Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

mohawk

Boggles wrote: »

Really, precisely?

You have evidence for this of course?

It’s very basic virology 101. Some mutations are favourable for virus to continue and others are a disadvantage for the virus and it can run out of hosts.

Human behaviour can impact the virus. We put evolutionary pressure on viruses all the time with our immune responses.

Zardoz

Zardoz wrote: »

Never mind dying from it, I don't know anyone who even got it.

I got it. It was fairly ****. Cough lasted about a year, all told.

A few relatives got it. Most fine. A few family friends got it. One dead.

I don't know anyone who got or died of H1N1 back in 2009/10 but it was still a pandemic.

The problem is what "pandemic" has come to actually mean in the minds of many. And the very "special" response to this one.

mohawk

mohawk wrote: »

It’s very basic virology 101. Some mutations are favourable for virus to continue and others are a disadvantage for the virus and it can run out of hosts.

Human behaviour can impact the virus. We put evolutionary pressure on viruses all the time with our immune responses.

Was he replying to me? lol

I've him blocked for months. Heartily recommend it.

_Kaiser_

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

I would imagine the governments line on Intercounty will be July - or basically as late as possible.

The MINUTE intercounty is open, the entire population of Dublin will decamp to the south and the west. Since they have much higher cases in a small county with less chance to go anywhere, they are itching for it probably more than other counties (eg: Cork can drive 2 1/2 hours and still be in Cork). In Dublin you have Howth and a small sliver of mountains.

Trouble is you spread the infections then around the country. I can see the problem with this, but it doesn't excuse the governments recent atrocious handling of all this.

As I said this morning though, it doesn't really matter (or shouldn't) by that stage

By July everyone actually at risk should have been vaccinated, and the other 99% of the population should rightly be able to get on with things

Of course this should already be the case but many of us here predicted that the vaccination rollout would be a mess - not all the Government/HSE's fault in fairness, but not helped by some of their decisions either.

Boggles

mohawk wrote: »

It’s very basic virology 101. Some mutations are favourable for virus to continue and others are a disadvantage for the virus and it can run out of hosts.

Human behaviour can impact the virus. We put evolutionary pressure on viruses all the time with our immune responses.

Thanks for that tangent.

Now the evidence that B117 mutated precisely because of restrictions in England?

In your own good time.

scamalert

So to sum it up:



:India is bad


whats it to do with us



:nothing just seen on tv India
so ?



:but India has bad


were not India


:I know but they have it bad there
still not India here



:we need to be careful because India


everyone else :pac::cool:

Boggles

Deleted User wrote: »

Was he replying to me? lol

I've him blocked for months. Heartily recommend it.

Won't stop people highlighting your falsehoods though.

But you have your echo chamber so you are happy.

ypres5

scamalert wrote: »

So to sum it up:



:India is bad


whats it to do with us



:nothing just seen on tv India
so ?



:but India has bad


were not India


:I know but they have it bad there
still not India here



:we need to be careful because India


everyone else :pac::cool:

They also completely ignore the fact that 86 million Indian people live in poverty without access to clean drinking water, sanitation, sewage systems, proper diets, and basic healthcare in some of the largest megacities in the world. Anyone who thinks we can compare ireland and india is on mind altering drugs as far as I'm concerned

scamalert

hardly defeats a fact when asked why the hell they bring it up they will be i didnt say anything about India :pac: and then roll India ... in the next response

gozunda

scamalert wrote: »

So to sum it up:
:India is bad
whats it to do with us
:nothing just seen on tv India
so ?
:but India has bad
were not India
:I know but they have it bad there
still not India here
:we need to be careful because India
everyone else :

Ah no you've got it aresways there

Someone simply mentions the word 'India'

The place implodes and all hell breaks loose

Screams of:

"you're comparing us with INDIA!!!

"You can't mention the word India"

"Its all a big conspiracy to keep us locked up"

"Its a different country"

"But hey Florida!"

& etc ...

mohawk

Boggles wrote: »

Thanks for that tangent.

Now the evidence that B117 mutated precisely because of restrictions in England?

In your own good time.

Can you not see how previous stains with lower transmission rates could run out of hosts with restrictions? If you can’t then I can’t help you.
Viruses are fascinating the way you can see survival of the fittest in action.

ypres5

gozunda wrote: »

Ah no you've got it aresways there;)

Someone simply mentions the word 'India'

The place implodes and all hell breaks loose

Screams of:

"you're comparing us with INDIA!!!

"You can't mention the word India"

"Its all a big conspiracy to keep us locked up"

"Florida!"

& etc ...

So gozunda, what do you feel ireland has in common with india in terms of population size, density, healthcare and overall standard of living? While florida might not be a like for like comparison to ireland we've a lot more on common in terms of standard of living and quality of life

Boggles

mohawk wrote: »

Can you not see how previous stains with lower transmission rates could run out of hosts with restrictions? If you can’t then I can’t help you.
Viruses are fascinating the way you can see survival of the fittest in action.

Again you seem to be determined to give "Virology 101".

A definite statement was made on the origin of B117.

I merely asked for evidence to back this statement, not a unique proposal I'm sure you would agree.

So without going "Virology 101" on me again, have you evidence that backs up the statement?

Marty Bird

Sharpyshoot wrote: »

Shame you won’t staycation here and put money into pockets of business that are on their knees.

I did that last year for two staycations and it cost me nearly 5k I’ve supported my local hospitality industry for years and I will continue to do so when allowed , but I just can’t take another summer of poxy weather.

Penfailed

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No, no, and no. I don't know how to be more clear.

Ah! Let 'er rip. Okay. A lot of the 'open up crew' on this thread have been saying that no one is asking for there to be no mitigation measures. It appears that you're an outlier.

kwestfan08

Cases in Florida have also been trending down too the last two weeks or so even with no restrictions on social distancing or masks within bars/nightclubs etc. I’m not saying we’re there yet to do that but the point I was making is it wouldn’t be the apocalypse is we allowed indoor socialising once we reach 40-50% of the population vaccinated.

gozunda

ypres5 wrote: »

So gozunda, what do you feel ireland has in common with india in terms of population size, density, healthcare and overall standard of living? While florida might not be a like for like comparison to ireland we've a lot more on common in terms of standard of living and quality of life

Aha so we are allowed to compare countries now. And we're doing threesomes! Well there's a new one :pac:

Tbh its an irrelevant question to me - as my comment
wasn't comparing India with us or any country

But tell me are we allowed to mention the word 'india' without being accused of it being a "comparison" as I dunno when I commented 'scenes out of India were depressing'?

Or is it you don't think scenes from India can be described so? Why is that?

ypres5

gozunda wrote: »

Aha so we are allowed to compare countries now. Well there's a new one :pac:

Tbh its an irrelevant question to me - as my comment
wasn't comparing India with us or any country

But tell me are we allowed to mention the word 'india' without being accused of it being a "comparison" as I dunno when I commented 'scenes out of India were depressing'?

Or is it you don't think scenes from India can be described so? Why is that?

I just don't see what relevance the situation in india has to ireland. We will never be in that position due to a variety of factors and you brought india into the discussion into the first place and you've been tying yourself up in knots trying to rationalize it since

Boggles

ypres5 wrote: »

I just don't see what relevance the situation in india has to ireland.

You could have said the same about China in December 2019.

Penfailed

Penfailed wrote: »

Ah! Let 'er rip. Okay.

Won't happen. People will still wear masks and take precautions if they feel they need to, just as they have in places where those things are not mandated. If all restrictions were lifted tomorrow I would still wear a mask into a crowded place and I would still wash my hands before and after, I'd still not go meet my elderly relatives until after their second jab. And I'm not particularly special or different or weird. There was an op-ed a few months ago by some liberal woman in the US who went to Florida, presumably to write a scathing indictment of the Wild Wild East, only to end up having to write about how shocked she was that people were wearing masks and largely keeping their distance from each other. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The Irish people are not children, and I will not be kowtowed into pretending that people exercising their freedom to assemble as they wish and breathe as they wish is wrong or immoral. You can do that, and so can anyone else who wants to. I will not do that, ever, no matter how much social shame is shoveled my way.

Unless the health service is crumbling under the weight of severe Covid cases, which is unlikely now or in the future unless we get a vaccine-evading variant, even if all restrictions are lifted, the levels of restriction that are being inflicted on the Irish people at this stage of the vaccination program are morally and ethically repugnant.

Anywho. Life to live. Might check in next week. Have a good 'un.

gozunda

ypres5 wrote: »

I just don't see what relevance the situation in india has to ireland. We will never be in that position due to a variety of factors and you brought india into the discussion into the first place and you've been tying yourself up in knots trying to rationalize it since

Well Ypres5 clearly not - that or anything else tbh.

Btw where was any of that said at all or is that just making stuff up again ?

So my sentence which read that - its
"Equally depressing and sad are the scenes coming out of India"

Had something to do with our situation here atm? How the fuq do you work that out?

I'd suggest you're "tying yourself up in knots trying to rationalize" with that extremly poor attempt at backtracking

But hey no matter. Good to know we can engage with the fairytale as to why Florida is just like Ireland. But can't even mention the word "India". Got ya.

Penfailed

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Anywho. Life to live. Might check in next week. Have a good 'un.

You too.

Whatsisname

Lockdowns hurt child speech and language skills - report

Data from 50,000 pupils and a survey of schools across England have shown an increased number of four- and five-year-olds needing help with language.

The Education Endowment Foundation (EEF) research suggests the measures taken to combat the pandemic have deprived the youngest children of social contact and experiences essential for increasing vocabulary.

Less or no contact with grandparents, social distancing, no play dates, and the wearing of face coverings in public have left children less exposed to conversations and everyday experiences.

Of 58 primary schools surveyed across England:

• 76% said pupils starting school in September 2020 needed more support with communication than in previous years
• 96% they were concerned about pupils' speech-and-language development.
• And 56% of parents were concerned about their child starting at school following the lockdown in the spring and summer.

Theres been a tonne of things that have shocked me over the last year but the apparent contempt for children to get an education is near the top of my list. The amount of times I've seen people scream "CLOSE THE SCHOOLS" or even recently seeing people say, "sure the year is nearly over anyway, close them now until September" with no consideration whatsoever for the roll on effect that'll have on children, especially those in their early school years. It's about time it's finally being highlighted.

I'm just surprised the headline is "lockdowns" and not "covid".

gozunda

kwestfan08 wrote: »

Cases in Florida have also been trending down too the last two weeks or so even with no restrictions on social distancing or masks within bars/nightclubs etc. I’m not saying we’re there yet to do that but the point I was making is it wouldn’t be the apocalypse is we allowed indoor socialising once we reach 40-50% of the population vaccinated.

What is it with feking Florida and Ireland comparisons!

Well let's look at that. Whilst overall case figures are down - Florida is still in the top 10 US states where coronavirus is spreading the fastest on a per-person basis. It case positivity rate is also up from previous (and higher than here) . So looks like they haven't achieved a critical number of vaccinations as of yet.

Afaik Ireland is looking at achieving approx 50% of the total adult population here to be vaccinated before restrictions for indoor / crowded / difficult to social distance and close contact venues will be rolled back.

Currently the UK is at over 50% of its population with at least dose of vaccine and they're not planning on opening nightclubs atm with a provisional date of the end of June being mooted.

The national Events Research Programme (ERP),
In the UK Is trialling one trial nightclub event in order to provide infection data on how events for a range of audiences could be permitted to safely reopen as part of the roadmap out of lockdown.

They will use the findings base their opening of nightclubs etc basis on that.

robbiezero

11521323 wrote: »

We're also unbelievably weak as a population. Most people will accept being bent over perpetually once the man on the television says we need to.

We've restricted our way into poll position within Europe for any statistic you want to look at (relating to Covid-19 suppression) and yet our reward for all that effort is a slower reopening than the rest of the world.

The people's response? "Ah sure hopefully we'll be able to sit inside a restaurant by the end of the year"

It's sickening.

I think we are a bit of a strange lot. We have a large cohort of people now almost completely ignoring restrictions, possibly in other countries, they might actually obey the nonsense, but protest.

I'm not sure I know anyone that is paying any heed of the idiotic travel or meeting one other household crap.
Our biggest problem when organising meet ups is how to keep numbers some bit down (nothing to do with Covid, but ya don't really want 30 people in your garden or house just for a casual meetup).

suicide_circus

Leo says yiz are to be less puritanical!

Sofa King Great

suicide_circus wrote: »

Leo says yiz are to be less puritanical!

He is just looking to get back out for cans in Phoenix Park

scamalert

if you let psychopath run the country we would be in lvl6 now:

However, the Minister also informed Cabinet that Dr Tony Holohan advised that a number of other European countries, including EU member states, should be added to the list on the basis that they have an incidence rate of the virus that is two-and-a-half times that of Ireland.
Cabinet sources reported that the countries included on the list - which Mr Donnelly was said to have read out quickly - were Germany, Sweden, Netherlands, Romania, Switzerland, the Czech Republic and Liechtenstein.


pathetic attempt yet this clown rules us. thank fuk it was rejected.

FintanMcluskey

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxhBkXW2C-I

These virologist’s were waiting for this all their careers

Delighted to be relevant for once and have the attention of the room

mightyreds

Sharpyshoot wrote: »

Shame you won’t staycation here and put money into pockets of business that are on their knees.

unless we post it in the letterbox cause they will be shut

Sharpyshoot

The internet should be turned off.

ypres5

scamalert wrote: »

if you let psychopath run the country we would be in lvl6 now:

However, the Minister also informed Cabinet that Dr Tony Holohan advised that a number of other European countries, including EU member states, should be added to the list on the basis that they have an incidence rate of the virus that is two-and-a-half times that of Ireland.
Cabinet sources reported that the countries included on the list - which Mr Donnelly was said to have read out quickly - were Germany, Sweden, Netherlands, Romania, Switzerland, the Czech Republic and Liechtenstein.


pathetic attempt yet this clown rules us. thank fuk it was rejected.

They'll turn us into pariahs by the time they're done. The MHQ has landed us in enough hot water with the EU as is. That holohan is an evil **** stirrer.

gozunda

Don't Chute! wrote: »

Just give me a second there Goz I’m just looking at my post to find where I said or even SUGGESTED “letting it rip”. No sorry, couldn’t find it. Could you show me?

Ah hallelujah - finally light at the end of the tunnel then? Just like there was absolutely no mention or suggestion of any thing of the opposite end of the spectrum as was suggested in this load of superfluous hyperbole?

Don't Chute! wrote: »

What is it with some people here using what’s happening in India to justify our continued lockdown? It’s almost as if they are absolutely delighted with what’s happening. Falling over themselves to make ludicrous comparisons. And they still say that they don’t want this to go on forever.

Indeed some falling over themselves to make "ludicrous comparisons" - seems to be a bit of a habit here.

JWT gone as well. 60 years in business, Shame to see and unfortunately there will probably be more. Sad times.

Penfailed

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Shame on you, and all those who thanked you.

For the record, I thanked the post in relation to people contacting their TDs. That's why I edited the rest of the questionable parts of the post when I quoted it.

FintanMcluskey

gansi wrote: »

JWT gone as well. 60 years in business, Shame to see and unfortunately there will probably be more. Sad times.

Sad and unnecessary

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.rte.ie/amp/1212375/

"Travel protocols in Ireland are the most restrictive in Europe, putting Irish travel companies at a disadvantage to their European counterparts."

Pintman Paddy Losty

Deleted User wrote: »

Now "Paddy", the comedy routine is beyond stale. You have been rumbled in other threads. You know full well that was a figure of speech. Fess up and spite the divil, it would do wonders for an agitated frame of mind.

No idea what you're trying to say.


Dr. Holohan has a tough job and I'm sure he takes absolutely no pleasure in having to make extremely unpopular recommendations in the public good. The level of invective you and others level at him is extreme and unwarranted.

Sobit1964

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

No idea what you're trying to say.


Dr. Holohan has a tough job and I'm sure he takes absolutely no pleasure in having to make extremely unpopular recommendations in the public good. The level of invective you and others level at him is extreme and unwarranted.

Thats great you are sure about how he feels. Comforting for those who didn't get to say goodbye to a loved one. :rolleyes:

Gael23

Any leaks from the NPHET meeting today?

PTH2009

Gael23 wrote: »

Any leaks from the NPHET meeting today?

There concerned and need us to hold firm

ypres5

Sobit1964 wrote: »

Thats great you are sure about how he feels. Comforting for those who didn't get to say goodbye to a loved one. :rolleyes:

I don't understand the compulsive need some people have to put overpaid public servants on a pedestal like they're feeding the poor in Yemen. The lads in nphet will be alright, they won't be claiming the PUP or dole any time soon

Any idea when intercounty travel will be back? I have a hotel stay booked for late June. Thanks.

MOR316

Deleted User wrote: »

Any idea when intercounty travel will be back? I have a hotel stay booked for late June. Thanks.

Seweryn

A few sensible words from one of our experienced and now retired doctors.

Worth listening to.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKF5aoi3DDM

ypres5

MOR316 wrote: »

Muinteoir Holohan will see you after class for that.

facehugger99

ypres5 wrote: »

I don't understand the compulsive need some people have to put overpaid public servants on a pedestal like they're feeding the poor in Yemen. The lads in nphet will be alright, they won't be claiming the PUP or dole any time soon

The weak-minded have always needed others to tell them what to think and what to do.

Real Donald Trump

Seweryn wrote: »

A few sensible words from one of our experienced and now retired doctors.

Worth listening to.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKF5aoi3DDM

This man speaks too much sense.

PTH2009

facehugger99 wrote: »

The weak-minded have always needed others to tell them what to think and what to do.

'Take your tablets like a good man'. What the doctors tells ya you do

If it's anything i've learnt from the past and from this is Doctors/GPs are not always right and you have a choice

It is a bit of a generation gap i find and my father's side of the family (60s/70s) would be all for what these experts say and they were raised that way. My generation nope i want a choice

ArthurDayne

Lumen wrote: »

There were several justifications for lockdowns, one of which was preventing HCS collapse and mass death.

Another was that the provision of healthcare becomes very difficult with a high rate of infection and disease, partly due to the resources required to directly treat those patients, and partly due to practical difficulties with keeping non-infected but vulnerable patients safe from infection. It's not easy to split services in two.

Another was that there are capacity limits to test and trace and so it becomes harder to control outbreaks when there are lots of them.

I don't know what level of infection is tolerable. France have been managing with 5-10x the cases per capita that we have, although they have more capacity in their healthcare system. So maybe we could live with 1,000/day rather than 400/day.

The problem is that France has personal services and a bit more outdoor sports open but otherwise their lockdown is much the same as ours. Their cafes and restaurants have been closed since the end of October.

So if we re-open too quick, we're not going to very far open before we have to at least pause re-opening further, or worse still go back to full level 5.

That's of course if you buy into the idea that keeping to a thousand or so cases a day is worth doing to keep healthcare and contact tracing functioning.

If you just want everything open and to hell with the consequences then...I don't think the government has popular support for that.

Apologies as I only saw this now.

First of all, I’m not sure how those additional justifications you provide for lockdown are actually separate from the collapsed healthcare system justification. When you talk about the difficulty of compartmentalising the virus in hospitals, surely this difficulty would have to be so overriding as to precipitate a lot of death and suffering by virtue of the healthcare service being unable to cope with it. I mean, lockdown was never justified to the public on a watery sort of “well we might have some difficulty here and there” basis — it was justified on a basis of “we will have so much difficulty that we will be unable to cope and many people will suffer and die as a result of that”.

Now, the other thing which I take issue with in your post is the assertion of what has become a persistent false dichotomy — that there is no middle ground between the strategy and “open everything up and to hell with the consequences”. My argument has never rested on opening everything up, my argument has simply rested in finding the right balance and ensuring that the measures taken are proportionate and reasonable. Where we have a virus that is, for the most part, deadly for only a specific cohort of the population and most of the fatalities are at or exceeding the average life expectancy, there is room for balance. This is now all the more so given that the nursing home cohort and many of those in the age group most likely to die from this virus have received at least one vaccination which gives significant protection — and medical staff are also vaccinated.

Getting residential construction back again has not caused the health service to collapse, nor will it. The same can be said for the 5km limit and schools being closed and the same will be the case when bars / restaurants / hairdressers and retailers are given a dog’s chance of opening in a manner where they follow precautionary measures. They were open before and this did not collapse healthcare, but sadly Irish society and the State have taken the view that what happened at Christmas — the most sociable time of the year, with people moving all around to gather indoors with older relatives, where respiratory illness seasonality is a factor, and in a year where people had not seen eachother and were unaware of when they could again — can and will be directly translated to now if we dare to peel away at least some of the measures quicker than the ludicrously slow pace being pursued now.

Seweryn

Real Donald Trump wrote: »

This man speaks too much sense.

Sadly that could be the main reasons he had to resign from his position.