Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

gozunda

GiftofGab wrote: »

So we were initially told that we didn't want to hospitals over run so we needed a lockdown to flatten the curve. Then told wait until we get the most vulnerable vaccinated. Here we are now with less than 200 people in hospital with Covid, 86 hospitals in the country leaving us with on average less than 2.3 people per hospital. Plus the most vulnerable received their vaccination.
Seriously what the f**k is going on. Open your eyes ans open the damn country and stop failing the future generation.

Well that's the thing we didn't have any vaccines when this **** started and now we do.

But atm the "most vulnerable" have not all been vaccinated. Those aged 16-69 and at high risk from infection are still being vaccinated. As are the remaining 70+ and others. And thats just the first dose of vaccine we're talking about.

What would you have us do?

Just throw everything out the window even though we are managing to keep the infection rate low and especially now have a way out of this mess?

And we know that 50% of the adult population vaccinated is the current min level to provide for opening up - as seen in the UK, Israel

Despite that we've already started rolling back restrictions here because of our low infection rate - though I don't ever remember being told that when the vulnerable were vaccinated we could let it rip?

Yeah but seriously let's ask what the fuq is going on eh?

charlie14

JRant wrote: »

Well, we've been told we were only a few weeks behind the UK in terms of vaccinations so let's see what this "roadmap" looks like later in the week. There's a real possibility we'll be 3/4 months behind their opening plans.

The main interest here by some appears to be on pubs and restaurants opening.
The U.K. lifted restrictions on both for outdoor service only with social distancing on the 12th. April. On that date the U.K. vaccination levels were 49.5% single dose, 11.5% fully vaccinated.

If, as appears you favour opening up in stages similar to how the U.K. has, then I assume it on the same basis ?

suicide_circus

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40274552.html

Here we go boys...

bear1

gozunda wrote: »

Well that's the thing we didn't have any vaccines when this **** started and now we do.

But atm the "most vulnerable" have not all been vaccinated. Those aged 16-69 and at high risk from infection are still being vaccinated. As are the remaining 70+ and others. And thats just the first dose of vaccine we're talking about.

What would you have us do?

Just throw everything out the window even though we are managing to keep the infection rate low and especially now have a way out of this mess?

And we know that 50% of the adult population vaccinated is the current min level to provide for opening up - as seen in the UK, Israel

Despite that we've already started rolling back restrictions here because of our low infection rate - though I don't ever remember being told that when the vulnerable were vaccinated we could let it rip?

Yeah but seriously let's ask what the fuq is going on eh?

Being allowed to go the zoo? Doesn't really mean much to those that don't live in Dublin does it?
50 at a funeral but weddings no? Logic?
Comparing us to Israel and the UK is pointless as they got their **** together much earlier.
We've politicians that day in day out change their minds and rely on what one group says.
It's an embarrassment.

cnocbui

I want relaxation of restrictions now!

4 planes; it's been a long time since I last saw 4 planes overhead at one time.

bear1

suicide_circus wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40274552.html

Here we go boys...

I'd love to know how they will do that when they've closed off tourism. A badly needed source of income I imagine.. eejits

bear1

cnocbui wrote: »

I want relaxation of restrictions now!

4 planes; it's been a long time since I last saw 4 planes overhead at one time.

And none of them originated in Ireland probably

suicide_circus

cnocbui wrote: »

I want relaxation of restrictions now!

4 planes; it's been a long time since I last saw 4 planes overhead at one time.

Did you go for a walk on your desktop?

JRant

gozunda wrote: »

Certainly I agree management could have been better. Giving in to popular demand for relaxation of restrictions for the Christmas period was a mistake. Though I'm not sure Nphet and the government were in agreement for all of that tbf.

That said another case study - Germany who also who went into lockdown in early December and who gave no exemption over Christmas ended up with a significant rise in the rate of infection once they started to ease back on their restrictions in March.

It seems its not an easy virus to try and negotiate with.

People needed shops to be open though. Shutting them for 6 weeks just before Christmas was bloody daft.

That's what happens in other countries though. They have a dynamic system, cases drop and restrictions are eased, cases rise and restrictions are increased. What they don't have is nearly 6 out of the last 7 months in lockdown. Right now, at this very minute, the restrictions on our lives are in no way proportional to the actual situation we are in. That's a major problem for me. The types of restrictions we are currently under should require an extraordinary amount of proof to justify them. That is not the case right now. We have a government actually telling us they don't want to go back into lockdown so we stay in lockdown until they are "sure", whatever the hell that means. We appear to be in an incredible situation whereby extraordinary proof is required to gain our freedoms back.

And please, for the love of god, don't respond with "but we are in a global pandemic" because I know that already.

FintanMcluskey

suicide_circus wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40274552.html

Here we go boys...

Many of us did predict this happening

You can’t suspend the economic prospects of a nation indefinitely like Ireland did and plan to continue doing so

€12bn in Covid emergency funding set aside for 2021 will run out by the end of June, resulting in “many more billions” being needed to protect the economy.

It’s too late now for Ireland, by the end of June Tony will insist on many businesses remaining closed

charlie14

bear1 wrote: »

Being allowed to go the zoo? Doesn't really mean much to those that don't live in Dublin does it?
50 at a funeral but weddings no? Logic?
Comparing us to Israel and the UK is pointless as they got their **** together much earlier.
We've politicians that day in day out change their minds and rely on what one group says.
It's an embarrassment.

The U.K. are hardly a great example of a country that handled this pandemic well.
The have one of the highest death rates in the world due to Covid.
They only got their **** together through vaccination, and for all intents and purposes that has been due to a vaccine mainly U.K owned manufacturing company that broke every delivery date with every country other than the U.K.

Bit cynical

cnocbui wrote: »

I want relaxation of restrictions now!

4 planes; it's been a long time since I last saw 4 planes overhead at one time.

It's like that scene from the zombie film 28 Days Later where the character sees a contrail in the air and realises that there is civilisation going on in other countries.

bear1

charlie14 wrote: »

The U.K. are hardly a great example of a country that handled this pandemic well.
The have one of the highest death rates in the world due to Covid.
They only got their **** together through vaccination, and for all intents and purposes that has been due to a vaccine mainly U.K owned manufacturing company that broke every delivery date with every country other than the U.K.

I didn't say they were, but they managed to get themselves opened up far quicker than anyone else.
Israel didn't have its own vaccine and yet they still managed to be quicker.

gozunda

JRant wrote: »

People needed shops to be open though. Shutting them for 6 weeks just before Christmas was bloody daft.

That's what happens in other countries though. They have a dynamic system, cases drop and restrictions are eased, cases rise and restrictions are increased. What they don't have is nearly 6 out of the last 7 months in lockdown. Right now, at this very minute, the restrictions on our lives are in no way proportional to the actual situation we are in. That's a major problem for me. The types of restrictions we are currently under should require an extraordinary amount of proof to justify them. That is not the case right now. We have a government actually telling us they don't want to go back into lockdown so we stay in lockdown until they are "sure", whatever the hell that means. We appear to be in an incredible situation whereby extraordinary proof is required to gain our freedoms back.

And please, for the love of god, don't respond with "but we are in a global pandemic" because I know that already.

Shops maybe but all the other stuff? And thats the point. Germany has had a lockdown over the same time period us - going on for 6 months (and no I'm not going into a blow by blow - they had this - we didn't have that boloxology.) They didn't open up for Christmas. Tried rolling stuff back in March and ended up with rapidly rising Infection rates. Now they are back to square one.
They haven't been dynamic at all.

The reason for the restrictions are simple. To keep down the rate of infection whilst we roll out our vaccination programme. And yes restrictions are nothing like what they were in January despite being under the banner of 'level 5'

In short the goals atm are to Keep the vaccinations going and keep the rate of infection rate low. Everything else is a bonus imho.

FlubberJones

suicide_circus wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40274552.html

Here we go boys...

As we move out of pandemic mode we will be quickly shunted into "we're broke" mode with spending reduced and taxes increased.... this ****ing country....

namloc1980

gozunda wrote: »

Shops maybe but all the other stuff? And thats the point. Germany has had a lockdown over the same time period us - going on for 6 months (and no I'm not going into a blow by blow - they had this - we didn't have that boloxology.) They didn't open up for Christmas. Tried rolling stuff back in March and ended up with rapidly rising Infection rates. Now they are back to square one.

The reason for the restrictions are simple. To keep down the rate of infection whilst we roll out our vaccination programme. And yes restrictions are nothing like what they were in January despite being under the banner of 'level 5'

In short the goals atm are to Keep the vaccinations going and keep the rate of infection rate low. Everything else is a bonus imho.

Those aren't goals. Those should be the means to get to the goals which should be reopen the country, get tourism working again etc etc.

What you have laid out here is exactly the lack of a plan that has most of the country very frustrated. "Keep vaccinating, keep infections low" can't be the goals, otherwise we will never get out of this.

FintanMcluskey

FlubberJones wrote: »

As we move out of pandemic mode we will be quickly shunted into "we're broke" mode with spending reduced and taxes increased.... this ****ing country....

The subsequent lack of funding for public healthcare and impending recruitment freezes and pay cuts for health service staff will hopefully make some see the light.

Lockdown caused this in Ireland, not Covid

charlie14

bear1 wrote: »

I didn't say they were, but they managed to get themselves opened up far quicker than anyone else.
Israel didn't have its own vaccine and yet they still managed to be quicker.

The U.K. managed to open up quicker due to imo (and also it seems that of the E.U. who are taking them to court), the rather dodgy dealings of one pharmaceutical company.

Do you actually know how Israel managed to to be quicker ?
If you don`t check out their deal with Pfizer of 10M vaccines delivered in batches of 400,00- 700,000 weekly.

PTH2009

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

The subsequent lack of funding for public healthcare and impending recruitment freezes and pay cuts for health service staff will hopefully make some see the light.

Lockdown caused this in Ireland, not Covid

NPHET will once again remind us 'it was the virus's fault not ours'

FintanMcluskey

PTH2009 wrote: »

NPHET will once again remind us 'it was the virus's fault not ours'

The paradox with the restrictions is that the damage will only become evident when the last restriction lifts

A full vaccination programme isn’t the end, it’s only then the extent of the damage is revealed from an economic and healthcare point of view

PTH2009

I'll have to reframe from putting my foot through the TV when MM makes his condescending speech

JRant

gozunda wrote: »

Shops maybe but all the other stuff? And thats the point. Germany has had a lockdown over the same time period us - going on for 6 months (and no I'm not going into a blow by blow - they had this - we didn't have that boloxology.) They didn't open up for Christmas. Tried rolling stuff back in March and ended up with rapidly rising Infection rates. Now they are back to square one.
They haven't been dynamic at all.

The reason for the restrictions are simple. To keep down the rate of infection whilst we roll out our vaccination programme. And yes restrictions are nothing like what they were in January despite being under the banner of 'level 5'

In short the goals atm are to Keep the vaccinations going and keep the rate of infection rate low. Everything else is a bonus imho.

Huh?
Bar schools and construction slowly opening over a couple of months that was it until today when a very limited range of outdoor sports are allowed. You may class that as easing of restrictions, I don't though.

We have no goals, that is very clear. What is the end goal here? Is it level 2 indefinitely or a complete return to normality once 70%+ are vaccinated? We have no idea at all.

FintanMcluskey

PTH2009 wrote: »

I'll have to reframe from putting my foot through the TV when MM makes his condescending speech

Remember that his pension and benefits will be secure for the rest of his days

And don’t forget this little gem when we had been in lockdown for a few months and case numbers were about 15 per day

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/we-are-worried-taoiseach-warn-plans-to-reopen-all-pubs-on-july-20th-may-be-delayed-1.4297327%3fmode=amp

“As you know the full opening was to take place on July 20th … it could be delayed if they don’t behave -–we will get advice from the public health officials but we are worried about it,”

ypres5

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

The paradox with the restrictions is that the damage will only become evident when the last restriction lifts

A full vaccination programme isn’t the end, it’s only then the extent of the damage is revealed from an economic and healthcare point of view

Between nphet, the government and the hse the next 5 years will be like the arse covering olympics between all the shirking of responsibility

PTH2009

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Remember that his pension and benefits will be secure for the rest of his days

And don’t forget this little gem when we had been in lockdown for a few months and case numbers were about 15 per day

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/we-are-worried-taoiseach-warn-plans-to-reopen-all-pubs-on-july-20th-may-be-delayed-1.4297327%3fmode=amp

It's like a teacher telling the class 'extra homework if your good'

Patriots died fighting for our freedom and 100+ years later this is what our leader is now

lawred2

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

The subsequent lack of funding for public healthcare and impending recruitment freezes and pay cuts for health service staff will hopefully make some see the light.

Lockdown caused this in Ireland, not Covid

and then what?

Boggles

JRant wrote: »

Huh?
Bar schools and construction slowly opening over a couple of months that was it until today when a very limited range of outdoor sports are allowed. You may class that as easing of restrictions, I don't though.

You don't class getting a 1 million plus children, plus all school staff, plus all child care back as easing of restrictions?

That is one cockeyed view of our current reality.

FintanMcluskey

lawred2 wrote: »

and then what?

Turn off the lights I suppose

Gona need to save money somehow

lawred2

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Turn off the lights I suppose

Gona need to save money somehow

I'd love to know what Irish people seeing the light would mean...

Not a lot I'd say

Bit of whinging and then a trip down to the voting booth to vote FF/FG again

the kelt

So essentially really the plan from listening to those defending the plan is two fold or contains 2 points

Keep vaccinating as much as possible until a certain number or percentage of vaccinations is reached.

What is that percentage or number? No idea, some number off in to the future when a certain percentage of the population may or may not have received their first vaccinations or maybe both depending on numbers as per below in point 2.

And

Keep restrictions in place for a length of time to get or keep case numbers and hospitalisations below a certain number whilst waiting on a certain number or percentage of vaccinations to take place neither of which we know, please see point 1 for reference.

Any idea of the numbers or length of time associated to those numbers? No idea some time off in to the future when some number is reached or kept below a certain number that we dont really know yet but will let you know as soon as we figure out the number and then therefore the timeline associated with that number which will of course be depending on the numbers involved in point 1 and point 2.

Oooook then.

Hey did you notice that Italy and a few other countries have started opening up a bit more? Its pointless to look at other countries and use them as a reference point, we need to stop looking at what other countries are doing as each of those countries is totally different to ourselves.

Thats a really good point about not looking at other countries because i was looking at the mess that is in India at the moment but you're right totally different counties no point in looking at them, Phew! Oh India, whats happening in india could deffo happen here, definitely, we need to look at India closely!

PTH2009

If we had a better health system would we be reopening faster?

If that's the case that the public are not at fault

FlubberJones

Boggles wrote: »

You don't class getting a 1 million plus children, plus all school staff, plus all child care back as easing of restrictions?

That is one cockeyed view of our current reality.

Not from my perspective no, I have no children in school and none in child care... the restrictions are still the same.

growleaves

lawred2 wrote: »

and then what?

People have to learn to say no for the next time.

There is no positive politics any more, just catastrophising.

We're already starting on a path to dismantling industrialisation in the name of preventing a 'climate emergency'.

What a self-aware and judicious person can do is refuse to panic when presented with Youtube videos of extreme weather events.

Without any self-correcting negative feedback, we will be bouncing from one state of emergency to another.

Boggles

FlubberJones wrote: »

Not from my perspective no, I have no children in school and none in child care... the restrictions are still the same.

At a population level, you don't actually matter.

But restrictions have changed for you too, if you choose not exercise them as seems to be a theme in here, that is a personal choice.

Sobit1964

the kelt wrote: »

So essentially really the plan from listening to those defending the plan is two fold or contains 2 points

Keep vaccinating as much as possible until a certain number or percentage of vaccinations is reached.

What is that percentage or number? No idea, some number off in to the future when a certain percentage of the population may or may not have received their first vaccinations or maybe both depending on numbers as per below in point 2.

And

Keep restrictions in place for a length of time to get or keep case numbers and hospitalisations below a certain number whilst waiting on a certain number or percentage of vaccinations to take place neither of which we know, please see point 1 for reference.

Any idea of the numbers or length of time associated to those numbers? No idea some time off in to the future when some number is reached or kept below a certain number that we dont really know yet but will let you know as soon as we figure out the number and then therefore the timeline associated with that number which will of course be depending on the numbers involved in point 1 and point 2.

Oooook then.

Hey did you notice that Italy and a few other countries have started opening up a bit more? Its pointless to look at other countries and use them as a reference point, we need to stop looking at what other countries are doing as each of those countries is totally different to ourselves.

Thats a really good point about not looking at other countries because i was looking at the mess that is in India at the moment but you're right totally different counties no point in looking at them, Phew! Oh India, whats happening in india could deffo happen here, definitely, we need to look at India closely!

It smacks of 'Trust The Plan' that Qanon/HardcoreTrumper level of blind belief. It's not a good look for the blindly faithful.

Archeron

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Remember that his pension and benefits will be secure for the rest of his days

And don’t forget this little gem when we had been in lockdown for a few months and case numbers were about 15 per day

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/we-are-worried-taoiseach-warn-plans-to-reopen-all-pubs-on-july-20th-may-be-delayed-1.4297327%3fmode=amp

I'd love somebody to ask the lovely Michael who exactly "They" are. Does he mean the peasants that should just shut up and do as they are told? Jaysus that man has the charisma and likeability of a bag of dog poo hanging in a tree.

JRant

Boggles wrote: »

You don't class getting a 1 million plus children, plus all school staff, plus all child care back as easing of restrictions?

That is one cockeyed view of our current reality.

Schools are safe, both NPHET and the government have clearly stated this on many occasions. Why were they closed at all? That doesn't seem to be following any logical pattern at all. Were they closed down for the craic or are there actually issues with having schools open? One of these is true but the NPHET science keeps telling us they are safe so which one is it?

Hellrazer

Tonys latest letter to Donnelly up now.

https://www.gov.ie/en/collection/ba4aa0-letters-from-the-cmo-to-the-minister-for-health/

Its not as negative as I thought it would be - especially coming from Tony!!!

Page 3 is the usual "next 2 weeks are crucial" bull**** though!!!

Boggles

JRant wrote: »

Schools are safe, both NPHET and the government have clearly stated this on many occasions. Why were they closed at all? That doesn't seem to be following any logical pattern at all. Were they closed down for the craic or are there actually issues with having schools open? One of these is true but the NPHET science keeps telling us they are safe so which one is it?

Schools can function as long as the level of virus in the community is at low levels, I'm pretty sure that was the official stance from NPHET.

You would want to be a dangerous simpleton to believe schools are 100% "safe".

It's why France and Germany have closed them, unless they did it for the craic.

Who knows.

Sharpyshoot

Hellrazer wrote: »

Tonys latest letter to Donnelly up now.

https://www.gov.ie/en/collection/ba4aa0-letters-from-the-cmo-to-the-minister-for-health/

Its not as negative as I thought it would be - especially coming from Tony!!!

Page 3 is the usual "next 2 weeks are crucial" bull**** though!!!

Tony is in line for Sainthood.

gozunda

namloc1980 wrote: »

Those aren't goals. Those should be the means to get to the goals which should be reopen the country, get tourism working again etc etc.

What you have laid out here is exactly the lack of a plan that has most of the country very frustrated. "Keep vaccinating, keep infections low" can't be the goals, otherwisewe will never get out of this.

Yes they are goals. Because that's exactly what will get tourism working again etc etc. You can have as many provisional dates for tourism etc but if a countries rate of infection is out control - no one is going to come visit.

Eh how do you figure that? Once we get people vaccinated currently (50% total adult population min est) then like UK and elsewhere we're on the flip side. That and likley there will be booster vaccines when needs be but that's not going to stop people being fully vaccinated in the first place

groovyg

Anyone know when the libraries are reopening? Are the staff that worked in libraries redeployed elsewhere? I can’t get over they are still closed four months in, schools reopened in March. Last Summer they offered a click and collect service this time nothing.

Terence Rattigan

Hellrazer wrote: »

Tonys latest letter to Donnelly up now.

https://www.gov.ie/en/collection/ba4aa0-letters-from-the-cmo-to-the-minister-for-health/

Its not as negative as I thought it would be - especially coming from Tony!!!

Page 3 is the usual "next 2 weeks are crucial" bull**** though!!!

Looks like it was signed by someone called Joey Gee, who is this person?

Stormyteacup

Hellrazer wrote: »

Tonys latest letter to Donnelly up now.

https://www.gov.ie/en/collection/ba4aa0-letters-from-the-cmo-to-the-minister-for-health/

Its not as negative as I thought it would be - especially coming from Tony!!!

Page 3 is the usual "next 2 weeks are crucial" bull**** though!!!

Two and a half pages of regurgitating what’s in the HSPC reports, one page on LTRC visits and a half page general summary.

Full marks for using the figure of 617 cases reported on 22nd April, which included a backlog, to point to the precarious position we are in. Why pick out that date? I thought they used 5 day, 7 day or 14 day averages - depending on which one reinforced the message best?

Corholio

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Two and a half pages of regurgitating what’s in the HSPC reports, one page on LTRC visits and a half page general summary.

Full marks for using the figure of 617 cases reported on 22nd April, which included a backlog, to point to the precarious position we are in. Why pick out that date? I thought they used 5 day, 7 day or 14 day averages - depending on which one reinforced the message best?

Noticed that as well, I have rarely mentioned NPHET as I believe the government are ultimately responsible for decisions, but picking that date was bizarre and unnecessarily deceiving figures wise, especially when no day has gone near that since.

I often think this is towards those who get in a flutter over a 100 etc case increase regardless of the figures either side of these days in the average.

normanoffside

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Remember that his pension and benefits will be secure for the rest of his days

And don’t forget this little gem when we had been in lockdown for a few months and case numbers were about 15 per day

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/we-are-worried-taoiseach-warn-plans-to-reopen-all-pubs-on-july-20th-may-be-delayed-1.4297327%3fmode=amp

This culture we have developed of taking videos of outdoor gatherings and posting them on social media is the worst thing about this last year.
It has caused a lot of our over the top restrictions as well as a culture of curtain twitching and social media outrage which has driven government policy.

I happened to overhear Radio 1 on Sunday (on in the background) and all morning they were talking about the 'disgraceful scenes' from Salthill like it had a world war 3 level of importance.

Corholio

normanoffside wrote: »

This culture we have developed of taking videos of outdoor gatherings and posting them on social media is the worst thing about this last year.
It has caused a lot of our over the top restrictions as well as a culture of curtain twitching and social media outrage which has driven government policy.

I happened to overhear Radio 1 on Sunday (on in the background) and all morning they were talking about the 'disgraceful scenes' from Salthill like it had a world war 3 level of importance.

Also the videoing and photographing people in airports at the start of the year was practically the embryo of MHQ. That along with the amateur park photographers caused a nasty sap to ooze out from a lot of people here.

Silentcorner

normanoffside wrote: »

This culture we have developed of taking videos of outdoor gatherings and posting them on social media is the worst thing about this last year.
It has caused a lot of our over the top restrictions as well as a culture of curtain twitching and social media outrage which has driven government policy.

I happened to overhear Radio 1 on Sunday (on in the background) and all morning they were talking about the 'disgraceful scenes' from Salthill like it had a world war 3 level of importance.

It's something that will live long in the memory, the shaming of young people doing what young people do...after they have had every social outlet, work and college experience taken from them for a virus they won't even feel more often than not.

The bed wetters in RTE's major problem is that no one is listening to them anymore if the scenes I'm sure we are all witnessing all over the country are anything to go by...it's been like a festival in towns and city centre's around the country...no one is remotely afraid of the allegedly deadly new variant they've been peddling since February.

brickster69

New Zealand having fun. Good on them.

https://twitter.com/Mediavenir/status/1386273790422880257

SnuggyBear

PTH2009 wrote: »

I'll have to reframe from putting my foot through the TV when MM makes his condescending speech

You are better off not looking at it. I've been ignoring all covid news and this board for a couple of weeks. I'm basically pretending covid doesn't exist as much as possible. I'm much happier especially with the nice weather.