Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

hynesie08

pjohnson wrote: »

Were those pubs already likely to close before covid?

Dice bar was dead in the water as soon as he made his austwitsch posts on Facebook, and at least one of the others was looking to get out of the trade.

hynesie08

ypres5 wrote: »

What about all the pubs, restaurants and cafes in the article who cited covid as their reason for closing? Clutch at those straws rather than cherry picking what suits you

Would opening for 2 weeks over paddy's day and shutting again have saved them?

ypres5

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

More pontificating nonsense

The finish line is long long way off as MM alluded Friday

No no fintan the finish line is right round the corner, some people here have driven themselves demented trying to create some narrative that the shackles will be magically thrown open in a matter of weeks, which runs contrary to every word out of the government's and nphets mouth

pjohnson

ypres5 wrote: »

Anything to back that up? Several of the pub owners specify the last year as being what caused them to close and I imagine they know their businesses better than you do.

So then they are very different to Debenhams who were on their knees and in administration before any pandemic.

Yet you seem to think its Covid that got Debenhams.

FintanMcluskey

ypres5 wrote: »

Anything to back that up? Several of the pub owners specify the last year as being what caused them to close and I imagine they know their businesses better than you do.

I think the train of thought is that if a business becomes insolvent after being forced to close for a year + it must have been a poor set up

ypres5

charlie14 wrote: »

Pubs restaurants and cafes open before Christmas really work out well :rolleyes:

What does christmas have to do with anything? I'm just pointing out the cost the measures have had on people's livelihoods irrespective of the industry they're in but I seem to have upset some of the usual suspects who are convinced that piling onto our national debt and turning the hse into the national covid service will have no negative impact, at least not on them.

hynesie08

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I think the train of thought is that if a business becomes insolvent after being forced to close for a year + it must have been a poor set up

No, if it was running at a loss for years before covid, summer 2020 wasn't going to save them..

pjohnson

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I think the train of thought is that if a business becomes insolvent after being forced to close for a year + it must have been a poor set up

Its seems Ypres thinks all business was in peak condition until covid :pac:

ypres5

pjohnson wrote: »

So then they are very different to Debenhams who were on their knees and in administration before any pandemic.

Yet you seem to think its Covid that got Debenhams.

I don't seem to think anything about Debenhams, I didn't specify Debenhams and I didn't write the article but if zooming in on Debenhams and putting words in my mouth helps prop up your own paper thin argument work away johnson

ypres5

pjohnson wrote: »

Its seems Ypres thinks all business was in peak condition until covid :pac:

Well forcefully closing them for months on end didn't do them any favours or do you need me to explain how microeconomics work?

LeakyLime

pjohnson wrote: »

Its seems Ypres thinks all business was in peak condition until covid :pac:

And you seem to be arguing that Covid hasn't had a negative affect on businesses. Bizarre.

drkpower

pjohnson wrote: »

Were those pubs already likely to close before covid?

Like, did they die with covid or from covid? Thats certainly worth investigating as you wouldn't want to draw conclusions and adopt policy based on the former, would we?

Beasty

Idbatterim wrote: »

Anyone here that isn't old or vulnerable, is a hypocrite if they are taking this blackmail vaccine and at same time, bitching and rightfully so, about these nphet and government clowns ! Loads of my mates have decided not to vaccine are, they are zero risky, healthy. Why would you pump your body with this dollar grabbing, risky vaccine... its lunacy...

You have already picked up a number of cards in this thread, but the message does not seem to get through. Hence you are now threadbanned for both your vaccine conspiracy stuff and your wider behaviour across these threads

charlie14

ypres5 wrote: »

What does christmas have to do with anything? I'm just pointing out the cost the measures have had on people's livelihoods irrespective of the industry they're in but I seem to have upset some of the usual suspects who are convinced that piling onto our national debt and turning the hse into the national covid service will have no negative impact, at least not on them.

I would have thought it simple enough. We opened up, and numbers shot up, so we went back into lockdown. Are you saying we should have just carried on regardless for the sake of those businesses you were on about ?

Penfailed

Idbatterim wrote: »

Anyone here that isn't old or vulnerable, is a hypocrite if they are taking this blackmail vaccine and at same time, bitching and rightfully so, about these nphet and government clowns ! Loads of my mates have decided not to vaccine are, they are zero risky, healthy. Why would you pump your body with this dollar grabbing, risky vaccine... its lunacy...

Are you just going to pop in to this thread every couple of days just to say the same thing about vaccines? This is the restrictions thread. Vaccine thread >>>

charlie14

drkpower wrote: »

Like, did they die with covid or from covid? Thats certainly worth investigating as you wouldn't want to draw conclusions and adopt policy based on the former, would we?

That whole die from Covid or with Covid has been pretty much put to bed with the Eurostat excess death data. Unless you believe the large excess deaths during the same period of the three waves was just coincidence or there was another killer virus doing the rounds at the same time that nobody noticed ?

charlie14

Penfailed wrote: »

Are you just going to pop in to this thread every couple of days just to say the same thing about vaccines? This is the restrictions thread. Vaccine thread >>>

He was just given his on restrictions here. I doubt he would survive for long on the vaccine thread either with his conspiracy theories.

ypres5

charlie14 wrote: »

I would have thought it simple enough. We opened up, and numbers shot up, so we went back into lockdown. Are you saying we should have just carried on regardless for the sake of those businesses you were on about ?

I never referred to reopening anything or keeping anything open, that's all you. What I was responding to was another poster telling everyone to quit whinging and that better days were ahead and all I did was introduce some harsh reality that thousands of jobs have been lost and thousands more are facing uncertain futures due to restrictions.

Stormyteacup

charlie14 wrote: »

That whole die from Covid or with Covid has been pretty much put to bed with the Eurostat excess death data. Unless you believe the large excess deaths during the same period of the three waves was just coincidence or there was another killer virus doing the rounds at the same time that nobody noticed ?

Hardly put to bed. There are large discrepancies in reported deaths from Covid and actual excess deaths during the period start March 2020 to end February 2021.

There are clear excess deaths in spikes during that period, but we are comparing that to years when spikes in death occurred in January and February, so that needs to be considered.

Just out of interest- what is the reason there are no excess deaths start jan 2020 to end December 2021? Honestly - if it transpires through 2021 that for two years that encompassed a pandemic the all-cause mortality was in line with what would be expected in normal times, then what’s the explanation?

charlie14

ypres5 wrote: »

I never referred to reopening anything or keeping anything open, that's all you. What I was responding to was another poster telling everyone to quit whinging and that better days were ahead and all I did was introduce some harsh reality that thousands of jobs have been lost and thousands more are facing uncertain futures due to restrictions.

Well I can see the other posters point.
What use is whinging about restrictions unless you have an alternative, or you somehow believe there should never have been any restrictions.

pjohnson

ypres5 wrote: »

I never referred to reopening anything or keeping anything open, that's all you. What I was responding to was another poster telling everyone to quit whinging and that better days were ahead and all I did was introduce some harsh reality that thousands of jobs have been lost and thousands more are facing uncertain futures due to restrictions.

And some that had nothing to do with restrictions to boost your numbers

ypres5

charlie14 wrote: »

Well I can see the other posters point.
What use is whinging about restrictions unless you have an alternative, or you somehow believe there should never have been any restrictions.

So people shouldn't have discussions on a discussion forum? Kind of renders the whole website redundant doesn't it?

Micky 32

Fergal Bowers :

“”There will be a time, in the not too distant future, when we will no longer have twice weekly briefings broadcast from NPHET. When daily case numbers will not have the same importance, when NIAC will put its focus on other matters, and when some of the doctors and scientists who have become household names during the pandemic will become less visible and tied up mostly in their day job.””

“”So this will all pass in time and we will look back from a different perspective. We certainly won’t call them the good old days of lockdown, but we will remember and take the lessons learned.””

Wouldn’t that be splendid??? :pac:

ypres5

pjohnson wrote: »

And some that had nothing to do with restrictions to boost your numbers

I didn't write the article and you're the one obsessed with dragging Debenhams into it, not me. Please try and keep up

Stormyteacup

ypres5 wrote: »

I didn't write the article and you're the one obsessed with dragging Debenhams into it, not me. Please try and keep up

Well if they keep banging on about Debenhams maybe people will so distracted as to believe that no one has lost their livelihood due to Covid restrictions.

CruelSummer

Absolutely thrilled to see so many people at the beaches of the West today, children joyously playing, parents topping up their vitamin D, recently vaccinated grandparents seeing their families after so long apart. Young people playing ball, just glorious.

drkpower

charlie14 wrote: »

That whole die from Covid or with Covid has been pretty much put to bed with the Eurostat excess death data. Unless you believe the large excess deaths during the same period of the three waves was just coincidence or there was another killer virus doing the rounds at the same time that nobody noticed ?

There is certainly debate on the granular detail but im willing to accept that excess deaths are up; are they up to the extent that justifies the level of restrictions implemented since c May 2020; i dont believe so; are they up to the extent that justifies the level of restrictions we are under now; absolutely not.

Extraordinary suspension of fundamental liberties and imposition of harm (especially in late cancer diagnoses, screening) requires a proportionate threat; any proportionality that did exist (and in certainly did last Spring) is long gone.

charlie14

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Hardly put to bed. There are large discrepancies in reported deaths from Covid and actual excess deaths during the period start March 2020 to end February 2021.

There are clear excess deaths in spikes during that period, but we are comparing that to years when spikes in death occurred in January and February, so that needs to be considered.

Just out of interest- what is the reason there are no excess deaths start jan 2020 to end December 2021? Honestly - if it transpires through 2021 that for two years that encompassed a pandemic the all-cause mortality was in line with what would be expected in normal times, then what’s the explanation?

Why would there be any records of death let alone excess deaths for from the start of January 2020 to the end of December 2021 ? Today is the 24th.April 2021.

I really have no idea what point you are making on all cause mortality for2021 and 2022 other than perhaps you believe that deaths for 2020 were within the normal range.
They were not and that is what the Eurostat figures show. The monthly death percentages above or below the monthly normal.
The monthly excess deaths were all above the normal range for the months when there were Covid waves. It`s just not feasible that those deaths were due to anything other than Covid.

Jimi H

Any idea when we think hairdressers/barbers will open?

CruelSummer

charlie14 wrote: »

Well I can see the other posters point.
What use is whinging about restrictions unless you have an alternative, or you somehow believe there should never have been any restrictions.

I think most people believe some measures were necessary. However Ireland certainly overdid level 5. We were very slow to reopen last summer & seem to be acting like we’re being dragged kicking and screaming into the green digital cert idea for this summer. It’s a bad image to give off to our international colleagues of whom Ireland is very dependent on.
It’s a no brainer to sign up to the digital cert, helps our economy & that of the EU. All depends on case numbers in Europe of course, but Spain, Greek Islands, Germany are motoring ahead of Ireland in vaccine roll out currently.

charlie14

drkpower wrote: »

There is certainly debate on the granular detail but im willing to accept that excess deaths are up; are they up to the extent that justifies the level of restrictions implemented since c May 2020; i dont believe so; are they up to the extent that justifies the level of restrictions we are under now; absolutely not.

Extraordinary suspension of fundamental liberties and imposition of harm (especially in late cancer diagnoses, screening) requires a proportionate threat; any proportionality that did exist (and in certainly did last Spring) is long gone.

Well I can tell you that where their was a European country with light touch restrictions their excess deaths compared to the previous year was over 10% and for the previous 5 year average it was 7%. There present level of deaths due to this 2nd and 3rd wave are double what they were for their 1st in the Spring so what you believe is at variance with the figures i`m afraid.

I must have answered this at least a hundred times by now. How can people
still believe you can mix often very vulnerable patients, with those that have a viral infection that kills in a hospital setting and somehow expect all will be just grand. Especially when hospitals and I.C.U.s are practically over-run with patients with a viral infection

charlie14

ypres5 wrote: »

So people shouldn't have discussions on a discussion forum? Kind of renders the whole website redundant doesn't it?

It`s not much of a discussion if you have someone ranting and raving about something if they have no alternatives now is it ?

Windmill100000

ypres5 wrote: »

https://www.dublinlive.ie/whats-on/shopping/ireland-lockdown-13-popular-dublin-20458360

Tell that to the lads here who's businesses and livelihoods are down the drain along with thousands of others. I'm sure you'll be telling us all about those sunny better times when the bill arrives although judging by the condescending tone of your post I guess you feel that's everyone else's problem.

So we aren't allowed to be excited at the prospect of opening up? Good luck with pushing that mantra.

The general mood I have seen over the last few weeks is one of optimism and an end in sight. If you want to bang on about the payback, which we are all aware of, go ahead. But don't expect everyone to revel in your doom and gloom mentality.

Yes, people have lost jobs and businesses, no one can deny that - just have they have done in recessions past. We can have empathy but also be happy that life is getting back to a semblance of normality for most people.

ypres5

Windmill100000 wrote: »

So we aren't allowed to be excited at the prospect of opening up? Good luck with pushing that mantra.

The general mood I have seen over the last few weeks is one of optimism and an end in sight. If you want to bang on about the payback, which we are all aware of, go ahead. But don't expect everyone to revel in your doom and gloom mentality.

Yes, people have lost jobs and businesses, no one can deny that - just have they have done in recessions past. We can have empathy but also be happy that life is getting back to a semblance of normality for most people.

To borrow this earlier quote posted by Fintan, what part of Martin's recent comments hint at an 'end in sight?' and also a semblance of normality isn't the same as normality itself, something the government have been very silent on.

At the end of 2021 I can. There will be a bit of nervousness around the Autumn and Winter because I believe there's a seasonality attached to this virus.

"I think we need to tread a bit over water over the winter but I do think that we can open up over time. I think we need to do it cautiously.

charlie14

CruelSummer wrote: »

I think most people believe some measures were necessary. However Ireland certainly overdid level 5. We were very slow to reopen last summer & seem to be acting like we’re being dragged kicking and screaming into the green digital cert idea for this summer. It’s a bad image to give off to our international colleagues of whom Ireland is very dependent on.
It’s a no brainer to sign up to the digital cert, helps our economy & that of the EU. All depends on case numbers in Europe of course, but Spain, Greek Islands, Germany are motoring ahead of Ireland in vaccine roll out currently.

Don`t get me wrong, I`m all in favour of a green digital certificate, but it has to be based on clear vaccination criteria and enforcement.
You remember the green cert countries last year in Europe where tourists were scrambling to get out of just days after they arrived for a few weeks break when numbers went through the roof ?
I`m in favour of a green cert, but not that kind of green cert.

castletownman

It's gas.

My five-month old nephew over in London has been in more beer gardens in his lifetime than me.

My GF's dog can get groomed, whereas I haven't got a hair-cut since early December.

Windmill100000

ypres5 wrote: »

To borrow this earlier quote posted by Fintan, what part of Martin's recent comments hint at an 'end in sight?' and also a semblance of normality isn't the same as normality itself, something the government have been very silent on.

At the end of 2021 I can. There will be a bit of nervousness around the Autumn and Winter because I believe there's a seasonality attached to this virus.

"I think we need to tread a bit over water over the winter but I do think that we can open up over time. I think we need to do it cautiously.

Of course we will open up in time. But that depends on the continued vaccine rollout and I imagine a close eye being kept on the UK. But so far, it's looking good! I'm far more optimistic than at any point during this lockdown and am not going to feel bad or otherwise for feeling that way, and nor should anyone.

CruelSummer

charlie14 wrote: »

Don`t get me wrong, I`m all in favour of a green digital certificate, but it has to be based on clear vaccination criteria and enforcement.
You remember the green cert countries last year in Europe where tourists were scrambling to get out of just days after they arrived for a few weeks break when numbers went through the roof ?
I`m in favour of a green cert, but not that kind of green cert.

Agreed, last summer’s debacle was a mess. Hopefully with the EU attempting to accelerate the vaccination programme for the next 3 months, and providing clear criteria well in advance this summer, things will run more smoothly.
I also think the Government’s promotion of staycations will go down equally well as many may not want the hassle of international travel until things have settled further.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/indoor-dining-and-new-incentive-scheme-in-plan-to-get-country-spending-at-home-rather-than-holidays-abroad-40350088.html

The demonisation of travel and other sectors of society needs to stop and be replaced with more pragmatic approaches in the future.

charlie14

CruelSummer wrote: »

Agreed, last summer’s debacle was a mess. Hopefully with the EU attempting to accelerate the vaccination programme for the next 3 months, and providing clear criteria well in advance this summer, things will run more smoothly.
I also think the Government’s promotion of staycations will go down equally well as many may not want the hassle of international travel until things have settled further.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/indoor-dining-and-new-incentive-scheme-in-plan-to-get-country-spending-at-home-rather-than-holidays-abroad-40350088.html

The demonisation of travel and other sectors of society needs to stop and be replaced with more pragmatic approaches in the future.

Tbh I have lost a bit of faith in European countries doing any better with this green cert than they did with last Summer`s. The whole UEFA thing didn`t fill me with a lot of confidence.

ypres5

Windmill100000 wrote: »

Of course we will open up in time. But that depends on the continued vaccine rollout and I imagine a close eye being kept on the UK. But so far, it's looking good! I'm far more optimistic than at any point during this lockdown and am not going to feel bad or otherwise for feeling that way, and nor should anyone.

I want to be hopeful to but I find it hard to ignore the non committal, feeble language of the government when it comes to a definitive end to this

Windmill100000

ypres5 wrote: »

I want to be hopeful to but I find it hard to ignore the non committal, feeble language of the government when it comes to a definitive end to this

It's your choice what you choose to believe. My personal view is that they are trying to keep people from going mad while the vaccine rollout is still happening. If they were to say in three weeks shops will reopen people will let the guard down and no one wants a rise in cases at this point.

I don't need a definitive date to know which way we are heading. Things are starting to relax. We are heading the right way.

PTH2009

for me personally why would i bother spending money on a staycation if no pubs or anything are open. Last December a few of us stayed a night in a complex but still got in a few pints in the club there (with our meal)and with the winter weather it was grand to have a few cans back in the lodge but summers a different story.

Its obv a different situation for families.

hynesie08

castletownman wrote: »

It's gas.

My five-month old nephew over in London has been in more beer gardens in his lifetime than me.

My GF's dog can get groomed, whereas I haven't got a hair-cut since early December.

I feel like this might be a slight exaggeration.

castletownman

hynesie08 wrote: »

I feel like this might be a slight exaggeration.

Sadly its not. He was born at Christmas, and his mammy has had him in tow when visiting friends. They have met in beer gardens and tennis clubs for coffee or whatever since places started opening up in London last week.

So technically, during his short time on earth so far, he has visited more beer gardens than I have in that time-frame considering they have all been closed over here since before Christmas

PTH2009

castletownman wrote: »

Sadly its not. He was born at Christmas, and his mammy has had him in tow when visiting friends. They have met in beer gardens and tennis clubs for coffee or whatever since places started opening up in London last week.

So technically, during his short time on earth so far, he has visited more beer gardens than I have in that time-frame considering they have all been closed over here since before Christmas

Lucky bugger

stargazer 68

PTH2009 wrote: »

Lucky bugger

Lol. Just watching a movie and it's based during the blitz in London during the war. Hubbie has just said 'even during the fcking war they are in the pub'

LessOutragePlz

https://twitter.com/IrlagainstFash/status/1386035255728091144?s=20

Great to see people out enjoying themselves in Salthill today.

The poster is still scaremongering even when everyone knows that being outdoors is one of the safest places that you can be.

Penfailed

PTH2009 wrote: »

for me personally why would i bother spending money on a staycation if no pubs or anything are open. Last December a few of us stayed a night in a complex but still got in a few pints in the club there (with our meal)and with the winter weather it was grand to have a few cans back in the lodge but summers a different story.

Its obv a different situation for families.

The thing is, no one knows whether they'll be open or not. They might be. They might not be.

LessOutragePlz

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

https://twitter.com/IrlagainstFash/status/1386035255728091144?s=20

Great to see people out enjoying themselves in Salthill today.

The brazen audacity of them, having the temerity to "live" their lives and enjoy the craic of a fine day. Tony will be licking his lips watching those scenes, all the excuse he needs to lock us away at least another month. And not a single member of government to contradict him. The script writes itself.

Those who are terrified of the great outdoors are cordially welcome to cower at home and leave the rest of us alone.

Sharpyshoot

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

https://twitter.com/IrlagainstFash/status/1386035255728091144?s=20

Great to see people out enjoying themselves in Salthill today.

The poster is still scaremongering even when everyone knows that being outdoors is one of the safest places that you can be.

Crammed ramming your tool off some one else on a packed beach will spread the virus.