Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

UI_Paddy

UI_Paddy wrote: »

The rise in cases we saw early this year was caused by the UK B117 variant. I know very few people who weren't responsible at Christmas.

Except that at the start of January only 10% of cases were the “variant”

arccosh

ypres5 wrote: »

Brilliant rebuttal. So when do you think masks and social distancing will be done away with and why do you think so? Because all indications from gov are they'll be here a while yet

double nah

ypres5

PintOfView wrote: »

Indefinitely means forever.
However that's not what that article says.
It's clearly meant to just last until the threat from Covid has passed.
See ...

And when will the threat of covid be deemed as passed? It might as well be indefinitely

ypres5

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Reality rarely impinges when the thread gets into full rant mode

So posting an article and commenting on it's contents is 'ranting' now is it? Have you anything of substance to add or just make petty jabs as usual?

ypres5

arccosh wrote: »

double nah

Sorry I'll try and use smaller words from now on to make it a bit easier for you. Bless.

scamalert

if only few who lost their marbles would realize aside vaccines this **** covid situation wont be getting any better and doesnt matter whatever is done that few thousand extra deaths means f all, when theres circa 30k annually dying from other chance illnesses accidents and diseases in greater scheme we reached a point where goverment only needs to do one job and its getting jab into muscles as fast as possible and letting of the idiotic concept to save a few, while drowning everyone then we could be back to normal in no time.

0lddog

ypres5 wrote: »

And when will the threat of covid be deemed as passed? It might as well be indefinitely

Will be in the constitution. Right there beside 'The right to bare arms'

arccosh

ypres5 wrote: »

Sorry I'll try and use smaller words from now on to make it a bit easier for you. Bless.

don't be sorry, it'll still be garbage anyway

ypres5

ypres5 wrote: »

So posting an article and commenting on it's contents is 'ranting' now is it? Have you anything of substance to add or just make petty jabs as usual?

You say “commenting” I say “misrepresenting to engage rant force 9”. Either that or just reading the headline and first paragraph, which given the propensity of the majority of posters to jump in with the opinion before they even read the source, irrespective of their position on most issues, may in fact be the case

ypres5

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You say “commenting” I say “misrepresenting to engage rant force 9”. Either that or just reading the headline and first paragraph, which given the propensity of the majority of posters to jump in with the opinion before they even read the source, irrespective of their position on most issues, may in fact be the case

So when will the threat of covid be deemed as passed? Can you answer that question once your finished throwing around accusations?

ypres5

arccosh wrote: »

don't be sorry, it'll still be garbage anyway

U okay hun pm me xx

arccosh

ypres5 wrote: »

U okay hun pm me xx

no tanx bbz the hack

Beasty

ypres5 and arccosh

I suggest putting each other on ignore as you are both acting uncivilly towards one another

ypres5

ypres5 wrote: »

So when will the threat of covid be deemed as passed? Can you answer that question once your finished throwing around accusations?

When enough people have resistance through vaccination or previous infection to no longer require suppression methods to control spread and prevent hospitalisations. This will be in two phases. When just the vulnerable are done and when effective suppression is reached. The UK and much of the US has passed phase 1. Israel has passed phase 2. We will reach phase 1 next month and phase 2 before the end of June. The majority of the world’s population won’t get there this year unfortunately.

When we reach what I called phase 2 the will still need to be monitoring of “variants” but these are highly unlikely to cause the levels of severe disease in those already exposed/vaccinated and the vaccine technology will be rapidly deployed to deal with emerging issues. Prepare to be surprised by the pace of return to something approaching normality over the summer. By next year, for us at least, essentially it will be like an enhanced version of ongoing influenza surveillance

charlie14

Zebra3 wrote: »

What has that got to do with stats not being provided to the EU on (potentially) excessive mortality rates?

Other than there are no official stats to back up what the Mayo coroner is assuming, which is at variance with the Eurostat stats from every other E.U. country, and, as another poster showed the U.S.A., as regarding large excess deaths for the months corresponding with when the various waves were at their height you mean?

If that coroner is correct, then I cannot see anything to explain Ireland looking like one of the most, if not the actual most, successful countries in the world in regards to minimising Covid-19 deaths. Can you ?

Dickie10

there are loads of backroads across the border anyway, even if you stay off the main roads. Gardai are pretty much done with any covid checkpoints since they didnt get their jabs. expect only token ones from now and i would think none in a months time

Sharpyshoot

Dickie10 wrote: »

there are loads of backroads across the border anyway, even if you stay off the main roads. Gardai are pretty much done with any covid checkpoints since they didnt get their jabs. expect only token ones from now and i would think none in a months time

Just wait for a wet day also. First drop of rain and it’s into the car to catch up on their phones.

charlie14

Del Griffith wrote: »

I honestly thought you'd switched sides when I read that. That's precisely what's happening with deaths counted as covid. You can literally die of anything and if you test positive, you're in the numbers.

Is that what you meant, its grand when it's covid but obviously absurd if it were road fatalities?

If there was any kind of plausible explanation for excess deaths coinciding with the heights of the various Covid waves then that could possibly be true. But I have yet to hear one.

TomSweeney

Deleted User wrote: »

When enough people have resistance through vaccination or previous infection to no longer require suppression methods to control spread and prevent hospitalisations. This will be in two phases. When just the vulnerable are done and when effective suppression is reached. The UK and much of the US has passed phase 1. Israel has passed phase 2. We will reach phase 1 next month and phase 2 before the end of June. The majority of the world’s population won’t get there this year unfortunately.

When we reach what I called phase 2 the will still need to be monitoring of “variants” but these are highly unlikely to cause the levels of severe disease in those already exposed/vaccinated and the vaccine technology will be rapidly deployed to deal with emerging issues. Prepare to be surprised by the pace of return to something approaching normality over the summer. By next year, for us at least, essentially it will be like an enhanced version of ongoing influenza surveillance

The problem with this is they are allready saying full vaccination won't return us to normal, Canadian PM said this the other day.

I don't know what will in their eyes ...

Also heard even though the US has 50% of adults vaccinated (you'd think that would include all the vulnerable) they still expect 600K more deaths this summer.

So, I don't know what to believe anymore, there is elements that want this to last forever.

Sharpyshoot

TomSweeney wrote: »

So, I don't know what to believe anymore, there is elements that want this to last forever.

I would to if I were on nphet wages.

Kivaro

Sharpyshoot wrote: »

I would to if I were on nphet wages.

Reading earlier about the notion that in order to regain fundamental rights in this country, we do not have to overthrow the government, but a group of very wealthy professionals in Nphet instead? Our government leaders will be too busy either stuttering or tweeting during the overthrow, so it will really make no difference to them.

One would hope that an Irish government is never allowed to repeat this utter disregard for freedoms that were hard earned over a 100 years ago. This coalition government was somehow allowed to impose the strictest restrictions in Europe and among the most repressive in the whole world on the Irish people. I think we all need to have a serious introspective think on why they were allowed to get away with it. If we don't, they will lock us down again at the first sign of a cold.

arccosh

Kivaro wrote: »

Reading earlier about the notion that in order to regain fundamental rights in this country, we do not have to overthrow the government, but a group of very wealthy professionals in Nphet instead? Our government leaders will be too busy either stuttering or tweeting during the overthrow, so it will really make no difference to them.

One would hope that an Irish government is never allowed to repeat this utter disregard for freedoms that were hard earned over a 100 years ago. This coalition government was somehow allowed to impose the strictest restrictions in Europe and among the most repressive in the whole world on the Irish people. I think we all need to have a serious introspective think on why they were allowed to get away with it. If we don't, they will lock us down again at the first sign of a cold.

at least deaths were kept fairly low

TomSweeney

TomSweeney wrote: »

The problem with this is they are allready saying full vaccination won't return us to normal, Canadian PM said this the other day.

I don't know what will in their eyes ...

Also heard even though the US has 50% of adults vaccinated (you'd think that would include all the vulnerable) they still expect 600K more deaths this summer.

So, I don't know what to believe anymore, there is elements that want this to last forever.

There is a disparity in vaccine uptake in much of the US which is why I said “much of the us”

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/04/17/us/vaccine-hesitancy-politics.html

But even so, 600k deaths is 4x the current rate sustained for 6 months. Would be interested to know who said that

francogarbanzo

arccosh wrote: »

at least deaths were kept fairly low

“Protect the healthcare service!”

gozunda

Del Griffith wrote: »

I honestly thought you'd switched sides when I read that. That's precisely what's happening with deaths counted as covid.You can literally die of anything and if you test positive, you're in the numbers.

Is that what you meant, its grand when it's covid but obviously absurd if it were road fatalities?

Ha a fudge :pac:

Except of course that's not the case.

This was the claim being made by the solicitor (coroner) in question who claimed people's "principle cause of death" was being recorded as covid when he claimed "In reality, a lot of people have terminal cancer or multiple other serious co-morbidities"

That's not as you said "if you test positive" btw.

This is how cause of death is recorded in Ireland - just in case you're not aware

Following a death, a registered medical practitioner who attended the deceased will complete and sign Part 1 of a Death Notification Form (DNF), and this will include information on the cause of death.

The Cause of Death is completed by the medical practitioner who attended the deceased and has the following information:

Part 1(a):Disease or condition directly leading to death, (this does not mean the mode of dying e.g. heart failure etc., it means the disease that caused death) due to (or as consequence of) Part 1(b): Antecedent Causes (morbid conditions, if any, giving rise to the above cause stating the underlying condition last) due to (or as consequence of)Part1(c): Further Antecedent Causes Part 2: Other Significant Conditions (contributing to the death but not related to the disease or condition causing it)

So yeah if you're in hospital with covid and you happen to have an existing heart condition - but it is covid-19 which is found to be responsible for your death as determined by a registered medical practitioner - then that's what gets entered in Part 1 (a).

If there are other co-morbidities and other significant conditions they get recorded on the death certificate as well.

So its the "principle disease or condition directly leading to death" which is relevant here.

So it's bs to try and claim that "you can literally die of anything and if you test positive, you're in the numbers".

And in addition If you so happen to get hit and killed by a bus and you had an earlier positive test for covid and recovered (despite having a dicky heart) your cause of death will not be recorded as Covid-19.

hynesie08

Why waste your time, it's been a year and they're still peddling that lie.....

Mimon

Booked a place in Portugal for end of October break. Booking.com so free cancellation, holding off on flights for the moment.

What do people reckon on chances of being able to have a normal holiday with no restrictions on return?

I'm optimistic but variants could be a spanner in the works. See Portugal is probably slightly ahead of us in terms of numbers vaccinated.

schmoo2k

francogarbanzo wrote: »

“Protect the healthcare service!”

Interesting that our current death rate, ICU occupancy and Hospitalised Covid patients all line up with May 31 2020 numbers!

Hopefully it will continue to track those numbers throughout the summer months, which would imply that the relaxations could be approx. 6 weeks earlier than what we saw in 2020?

Allinall

TomSweeney wrote: »

there is elements that want this to last forever.

Sharpyshoot wrote: »

I would to if I were on nphet wages.

You do realise the members of NPHET were on the same salary before Covid, and will be after COVID?

arccosh

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francogarbanzo wrote: »

“Protect the healthcare service!”

sure why not

TomSweeney

Mimon wrote: »

Booked a place in Portugal for end of October break. Booking.com so free cancellation, holding off on flights for the moment.

What do people reckon on chances of being able to have a normal holiday with no restrictions on return?

I'm optimistic but variants could be a spanner in the works. See Portugal is probably slightly ahead of us in terms of numbers vaccinated.

I think you can be cautiously optimistic, Portugal rely on tourism and will want to open up quicker - now if it were somewhere like NZ/Australia/Norway I'd say forget it, but Portugal I think will be open by October - you may need the vaccine though.




Europe should be in a much better place by October anyway.

opinionated3

TomSweeney wrote: »

I think you can be cautiously optimistic, Portugal rely on tourism and will want to open up quicker - now if it were somewhere like NZ/Australia/Norway I'd say forget it, but Portugal I think will be open by October - you may need the vaccine though.




Europe should be in a much better place by October anyway.

Europe probably will be in a better place late summer, but our government/ nphet will probably insist on quarantine when you return home, thus making international travel a no no.

normanoffside

gozunda wrote: »

So it's bs to try and claim that "you can literally die of anything and if you test positive, you're in the numbers".

So, was Leo Varadkar lying then when he said you can literally die of anything and if you test positive you are in the numbers? He went even further and said you are in the numbers if you are a suspected positive with no test.

https://twitter.com/LeoVaradkar/status/1278995351169613824

OwenM

Deleted User wrote: »

There is a disparity in vaccine uptake in much of the US which is why I said “much of the us”

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/04/17/us/vaccine-hesitancy-politics.html

But even so, 600k deaths is 4x the current rate sustained for 6 months. Would be interested to know who said that

50% of republicans, in an article I read over the weekend. How did that happen? I mean they always had their lunatic elements like the evangelicals christians, the NRA/gun nuts etc but 50%........

KanyeSouthEast

opinionated3 wrote: »

Europe probably will be in a better place late summer, but our government/ nphet will probably insist on quarantine when you return home, thus making international travel a no no.

So quarantine with a negative test and fully vaccinated? What’s the fuxkin point of any of this really?

opinionated3

KanyeSouthEast wrote: »

So quarantine with a negative test and fully vaccinated? What’s the fuxkin point of any of this really?

I just believe that they are so ultra cautious, that the quarantine could remain here for quite some time yet. I hope I'm wrong cos I'd love a week in Portugal in September too

OwenM

OwenM wrote: »

50% of republicans, in an article I read over the weekend. How did that happen? I mean they always had their lunatic elements like the evangelicals christians, the NRA/gun nuts etc but 50%........

The vaccine was developed by libtards and turns your DNA commie

Tenzor07

KanyeSouthEast wrote: »

So quarantine with a negative test and fully vaccinated? What’s the fuxkin point of any of this really?

Point is they want to maintain the stance on travel since this started, i.e. Do Not Travel...

No one's going to take a flight for holidays with these Govt. Restrictions in place, and that's what they want.

TomSweeney

KanyeSouthEast wrote: »

So quarantine with a negative test and fully vaccinated? What’s the fuxkin point of any of this really?

There won't be quarantine for fully vaccinated people, this won't be allowed to happen in the EU - especially the way other countries have said they will be open to vaccinified people - exempting them from quarantine AND tests...

Tenzor07

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Point is they want to maintain the stance on travel since this started, i.e. Do Not Travel...

No one's going to take a flight for holidays with these Govt. Restrictions in place, and that's what they want.

Understandable. But come September, if I’m vaccinated I’ll be leaving and I won’t be quarantining either.
The Govt must be in cloud cuckoo land thinking that one is going to fly once we get the majority jabbed.

arccosh

Deleted User wrote: »

Understandable. But come September, if I’m vaccinated I’ll be leaving and I won’t be quarantining either.
The Govt must be in cloud cuckoo land thinking that one is going to fly once we get the majority jabbed.

course you will, not a single bit of regard for someone who might not be, selfishness at it's finest

gozunda

normanoffside wrote: »

So, was Leo Varadkar lying then when he said you can literally die of anything and if you test positive you are in the numbers? He went even further and said you are in the numbers if you are a suspected positive with no test.

https://twitter.com/LeoVaradkar/status/1278995351169613824

Except he doesn't. His 'tweet' appears to be primarily in response to an article about a study on "excess deaths" which assessed the number of deaths that occurred in Ireland from 11 March to 16 June relative to the expected number of deaths, using data from the death notices website RIP.ie.

Oddly he refers "Lab tests" etc which aren't even mentioned in the article itself. And he doesn't say "you can literally die of anything and if you test positive you are in the numbers" nor does he say "you are in the numbers if you are a suspected positive with no test"

More importantly it is now known that RIP and death notices are not a reliable means of gatheing data for such studies. Was Leo lying? I doubt it, but the tweet really doesn't amount to much giving the age and context of the tweet in question.

Eitherway the article goes on to quote Dr Teljeur
(Senior statistician - Trinity College Dublin) Who said the official death numbers was an accurate estimate at the time and despite some people having serious underlying conditions - that those people did die as a result of contracting the virus. 

If you wish to go down the conspiracy theory rabbit hole about "excess deaths" be my guest.

Here's is a more recent and much more comprehensive article on same.

https://www.thejournal.ie/factfind-ireland-excess-deaths-covid-19-5376262-Mar2021/

Kivaro

Delighted to hear stories this morning of people enjoying themselves all around the country over the weekend. Many coastal towns were packed with reports of long queues for fish & chips and deli food. I'm sure lots of people went beyond their 20 km limit across county borders in order to get sea air into their lungs and to walk along the beach.

RTE will be livid about this, and they will probably have their how-hanging-fruit crack RTE Investigates Team on the case to find out more about these restrictions breakers who were enjoying their newfound freedoms. :pac:

Wait until the good weather arrives later this week .........

arccosh

Kivaro wrote: »

Delighted to hear stories this morning of people enjoying themselves all around the country over the weekend. Many coastal towns were packed with reports of long queues for fish & chips and deli food. I'm sure lots of people went beyond their 20 km limit across county borders in order to get sea air into their lungs and to walk along the beach.

RTE will be livid about this, and they will probably have their how-hanging-fruit crack RTE Investigates Team on the case to find out more about these restrictions breakers who were enjoying their newfound freedoms. :pac:

Wait until the good weather arrives later this week .........

disgraceful carry on, no moral backbone

darconio

I've already posted this million times, I hope this clarifies that yes, the death toll, is/was inflated to include people that didn't die directly from Covid.

This comes from an official source:

https://www.hiqa.ie/sites/default/files/2020-07/Analysis-of-excess-all-cause-mortality-in-Ireland-during-the-COVID-19-epidemic_0.pdf

As of mid April, in line with World Health Organization (WHO) guidance, death reporting was extended to include deaths both in patients with probable COVID-19 in addition to deaths among confirmed cases.
By definition, such deaths must result from a clinically compatible illness, in a probable or confirmed COVID-19 case, unless there is a clear alternative cause of death that cannot be related to COVID-19 (for example, trauma).

A lot of probable, probably he died from Covid, in doubt add him/her to the death toll

FintanMcluskey

Allinall wrote: »

You do realise the members of NPHET were on the same salary before Covid, and will be after COVID?

Exactly

Completed insulated from the harsh reality on the ground

FlubberJones

Deleted User wrote: »

Understandable. But come September, if I’m vaccinated I’ll be leaving and I won’t be quarantining either.
The Govt must be in cloud cuckoo land thinking that one is going to fly once we get the majority jabbed.

Yep, I expect to be travelling prior to this, I'm hoping Aug to be on the continent. Like so many others... I need to get away!!!!

Kivaro

Kivaro wrote: »

Delighted to hear stories this morning of people enjoying themselves all around the country over the weekend. Many coastal towns were packed with reports of long queues for fish & chips and deli food. I'm sure lots of people went beyond their 20 km limit across county borders in order to get sea air into their lungs and to walk along the beach.

RTE will be livid about this, and they will probably have their how-hanging-fruit crack RTE Investigates Team on the case to find out more about these restrictions breakers who were enjoying their newfound freedoms. :pac:

Wait until the good weather arrives later this week .........

Its great to see so many people out and about. Was out in Howth yesterday and the place was mental. Havent seen it so busy in a long time. Traffic was crazy going into it

Seanachai

Kivaro wrote: »

Delighted to hear stories this morning of people enjoying themselves all around the country over the weekend. Many coastal towns were packed with reports of long queues for fish & chips and deli food. I'm sure lots of people went beyond their 20 km limit across county borders in order to get sea air into their lungs and to walk along the beach.

RTE will be livid about this, and they will probably have their how-hanging-fruit crack RTE Investigates Team on the case to find out more about these restrictions breakers who were enjoying their newfound freedoms. :pac:

Wait until the good weather arrives later this week .........

Great to see people on the canal in Phibsboro too, it's not just self-indulgence, it's vital for mental health. Not everybody has company at home or a big garden to chill out in.

Tenzor07

Deleted User wrote: »

Its great to see so many people out and about. Was out in Howth yesterday and the place was mental. Havent seen it so busy in a long time. Traffic was crazy going into it

Sure was! Saturday was extremely busy around places like Malahide and Howth, traffic jams not seen since before the start of the Lockdown, people just sitting in their cars experiencing the novelty of being in a traffic jam for the first time in about 13 months! :eek:

Parks and forestry areas packed, cars parked on top of each other, there's a lot of pent up demand for people who want to get back to normality after these 13+ month restrictions....