Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Tenzor07

hynesie08 wrote: »

but all expert advisors/committees will publish their findings, it's the only way to ensure transparency.

By all means let the experts on Nphet publish their findings via the relevant Govt. minister and dept. but letting them become almost like celebrities who you can see people refer to the CMO as "Tony" like as if he was their mate who calls over to the house for tea and biscuits means they have far too much power and influence on public/Government policy and use it to get their way.....

scamalert

scamalert wrote: »

yes exactly.thank you

So the thread believes in freedom of expression once its only freedom to say what the thread deems acceptable. Got it

Tenzor07

hynesie08 wrote: »

So again, you're saying private citizens shouldn't be allowed express an opinion.

"Private citizens" with a National media profile and a massive amount of influence on public opinion makes them far more than the mere private citizen as you say here...

ypres5

hynesie08 wrote: »

So again, you're saying private citizens shouldn't be allowed express an opinion.

Yes because the CMO and Barry down the road have the same influence on government policy and actions when they speak against them on twitter...

hynesie08

Tenzor07 wrote: »

By all means let the experts on Nphet publish their findings via the relevant Govt. minister and dept. but letting them become almost like celebrities who you can see people refer to the CMO as "Tony" like as if he was their mate who calls over to the house for tea and biscuits means they have far too much power and influence on public/Government policy and use it to get their way.....

Again, I agree, they should never have been the face of this, but I'd argue that's a failing of the government rather than a desperate power grab by NPHET.

Tenzor07 wrote: »

"Private citizens" with a National media profile and a massive amount of influence on public opinion makes them far more than the mere private citizen as you say here...

They have the same number of votes and arseholes as you and me, they're entitled to the same right to free speech.

hynesie08

ypres5 wrote: »

Yes because the CMO and Barry down the road have the same influence on government policy and actions when they speak against them on twitter...

So speaking out against the government shouldn't be allowed because it might influence change?

ypres5

hynesie08 wrote: »

So speaking out against the government shouldn't be allowed because it might influence change?

That's obviously not what I'm saying but clearly you've got your own agenda to push. The point I'm making is that holohan has a larger public profile than any member of the public so anything he says that's critical or negative of gov policy is going to reverberate stronger than someone spouting on twitter so you can't compare them like for like. Seems fairly obvious to me but I can't speak for everyone.

Tenzor07

hynesie08 wrote: »

They have the same number of votes and arseholes as you and me, they're entitled to the same right to free speech.

Basically yea, but when you or I express our opinions it doesn't hold much weight and very few people would listen..... the CMO and the likes speak and it's headline news, appearances on the Late Late Show... free speech is a lot different isn't it....

Tenzor07

hynesie08 wrote: »

So speaking out against the government shouldn't be allowed because it might influence change?

Free speech in the form of public protest is basically illegal under current level 5 restrictions anyways, so for you and I, johnny public, trying to influence change it means waiting another 3 years to vote...

Klonker

I don't think Tony H being back will make much difference. Do people really think he wasn't in touch with NPHET since he left in February giving his opinion?

KrustyUCC

His opinions hold much greater sway when he's back

we went from the country not going to level three on a Thursday night to straight to level 5 on a Sunday as soon as Tony returned

No coincidence there for me

Tenzor07

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Basically yea, but when you or I express our opinions it doesn't hold much weight and very few people would listen..... the CMO and the likes speak and it's headline news, appearances on the Late Late Show... free speech is a lot different isn't it....

Of course being CMO affords a greater platform. What should it not?

This boils down to rank anti-intellectualism. "I dont like what the experts say so I will denigrate, insult and dismiss their opinion and their right to actually express that opinion while promoting all sorts of nonsense from every class of charlatan about"

hynesie08

ypres5 wrote: »

That's obviously not what I'm saying but clearly you've got your own agenda to push. The point I'm making is that holohan has a larger public profile than any member of the public so anything he says that's critical or negative of gov policy is going to reverberate stronger than someone spouting on twitter so you can't compare them like for like. Seems fairly obvious to me but I can't speak for everyone.

No agenda here, you're absolutely right that some voices carry more weight than others, and they should put a bit more thought into what they say before they say it. But they should always be afforded the right to say it.

Limerick91

Bad timing for Tony the Lockdown king coming back.
The government messed up back in Feb 2021 by putting NPHET in from of the TV cameras.
NPHET should be advising the government and not holding press conferences

hynesie08

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Basically yea, but when you or I express our opinions it doesn't hold much weight and very few people would listen..... the CMO and the likes speak and it's headline news, appearances on the Late Late Show... free speech is a lot different isn't it....

See, that's arguing about the platform rather than the message, of course if they invite the CMO on to talk about the tightening of restrictions they should have a counter opinion, but that's not on the CMO.

Tenzor07

hynesie08 wrote: »

See, that's arguing about the platform rather than the message, of course if they invite the CMO on to talk about the tightening of restrictions they should have a counter opinion, but that's not on the CMO.

You said they're private citizens which is true, so is Elon Musk, but no one cares or wants to hear what private citizen Hynsie08 thinks on the matter of electric cars and if he should keep his old VW Passat Diesel....

ypres5

hynesie08 wrote: »

No agenda here, you're absolutely right that some voices carry more weight than others, and they should put a bit more thought into what they say before they say it. But they should always be afforded the right to say it.

I never said he shouldn't have the right to please don't put words in my mouth

normanoffside

KrustyUCC wrote: »

His opinions hold much greater sway when he's back

we went from the country not going to level three on a Thursday night to straight to level 5 on a Sunday as soon as Tony returned

No coincidence there for me

Robert Watt has apparently been fine the brief of reigning Tony in. Mad that we have to pay someone €300k to do that instead of just getting rid of the problem

ypres5

normanoffside wrote: »

Robert Watt has apparently been fine the brief of reigning Tony in. Mad that we have to pay someone €300k to do that instead of just getting rid of the problem

The problem is if you simply sacked holohan the press would turn him into a martyr

Allinall

normanoffside wrote: »

Robert Watt has apparently been fine the brief of reigning Tony in. Mad that we have to pay someone €300k to do that instead of just getting rid of the problem

There is a problem?

ypres5

ypres5 wrote: »

The problem is if you simply sacked holohan the press would turn him into a martyr

PTH2009

The timing of the return is a little coincidental and if we hear whispers of 'a significant change in the reopening plans' than we knw who is truly running the show

With the UK and The North opening it will put pressure on our lads but its not a given

charlie14

charlie14 wrote: »

What percentage had it made even shorter by Covid ?

We're back to "they were circling the drain anyway, open the country back up" now are we? I thought this narrative was quashed this time last year, obviously not.

User1998 wrote: »

I don’t see the big deal about having say 10% more worldwide deaths for 1 year. Its 1 year out of thousands and thousands of years that people have been on this earth. Think of the bigger picture

User1998 wrote: »

What I’m saying is that if we had of relaxed with the whole worldwide lockdowns and ended up with 10% excess deaths for one year and one year only would it had really been a massive deal?

Those are the words of a sociopath. You don't care if an extra 6 million people die, because you're sick of not being able to go to the shop/pub/Croke Park?Disgusting.

niallo27 wrote: »

I really do have a deep dislike for Tony H, it's the Tony show and he loves it.

That's also equally disgusting. The man has been doing a job to the best of his abilities, while going through one of the most traumatic experiences a person can go through. A job serving the public which sometimes requires high stress situations, late nights, public appearances, back-to-back press conferences and having everyone in the country party to the most private pain you could imagine.......but you're calling him a narcissist because you think his recommendations are too strict?

The fcuk is wrong with people?

TomSweeney

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56813852

Again, bureaucracy months behind reality, I wonder how long this will last ?

I reckon the advice will still be in place months after covid has shrunk to practically zero threat.

This is the type of advice that should have been given in February 2020, but instead it's given at a stage when almost half of the US Pop. are vaccinated.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That's also equally disgusting. The man has been doing a job to the best of his abilities, while going through one of the most traumatic experiences a person can go through. A job serving the public which sometimes requires high stress situations, late nights, public appearances, back-to-back press conferences and having everyone in the country party to the most private pain you could imagine.......but you're calling him a narcissist because you think his recommendations are too strict?

The fcuk is wrong with people?

The fcuk is wrong with people indeed. The fcuk is wrong with half a million citizens denied a livelihood over past year by strict recommendations. The fcuk is wrong with the abandoned hospitality sector, trivialised and mocked by flippant statements like "Covid loves alcohol". The fcuk is wrong with those struggling with mental health issues. The fcuk is wrong with reopening the economy and plugging the spiralling national debt, before we plunge headlong into another deep recession.

A beyond wearied and exasperated public have had enough of the fcuking Tony show.

hynesie08

PTH2009 wrote: »

The timing of the return is a little coincidental and if we hear whispers of 'a significant change in the reopening plans' than we knw who is truly running the show

With the UK and The North opening it will put pressure on our lads but its not a given

The CMO and head of nphet returning to work the week before the government announce the roadmap out of lockdown is the opposite of "coincidental"

Parachutes

[Deleted User] wrote: »

We're back to "they were circling the drain anyway, open the country back up" now are we? I thought this narrative was quashed this time last year, obviously not.





Those are the words of a sociopath. You don't care if an extra 6 million people die, because you're sick of not being able to go to the shop/pub/Croke Park?Disgusting.




That's also equally disgusting. The man has been doing a job to the best of his abilities, while going through one of the most traumatic experiences a person can go through. A job serving the public which sometimes requires high stress situations, late nights, public appearances, back-to-back press conferences and having everyone in the country party to the most private pain you could imagine.......but you're calling him a narcissist because you think his recommendations are too strict?

The fcuk is wrong with people?

Jesus Christ... how much RTE do you listen to? I think its melted your brain.

Corholio

Whatever about Tony coming back etc, Glynn wil be missed for how he speaks imo. The last few weeks especially, it was a good balance of positivity and the caution they have to inevitably have. Hopefully this can continue because I believe it does make a difference to people and their behaviour to have a good, positive aimed balance.

ypres5

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Low effort meme, irrelevant to the context of the conversation 2/10. Must try harder

VeryWise

Working for Stephen Donnelly, managing Tony Holohan, if he can put some manners on that it’s the best 300k we ever spent!

normanoffside

Allinall wrote: »

There is a problem?

Well if they re appointing someone with a brief to reign him in, there must be.

Allinall

normanoffside wrote: »

Well if they re appointing someone with a brief to reign him in, there must be.

Where did you see that that’s the brief?

Corcaigh84

Not sure if already mentioned but my buddy who owns a golf course told me it's opening for members only on Monday coming.

normanoffside

At least Micheal Martin has got his priorities in order.

https://twitter.com/MichealMartinTD/status/1384521536615354375

AlekSmart

Sharpyshoot wrote: »

There will be no after COVID, you do realise that?

Oh but there will most definitely be an "after Covid".....

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0420/1210971-robert-watt/

However, it is understood that Mr Watt is set to waive a proposed salary increase for what was described by two Government sources as the "time being".

The annual salary for the new secretary general had been set to increase to €292,000.

Mr Watt has occupied the post on an interim basis, on a salary of €211,000, for several months.

It appears the Official Term is...."for the time being".

Best of luck to the chap........particularly in the task of putting the 579 ICU beds in place

Degag

Deleted User wrote: »

That's also equally disgusting. The man has been doing a job to the best of his abilities, while going through one of the most traumatic experiences a person can go through. A job serving the public which sometimes requires high stress situations, late nights, public appearances, back-to-back press conferences and having everyone in the country party to the most private pain you could imagine.......but you're calling him a narcissist because you think his recommendations are too strict?

The fcuk is wrong with people?

Agree 100%. The man is doing his job and some of the vitriol i see written on here is shameful. People should take a good hard look at themselves. His job is to save as many lives as possible and therefore some of the measures he and NPHET suggest are risk-averse of course. Don't know how people can expect anything else.

The government are then to take these suggestions and try and match them with the actual needs of the people and the economy etc. A balanced approach if you will. Now one may argue that the approach isn't balanced, which is fine but you can do that with a bit of grace.

It's not easy, the last year hasn't, the next year may not but hopefully its getting better.

Hellrazer

Deleted User wrote: »

That's also equally disgusting. The man has been doing a job to the best of his abilities, while going through one of the most traumatic experiences a person can go through. A job serving the public which sometimes requires high stress situations, late nights, public appearances, back-to-back press conferences and having everyone in the country party to the most private pain you could imagine.......but you're calling him a narcissist because you think his recommendations are too strict?

The fcuk is wrong with people?

Ah poor Tony - he only gets paid 200 grand a year to do the job (badly)

He deserves the criticism he gets.

gozunda

ypres5 wrote: »

To quote another recent poster on here. 'My uncle works at Nintendo and he says they're making the Nintendo PlayStation.'

Yeah and much like that poster - unless you extend that piece of bs wisdom to all those who claim to have some expertise on this thread and etc - then that simply comes across as attacking those you don't agree with

As the French say - plus ça change ...

Allinall

Hellrazer wrote: »

Ah poor Tony - he only gets paid 200 grand a year to do the job (badly)

He deserves the criticism he gets.

What does his salary have to do with it?

Degag

Hellrazer wrote: »

Ah poor Tony - he only gets paid 200 grand a year to do the job (badly)

He deserves the criticism he gets.

Interested to know what qualifications you have to determine he is doing a bad job?

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

We're back to "they were circling the drain anyway, open the country back up" now are we? I thought this narrative was quashed this time last year, obviously not.





Those are the words of a sociopath. You don't care if an extra 6 million people die, because you're sick of not being able to go to the shop/pub/Croke Park?Disgusting.




That's also equally disgusting. The man has been doing a job to the best of his abilities, while going through one of the most traumatic experiences a person can go through. A job serving the public which sometimes requires high stress situations, late nights, public appearances, back-to-back press conferences and having everyone in the country party to the most private pain you could imagine.......but you're calling him a narcissist because you think his recommendations are too strict?

The fcuk is wrong with people?

Quite a lot it would seem...

Coillte_Bhoy

Allinall wrote: »

Where did you see that that’s the brief?

Some randomer posted it and it suits the narrative of a certain cohort on here so its gospel now, dont ya know, expect to see it mentioned often

walus

paddyisreal wrote: »

And people say there is no hidden agenda with the media. Independent and rté have been a disgrace, that headline should of read "new variant in India but vaccine works" but as per usual its scaremongering alarmist bull**** out of them. The lockdown has been mana from heaven for the media industry and they have acted disgracefully promoting fear and angst at every turn.

Could not agree more. The media is junk these days, and just like junk food best to be avoided.

LineOfBeauty

https://www.independent.ie/news/groups-of-up-to-15-can-meet-up-for-outdoor-non-contact-dance-music-or-arts-activities-from-monday-40336272.html

So does that mean we get outdoor non contact football training for pods of 15 on Monday?

scamalert

will be fun once in couple weeks were opening up and few here will scream i wanna be in, why is there people outside :pac:


lunacy

charlie14

Deleted User wrote: »

We're back to "they were circling the drain anyway, open the country back up" now are we? I thought this narrative was quashed this time last year, obviously not.

The fcuk is wrong with people?

You may have taken my post out of context. It was in reply to a poster that appeared to of that opinion.


I actually fully agree with you.

The Big Easy

I don't think the return of Tony definitely means what everyone thinks it does.

While he wanted to be the one making the big decision by putting us in perpetual lockdown, he'll also want to be the one releasing us.

I've long thought that we won't come out of level 5 until he returns and can take the credit himself.

I don't know if the man is a narcissist or an egomaniac, but if his return does coincide with a significant relaxation of restrictions, it would certainly point to it.

Degag

Hellrazer wrote: »

I don't need any qualifications to determine that - his employment history speaks for itself.

The cervical scandal says it all really - In my opinion he should have been fired after that never mind allowed to handle this pandemic.

Well i for one think he is doing a decent job under what must be extreme pressure.

I don't know much about the cervical scandal to comment on that i'm afraid.

walus

Degag wrote: »

Well i for one think he is doing a decent job under what must be extreme pressure.

I don't know much about the cervical scandal to comment on that i'm afraid.

What pressure is he under? And more importantly who applies it?

PintOfView

The Big Easy wrote: »

I don't think the return of Tony definitely means what everyone thinks it does.

While he wanted to be the one making the big decision by putting us in perpetual lockdown, he'll also want to be the one releasing us.

I've long thought that we won't come out of level 5 until he returns and can take the credit himself.

I don't know if the man is a narcissist or an egomaniac, but if his return does coincide with a significant relaxation of restrictions, it would certainly point to it.

Do you mind me asking how you know so much about what's going on in his head?