Covid 19 Part XXXIV-249,437 ROI(4,906 deaths) 120,195 NI (2,145 deaths)(01/05)Read OP

seamus

In terms of the cost, the easiest solution is probably to just have a midi skip at every entrance to a park and signs up asking people to use them. Have a skip company on a retainer dropping an empty skip every day from now till the end of August. Same at Portobello and other very public meeting spots; someone in DCC whose job it is to watch the weather and ensure a skip is dropped at the site at the start of the day.

Not sure fly-tipping would be a massive issue if they were swapped out daily and you had wardens keeping an eye.

Expanding bin capacity for a temporary issue or cracking down with fines don't seem like proper solutions, IMHO. You'd think people would bring their rubbish home, but you're pissing in the wind begging people to do it.

normanoffside

normanoffside wrote: »

Antigen tests only have a higher false negative rate when they use a PCR to 'validate' it.
The fact is that Antigen pick up active and infectious virus whereas PCR pick up inactive and deceased virus particles as well as live ones.

So maybe we are going about it the wrong way (PCR as Gold standard, everything else to be measured against it.).

In any case using Antigen testing could be more successful at picking up cases given that you get quick results and can repeat the tests frequently at a lesser cost and time delay than a single PCR taken infrequently.

Our authorities don't want to use them because they are primarily a tol to enable reopening of things and they want everything to remain closed.

Great to see this nonsense migrating from the restrictions thread

Gael23

Gael23 wrote: »

For many families children, Grandchildren and any living siblings amounts to more than 10 people.

The limit is now 25

KanyeSouthEast

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The limit is now 25

That’s so nice of our leaders to allow 25 at a funeral we should be so grateful.......

What a time to be Irish

KanyeSouthEast

KanyeSouthEast wrote: »

That’s so nice of our leaders to allow 25 at a funeral we should be so grateful.......

What a time to be Irish

I think it’s only 30 in the UK and they are much further advanced

MrMusician18

seamus wrote: »

In terms of the cost, the easiest solution is probably to just have a midi skip at every entrance to a park and signs up asking people to use them. Have a skip company on a retainer dropping an empty skip every day from now till the end of August. Same at Portobello and other very public meeting spots; someone in DCC whose job it is to watch the weather and ensure a skip is dropped at the site at the start of the day.

Not sure fly-tipping would be a massive issue if they were swapped out daily and you had wardens keeping an eye.

Expanding bin capacity for a temporary issue or cracking down with fines don't seem like proper solutions, IMHO. You'd think people would bring their rubbish home, but you're pissing in the wind begging people to do it.

Lol, such naivety. Any unattended public bin will end up with someone else's household waste in it in short order, and a skip is literally inviting it. I've seen it on the street, on my workplace and in every apartment block I've lived in: non residents coming in to dump in communal bins.

A second problem with skips is that they need to be covered to keep gulls out of them.

An absolute crackdown on this is needed. What I find most galling about this is that is largely (though to be fair, not entirely) teenagers and young adults at this. The very same cohort lecturing the rest of us on the environment.

MrMusician18

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Lol, such naivety. Any unattended public bin will end up with someone else's household waste in it in short order, and a skip is literally inviting it. I've seen it on the street, on my workplace and in every apartment block I've lived in: non residents coming in to dump in communal bins.

A second problem with skips is that they need to be covered to keep gulls out of them.

An absolute crackdown on this is needed. What I find most galling about this is that is largely (though to be fair, not entirely) teenagers and young adults at this. The very same cohort lecturing the rest of us on the environment.

Agree completely. Like building an extra lane on the M50, it doesn’t improve anything.....it just increases the amount of trash

It’s not ideal, but the solution needs to be a dual approach of enforcement and additional street / park cleaners to tidy up after

Ficheall

is_that_so wrote: »

Similar comments were posted last May, June, July and even August. Nothing happened.

Aye, and with quite a few people scoffing at the idea of a second wave..

KanyeSouthEast

KanyeSouthEast wrote: »

That’s so nice of our leaders to allow 25 at a funeral we should be so grateful.......

What a time to be Irish

Its amazing how simple statements without comment to correct a clear factual error can be met with outright sarcasm

bikeman1

Maybe we could solve all of these problems with bins and toilets by immediately from next Monday (or Tuesday because Covid knows it is a BH) allow all business to reopen to outside service. Safe controlled operation of their businesses. Cleaning outside their premises, providing toilets and generating much needed tax for the State. The amount of unnecessary waste from these takeaways is such a shame, sending us back years in waste management.

Then enforce the well intended by-laws in each county for public drinking. It is happening anyway, so I fail to see the reason with allowing it from a Covid prevention point of view. We should start our "Summer outdoors" now. 1 in 4 vaccinated, lets go.

podgeandrodge

Hurrache wrote: »

Scumbags are going to be scumbags. A full thread of the mess assholes left behind them. And don't give me the nonsense that the bins were full/not enough of them and so on.

https://twitter.com/GeogheganCllr/status/1386254605017878531

seamus wrote: »

In terms of the cost, the easiest solution is probably to just have a midi skip at every entrance to a park and signs up asking people to use them. Have a skip company on a retainer dropping an empty skip every day from now till the end of August. Same at Portobello and other very public meeting spots; someone in DCC whose job it is to watch the weather and ensure a skip is dropped at the site at the start of the day.

Not sure fly-tipping would be a massive issue if they were swapped out daily and you had wardens keeping an eye.

Expanding bin capacity for a temporary issue or cracking down with fines don't seem like proper solutions, IMHO. You'd think people would bring their rubbish home, but you're pissing in the wind begging people to do it.

Take some high res photos of these areas at the beginning of the evenings when the groups have found their spots. Take a couple before they leave to show it's the same prats sitting in each area.

Publicly shame them afterwards when they leave their crap behind

MrMusician18 wrote: »

...An absolute crackdown on this is needed. What I find most galling about this is that is largely (though to be fair, not entirely) teenagers and young adults at this. The very same cohort lecturing the rest of us on the environment.

It is largely teenages and young adults. I hate to sound like an old fogey, but when I was that age, I simply wouldn't have left my beer cans and bottles behind me. And I had plenty of occasions to do such drinking! WTF is wrong with these people that they think it's fine to simply stand up and leave that crap behind.

Martina1991

normanoffside wrote: »

Antigen tests only have a higher false negative rate when they use a PCR to 'validate' it.
The fact is that Antigen pick up active and infectious virus whereas PCR pick up inactive and deceased virus particles as well as live ones.

So maybe we are going about it the wrong way (PCR as Gold standard, everything else to be measured against it.).

In any case using Antigen testing could be more successful at picking up cases given that you get quick results and can repeat the tests frequently at a lesser cost and time delay than a single PCR taken infrequently.

Our authorities don't want to use them because they are primarily a tol to enable reopening of things and they want everything to remain closed.

Antigen tests are made and designed for use in very specific settings for symptomatic people.

People want them to be used in schools, sports venues, pubs etc and that is not what they should be used for.
In the Britain they use the Innova lateral flow tests. They’ve spent nearly 2 billion on them.
Here are the instructions for use that come with the tests https://cdn.website-editor.net/6f54caea7c6f4adfba8399428f3c0b0c/files/uploaded/Innova-SARS-Cov-2-Antigen-test-IFU.pdf

Here are some extracts from it.
"Intended use
The SARS-CoV-2 Antigen Rapid Qualitative Test is a colloidal gold immunochromatography intended for the qualitative detection of nucleocapsid antigens from SARS-CoV-2 in human nasal swabs or throat swabs from individuals who are suspected of COVID-19 by their healthcare provider within the first five days of the onset of symptoms.

Positive results indicate the presence of viral antigens, but clinical correlation with patient history and other diagnostic information is necessary to determine infection status. Positive results do not rule out bacterial infection or co-infection with other viruses. The agent detected may not be the definite cause of disease.

Negative results do not rule out SARS-CoV-2 infection and should not be used as the sole basis for treatment or patient management decisions, including infection control decisions. Negative results should be considered in the context of a patient’s recent exposures, history and the presence of clinical signs and symptoms consistent with COVID-19, and confirmed with a molecular assay, if necessary for patient management.

The SARS-CoV-2 Antigen Rapid Qualitative Test is intended for use by trained clinical laboratory personnel specifically instructed and trained in the techniques of in vitro diagnostic procedures, and proper infection control procedures and individuals similarly trained in point of care settings.

Limitations of procedure
* Clinical performance was evaluated with frozen samples, and test
performance may be different with fresh samples.

* A false-negative test result may occur if the level of viral antigen in a sample is below the detection limit of the test or if the sample was collected or transported improperly; therefore, a negative test result does not eliminate the possibility of SARS-CoV-2 infection.

* The kits for rapid detection of SARS-Cov-2 can detect both viable and non-viable SARSCoV-2 material. The SARS-CoV-2 Antigen Rapid Qualitative Test for rapid detection of SARS-CoV-2 performance depends on antigen load and may not correlate with other diagnostic methods performed on the same specimen.

* The performance of this test has not been evaluated for use in patients without signs and symptoms of respiratory infection and performance may differ in asymptomatic individuals."

Also, with any test, controls should be performed before use to ensure the test is actually working; a positive and a negative. These are sold separately, so people likely do not bother acquiring them or performing them before they perform a test on themselves, making any result invalid.


TLDR

This Innova rapid LFT test was specifically made and intended for use by trained professionals on symptomatic people. To use it any other way is using it completely inaccurately.

Yet it is used on asymptomatic people, swabbing themselves and children without even controlling the test to check if it works. None of these results can be relied upon, because the device is not being used the way it was intended.

Derek Zoolander

Martina1991 wrote: »

Antigen tests are made and designed for use in very specific settings for symptomatic people.

People want them to be used in schools, sports venues, pubs etc and that is not what they should be used for.
In the Britain they use the Innova lateral flow tests. They’ve spent nearly 2 billion on them.
Here are the instructions for use that come with the tests https://cdn.website-editor.net/6f54caea7c6f4adfba8399428f3c0b0c/files/uploaded/Innova-SARS-Cov-2-Antigen-test-IFU.pdf

Here are some extracts from it.
"Intended use
The SARS-CoV-2 Antigen Rapid Qualitative Test is a colloidal gold immunochromatography intended for the qualitative detection of nucleocapsid antigens from SARS-CoV-2 in human nasal swabs or throat swabs from individuals who are suspected of COVID-19 by their healthcare provider within the first five days of the onset of symptoms.

Positive results indicate the presence of viral antigens, but clinical correlation with patient history and other diagnostic information is necessary to determine infection status. Positive results do not rule out bacterial infection or co-infection with other viruses. The agent detected may not be the definite cause of disease.

Negative results do not rule out SARS-CoV-2 infection and should not be used as the sole basis for treatment or patient management decisions, including infection control decisions. Negative results should be considered in the context of a patient’s recent exposures, history and the presence of clinical signs and symptoms consistent with COVID-19, and confirmed with a molecular assay, if necessary for patient management.

The SARS-CoV-2 Antigen Rapid Qualitative Test is intended for use by trained clinical laboratory personnel specifically instructed and trained in the techniques of in vitro diagnostic procedures, and proper infection control procedures and individuals similarly trained in point of care settings.

Limitations of procedure
* Clinical performance was evaluated with frozen samples, and test
performance may be different with fresh samples.

* A false-negative test result may occur if the level of viral antigen in a sample is below the detection limit of the test or if the sample was collected or transported improperly; therefore, a negative test result does not eliminate the possibility of SARS-CoV-2 infection.

* The kits for rapid detection of SARS-Cov-2 can detect both viable and non-viable SARSCoV-2 material. The SARS-CoV-2 Antigen Rapid Qualitative Test for rapid detection of SARS-CoV-2 performance depends on antigen load and may not correlate with other diagnostic methods performed on the same specimen.

* The performance of this test has not been evaluated for use in patients without signs and symptoms of respiratory infection and performance may differ in asymptomatic individuals."

Also, with any test, controls should be performed before use to ensure the test is actually working; a positive and a negative. These are sold separately, so people likely do not bother acquiring them or performing them before they perform a test on themselves, making any result invalid.


TLDR

This Innova rapid LFT test was specifically made and intended for use by trained professionals on symptomatic people. To use it any other way is using it completely inaccurately.

Yet it is used on asymptomatic people, swabbing themselves and children without even controlling the test to check if it works. None of these results can be relied upon, because the device is not being used the way it was intended.

Yet all data is that it has been very successful in its usage in the UK as an additional form of testing that can potentially identify cases that otherwise wouldn't be identified in environments where social distancing is not possible...

I believe it was Mike Ryan that said don't let perfect get in the way of good - we've completely missed a trick in not throwing money at antigen testing in addition to PCR..

is_that_so

Ficheall wrote: »

Aye, and with quite a few people scoffing at the idea of a second wave..

Sure, but it actually took months to arrive. Very few if any group out in the sun are a disease risk, it's actually far more likely the people not out in the sun are.


There was an awful lot of alarm when the Brits hit the beaches in large numbers, last summer. Once again nothing happened, despite the strident doom-laden prognostications.

funnydoggy

Tommy, Hector and Laurita have been using https://covisal.ie/ rapid tests before starting each podcast. They've been doing a 1hr podcast once a week since September 2020 in a shed out Tommy Tiernan's back garden, and they've all been fine so far.

Lucas Hood

https://twitter.com/COVID19DataIE/status/1386683491530719232?s=19

stephenjmcd

Sunday Swabs: 462 positive swabs, 2.92% positivity on 15,829 tests

Monday Swabs : 380 positive swabs, 2.96% positivity on 12,839 tests.
7 day test positivity is 2.8%.

Compared to last week

Sunday: 397 positive swabs, 2.74% positivity on 14,491 tests

Monday: 364 positive swabs, 3.04% positivity on 11,962 tests.

Martina1991

Derek Zoolander wrote: »

Yet all data is that it has been very successful in its usage in the UK as an additional form of testing that can potentially identify cases that otherwise wouldn't be identified in environments where social distancing is not possible...

I believe it was Mike Ryan that said don't let perfect get in the way of good - we've completely missed a trick in not throwing money at antigen testing in addition to PCR..

You can't assume it has been a success when they are using them in settings it is not intended to be used for.

You can't rely on the results when the product is being used incorrectly for a different purpose than what it was intended.

Has it actually been that successful enough to warrant the 1.7 billion pounds they've spent on it. We're in enough debt without throwing more money at something that is unreliable.

It reminds me of the The Simpsons when Homer wanted to buy a rock from Lisa because she theorized it kept tigers away.
People think antigen testing will keep cases down and open up society. It won't.

Vaccinations are what has been hugely successful for the UK and is what will get us out of this a lot quicker.

eigrod

The positivity rate has been incredibly consistent between 2.5% and 3% for 3 weeks now.

stephenjmcd

eigrod wrote: »

The positivity rate has been incredibly consistent between 2.5% and 3% for 3 weeks now.

Yeah it's pretty steady regardless of how many tests are being carried out.

Doctor Jimbob

eigrod wrote: »

The positivity rate has been incredibly consistent between 2.5% and 3% for 3 weeks now.

Which is a good thing when you consider we've been opening more over those few weeks. There's no big jump associated with either Easter or the schools reopening - which is nice.

titan18

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Sunday Swabs: 462 positive swabs, 2.92% positivity on 15,829 tests

Monday Swabs : 380 positive swabs, 2.96% positivity on 12,839 tests.
7 day test positivity is 2.8%.

Compared to last week

Sunday: 397 positive swabs, 2.74% positivity on 14,491 tests

Monday: 364 positive swabs, 3.04% positivity on 11,962 tests.

Looks like a slight increase in positivity but not a huge amount.

Derek Zoolander

Martina1991 wrote: »

You can't assume it has been a success when they are using them in settings it is not intended to be used for.

You can't rely on the results when the product is being used incorrectly for a different purpose than what it was intended.

Has it actually been that successful enough to warrant the 1.7 billion pounds they've spent on it. We're in enough debt without throwing more money at something that is unreliable.

It reminds me of the The Simpsons when Homer wanted to buy a rock from Lisa because she theorized it kept tigers away.
People think antigen testing will keep cases down and open up society. It won't.

Vaccinations are what has been hugely successful for the UK and is what will get us out of this a lot quicker.

I'm going by what one of their members of SAGE is saying.... there are numerous articles on the relative success - we're 12 time less populous so we'd spend 150M on them - not a massive amount

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/apr/19/lateral-flow-tests-uk-covid

Martina1991

Derek Zoolander wrote: »

I'm going by what one of their members of SAGE is saying.... there are numerous articles on the relative success - we're 12 time less populous so we'd spend 150M on them - not a massive amount

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/apr/19/lateral-flow-tests-uk-covid

I wouldn't really trust the positive spin the British government put on them since they spent a fortune on them.

Here's another article from the Guardian saying something different.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/25/uk-health-regulator-concerned-over-use-of-coronavirus-rapid-tests?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
" The UK’s healthcare regulator has expressed concern to the government that its multibillion-pound mass testing programme is “a stretch” of the authorised use of rapid tests.

The Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) has approved the lateral flow devices to be used to find coronavirus cases but not to act as a “green light” for people who test negative to enjoy greater freedoms.

There is very little data to show how well the Innova lateral flow devices detect the virus when used as a self-test by someone who has no symptoms. They are being used by millions of people a week in England under the government’s universal testing programme.

The MHRA told officials in the Department of Health and Social Care (DHSC) that the twice-weekly testing regime unveiled earlier this month was “a stretch” of its authorisation for how the tests should be used.



They are not suitable for mass testing because that is not what they were made for. They should not be used on people who are asymptomatic.
https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4469
https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n823
https://thetab.com/uk/2020/12/21/covid-tests-used-on-students-ahead-of-christmas-only-detected-three-per-cent-of-cases-187231

manofwisdom

Monday 19th of April to Sunday 25th.

Cases 3,135
Tests carried out 117,308

Monday 12th of April to Sunday 18th

Cases 2,601
Tests carried out 102,276

Michael Martin said yesterday

'there's a view that the spike in weekly cases may have been a blip related to higher testing'

timsey tiger

manofwisdom wrote: »

Monday 19th of April to Sunday 25th.

Cases 3,135
Tests carried out 117,308

Monday 12th of April to Sunday 18th

Cases 2,601
Tests carried out 102,276

Michael Martin said yesterday

'there's a view that the spike in weekly cases may have been a blip related to higher testing'

Nearly fell off my chair, I thought that was 3,135 cases today :eek:

seamus

manofwisdom wrote: »

Monday 19th of April to Sunday 25th.

Cases 3,135
Tests carried out 117,308

Monday 12th of April to Sunday 18th

Cases 2,601
Tests carried out 102,276

Michael Martin said yesterday

'there's a view that the spike in weekly cases may have been a blip related to higher testing'

Positivity rate in the "extra" tests is about 3.5%. 534 extra positives in 15,032 extra swabs.

So he's probably right. There isn't enough in that to say there's been any appreciable jump in positives.

Working class heroes

manofwisdom wrote: »

Monday 19th of April to Sunday 25th.

Cases 3,135
Tests carried out 117,308

Monday 12th of April to Sunday 18th

Cases 2,601
Tests carried out 102,276

Michael Martin said yesterday

'there's a view that the spike in weekly cases may have been a blip related to higher testing'

Last week a positive case for every 37 swabs, the week before it was one case for every 39 swabs. Much of a much really.

giveitholly

I know it's a Monday and could be under reporting after the weekend but Israel reporting only 60 cases today and 0 deaths

caveat emptor

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Lol, such naivety. Any unattended public bin will end up with someone else's household waste in it in short order, and a skip is literally inviting it. I've seen it on the street, on my workplace and in every apartment block I've lived in: non residents coming in to dump in communal bins.

A second problem with skips is that they need to be covered to keep gulls out of them.

An absolute crackdown on this is needed. What I find most galling about this is that is largely (though to be fair, not entirely) teenagers and young adults at this. The very same cohort lecturing the rest of us on the environment.

Yeah this problem is almost as complicated as the border.

Provide more bins.
More people will use them for their household waste.

Is it time to nationalise rubbish again?