Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

FintanMcluskey

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I don’t believe for one second the test centres are conspiracy to justify lockdown.
They doesn’t mean they won’t cause lockdown though.

They are another product of an abysmally slow reaction that started in March 2020. It’s only now an adequate testing protocol is in place.

My concern is the data these centres will generate will yet again lead to more conservativeness. I honestly believe they will be the cause of schools closing again. I struggle to believe the data will be accessed pragmatically and the positivity rate will be factored into any decisions made.

As regards your last point about easing restrictions would piss off a significant amount of pro restriction people.

Removing the travel restrictions and reopening gyms, pools and barbers etc surely can be justified with the current vaccination progress?

Do you honestly think we will justify reopening to those people, with HIGHER case numbers?

These testing centres will show one of two things - very low positive rates, only slightly shifting cases numbers and indicating that we are not missing many community cases, thus providing more data to support the case that we now have a level of control and could start to relax

Or high enough positive rates to shift cases by a significant amount. If of those 1700 that were tested yesterday 1% were positive, that moves the case numbers by only 17. Well within normal daily variation. If 1% of people with no reason to be tested are returning positive results it is suggestive of a problem starting to emerge. For comparison, my company offered pcr tests to everyone returning to work on site after Christmas. It’s a large manufacturing site and over 1000 tests were carried out. Positive rate was 0.6%, when the country was at 6000 cases per day.

So, it is highly unlikely that any random testing of the otherwise healthy will pick up large numbers of cases at the levels we are testing. If it does it tells of a larger problem in those areas. What is far more likely is that it will identify a handful of clusters before they emerge thus reducing overall case numbers in the next couple of weeks

shtpEdthePlum

The point of those pop up centres is that the infection rates are high in those areas. A lot of people who go will have something on their conscience, I would wager they will have a positivity level of at least 10%.

Hooked

finalfurlong wrote: »

Have to agree,However i read yesterday a headline saying that nphet were split on issue.I read on expecting to see a 5km v 20 km/county issue.The article went on to say that there was an even split between members who wanted to retain 5km and those who wanted it REDUCED to 2km.This really shows how misguided and impervious they are to life as lived.Bluff needs to be called but they seem to have carte blanche from government which is insane,They went on tonight with a clear run from media to patronise people for wanting to move !and talk! to each other-This is Orwellian and beyond b elief-depressing stuff,

Slavery is what it is...

The modern day ‘ball and chain’.

M_Murphy57

Sharpyshoot wrote: »

County wide is a given. No more Garda with the what is the purpose of your journey.

During the last inter county lockdown in October Gardai were stationed on Stephen's green asking this very question, despite it not being a county border 🀔 same on the n11 cabinteely

facehugger99

Micky 32 wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40251668.html

“”The Government will discuss scrapping the 5km travel limit at next Tuesday’s Cabinet meeting.””


“”Health Minister Stephen Donnelly confirmed that when Ireland has vaccinated the most vulnerable, we can expect to see "significantly less illness and death" which will allow people to return to more normal lives.“”


However the next two weeks are worrying :pac:

A bit of kite-flying to see what Karen on Facebook thinks.

While the 5km limit is a load of bollox and is being ignored by anyone with half a brain, the strangling of our economy and the fact the 25% of the working population are on SW is of far more concern.

Pitch n Putt

I see Dr Glynn is back calling it a disease again at the briefings. Seems to be a disease when any decisions need to be made.
A virus at all other times.

Disease or virus surely after a year of this we could at least expect some clarity as to what it is....

Why even use the word disease? Does that have a bigger fear factor?

It’s a respiratory virus surely ... dealt with by a worldwide overreaction....

FintanMcluskey

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

I see Dr Glynn is back calling it a disease again at the briefings. Seems to be a disease when any decisions need to be made.
A virus at all other times.

Disease or virus surely after a year of this we could at least expect some clarity as to what it is....

Why even use the word disease? Does that have a bigger fear factor?

It’s a respiratory virus surely ... dealt with by a worldwide overreaction....

It’s about time they started referring to it by its correct term

The cold

A lot of people caught the cold today doesn’t carry as much weight

Tork

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

It’s about time they started referring to it by its correct term

The cold

A lot of people caught the cold today doesn’t carry as much weight

I dare you to say that to the face of somebody who has lost a loved one to what you have decided is a "cold".

Tired332

Penfailed wrote: »

Eh? I'm not sure about America but they're only down to those in their 50s in the UK. Anyone younger than that have valid reasons to be vaccinated such as asthma.

My cousin living in Texas, got his. He is 41, Anyone any age can book an appointment to get one there if they want one.

Accidentally

PintOfView wrote: »

In the medium to long term I agree, we're going to have to live with it.
However, with vaccines in the process of being rolled out, it would seem foolish to now snatch defeat from the jaws of victory by dropping our guard.

Surely we can hold on for another couple of months, till the vulnerable and elderly are all vaccinated.
At that stage we could probably tolerate a degree of spread without too much risk to either the health service or the majority who catch it.

The problem here is that people are quickly loosing all trust in both the government and NPHET. It's hard to buy into something when it's surrounded by spin and moving goalposts, even if you agree with the basic concept.

FintanMcluskey

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

All fair points I don't really disagree with TBH. The reason I think we'll justify reopening with higher case numbers but lower positivity is there's been a lot of noise from government about us not getting case numbers as low as we did last year again. It's entirely possible that's an attempt to soften people up for keeping restrictions for longer, but I have a feeling it's an attempt to soften people in favour of restrictions up for a move away from focusing on case numbers. Suppose we'll see next week when the leaks ramp up.

Well see Jim.

If that happens it will be a clever tactical move by NPHET and government to actually reopen that will be so far out of character a shrink will be needed

These guys insisted on 2 lockdowns last Summer & Autumn with minimal numbers in hospitals and a few hundreds cases per day, and for the first time in over a year NPHET and government are acting proactively to reopen the country?

Let’s see indeed

JRant

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Well see Jim.

If that happens it will be a clever tactical move by NPHET and government to actually reopen that will be so far out of character a shrink will be needed

These guys insisted on 2 lockdowns last Summer & Autumn with minimal numbers in hospitals and a few hundreds cases per day, and for the first time in over a year NPHET and government are acting proactively to reopen the country?

Let’s see indeed

Pop up test centres or not we're are not going to drop below level 5 till the end of May at the earliest. They'll open construction and shift the travel limit while proclaiming they are lifting restrictions.

the kelt

So since February there’s been a 40% - 50% increase of cases in young children but only a fraction has to do with schools going back!!!

Do people out there genuinely swallow this bull**** now at this stage?

The main remit them and the government have is to keep schools open, pupils go back to school and cases go up but of course nothing to do with the decision of schools opening again, nah let’s find something else to blame!

The lack of a plan and this type of rhetoric that’s pissing people off. Just admit it that schools are back and cases are up, we all know it and the vast majority myself included actually feel it’s a trade off that’s required.

It’s this bull**** approach and the examples being made of old women on live tv for making mistakes that needs to stop. And then they wonder why people are not following restrictions anymore? Do they have a single person amongst them who has any qualifications in human behaviour analysis for example? It’s not rocket science, keep treating people like idiots on live tv and they ain’t going to follow ye anymore!!

NPHET have a critical role, the critical role in all this which needs to be maintained but at this stage they need to be taken off the stage.

Tork

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

It’s was a light hearted reference about what the virus was referred to as.

Is it offensive to those people what the virus is called

Oh, so you're going to try and play the innocent now, are you? It was a comment deliberately meant to annoy and offend. While it is perfectly fair to argue about the government's reaction to the viruses, calling it a cold is minimising it. A cold gives most people a snotty nose and maybe a chest infection. This has killed a few people I know and none of them were anywhere near death's door. I also know younger, healthier, fitter people who had a rough time with your "cold" and took a while to recover. So go away with your sarcastic,offensive "colds".

pueblo

badger54 wrote: »

Well done Captain Pedantic, you got me.

I don't see any point in engaging in this type of back and forth. Try to engage positively. Much more interesting and productive for everyone.

I did get you, but that's fine, not many people realise there was a global pandemic in 2009. Also, correcting a point of fact is not being pedantic.


Interesting that you ask me to engage positively while at the same time calling me names. Can I call you Captain Ironic?

FintanMcluskey

JRant wrote: »

Pop up test centres or not we're are not going to drop below level 5 till the end of May at the earliest. They'll open construction and shift the travel limit while proclaiming they are lifting restrictions.

Do you think they will relax restrictions based on the lower positivity rate?

FintanMcluskey

the kelt wrote: »

So since February there’s been a 40% - 50% increase of cases in young children but only a fraction has to do with schools going back!!!

Do people out there genuinely swallow this bull**** now at this stage?

The main remit them and the government have is to keep schools open, pupils go back to school and cases go up but of course nothing to do with the decision of schools opening again, nah let’s find something else to blame!

The lack of a plan and this type of rhetoric that’s pissing people off. Just admit it that schools are back and cases are up, we all know it and the vast majority myself included actually feel it’s a trade off that’s required.

It’s this bull**** approach and the examples being made of old women on live tv for making mistakes that needs to stop. And then they wonder why people are not following restrictions anymore? Do they have a single person amongst them who has any qualifications in human behaviour analysis for example? It’s not rocket science, keep treating people like idiots on live tv and they ain’t going to follow ye anymore!!

NPHET have a critical role, the critical role in all this which needs to be maintained but at this stage they need to be taken off the stage.

The only thing the new test centres will achieve is closing the schools.

Tork

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

You do realise the cold kills people

You going to stand in front of the people who lost loved ones to the cold and claim it’s only a snotty nose

Yes I am aware that a cold can lead on to complications that hospitalise and kill people. I also know that a the common cold is a coronavirus.

Anyway, I've finished my breakfast and I'm going to start work now. Enjoy your day of social justice warrior-ing

the kelt

the kelt wrote: »

So since February there’s been a 40% - 50% increase of cases in young children but only a fraction has to do with schools going back!!!

Do people out there genuinely swallow this bull**** now at this stage?

The main remit them and the government have is to keep schools open, pupils go back to school and cases go up but of course nothing to do with the decision of schools opening again, nah let’s find something else to blame!

The lack of a plan and this type of rhetoric that’s pissing people off. Just admit it that schools are back and cases are up, we all know it and the vast majority myself included actually feel it’s a trade off that’s required.

It’s this bull**** approach and the examples being made of old women on live tv for making mistakes that needs to stop. And then they wonder why people are not following restrictions anymore? Do they have a single person amongst them who has any qualifications in human behaviour analysis for example? It’s not rocket science, keep treating people like idiots on live tv and they ain’t going to follow ye anymore!!

NPHET have a critical role, the critical role in all this which needs to be maintained but at this stage they need to be taken off the stage.

When kids are home with nowhere to go do parents get them tested with mild symptoms?
When kids are going to school, and have mild symptoms do parents get them tested?
Herein lies the difference. Was the same in September - prior to September children were getting tested at a fraction of the rate of adults. From September it trended to the mean. Same in March

JRant

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Do you think they will relax restrictions based on the lower positivity rate?

Honestly, I don't see it happening. They are looking at the rest of europe getting the wave we just came out of and are crapping the bed. I still have hope that we'll see a big drop in restrictions come end of May but to borrow a phrase it's in a precarious position in my mind. To me, it seems that NPHET will want to see up to 80% fully vaccinated before they recommend anything approaching what we would call normality.

Multipass

PintOfView wrote: »

In the medium to long term I agree, we're going to have to live with it.
However, with vaccines in the process of being rolled out, it would seem foolish to now snatch defeat from the jaws of victory by dropping our guard.

Surely we can hold on for another couple of months, till the vulnerable and elderly are all vaccinated.
At that stage we could probably tolerate a degree of spread without too much risk to either the health service or the majority who catch it.

At this stage why not get everyone vulnerable to cocoon - the nursing homes are done, they couldn’t cocoon. Everyone else could stay inside, with the billions saved by ending lockdown they could use a tiny portion of the money to send out vaccinators to their homes. And with the rest of the money saved they could improve the damn health service to really help the vulnerable.

Sobit1964

We can reopen hospitality - but we should consider the nose mask and make it mandatory while people eat and drink. :eek:

FintanMcluskey

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

The only thing the new test centres will achieve is closing the schools.

If testing of 1700 otherwise healthy people yesterday finds enough cases to close the schools it would suggest there is a massive problem. It wont though

Morries Wigs

worst poll ever

TheMilkyPirate

I find it mad that the schools have just reopened after being closed for so long and now they're heading off on a two week Easter break. Maybe work through the break and catch up? No?

All I heard on the radio was teachers saying they couldn't wait to get back in the classroom so I'm sure support would be high for this.

Klonker

the kelt wrote: »

So since February there’s been a 40% - 50% increase of cases in young children but only a fraction has to do with schools going back!!!

Do people out there genuinely swallow this bull**** now at this stage?

The main remit them and the government have is to keep schools open, pupils go back to school and cases go up but of course nothing to do with the decision of schools opening again, nah let’s find something else to blame!

The lack of a plan and this type of rhetoric that’s pissing people off. Just admit it that schools are back and cases are up, we all know it and the vast majority myself included actually feel it’s a trade off that’s required.

It’s this bull**** approach and the examples being made of old women on live tv for making mistakes that needs to stop. And then they wonder why people are not following restrictions anymore? Do they have a single person amongst them who has any qualifications in human behaviour analysis for example? It’s not rocket science, keep treating people like idiots on live tv and they ain’t going to follow ye anymore!!

NPHET have a critical role, the critical role in all this which needs to be maintained but at this stage they need to be taken off the stage.

Yeah, can they not just be honest with us. It would get more buy in. I think the majority don't want schools closed again but want to be told the truth that spread is increasing due to schools. Like, if it's not schools, how is the increase in the school going ages higher than all other age groups? If they are getting it from family members as suggested then wouldn't there be a similar increase in those ages too or even more?

They are throwing out confusing data that doesn't really make sense to prove schools have low transmission. Yet when restaurants were open and there was very little of transmission because of it they were very quick to call for them to close and just because they didn't have proof it was a large driver of spread they knew it was.

_Kaiser_

Klonker wrote: »

Yeah, can they not just be honest with us. It would get more buy in. I think the majority don't want schools closed again but want to be told the truth that spread is increasing due to schools. Like, if it's not schools, how is the increase in the school going ages higher than all other age groups? If they are getting it from family members as suggested then wouldn't there be a similar increase in those ages too or even more?

They are throwing out confusing data that doesn't really make sense to prove schools have low transmission. Yet when restaurants were open and there was very little of transmission because of it they were very quick to call for them to close and just because they didn't have proof it was a large driver of spread they knew it was.

I'll keep saying it...

Cases mean nothing except as a means to continue to stoke fear in people who are worried about it. Outcome of cases is the important metric.

Those outcomes remain overwhelmingly positive for the vast majority of cases as they have throughout, but some people will unfortunately get very sick and some will even die. That's genuinely sad, but it's also part of life.

Day by day now there's more reports of people struggling in the media - whether it's with other serious illness (like the poor woman on NT earlier with terminal cancer because of the failings of the health service), financial pressures (reports this week that some are having to forego food and heating because they can't afford it), mental stress etc, and the wider economy and debt is getting very worrying.

We can't keep asking people to hide away indoors to protect the failings of the HSE because ultimately that's all we're doing here at this point as we have for most of the last year.

batman_oh

Klonker wrote: »

Yeah, can they not just be honest with us. It would get more buy in. I think the majority don't want schools closed again but want to be told the truth that spread is increasing due to schools. Like, if it's not schools, how is the increase in the school going ages higher than all other age groups? If they are getting it from family members as suggested then wouldn't there be a similar increase in those ages too or even more?

They are throwing out confusing data that doesn't really make sense to prove schools have low transmission. Yet when restaurants were open and there was very little of transmission because of it they were very quick to call for them to close and just because they didn't have proof it was a large driver of spread they knew it was.

The worst part is not the bare faced lying about schools (Nolan claimed 90% of the cases in school aged children had nothing to do with schools), it's the fact that they blame everybody else on what is happening when schools are clearly driving the current stagnation/increase in figures. Every other age group has barely risen or fallen, and they are up something close to 50%. They then go on and lecture people and threaten them with more extensions of restrictions rather than just admitting that cases will rise when schools are open.

the kelt

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

The only thing the new test centres will achieve is closing the schools.

Conveniently enough no u16's are allowed for testing in the new test centers even if their parents give permission and bring them.

Surely seeing as this area seen one of the biggest increase to get a true view of the virus in the community you would be allowing them to be tested.

But it seems they dont want any more increases in that age group being identified because .....

timmyntc

the kelt wrote: »

Conveniently enough no u16's are allowed for testing in the new test centers even if their parents give permission and bring them.

Surely seeing as this area seen one of the biggest increase to get a true view of the virus in the community you would be allowing them to be tested.

But it seems they dont want any more increases in that age group being identified because .....

You cant go to those popup test centres if you have symptoms either
So its exclusively for asymptomatic people