Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Penfailed

Corholio wrote: »

I guess he's saying that other bars and restaurants probably won't and that would (rightly) make them angry at that.

For sure.

Penfailed

titan18 wrote: »

It's a bit of a kick for non hotel restaurants and bars tbf. If its safe to open one, why not the others.

I totally agree.

Sofa King Great

charlie14 wrote: »

India a few weeks ago was low case numbers and lower levels of vaccination than the U.K. or Israel for partial opening up, but they were happy to open up virtually everything.
Ireland low case numbers and lower levels of vaccination than the U.K or Israel when opening partially and people on here want to open everything right away yet you do not see where a comparison could be made ?

You are correct - sure didn't we have 750,000 bathing in the Barrow there the other day

www.irishtimes.com/news/world/asia-pacific/millions-gather-at-ganges-as-india-s-daily-covid-tally-hits-world-record

paddyisreal

charlie14 wrote: »

India a few weeks ago was low case numbers and lower levels of vaccination than the U.K. or Israel for partial opening up, but they were happy to open up virtually everything.
Ireland low case numbers and lower levels of vaccination than the U.K or Israel when opening partially and people on here want to open everything right away yet you do not see where a comparison could be made ?

There is no comparison to be made with India and anyone even attempting to compare a third world 1.3 billion country to little old Ireland is disingenuous . It like comparing shamrock rovers to Barcelona and the problem is twice today on a national station it was allowed to be propagated with out question.

mightyreds

mandrake04 wrote: »

If I was in Ireland though all these lockdowns I probably eat my gun, I just wouldn't live like that. I would rather sacrifice 2 weeks in sun than spend 5-6 months living like a rat, its an absolute no brainer.

Funny thing is, if your sacrifice your 2 weeks in the sun you'll still be 5-6 months in lockdown, so you might as well go on the holiday it's not going to change anything.

Pandiculation

The Indian situation is pretty extreme.

I was listening to a BBC science podcast and the major concern is this double varient. It has two mutations on the spike protein which seems to have some potential to be an escape vector that is allowing it to get past previous infection immunity.

They’re still testing it though.

Most of the spread was caused by very intense events and throwing caution to the wind. The problem is the infrastructure in India and the population density also doesn’t lend itself to social distancing, so getting the virus back into control isn’t going to be easy. Getting the genie back into the bottle isn’t as easy as letting it out.

KrustyUCC

Penfailed wrote: »

The article states that hotels will open with bar and restaurant service for guests in June. That's a good thing surely?

That would be

However one commentator was saying that thinking had changed to no indoor dining

All leaks and speculation but no point in hotels being open if no intercounty and no use of facilities

PTH2009

The terrible situations elsewhere will be mentioned by MM in his nations address no doubt to try and guilt us

Tenzor07

charlie14 wrote: »

India a few weeks ago was low case numbers and lower levels of vaccination than the U.K. or Israel for partial opening up, but they were happy to open up virtually everything.
Ireland low case numbers and lower levels of vaccination than the U.K or Israel when opening partially and people on here want to open everything right away yet you do not see where a comparison could be made ?

You think the situation over in India is the directly comparable with Ireland and a reason to not lift the Lockdown here? :rolleyes:

Would you also like to claim that if you plant an apple seed that an orange tree would sprout up?

MrMischief

Lockdown or keeping industries (hospitality, tourism etc) closed does not fit into the equation below so interesting to see if the mood shifts in the coming week when folks see their pockets hit..

Minister for Public Expenditure, Michael McGrath, gave a clear indication that the Government is moving to cut the PUP sometime after the end of June, admitting they would be “changed” after that.

He told reporters on the way into Cabinet on Tuesday morning: “At this point we have committed to not abruptly ending those supports at the end of June.

“These supports will continue after that, but perhaps in a changed way.

“But those changes have yet to be made and we’ll make those in the month of May to give people adequate notice.”

Pandiculation

It’s obviously not directly comparable. We should be a bit cautious though. Fairly widespread vaccination is only weeks off here.

Open but open cautiously is how I see it going forward.

LuckyLloyd

MrMischief wrote: »

Lockdown or keeping industries (hospitality, tourism etc) closed does not fit into the equation below so interesting to see if the mood shifts in the coming week when folks see their pockets hit..

Minister for Public Expenditure, Michael McGrath, gave a clear indication that the Government is moving to cut the PUP sometime after the end of June, admitting they would be “changed” after that.

He told reporters on the way into Cabinet on Tuesday morning: “At this point we have committed to not abruptly ending those supports at the end of June.

“These supports will continue after that, but perhaps in a changed way.

“But those changes have yet to be made and we’ll make those in the month of May to give people adequate notice.”

End of June is perfect - fits with the progress of the vaccination programme. July is when the Big Rocket takes off. Can’t wait!

gozunda

paddyisreal wrote: »

There is no comparison to be made with India and anyone even attempting to compare a third world 1.3 billion country to little old Ireland is disingenuous . It like comparing shamrock rovers to Barcelona and the problem is twice today on a national station it was allowed to be propagated with out question.

Yeah bit like constantly comparing here to somewhere like the US with a population of 328.2 million or even specially selected bits of it with many times Irelands population! And God forbid we would hear anything about other countries or covid on a national station and it being "propagated"????

There's a need to be able to tell the difference between whats happening in the world right now and sticking our fingers in our ears whilst singing "nothing to see here"

Boggles

rob316 wrote: »

The deadly pandemic, where I don't know a single person that died of it.

Well you can't argue with that science.

big syke

charlie14 wrote: »

India a few weeks ago was low case numbers and lower levels of vaccination than the U.K. or Israel for partial opening up, but they were happy to open up virtually everything.
Ireland low case numbers and lower levels of vaccination than the U.K or Israel when opening partially and people on here want to open everything right away yet you do not see where a comparison could be made ?

Who wants to open everything up?

People want a approprate easing of restrictions that make sense i.e. outdoor hospitality, intecounty travel, adult team sports, click and collect.

And a well communicated road map.

I do not think anyone is wanting a total open with no maskes like India.

charlie14

paddyisreal wrote: »

There is no comparison to be made with India and anyone even attempting to compare a third world 1.3 billion country to little old Ireland is disingenuous . It like comparing shamrock rovers to Barcelona and the problem is twice today on a national station it was allowed to be propagated with out question.

A referee will not distinguish between Shamrock Rovers and Barcelona no matter high large the difference in club supporters.
If the soccer analogy helps you understand the point, then just substitute the virus for the referee.

big syke

gozunda wrote: »

Ah I see that went straight over the head. No matter.

Florida has as little to do with our situation here as 'India' does. So saying that we should look to 'Florida' but not 'India' is a bit of a double take especially where it is being used as a reason to let it rip.

And whilst I agree it might well be depressing seeing on "Instagram nightclubs in the likes of Miami wide open, no masks and everyone enjoying themselves like it was 2019" - the corally of that is the scenes out of India are truely depressing.

I am not sure if you are missing the point or are being purpousfully obtuse .

Nothing went over my head.

The point is why the need to bring up India in rerpsonse to a poster whi is jeaslous of the freeedoms Florida have?

Penfailed

MrMischief wrote: »

Lockdown or keeping industries (hospitality, tourism etc) closed does not fit into the equation below so interesting to see if the mood shifts in the coming week when folks see their pockets hit..

Minister for Public Expenditure, Michael McGrath, gave a clear indication that the Government is moving to cut the PUP sometime after the end of June, admitting they would be “changed” after that.

He told reporters on the way into Cabinet on Tuesday morning: “At this point we have committed to not abruptly ending those supports at the end of June.

“These supports will continue after that, but perhaps in a changed way.

“But those changes have yet to be made and we’ll make those in the month of May to give people adequate notice.”

I wonder what the changes will be. They can't feasibly keep businesses closed and not have a furlough payment forthcoming to those, through no fault of their own, kept out of work.

Penfailed

KrustyUCC wrote: »

All leaks and speculation but no point in hotels being open if no intercounty and no use of facilities

Very true.

big syke

gozunda wrote: »

Yeah bit like constantly comparing here to somewhere like the US with a population of 328.2 million or even specially selected bits of it with many times Irelands population! And God forbid we would hear anything about other countries or covid on a national station and it being "propagated"????

There's a need to be able to tell the difference between whats happening in the world right now and sticking our fingers in our ears whilst singing "nothing to see here"

The poster didnt compare us to Florida.

They were depressed to see the freedoms they have and you piped in with well not as depressing as India or some other ****e.

Seriously at least be honest in your awful posting and not make up ****e.

charlie14

big syke wrote: »

Who wants to open everything up?

People want a approprate easing of restrictions that make sense i.e. outdoor hospitality, intecounty travel, adult team sports, click and collect.

And a well communicated road map.

I do not think anyone is wanting a total open with no maskes like India.

I have no problem with what you are suggesting. Fully in favour in fact of following the one example that is pertinent to us imo, the U.K. based on vaccination numbers.

As to "Who wants to open everything up" I can`t help the feeling that you may have missed a hefty number of posters here. Some at least who have been anti any type of restrictions over various threads from the outset.

Edit : Well that didn`t take long. See 3 posts down.

Marty Bird

Seriously people once that EU cert comes online you will be able to travel by July/Aug, you would need to have your head examined to spend your money here.

great deals abroad can be got and even when you factor in the cost of tests over and back be still cheaper than a wet few days here.

Multipass

Penfailed wrote: »

I wonder what the changes will be. They can't feasibly keep businesses closed and not have a furlough payment forthcoming to those, through no fault of their own, kept out of work.

Hopefully they will standardise it with the payment for other people unemployed through no fault of their own.

big syke

big syke wrote: »

I do not think anyone is wanting a total open with no maskes like India.

Incorrect. I do. I trust people to make their own risk assessments and act accordingly.

The only ethical reason to ever have had this level of restriction was to hold up a disastrously managed health service. A health service that didn't come close to collapsing when we had the highest cases per capita in the world (Edit: precisely because countries locked down and put evolutionary pressure on the original virus to mutate to be more transmissible, resulting in B117 spreading here from the UK), before vaccinations had even started.

Open everything and open it now.

Sharpyshoot

Marty Bird wrote: »

Seriously people once that EU cert comes online you will be able to travel by July/Aug, you would need to have your head examined to spend your money here.

great deals abroad can be got and even when you factor in the cost of tests over and back be still cheaper than a wet few days here.

Shame you won’t staycation here and put money into pockets of business that are on their knees.

charlie14

big syke wrote: »

I am not sure if you are missing the point or are being purpousfully obtuse .

Nothing went over my head.

The point is why the need to bring up India in rerpsonse to a poster whi is jeaslous of the freeedoms Florida have?

This freedom Florida has was more or less based on "let it rip" was it not ?
India is an example of even with low numbers how that than very quickly become a disaster.
Two sides of the one coin really.

big syke

Deleted User wrote: »

Incorrect. I do. I trust people to make their own risk assessments and act accordingly.

The only ethical reason to ever have had this level of restriction was to hold up a disastrously managed health service. A health service that didn't come close to collapsing when we had the highest cases per capita in the world, before vaccinations had even started.

Open everything and open it now.

Well there are always exceptions to the rule.

For a start no mandated masks? How can someone risk assess if its a free for all with the likes of masks.

Multipass

Deleted User wrote: »

Incorrect. I do. I trust people to make their own risk assessments and act accordingly.

The only ethical reason to ever have had this level of restriction was to hold up a disastrously managed health service. A health service that didn't come close to collapsing when we had the highest cases per capita in the world, before vaccinations had even started.

Open everything and open it now.

I agree. And all the commentators on India should look up how many people, mostly children, are estimated to have been killed by lockdowns there. Starvation of the young vs respiratory illness in the elderly. Only one makes the rounds on social media.

francogarbanzo

We are exactly as much like India, a third-world country with a population of 1.3 billion people, as we are like Florida, a state in a first-world country with a population of 20 million. Therefore, we're just as likely to have outcomes similar to India's as Florida's. Got it, makes sense.

big syke

charlie14 wrote: »

This freedom Florida has was more or less based on "let it rip" was it not ?
India is an example of even with low numbers how that than very quickly become a disaster.
Two sides of the one coin really.

That is besides the point and nothing to do with the original posts.

A fair point all the same but again of no value to the point/expression made.

Sharpyshoot

francogarbanzo wrote: »

We are exactly as much like India, a third-world country with a population of 1.3 billion people, as we are like Florida, a state in a first-world country with a population of 20 million. Therefore, we're just as likely to have outcomes similar to India's as Florida's. Got it, makes sense.

And nphet are on massive wages.

big syke

big syke wrote: »

Well there are always exceptions to the rule.

For a start no mandated masks? How can someone risk assess if its a free for all with the likes of masks.

What do you mean "how can they risk assess"? Is this a real question?

They can factor in their own health status and age, their potential risk from getting infected, the level of infection in their area, and decide whether they're comfortable with it.

If they're not then they can use click & collect for groceries or get deliveries and stay home until such a time that they are comfortable with the risk. Nobody is obliged to do anything or go anywhere just because they're no longer restricted from doing so by diktat.

Multipass

Multipass wrote: »

I agree. And all the commentators on India should look up how many people, mostly children, are estimated to have been killed by lockdowns there. Starvation of the young vs respiratory illness in the elderly. Only one makes the rounds on social media.

I'm not even touching that stuff any more because I end up so completely disgusted by how easily the deaths of hundreds of thousands of children are brushed over so people can keep on being the very bestest at supporting the rules. Sickens me.

lawred2

Deleted User wrote: »

What do you mean "how can they risk assess"? Is this a real question?

They can factor in their own health status and age, their potential risk from getting infected, the level of infection in their area, and decide whether they're comfortable with it.

If they're not then they can use click & collect for groceries or get deliveries and stay home until such a time that they are comfortable with the risk. Nobody is obliged to do anything or go anywhere just because they're no longer restricted from doing so by diktat.

Some people can't think for themselves it seems.

the kelt

francogarbanzo wrote: »

We are exactly as much like India, a third-world country with a population of 1.3 billion people, as we are like Florida, a state in a first-world country with a population of 20 million. Therefore, we're just as likely to have outcomes similar to India's as Florida's. Got it, makes sense.

Follow the science

charlie14

big syke wrote: »

That is besides the point and nothing to do with the original posts.

A fair point all the same but again of no value to the point/expression made.

Of value I felt that noting letting this virus rip based on just low case numbers can result in your ass badly bitten in short order. Regardless of what country you are.

Penfailed

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Incorrect. I do. I trust people to make their own risk assessments and act accordingly.

The only ethical reason to ever have had this level of restriction was to hold up a disastrously managed health service. A health service that didn't come close to collapsing when we had the highest cases per capita in the world (Edit: precisely because countries locked down and put evolutionary pressure on the original virus to mutate to be more transmissible, resulting in B117 spreading here from the UK), before vaccinations had even started.

Open everything and open it now.

Social distancing? Masks? Limits on numbers?

paddyisreal

gozunda wrote: »

Yeah bit like constantly comparing here to somewhere like the US with a population of 328.2 million or even specially selected bits of it with many times Irelands population! And God forbid we would hear anything about other countries or covid on a national station and it being "propagated"????

Never heard RTe or newstalk comparing Ireland to the opening of restrictions in the UK or America but I do here plenty from them comparing us with india

charlie14

francogarbanzo wrote: »

We are exactly as much like India, a third-world country with a population of 1.3 billion people, as we are like Florida, a state in a first-world country with a population of 20 million. Therefore, we're just as likely to have outcomes similar to India's as Florida's. Got it, makes sense.

You don`t have to look as far as Florida or India to see what this virus can do if a country mis-manages it`s response. Just look next door at the U.K.
They are now getting praised for their low case numbers and opening up, but prior to vaccination they were a shambles. Amongst the highest in the world per capita for Covid deaths.

francogarbanzo

charlie14 wrote: »

You don`t have to look as far as Florida or India to see what this virus can do if a country mis-manages it`s response. Just look next door at the U.K.
They are now getting praised for their low case numbers and opening up, but prior to vaccination they were a shambles. Amongst the highest in the world per capita for Covid deaths.

We have mismanaged our response.

Penfailed

Penfailed wrote: »

Social distancing? Masks? Limits on numbers?

No, no, and no. I don't know how to be more clear.

People and businesses can make their own assessments and act accordingly. A business that decides to enforce social distancing and mask-wearing on its premises is going to attract some people for those reasons, and those people may be willing to pay a premium for those features. Other people will be put off by those rules. The same applies to businesses that decide not to enforce any particular covid rules.

Healthy people in their twenties will probably be as alright risking Covid as they previously were risking flu or mono or a bad cold. Healthy people in their twenties who live with a member of a vulnerable group will have additional considerations.

Unvaccinated people in their thirties with aggravating conditions might choose to go to the establishments that enforce distancing.

Unvaccinated people in their sixties with aggravating conditions might choose to forego social/public activities until a few weeks after their second dose of vaccine. Or they might decide to go to a rave with twenty-year-olds and get hammered. Whose business is it if the health system is holding up?

Boggles

Deleted User wrote: »

Edit: precisely because countries locked down and put evolutionary pressure on the original virus to mutate to be more transmissible, resulting in B117 spreading here from the UK

Really, precisely?

You have evidence for this of course?

charlie14

francogarbanzo wrote: »

We have mismanaged our response.

More-so than the U.K.?

gozunda

big syke wrote: »

I am not sure if you are missing the point or are being purpousfully obtuse . Nothing went over my head. The point is why the need to bring up India in rerpsonse to a poster whi is jeaslous of the freeedoms Florida have?

Well in that case it clearly did go over your head

As to your question: Why not? Its a simple and current analogy to something that's equally depressing and where the poster was clearly attempting to compare our situation to Florida. Something bizarrely I was accused of - for simply mentioning another country.

But more important Is there a prohibition or something on mentioning the word 'india' which leads to people losing their reason and accusing others of all and sundry?

Graces7

Deleted User wrote: »

Incorrect. I do. I trust people to make their own risk assessments and act accordingly.

The only ethical reason to ever have had this level of restriction was to hold up a disastrously managed health service. A health service that didn't come close to collapsing when we had the highest cases per capita in the world (Edit: precisely because countries locked down and put evolutionary pressure on the original virus to mutate to be more transmissible, resulting in B117 spreading here from the UK), before vaccinations had even started.

Open everything and open it now.

Para 1; er…. no... Tried that eg Belmullet.

Para 2; intrinsically incorrect. In every sentence.

para 3 NO!

Zardoz

rob316 wrote: »

The deadly pandemic, where I don't know a single person that died of it.

Never mind dying from it, I don't know anyone who even got it.
Neither does anyone in my family and a number of friends I have asked ranging from locations all over Ireland, in the UK and in Canada.

In the same year I know of at least 10 people who died from Cancer.

PintOfView

rob316 wrote: »

The deadly pandemic, where I don't know a single person that died of it. I know plenty of elderly people though who are heartbroken that they have barely seen their children, grand children and great grand children for over a year.

Would you prefer if we had opened everything up long before we vaccinated,
just so you could see for yourself how many people would die from it?

Don't Chute!

gozunda wrote: »

To paraphrase - What is it with using what’s happening in Sweden to justify letting it rip?

One thing for sure this thread is absolutely addicted to misery...

Just give me a second there Goz I’m just looking at my post to find where I said or even SUGGESTED “letting it rip”.


No sorry, couldn’t find it. Could you show me?

Graces7

gozunda wrote: »

We in that case it clearly did go over your head

As to your question: Why not? Its a simple and current analogy to something that's equally depressing and where the poster was clearly attempting to compare our situation to Florida. Something bizarrely I was accused of - for simply mentioning another country.

But more important Is there a prohibition or something on mentioning the word 'india' which leads to people losing their reason and accusing others of all and sundry?

Folk do not want to face TRUTH when faced with it. India is too real for them. Scares them. As it should. ( pmed you)

Closing now; thank you for being there.

Ph I checked re child deaths in India from lockdowns; BBC does not see it as the poster here does? Sad to see child suffering in a poor country u sed to try to justify scrapping lockdowns here.

11521323

PintOfView wrote: »

Would you prefer if we had opened everything up long before we vaccinated,
just so you could see for yourself how many people would die from it?

You have no idea how many people would die, it's all based on modelling and assumptions, which have been utter bollocks so far. I don't disagree more people would die if we opened up versus if we don't, but the goal shouldn't be to restrict death at all costs.

What we're now doing is going ultra-conservative based on worse than worst-case assumptions which is utter lunacy and ignores every other facet of the country.