Covid 19 Part XXXIV-249,437 ROI(4,906 deaths) 120,195 NI (2,145 deaths)(01/05)Read OP

PatrickDoherty

The crowds out that have turned the canals and Stephens Green into Electric Picnic this week have very short memories, 14 months into a pandemic and still dont get it, going on like everyone over 30 has had a vaccine.

Widdensushi

eagle eye wrote: »

It's amazing the amount of assumptions you put down there as certain facts and how you've moved up things I said.

Surely you could address the facts that are incorrect directly and avoid that situation?

WoollyRedHat

PatrickDoherty wrote: »

The crowds out that have turned the canals and Stephens Green into Electric Picnic this week have very short memories, 14 months into a pandemic and still dont get it, going on like everyone over 30 has had a vaccine.

It might be the right thing, but there's a limit, you have to at least give breadcrumbs.

RGS

eagle eye wrote: »

How many cases average did we have for the week.before we relaxed restrictions before Christmas?

This is not December. We are approaching summer warmer brighter longer days, outdoor activities are possible till late. We have vaccines we ddidnt have in December. We have vaccinated HCWS , we are getting the vulnerable vaccinated.
Hospital and ICU numbers are dropping.
It's a totally different place and we need to re act accordingly, but NPHET and Government appear to still drag out the worrymeter over case numbers.

Dickie10

i wouldnt mind seeing the over 60s vaxxed once anyway, all you really need now is one jab. dont think theres much to worry about after that, id let everything open. ok yu may have a few 40-60 die if unlucky or bad shape but its raw numbers we need to be worried about and shouldnt be anything to overwhelm the ICUs . thats what its all about. wouldnt worry about variants theres about 4000 of them and vaccines protect against all so far and will. shouldnt be a big deal if you get covid now or when over 60s are done. let it run through the rest.

Cork2021

I find this just depressing not just for me but all the hospitality businesses that’ll go to the wall over it! Front pages of the business post and Mail tomorrow! Holahan needs to wind his neck back in!

https://www.broadsheet.ie/

Wolf359f

Cork2021 wrote: »

I find this just depressing not just for me but all the hospitality businesses that’ll go to the wall over it! Front pages of the business post and Mail tomorrow! Holahan needs to wind his neck back in!

https://www.broadsheet.ie/

Can't read the text its too small. I tend to ignore headlines as they are the complete opposite of what the text/detail is.
Nice to see the business post saying Oil, gold and copper will never fall in value as long as you don't sell or live forever (or possibly the small print, as long as you don't sell for less than you purchased for). Don't think I'll take that advise though.

thebronze14

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

I think this weekend is going to have to be a turning point in terms of how we manage our response to this pandemic, people are fed up.

I listened to the radio this morning on RTE and one of the governmental politicians emphasized that you could
still only meet with only one more household and that we still need to be cautious and it's just another couple of weeks, which is now a parody phrase. The interviewer reminded them that people are meeting up outside en mass, with the one household rule being completely ignored but they kept on script, and ignoring reality.

A lot of people are bored of the script and actively ignoring it, time to get real, we need to adapt and be progressive with our approach or things will go south, new strategy is desperately needed.

Let's call a spade a spade, how many people are actually following the recommendations at this stage?...I'd say 95% of people I know have been meeting up with people inside and outside and meeting up with their families etc. I'm a teacher in Dublin and every other teacher working here that I know from outside Dublin went home for Easter like myself. Will be the same next weekend. We're back playing 5/6 a side in the park with our football teams and many other teams in the park doing the same thing. Very little risk and the benefits far outweigh the risks. People know what's risky and what's not at this stage and can make their own decision. Wouldn't be going to house parties or meeting up with large groups of friends and I think most my age (mid 30s) have the same outlook. My Mum is even up in Dublin visiting her new born granddaughter as she said what is the point of staying locked up anymore. Life is for living

hmmm

PatrickDoherty wrote: »

The crowds out that have turned the canals and Stephens Green into Electric Picnic this week have very short memories, 14 months into a pandemic and still dont get it, going on like everyone over 30 has had a vaccine.

We've moved on from curtain twitching at people gathering outside now, the risk is low and people know it. Not zero, but low. Time to move on, Covid is about to become yesterdays news as the vaccines become more widely deployed.

marno21

14 months in. The majority spent under glorified house arrest and some people are confused as to why young people are congregating outdoors when it’s sunny and warm.

Tony will have to take a hike on this one. Public health reasons currently forbid a pint at a table outside a pub yet there are thousands of people enjoying takeaway pints wandering around Cork today. I see little difference between today and the pubs opening for outdoor dining apart from the pub being responsible for cleaning up instead of the Council. I also recall Tony Holohan being a civil servant and not a member of Government making the final decision on how the country gets to live.

If the population are vaccinated; that’s it. People won’t take restrictions after that. We’ve done enough to reduce risk at a population level; beyond that it’s time to throw caution to the wind. We can’t live forever on this ridiculously heightened level of caution. We didn’t for flu and the population certainly won’t for Covid

Enough is enough now, complete the vaccination rollout and let whatever happens happen.

PatrickDoherty

marno21 wrote: »

14 months in. The majority spent under glorified house arrest and some people are confused as to why young people are congregating outdoors when it’s sunny and warm.

Tony will have to take a hike on this one. Public health reasons currently forbid a pint at a table outside a pub yet there are thousands of people enjoying takeaway pints wandering around Cork today. I see little difference between today and the pubs opening for outdoor dining apart from the pub being responsible for cleaning up instead of the Council. I also recall Tony Holohan being a civil servant and not a member of Government making the final decision on how the country gets to live.

If the population are vaccinated; that’s it. People won’t take restrictions after that. We’ve done enough to reduce risk at a population level; beyond that it’s time to throw caution to the wind. We can’t live forever on this ridiculously heightened level of caution. We didn’t for flu and the population certainly won’t for Covid

Enough is enough now, complete the vaccination rollout and let whatever happens happen.

hmmm wrote: »

We've moved on from curtain twitching at people gathering outside now, the risk is low and people know it. Not zero, but low. Time to move on, Covid is about to become yesterdays news as the vaccines become more widely deployed.

This enough is enough shout went well coming into December, for that meaningful Christmas.


There is bending the rules and there's taking the absolute mick with street parties, 2 weeks from now there will be a spike no doubt about it.


I've noticed the people who are saying enough is enough and end the lockdown are the ones who havent experienced Covid themselves or lost someone to it, nobody who has is advocating for guidelines to end and Holohan to do one.

Wolf359f

marno21 wrote: »

14 months in. The majority spent under glorified house arrest and some people are confused as to why young people are congregating outdoors when it’s sunny and warm.

Tony will have to take a hike on this one. Public health reasons currently forbid a pint at a table outside a pub yet there are thousands of people enjoying takeaway pints wandering around Cork today. I see little difference between today and the pubs opening for outdoor dining apart from the pub being responsible for cleaning up instead of the Council. I also recall Tony Holohan being a civil servant and not a member of Government making the final decision on how the country gets to live.

If the population are vaccinated; that’s it. People won’t take restrictions after that. We’ve done enough to reduce risk at a population level; beyond that it’s time to throw caution to the wind. We can’t live forever on this ridiculously heightened level of caution. We didn’t for flu and the population certainly won’t for Covid

Enough is enough now, complete the vaccination rollout and let whatever happens happen.

I take it you don't like Tony. For the umpteen time, NPHET advise and Government decide. If you asked you doctor if you should smoke and drink, they would advise against it. Does that mean they dictated and forced you to give up smoking and drinking?

You're falling into the trap that NPHET are the issue and not a spineless or scared **** Government.

Population is far from vaccinated, I'll bet even a smaller amount of the young people you've seen today are vaccinated.
Not that I don't agree with meeting outdoors, it's multiple times less risk, as long as they are not covid positive and don't want to miss a session, or have symptoms and don't want to get tested or passing around a joint or a drink etc...
Outdoors is much less risk as long as you still use common sense.
The problem with common sense is, it's not as common as you would expect.

thebronze14

thebronze14 wrote: »

Let's call a spade a spade, how many people are actually following the recommendations at this stage?...I'd say 95% of people I know have been meeting up with people inside and outside and meeting up with their families etc. I'm a teacher in Dublin and every other teacher working here that I know from outside Dublin went home for Easter like myself. Will be the same next weekend. We're back playing 5/6 a side in the park with our football teams and many other teams in the park doing the same thing. Very little risk and the benefits far outweigh the risks. People know what's risky and what's not at this stage and can make their own decision. Wouldn't be going to house parties or meeting up with large groups of friends and I think most my age (mid 30s) have the same outlook. My Mum is even up in Dublin visiting her new born granddaughter as she said what is the point of staying locked up anymore. Life is for living

I agree. Everyone I know is the same. And yet case numbers are steady. That is good news and NPHET would be better to acknowledge the reality of behaviour and the fact that numbers are not deteriorating on the back of it

marno21

Wolf359f wrote: »

I take it you don't like Tony. For the umpteen time, NPHET advise and Government decide. If you asked you doctor if you should smoke and drink, they would advise against it. Does that mean they dictated and forced you to give up smoking and drinking?

You're falling into the trap that NPHET are the issue and not a spineless or scared **** Government.

Population is far from vaccinated, I'll bet even a smaller amount of the young people you've seen today are vaccinated.
Not that I don't agree with meeting outdoors, it's multiple times less risk, as long as they are not covid positive and don't want to miss a session, or have symptoms and don't want to get tested or passing around a joint or a drink etc...
Outdoors is much less risk as long as you still use common sense.
The problem with common sense is, it's not as common as you would expect.

I have immense respect for Tony given what he has had to deal with in the last 12 months in addition to a very stressful and responsible job. He is not the issue here, is that he’s advising Government from a public health perspective and what he says is being rubber stamped and fed to the country. What he says needs to be combined with other perspectives and form a multi faceted response. This is not happening for whatever reason. Tony’s advise should be sent to the MoH, considered by Cabinet and then sent to the country. At the minute the Government are nowhere to be seen and it’s NPHET members briefing the country as if public health was the one issue the country should depend on. NPHET should not be the public facing spokespeople for this issue. But we are where we are.

I get your point. NPHET should advise and Government shouldn’t decide. But that’s not what’s happening. NPHET advise and Government rubber stamp because MM is scared that he’ll deviate like at Christmas, it’ll go wrong and he can’t blame Tony/Tony will tell him I told you so/he might actually have to take responsibility for something.

Population is far from vaccinated. But we are at the stage that the “stay at home” message is falling on deaf homes. People have stayed at home enough. They ARE going to meet up, regardless of the “rules”. Outdoors should be encouraged, not demonised.

PatrickDoherty

marno21 wrote: »

Population is far from vaccinated. But we are at the stage that the “stay at home” message is falling on deaf homes. People have stayed at home enough. They ARE going to meet up, regardless of the “rules”. Outdoors should be encouraged, not demonised.

Yeah don't know anyone demonizing people meeting outdoors, its the parties on the beach in Salthill or the Canals here along with Stephens Green, Nobody can condone these gatherings.

marno21

PatrickDoherty wrote: »

Yeah don't know anyone demonizing people meeting outdoors, its the parties on the beach in Salthill or the Canals here along with Stephens Green, Nobody can condone these gatherings.

These aren’t really parties from what I can see. They are large groups gathering in smaller bubbles but they are outdoors. It’s not 1000 people mixing together, it’s 200 groups of 5 people mixing together. There is very little risk in these outdoor, well ventilated settings.

Here in Cork, there are only a handful of places for these to occur. Because of the lack of places to go, the few available will be packed. They were packed last summer too and it didn’t cause any outbreaks.

It’s mountain out of molehill stuff. Continue to demonise these kind of events and people will move to gardens or indoors.

Widdensushi

PatrickDoherty wrote: »

Yeah don't know anyone demonizing people meeting outdoors, its the parties on the beach in Salthill or the Canals here along with Stephens Green, Nobody can condone these gatherings.

Why not, if you obviously know that the chances of covid being transferred in these exchanges is negligible so why can you not condone it, by parties you mean people meeting?

Amount of crap flying about whatsapp groups and social media “those teenagers are the reason I can’t see my granny etc”. When did we (some people) become so hysterical? If you can’t calculate your own risk..

If these people castigating kids and teenagers succeed and get what they want, they’ll push all these bored 15-30 year olds back into packed apartments and houses for parties. And then they’ll get outraged again at their cheek to try and live some form of life.

Something has to give. 12 weeks into level 5 lockdown after a 3 week break and the message being sent is basically still ‘stay at home’. Unless you go to school, play county gaa or play golf. We’re not asking for packed bars, restaurants and 60,000 capacity stadia - the Christmas line keeps being churned out in response, that’s not what people are asking for. They want something, something to keep us going. The weather is nice, a year on you can’t keep asking people to ration their contacts, it’s not viable with human life.

To add to the above - 2 local football teams in my area arranged some form of match in my local park today, I’d say all age groups covered between 18-50. Asked to move on by the gardai and stop the match.

I just don’t get it.

PatrickDoherty

Deleted User wrote: »

not viable with human life.

Either is letting a virus like Covid rip through us either, there is no witch hunt going on or curtain twitching everyone can do what they like but personally would rather these scenes were delayed a few weeks into summer when more people are vaccinated.

PatrickDoherty

PatrickDoherty wrote: »

Either is letting a virus like Covid rip through us either, there is no witch hunt going on or curtain twitching everyone can do what they like but personally would rather these scenes were delayed a few weeks into summer when more people are vaccinated.

Delayed? And what instead? Stay at home and hold firm and wash our hands? Surely we can find a middle ground between everything closed and everything open. If we accept outdoor drinking is happening, why not try to formalise it, disperse it and bring some element of control to it?

Deeper Blue

Why do people keep bringing up the easing of restrictions before Christmas?

Nobody was vaccinated then and people couldn't congregate outdoors.

It's completely different now and the situations can't be compared. Pure strawman argument.

Wolf359f

marno21 wrote: »

I have immense respect for Tony given what he has had to deal with in the last 12 months in addition to a very stressful and responsible job. He is not the issue here, is that he’s advising Government from a public health perspective and what he says is being rubber stamped and fed to the country. What he says needs to be combined with other perspectives and form a multi faceted response. This is not happening for whatever reason. Tony’s advise should be sent to the MoH, considered by Cabinet and then sent to the country. At the minute the Government are nowhere to be seen and it’s NPHET members briefing the country as if public health was the one issue the country should depend on. NPHET should not be the public facing spokespeople for this issue. But we are where we are.

I get your point. NPHET should advise and Government shouldn’t decide. But that’s not what’s happening. NPHET advise and Government rubber stamp because MM is scared that he’ll deviate like at Christmas, it’ll go wrong and he can’t blame Tony/Tony will tell him I told you so/he might actually have to take responsibility for something.

Population is far from vaccinated. But we are at the stage that the “stay at home” message is falling on deaf homes. People have stayed at home enough. They ARE going to meet up, regardless of the “rules”. Outdoors should be encouraged, not demonised.

You mentioned Tony twice and Government once (in relation to Tony not being a member of Government)
He's a great fall guy, so is NPHET. Now you're changing tune in your second post and it's all about Government this and MM that etc...

So is your issue with Tony, NPHET ot the Government and MM?

Yes that dictator Glynn from the NPHET party(National Party of Honor the Esteemed Tony) had the cheek to say a week or so ago that if you are going to meet up, please do so outdoors. /s
Joking aside, Ronan Glynn, did mention if people where to meet up, to please do so outdoors. He wasn't criticizing or demonizing people meeting up outdoors. He understood we're all human.

Wolf359f

Deeper Blue wrote: »

Why do people keep bringing up the easing of restrictions before Christmas?

Nobody was vaccinated then and people couldn't congregate outdoors.

It's completely different now and the situations can't be compared. Pure strawman argument.

Why couldn't people congregate outdoors at Christmas?
Indoor dining was allowed, I remember that, was outdoor dining banned?
Or was outdoor groups meeting not allowed but indoor was?

PatrickDoherty

Deeper Blue wrote: »

Why do people keep bringing up the easing of restrictions before Christmas?

Nobody was vaccinated then and people couldn't congregate outdoors.

It's completely different now and the situations can't be compared. Pure strawman argument.

Nobody is really vaccinated now lets be real, my 79 year old granny was only done during the week, its as good as nobody.

marno21

Wolf359f wrote: »

You mentioned Tony twice and Government once (in relation to Tony not being a member of Government)
He's a great fall guy, so is NPHET. Now you're changing tune in your second post and it's all about Government this and MM that etc...

So is your issue with Tony, NPHET ot the Government and MM?

Yes that dictator Glynn from the NPHET party(National Party of Honor the Esteemed Tony) had the cheek to say a week or so ago that if you are going to meet up, please do so outdoors. /s
Joking aside, Ronan Glynn, did mention if people where to meet up, to please do so outdoors. He wasn't criticizing or demonizing people meeting up outdoors. He understood we're all human.

Tony should issue public health advise to Government. Government should consider public health advice, along with a number of other factors, and issue guidance to the population accordingly.

Tony (and NPHET) should be advisors only and not communicating directly to the country. That’s the Governments job. The population should only be seeing what the Government decides post NPHET briefing bar those who would like to see NPHETs letters buried on the DoH website.

The people of Ireland should not be seeing in the Daily Mail tomorrow that pubs won’t be reopening for indoor dining because the CMO said so. Why should he have the final say? Why are we hearing this from the Mail? Why aren’t the numerous other facets behind this decision being considered?

I don’t have a problem with Tony doing his job. I have a problem with the Government not doing theirs and leaving NPHET advice be the sole focus of the response in this country. Tony should be briefing Government, not the country. Government has a duty to see beyond the advise of the CMO and they are not doing this.

Edit: front page of the Times tomorrow tells us we’ve nearly blown the entire load of 2021 Covid budget already. In May. A budget assuming there would be no vaccine. This Uber conservative response comes with significant costs too let’s not forget.

Deeper Blue

Wolf359f wrote: »

Why couldn't people congregate outdoors at Christmas?
Indoor dining was allowed, I remember that, was outdoor dining banned?
Or was outdoor groups meeting not allowed but indoor was?

I assume they were allowed but I was more referring to the weather and dark evenings

Deeper Blue

PatrickDoherty wrote: »

Nobody is really vaccinated now lets be real, my 79 year old granny was only done during the week, its as good as nobody.

Rubbish. The majority of over 70s are vaccinated.

PatrickDoherty

Deeper Blue wrote: »

Rubbish. The majority of over 70s are vaccinated.

Just a virus that effects over 70s, funny because a co worker of mine died 3 weeks ago aged mid 50s with no underlying condition, must of been the one unlucky under 70 person in the country to get covid and die.

Deeper Blue

PatrickDoherty wrote: »

Just a virus that effects over 70s, funny because a co worker of mine died 3 weeks ago aged mid 50s with no underlying condition, must of been the one unlucky under 70 person in the country to get covid and die.

Where did I say it only affected over 70s?