

arccosh

exitfee wrote: »

Real world

Find me a person that was infected via fomites

7 billion people shouldn't be hard

everyone in the world has had COVID? :rolleyes:
There's a few case studies in there, particularly in China, if you can't be bothered to look through, that's fine, just say so and we can disregard your statement as opinion.

unfortunately, the argument plays into your hands, as
1) all reported fomite infections are looked into retrospectively
2) it is still ethically disallowed to infect people with pathogens which could kill them

A note on point 2:
There has been special licences granted for this type of testing to take place again but mostly in regards to checking vaccine efficacy, and not into transmission vectors

Coming back to point 1... as infections are are looked into retrospectively, unless there are direct contacts, you are looking a common causal effects...

Some interesting case studies where unless someone was blatantly lying, fomite transmission was the only realist causal factor... but that can't be proved 100% unfortunately....

CIARAN_BOYLE

NSAman wrote: »

I have no problem with official record keeping. It seems extremely weird to infer todays death toll is 15, when in fact it isn’t.

I am not in any way diminishing the loss those families have suffered, but to me it seems as if this is scaremongering.

Surely figures should be clear and unambiguous.

The only people who make those inferences are the press and the idiots on social media.

The press release is clear and unambiguous.

wes

lawred2 wrote: »

:rolleyes:

I see no reason to not believe people I actually know telling me what is going on. Its very believable due to the crematoriums being hugely backed up.

Here they have pictures of funeral pyres outside being setup:
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/4/20/non-stop-cremations-cast-doubt-on-indias-counting-of-covid-dead

Things are bad in in India. Government has ****ed up very, very badly, and I am not just hearing stuff from the news or twitter, but people who live there.

humberklog

I see Denmark have gone ahead of Ireland on Worldmeter in relation to infections (not deaths, we're nearly double their numbers). That's the first time in a few months they've more than us. They've been reporting about 700+ infections per day in the last week.

I've been following Denmark and Ireland for the last few months as Denmark is it's EU and fairly similar to Ireland re population.

I wonder what's up in Denmark. Are their shops open? Pubs? Restaurants?

funnydoggy

India this fúcking virus

RebelButtMunch

humberklog wrote: »

I see Denmark have gone ahead of Ireland on Worldmeter in relation to infections (not deaths, we're nearly double their numbers). That's the first time in a few months they've more than us. They've been reporting about 700+ infections per day in the last week.

I've been following Denmark and Ireland for the last few months as Denmark is it's EU and fairly similar to Ireland re population.

I wonder what's up in Denmark. Are their shops open? Pubs? Restaurants?

Yeah. They have opened up ahead of us

MerlinSouthDub

GP referral data for yesterday is out. Up on same day last week but down on Tuesday. Nothing of major concern, I would say.

https://tomorrowscare.ie/covid/2021-04-22_COVID_GP_Survey_Results.pdf

humberklog

RebelButtMunch wrote: »

Yeah. They have opened up ahead of us

Just looking them up there...they've a Passport App. It shows whether you've been tested recently and the Gov. are asking people to get tested 2-3 times a week.

Denmark only re-opened bars and restaurants yesterday (seating outside only).

exitfee

exitfee wrote: »

All those HCW's, including my wife got infected via aerosol transmission, seeped through those mask's and PPE.

So not aerosol then?

BrianD3

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

The only people who make those inferences are the press and the idiots on social media.

The press release is clear and unambiguous.

Good communication skills involve gauging how your words will be interpreted by others which includes the general public, press and idiots.

E.g

The Dept has been notified of 15 additional Covid deaths
5 of these were in April
10 were in previous months

vs

The Dept has been notified of 5 additional Covid deaths in April
The Dept has also been notified of 10 additional deaths in previous months

With the first one, it is entirely predictable that the press and idiots will seize on the headline figure. Much less so with second one. And yes, this implies that the press are too stupid to add 5 and 10 and come up with their own headline.

I've worked in the public service including on press releases on controversial issues. A lot of thought goes into the wording and how the press and public will react. Sometimes mistakes happen and communication is unintentionally poor. However the people in the Dept preparing these press releases are likely far more clever and experienced than most journalists and should be assumed to know exactly what they are doing.

Akesh

humberklog wrote: »

I see Denmark have gone ahead of Ireland on Worldmeter in relation to infections (not deaths, we're nearly double their numbers). That's the first time in a few months they've more than us. They've been reporting about 700+ infections per day in the last week.

I've been following Denmark and Ireland for the last few months as Denmark is it's EU and fairly similar to Ireland re population.

I wonder what's up in Denmark. Are their shops open? Pubs? Restaurants?

Denmark probably didn't send untested people into nursing homes. In February we had over 1,500 deaths in nursing homes alone. This will be a major scandal when the dust settles as many residents and some staff lost their lives due to the incompetence of the HSE.

podgeandrodge

wes wrote: »

Things are so bad in India that an MP from the current ruling party couldn't get his brother a hospital bed.

I have also heard stories of bodies being burned in the street. Apartment complexes where 25% of residents are infected. People on social media begging for help, on where they can find oxygen, hospital beds etc.

Also, the government is deliberately down playing cases, with them marking covid deaths as not being from covid etc.

The situation India is very, very bad. Its not just me hearing this from twitter, but from people I work with it as well.

What is going on in India is a tragedy and imo its so bad the government needs to go to jail for what is going on.

lawred2 wrote: »

:rolleyes:

UK Independent: India coronavirus: Bodies piling up at Delhi crematoriums as human remains ‘burned next to pavement’.

exitfee

exitfee wrote: »

Those masks don't work, 48 staff in her place, 44 got infected in January, all had PPE, if your infront of a contagious person your getting Covid, mask or no mask.

Seeping through the mask suggests droplets on the surface.

The truth is however, that no face mask is 100% effective. It just reduces risk. Being "in front of a contagious person" means the risk is substantial, therefore the likelyhood of transmission increases, irrespective of mask.

Now, none of what you have said in any way demonstrates that anyone of those cases was definitely aerosol transmission. The likelihood is that most were through respiratory droplets, however there is no proof of any individual case, so for anyone previously infected it could well have been through surface contact. There is no way to prove it wasn't.

The evidence is that surface transmission can occur, therefore it does occur at a low level. Just because transmission through respiratory droplets with face to face contact is the most likely, does not mean that other modes of transmission are impossible

DaSilva

Deleted User wrote: »

Seeping through the mask suggests droplets on the surface.

The truth is however, that no face mask is 100% effective. It just reduces risk. Being "in front of a contagious person" means the risk is substantial, therefore the likelyhood of transmission increases, irrespective of mask.

Now, none of what you have said in any way demonstrates that anyone of those cases was definitely aerosol transmission. The likelihood is that most were through respiratory droplets, however there is no proof of any individual case, so for anyone previously infected it could well have been through surface contact. There is no way to prove it wasn't.

The evidence is that surface transmission can occur, therefore it does occur at a low level. Just because transmission through respiratory droplets with face to face contact is the most likely, does not mean that other modes of transmission are impossible

The general idea I hear is that fomite transmission is thought to be low probability, but I haven't heard it ruled out as impossible. I'd be willing to bet the guy's absolute certainty that fomite transmission is impossible is politically motivated (re: China's weird explanations for virus origins). This same guy referred to "filthy" places the virus is currently spreading in. Something tells me this person's opinions are heavily influenced by "us and them" type thinking, I don't think you will have much success getting through to them.

Necro

Mod:

PTH2009's threadban lifted after discussion with poster

Eod100

Looks like India to be added to MHQ

https://twitter.com/MichealLehane/status/1385212111538774018

exitfee

exitfee wrote: »

48 of them have visors, aprons, gloves, masks on.

48 of them are not touching face, eyes etc with visors on

Virus can only have infected through respiratory infection through that gap between mask and visor

They had the UK strain, it's crazy contagious from my experience it has probably evolved to get past basic PPE.

How were the gown down and gown up procedures? how was disposal waste handled?
did any challenging patients result in risks necessary for the adequate care of patients having to be taken?
Did anyone bring anything into or out of the facility without full cleandown?
Did all of them contract it in the healthcare facility? If so how do you know?

And its evolved to get past basic PPE? :rolleyes:

Turtwig

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And its evolved to get past basic PPE? :rolleyes:

You may scoff all you like but just remember Magikarp evolves into Gyarados!

humberklog

Akesh wrote: »

Denmark probably didn't send untested people into nursing homes. In February we had over 1,500 deaths in nursing homes alone. This will be a major scandal when the dust settles as many residents and some staff lost their lives due to the incompetence of the HSE.

Well yeah that's their deaths. Throw in that 19% of Denmark is over 65 and that's only 13.4 in Ireland.

But I was more wondering about the living. Denmark is preparing to reopen. Pubs and restaurants have open now for outside service and football matches are going to let some sort of a crowd in.
Denmark now have an app that shows you've been tested recently and the government are recommending everyone to be tested 2 to 3 times a week.
Denmark have an average of about 700+ infections a week.

We've a lot less than that and so far we still have most retail closed and no plan of ré opening.

exitfee

exitfee wrote: »

I'm open to correction as much as anyone but I've yet to read about a case where a child got Covid from a shoe or from toy's as suggest here and I should have read it if fomite transmission is possible and even low probability.

It seems to me 99.999% of cases are spread by a person to a person via respitatory means, not spread by objects like shoes and toy's

It's more likely for aliens to land on the White House lawn today, than a Covid infected person grabbing a box of cornflakes and infecting another person with those cornflakes.

Your certainty is quite bizarre.

For any individual case we cannot know how the transmission occurred for certain. The vast majority of cases are through respiratory droplet transmission, however there is no way it 99.999%, and certainly nowhere near the level to be certain that a symptomatic child with a positive PCR test an no linked cases was more likely to have been a false negative than have had a non standard mode of transmission, which is the discussion that has driven us down this strange little segway.

arccosh

Deleted User wrote: »

Your certainty is quite bizarre.

For any individual case we cannot know how the transmission occurred for certain. The vast majority of cases are through respiratory droplet transmission, however there is no way it 99.999%, and certainly nowhere near the level to be certain that a symptomatic child with a positive PCR test an no linked cases was more likely to have been a false negative than have had a non standard mode of transmission, which is the discussion that has driven us down this strange little segway.

he was a vital eye witness in almost all transmissions

Martina1991

Deleted User wrote: »

How were the gown down and gown up procedures? how was disposal waste handled?
did any challenging patients result in risks necessary for the adequate care of patients having to be taken?
Did anyone bring anything into or out of the facility without full cleandown?
Did all of them contract it in the healthcare facility? If so how do you know?

And its evolved to get past basic PPE? :rolleyes:

What led to a lot of cases among HCW was tea and lunch breaks. Break rooms are small. People use the kettle, the microwave, the bin, the handles.

You can wear all the PPE and wash your hands 100 times. Everyone has to take it all off to eat and drink.

And that is when your at your most vulnerable to infection.

exitfee

exitfee wrote: »

If any of those situations were a possible means of fomite infection then everyone would be getting infected, it would be crazy, some people have worn the same masks for months, it's digusting, there are no biohazard disposal bins in any shop, people touch everything, I have seen people take down masks outside shops and eat a bag of tatoo's and put mask back on.

If it was fomite transmission, dirty people like humans would be screwed.

Low probability =/= never happens. In fact it means it definitely happens, at a low level

And the highlighted is the funniest unintentional piece of humour I think I have read.

exitfee

exitfee wrote: »

Look man it doesn't happen, believe fairytales if you wan't.

Not all people are humans

I stand corrected. This is the funniest

exitfee

exitfee wrote: »

You can't pick apart the rest, so.

Becareful with those shoe's, toy's and cornflakes

Might pick up Covid :pac:

You have been thoroughly and completely picked apart and are now just flailing wildly

FintanMcluskey

Eod100 wrote: »

Looks like India to be added to MHQ

https://twitter.com/MichealLehane/status/1385212111538774018

These guys are really proactive

exitfee

exitfee wrote: »

How?

You have no evidence of fomite transmission, none

Do you honestly believe your friends toddler got Covid from playing with Toy's in the creche or playing with someone's shoe?

Do you really believe that?

I never said they did. I said they don't know where it came from so it was a non standard transmission. Certainly was not evidence that it was a false positive, which is far far less likely.

Now one study is that the chance of transmission from contact with a contaminated surface could be as low 1 in 10,000. Rare eh. Feels it backs up your point? Except how many surfaces does the average person come in contact in any given day, and how many people have had this virus? When you consider the numbers it is a certainty that a small % of cases, but not an insubstantial number of people have contracted the virus through surface contamination

Lucas Hood

exitfee wrote: »

Look man it doesn't happen, believe fairytales if you wan't.

Not all people are humans

exitfee

exitfee wrote: »

You asked for people's opinions on how the toddler got infected and someone said it could have been from a shoe or an object via fomite infection.

In my opinion, for 100% the toddler did not get infected by a toy or a shoe or any object, I find the thought of it just ridiculous, 1 in 10,000 is not even close to it either to that kind of scenario, more like 1 in 100,000,000

For the virus to survive on that shoe or toy at room temperature and then for it not to soak through the material or slide off and then having the potential to infect a person from that tiny bit of shedded skin or saliva or whatever it was on that shoe or toy would be mind blowing.

Toddler was either close to an infected person or in a room an infected person had been or it's a false positive.

No object infection that's for sure.

See, thats not what you said.

And you seem to know more on the odds of surface transmission than the CDC.

Sweet.Science

Quick question as the portal for 60-64 year olds is due to open

If you've recently had covid can you request a vaccine ? I was told one month .

If you wait one month how do you get one ? Can you apply with other age cohorts even though you will be outside of that age bracket ?