Covid 19 Part XXXIV-249,437 ROI(4,906 deaths) 120,195 NI (2,145 deaths)(01/05)Read OP

DellyBelly

batman_oh wrote: »

But if we relax a few restrictions we'll end up exactly like India because every aspect of Ireland is identical I hear.
#HOLDFIRM

I don't think that is the case but does show what can happen if restrictions are lifted here to early...we saw what happened after Christmas

Doctor Jimbob

Stheno wrote: »

THink MIcheal's been abducted by aliens!

https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1387034029325643778?s=20

"Outdoors is much safer than indoors", says man in a senior position in the government which is keeping outdoor hospitality closed.

I think Varadkar speaks a lot more sense than Martin when it comes to this kind of stuff but he'd want to start acting on what he has to say.

pauldry

Stheno wrote: »

THink MIcheal's been abducted by aliens!

https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1387034029325643778?s=20

Think he was eaten by a Lion at the zoo yesterday

Doctor Jimbob

DellyBelly wrote: »

I don't think that is the case but does show what can happen if restrictions are lifted here to early...we saw what happened after Christmas

Relevant comparisons to our current situation: Christmas, India, Brazil, any country doing badly.

Irrelevant comparisons to our current situation: Last summer, UK, US, Israel, any country doing well.

This message was brought to you by the hysteric's guide to covid discussion.

Turtwig

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Relevant comparisons to our current situation: Christmas, India, Brazil, any country doing badly.

Irrelevant comparisons to our current situation: Last summer, UK, US, Israel, any country doing well.

This message was brought to you by the hysteric's guide to covid discussion.

Meh both comparisons can be valid just depends on the mode of comparison chosen. If that's not's reasonable and proportionate then it's a pointless comparison.

Eod100

titan18 wrote: »

Or that they open up outdoor hospitality then.

That will happen in time anyway but dont see it happening before end of next month say.

Doctor Jimbob

Turtwig wrote: »

Meh both comparisons can be valid just depends on the mode of comparison chosen. If that's not's reasonable and proportionate then it's a pointless comparison.

Both can be valid, but "remember Christmas" and "look at India" are both being used as a kind of trump card without any consideration whatsoever of the context. It's the flip side of the "Sweden didn't lockdown and they're grand" stuff that was being thrown about last year and should be treated with the same disdain.

titan18

Eod100 wrote: »

That will happen in time anyway but dont see it happening before end of next month say.

True but maybe Leo should shut up if he's not going to back up what he's saying. If it's safe to drink in a field with others, it's safe to drink outside a bar or restaurant with others.

Chris_5339762

Champagne Sally wrote: »

Just wondered posters thoughts on this. My sisters company have been WFH since March 2020 and will continue with this policy until it's safe to go back to the office. Great. But, the manager recently has organised an outdoor team building event in early May with 12 employees, albeit, outdoors with food delivered etc etc.

Now we were wondering if the manager is not opening himself up for litigation if anyone of the employee's gets sick from this event. Like we know and understand it's probably very safe but there is that niggling doubt that this is against current restriction rules and as it's a Government Organisation it might be a rather fool hardy decision.

Are we over thinking it?

I'd say it'll be fine... have some been vaccinated already and all that.


But as its a Government Organisation, its very bad optics.

stephenjmcd

395 positive swabs, 2.59% positivity on 15,273 tests.
7 day test positivity is 2.8%.


Last Tuesday

399 positive swabs, 2.65% positivity on 15,051 tests

Turtwig

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Both can be valid, but "remember Christmas" and "look at India" are both being used as a kind of trump card without any consideration whatsoever of the context. It's the flip side of the "Sweden didn't lockdown and they're grand" stuff that was being thrown about last year and should be treated with the same disdain.

Largely agree to a point. I do actually think the best comparisons to make are one's within Ireland themselves. Be that last summer, Christmas or any other time period and location. What's changed in the profile of disease, vaccination, social contacts etc? Once you go outside Ireland you have to start adjusting for so many other factors before you can be confident you're comparing like with like. Not that we should just limit ourselves to Ireland. Just that we have to be more careful and prudent when using foreign comparisons.

marno21

stephenjmcd wrote: »

395 positive swabs, 2.59% positivity on 15,273 tests.
7 day test positivity is 2.8%.


Last Tuesday

399 positive swabs, 2.65% positivity on 15,051 tests

212 extra swabs giving 4 less tests.

A very minor improvement but a welcome one

seamus

Deleted User wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0427/1212375-joe-walsh-tours/


Joe Walsh Tours has collapsed, all jobs gone, with immediate effect. Well done Ireland.
Aer Lingus to announce job losses this Winter in the number of approx 900.

We are going back into the dark ages in terms of travel and connectivity. Shameful.

Do you have an alternative? Should we have just opened up? Flights from everywhere to everywhere? No quarantine?

Travel virtually collapsed last year when there were no real restrictions on travel. It's more than ridiculous to suggest that a system of quarantine that was introduced six weeks ago suddenly caused the company to collapse.

Reading the context, it was the failure of suppliers to refund payments and refusal of insurance companies to cover costs that ultimately led to this.

Many other companies are treading water with zero business. JWT were obviously stuck in a more difficult position.

Eod100

titan18 wrote: »

True but maybe Leo should shut up if he's not going to back up what he's saying. If it's safe to drink in a field with others, it's safe to drink outside a bar or restaurant with others.

Not necessarily. Workers would still have to work indoors in kitchen, bar etc to serve the people outside.

TheDoctor

stephenjmcd wrote: »

395 positive swabs, 2.59% positivity on 15,273 tests.
7 day test positivity is 2.8%.


Last Tuesday

399 positive swabs, 2.65% positivity on 15,051 tests

Felt like we had a bit of a backlog building late last week, has that been cleared?

timmyntc

seamus wrote: »

Do you have an alternative? Should we have just opened up? Flights from everywhere to everywhere? No quarantine?

Travel virtually collapsed last year when there were no real restrictions on travel. It's more than ridiculous to suggest that a system of quarantine that was introduced six weeks ago suddenly caused the company to collapse.

Reading the context, it was the failure of suppliers to refund payments and refusal of insurance companies to cover costs that ultimately led to this.

Many other companies are treading water with zero business. JWT were obviously stuck in a more difficult position.

Our restrictions on international travel and holidays outside Ireland for the rest of this year obviously played a significant role in JW Tours opting to cease trading. International holidays are back in play for most of EU this summer - but not Ireland. This is the price we pay

kleiner feigling

kleiner feigling wrote: »

I do agree with you there, which is why I deliberately disregarded the cases numbers there.
Deaths are a little more concrete, but again, their reporting may be weak.
That said, even if the death toll were 10x the given figures, the situation there is comparable with many other countries.
The big difference is the poverty, endemic diabetes (a comorbidity of covid), and poor access to hospitals and medical supplies in India.
If deaths do climb significantly, those will be the key contributors.

Just had a senior management briefing on the India situation. We have offices in Mumbai and Hyderabad, with approx 10000 employees and there is serious concern about their ability to support the organisation.

15-20% of employees are off at any one time due to their own illness or support of a seriously ill close relative. It is an insane number to have off on a rolling basis.

I know from those who I deal with that many have gone back to the rural regions that they are from to support ailing relatives

The numbers being presented in India are a fraction of the total, both deaths and cases. I hadn’t appreciated until I heard directly from Mumbai management today how serious it is down there

seamus

timmyntc wrote: »

Our restrictions on international travel and holidays outside Ireland for the rest of this year obviously played a significant role in JW Tours opting to cease trading. International holidays are back in play for most of EU this summer - but not Ireland. This is the price we pay

JWT said they had done no trading since the start of the pandemic, even though there were no restrictions in place last year.

It would be incorrect to say that Ireland is closed for travel this summer and everyone else is open. Or even mostly open. Nobody has a clue what travel will look like this summer, in any country.

Champagne Sally

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

I'd say it'll be fine... have some been vaccinated already and all that.


But as its a Government Organisation, its very bad optics.

Oh yeah totally agree it will probably be fine and fun too but as you say it's about the optics None of the staff are vaccinated yet. Oldest I think she said is 58yrs.

She is worried though about catching covid and has been all through the pandemic.

pauldry

Havent left my county since Dec 26th so even a trip to Roscommon at this stage will be like a holiday abroad.

seamus

Deleted User wrote: »

The numbers being presented in India are a fraction of the total, both deaths and cases. I hadn’t appreciated until I heard directly from Mumbai management today how serious it is down there

Yeah, from the little I've heard, it seems to be chaos. The testing system is completely overrun; both public and private. Meaning that there is a 5-7 day wait between booking the test and getting back results.

There are covid-specific hospitals set up with the oxygen and other equipment, but you cannot get admitted without a positive PCR test. Obviously these hospitals are 100% full anyway. Other hospitals are mostly full too but they will turn away anyone with covid symptoms if at all possible.

So you have the situation where people are developing breathing problems, but can't get admitted to a covid hospital, because they can't get a test. In some cases family members are driving them from hospital to hospital hoping for a bed to be available.

It's harrowing, but it also means the numbers are very unreliable. The cases being detected are only a fraction of those with symptoms, and there are a lot of people dying without having ever been tested. And if living people can't get tested, I doubt they're doing many tests on cadavers.

We won't really know the full scale of what's happening in India until the wave has burned out.

Eod100

Interesting https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1387052080343388165?s=19

timmyntc

seamus wrote: »

JWT said they had done no trading since the start of the pandemic, even though there were no restrictions in place last year.

It would be incorrect to say that Ireland is closed for travel this summer and everyone else is open. Or even mostly open. Nobody has a clue what travel will look like this summer, in any country.

Did you miss the Head of EU announcement yesterday that vaccinated US travellers are allowed into Europe for holidays this summer?

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/25/world/europe/american-travel-to-europe.html

Travel to Spain, Portugal, France, Italy(from June) and more are all open to tourism from EU and select other countries with no quarantine requirement.
Ireland is the outlier here - most other countries will be happily taking tourists this summer and likely beyond that as vaccinations ramp up.

The new travel routes out of Belfast airport are proof of this too, moved from Ireland to NI because in the south our travel rules are far too restrictive.

Chris_5339762

Interesting. Maybe theres evidence but AFAIK we're the first to say that?

Turtwig

seamus wrote: »

We won't really know the full scale of what's happening in India until the wave has burned out.

Sadly, I don't think we will ever know. The detailed historic death records by which you might be able to make comparisons to estimate stuff like excess deaths are non existent.

Suffice to say comparing Ireland and India on per capita or whatever basis has about as much reliable grounding as comparing Ireland with Narnia.

funnydoggy

Eod100 wrote: »

Interesting https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1387052080343388165?s=19

That'll be fun for the database admins :pac:

Mitch Connor

Eod100 wrote: »

Interesting https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1387052080343388165?s=19

interesting..... is this backed by science elsewhere? I would be unlikely for Ireland to go out on a limb like this, but I've not seen such a declaration elsewhere.

Eod100

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Interesting. Maybe theres evidence but AFAIK we're the first to say that?

Think so. Wonder how it will work in practice? Confirmed test result I guess. Maybe HSE has database of them and linked to name, dob and PPSN say.

KrustyUCC

Eod100 wrote: »

Interesting https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1387052080343388165?s=19

Wow that could be a game changer considering the amount of people under 50 who have had COVID

Should really speed up vaccinating 49 and under groups

seamus

timmyntc wrote: »

Did you miss the Head of EU announcement yesterday that vaccinated US travellers are allowed into Europe for holidays this summer?

That's not actually what she said, because she wouldn't say that. The EU President doesn't have the power to decide travel policy for member states.

What she did say was that because the vaccines in use in the USA are the same as the ones in the EU, any American vaccinated will be considered "as vaccinated" as an EU citizen.

This will allow for the movement of full vaccinated individuals freely within the EU.

Ireland already allows free movement of fully vaccinated travellers without quarantine.

Meaning that we are fully in alignment with the rest of the bloc and International travel is on the agenda this Summer - for fully vaccinated individuals.

You might have missed that though.