Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

gozunda

timmyntc wrote: »

We have seen both domestically when we last opened restaurants and across Europe that outdoor cafes & restaurants lead to a very low amount of outbreaks overall. By keeping them closed now in the summer we are actually forcing more people to meet indoors in private homes instead. The data is there, we just have to use it.

Are "we"? Wheres your source for that? Why do you believe the absolute majority who have been observing restrictions todate are suddenly going to go berserk and charge into each others home for a bit of interior dining?

Elessar

What are the chances Tony & friends don't recommend the resumption of personal services or non essential retail for next month?

I have a sneaking feeling that is what they will tell government.

paddyisreal

Sawduck wrote: »

So holidays abroad are looking unlikely again this summer, any chance of holidays in Ireland or even restaurants or pubsopening, or are we looking at another depressing summer while many other countries enjoy life

I wouldn't right of holidays in Europe yet , the EU might kick us in to gear with the green card. knowing our shower you will probably be able to fly out of the country quicker than go to a local restaurant

charlie14

Klonker wrote: »

So the UK never closed construction or cancelled click and collect. Do you agree these never should have stopped as they only have a negligible effect on our covid rates while the closing/cancelling of these has a large economic and social effect. Since we are comparing with the UK.

Also we are only about a month behind the UK in vaccinating terms and they'll have indoor dining and pubs mid May, do you think we should have the same mid June?

I honestly don't think comparisons with the UK is even good to be honest. The reason they are conservative in their reopening is because they can be because of their vaccine supply. All other EU countries will open up before us even though they have way higher rates and less vaccine take up. You couldn't say the UK was anywhere near the most conservative in 2020, the only thing that's changed is the vaccine supply. If the tables were turned and they were the ones lagging the EU in roll out they certainly wouldn't be waiting until such high numbers are vaccinated to ease their restrictions.

You are talking now comparing Ireland to the U.K. during a period when the U.K. was a complete shambles in dealing with this virus with one of the highest per capita death rates in the world. Do you really think it would have been a good idea for Ireland to copy everything they did in that period ?

We are indeed only around a month, perhaps a little more depending on supply, behind the U.K. vaccination levels where they opened outdoor dining and outdoor pub service. It will be 5 weeks after that date before they are planning, should 4 tests be passed, on opening indoor dining and pubs on May 17th.
Do you somehow thing we should just pass go and jump into the 2nd. level of U.K. openings and why ?

The U.K. are not "conservative in their opening" They are further ahead than any European country in opening because of their vaccination numbers.
They did not open anything until they had reached a 50% vaccination level over 2 weeks ago and from their data it is working on lowering infections and deaths.
If countries choose to open up on a basis less than the U.K. vaccination rate then they are doing so not on the basis of the data from the U.K., or indeed Israel, They are doing it on the basis of chancing it and hoping for the best.

Corholio

Elessar wrote: »

What are the chances Tony & friends don't recommend the resumption of personal services or non essential retail for next month?

I have a sneaking feeling that is what they will tell government.

I think they have been mentioned so much as the things that will change by government, that any backtracking would be suicidal. As bad as they are, can't see it happening.

gozunda

paddyisreal wrote: »

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data-explorer

Doing a bit better than us in their vaccine rollout and also once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated who gives a **** ?

Spain are obviously not adverse to risk like our over paid, conservative government whom seem intent in dragging this out as long as possible.

Spain ahead by just a few percentage points for first and second dose vaccinations interestingly enough.

Who gives a "****" once the "elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated"???

The absolute majority give a "****" I'd reckon.

Yeah Spain are taking a risk as you said. Hope it works out for them.

Here we are keeping the infection rate down and progressing with our vaccination programme. The former is something Spain seem to have let slip atm.

suicide_circus

Sawduck wrote: »

So holidays abroad are looking unlikely again this summer, any chance of holidays in Ireland or even restaurants or pubsopening, or are we looking at another depressing summer while many other countries enjoy life

Stay home. Obey your betters.

bikeman1

Sawduck wrote: »

So holidays abroad are looking unlikely again this summer, any chance of holidays in Ireland or even restaurants or pubsopening, or are we looking at another depressing summer while many other countries enjoy life

Holidays abroad were permitted last summer. Ireland had its "Green List" of countries. I had two amazing trips to Italy. Rome was glorious in the sunshine without all the millions of tourists at the regular sites. The second trip was to Venice, same again just the locals and a few tourists.

I flew home and straight back to normal here. The same will be possible this summer whenever the government get their act together.

I know a few friends who went to Greece and really loved it too. You have to take your opportunities when you can with this thing.

charlie14

bikeman1 wrote: »

Holidays abroad were permitted last summer. Ireland had its "Green List" of countries. I had two amazing trips to Italy. Rome was glorious in the sunshine without all the millions of tourists at the regular sites. The second trip was to Venice, same again just the locals and a few tourists.

I flew home and straight back to normal here. The same will be possible this summer whenever the government get their act together.

I know a few friends who went to Greece and really loved it too. You have to take your opportunities when you can with this thing.

Far as I recall wasn`t the "Green List" a bit of a shambles with tourists from some countries scrambling to get home just days after arrival before the country closed down due to sharp increases in new cases ?

facehugger99

bikeman1 wrote: »

Holidays abroad were permitted last summer. Ireland had its "Green List" of countries. I had two amazing trips to Italy. Rome was glorious in the sunshine without all the millions of tourists at the regular sites. The second trip was to Venice, same again just the locals and a few tourists.

I flew home and straight back to normal here. The same will be possible this summer whenever the government get their act together.

I know a few friends who went to Greece and really loved it too. You have to take your opportunities when you can with this thing.

I was thinking the same thing.

It's amazing how compliant the Irish are - a bit of finger-wagging from 'de man on de telly' and most people tugged their forelock and promptly canceled their trips.

I was in Venice too - amazing to be able to show this fascinating city to our kids in August without the hoards of tourists you usually get.

LuckyLloyd

facehugger99 wrote: »

Imagine belonging to an organization that actually takes your constitutionally enshrined rights seriously - mad isn't it?

The EU will force the issue and certificates will allow travel to other EU countries - that's our right as citizens. I'll have both my shots by July and will be jetting off in August.

I know it shouldn't, but the thought that it will annoy an few lockdown clappy-seals, is probably going to make it even more enjoyable.

I don't think that would annoy them pal.

Necro

https://twitter.com/MichealLehane/status/1387385359563116546?s=19

Knew it. I knew well they would give something like this to stop people heading up to NI when the indoor pubs reopen end of May. Very promising this

mohawk

paddyisreal wrote: »

I wouldn't right of holidays in Europe yet , the EU might kick us in to gear with the green card. knowing our shower you will probably be able to fly out of the country quicker than go to a local restaurant

I wonder if government are stupid enough to let that happen. All that disposable income leaving the country while we are paying people to sit at home on the PUP. It would be madness and a PR nightmare.

Klonker

charlie14 wrote: »

You are talking now comparing Ireland to the U.K. during a period when the U.K. was a complete shambles in dealing with this virus with one of the highest per capita death rates in the world. Do you really think it would have been a good idea for Ireland to copy everything they did in that period ?

We are indeed only around a month, perhaps a little more depending on supply, behind the U.K. vaccination levels where they opened outdoor dining and outdoor pub service. It will be 5 weeks after that date before they are planning, should 4 tests be passed, on opening indoor dining and pubs on May 17th.
Do you somehow thing we should just pass go and jump into the 2nd. level of U.K. openings and why ?

The U.K. are not "conservative in their opening" They are further ahead than any European country in opening because of their vaccination numbers.
They did not open anything until they had reached a 50% vaccination level over 2 weeks ago and from their data it is working on lowering infections and deaths.
If countries choose to open up on a basis less than the U.K. vaccination rate then they are doing so not on the basis of the data from the U.K., or indeed Israel, They are doing it on the basis of chancing it and hoping for the best.

Of course the UK are being conservative in their reopening. Do you think any other country in Europe are going to wait until they have 50% of adults vaccinated before they open outdoor dining and hairdressers apart from Ireland? Most European countries already have those things open now and have about 25% of adults vaccinated, similar to ourselves. So how is the UK not conservative in its reopening if it is being more conservative than every other country in Europe aprt from us? I'm not asking us to slip ahead stages but giving the circa month vaccine difference we should be able to reopen retail and outdoor dining mid May and indoor dining and pubs mid June but we won't, we probably won't even have the latter by mid July.

So we will be more conservative than the most conservative country (or whatever you want to call the UK), who had the option of being more conservative due to the speed of their rollout.

It doesn't mater who you compare us to our reopening is slower than everyone else even though we have better metrics such as less vulnerable people and lower covid rates but none of that seems to matter. How come our NPHETs projections are so much more negative than every other countries? Is everyone else's scientests and public health experts wrong or something or perhaps its Ireland who are out of step!

Micky 32

Lefty2Guns wrote: »

I think people need to brace themselves for another winter lockdown. The soundbites from Government about it are constant.

It’s getting more obvious by the day that MM has either forgotten we have a vaccination program or he thinks the vaccines won’t work or at least won’t work good enough. A vaccinated public shouldn’t see “spikes”. It’s looking more obvious we won’t be going back to normal. The only chance we have is that if this pandemic repeats history and eventually dies out.

Thankfully i’m in a position to emmigrate to the US by next year if this **** show becomes permanent.

paddyisreal

gozunda wrote: »

Spain ahead by just a few percentage points for first and second dose vaccinations interestingly enough.

Who gives a "****" once the "elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated"???

The absolute majority give a "****" I'd reckon.

Yeah Spain are taking a risk as you said. Hope it works out for them.

Here we are keeping the infection rate down and progressing with our vaccination programme. The former is something Spain seem to have let slip atm.

If keeping the infection rate down is a measure of success , what will we do with all the children in the country cause i hate to break it to you but their ain't no kids vaccine ? so there are going to be about 1.7 million people in the country with no vaccine even after we vaccinate everyone who wants one.

Maybe infection rate is not the barometer you think it is....

lawred2

gozunda wrote: »

Spain ahead by just a few percentage points for first and second dose vaccinations interestingly enough.

Who gives a "****" once the "elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated"???

The absolute majority give a "****" I'd reckon.

Yeah Spain are taking a risk as you said. Hope it works out for them.

Here we are keeping the infection rate down and progressing with our vaccination programme. The former is something Spain seem to have let slip atm.

you've done the field work?

or you're a self appointed spokesperson?

bear1

lawred2 wrote: »

you've done the field work?

or you're a self appointed spokesperson?

It's very easy to pull facts from your hole.
Watch. The absolute majority Prefer lockdowns

Boggles

Micky 32 wrote: »

It’s getting more obvious by the day that MM has either forgotten we have a vaccination program or he thinks the vaccines won’t work or at least won’t work good enough. A vaccinated public shouldn’t see “spikes”. It’s looking more obvious we won’t be going back to normal. The only chance we have is that if this pandemic repeats history and eventually dies out.

Of course there could be and hospitalizations and deaths.

That is the reality of the near future.

Everyone is fire fighting domestically at the moment, but the wider issue will need to tackled in the coming years.

13 months ago the situation was very grave, I don't think people can or want to comprehend how grave.

This year I predict a high vaccination rate heading for the Autumn, can anyone guarantee the same level in 2-3-4 years time?

We may be living with this for a while, but vaccines allow us to.

Unfortunately a vaccine doesn't mean a vaccination.

But again who knows, like you suggest we could get lucky and could fúck off.

paddyisreal

mohawk wrote: »

I wonder if government are stupid enough to let that happen. All that disposable income leaving the country while we are paying people to sit at home on the PUP. It would be madness and a PR nightmare.

I wouldn't be surprised. They are that incompetent anything is possible

Potatoeman

After 4 months every politician has a haircut, either their partners are all hairdressers or they are showing the usual double standards.

castletownman

Necro wrote: »

https://twitter.com/MichealLehane/status/1387385359563116546?s=19

Knew it. I knew well they would give something like this to stop people heading up to NI when the indoor pubs reopen end of May. Very promising this

Sharpyshoot

Potatoeman wrote: »

After 4 months every politician has a haircut, either their partners are all hairdressers or they are showing the usual double standards.

M Martin’s hair is cocking out in a curl at the back.

Sammy2012

Just wondering (as a 2nd class teacher) has there been any mention of communions going ahead? I know they will allow normal service resume in the coming weeks but does anyone know if communions/confirmations will go ahead due to the gatherings that will happen around them. Would it be up to church leaders or government to decide that?

funnydoggy

Boggles wrote: »

Unfortunately a vaccine doesn't mean a vaccination.

charlie14

Klonker wrote: »

Of course the UK are being conservative in their reopening. Do you think any other country in Europe are going to wait until they have 50% of adults vaccinated before they open outdoor dining and hairdressers apart from Ireland? Most European countries already have those things open now and have about 25% of adults vaccinated, similar to ourselves. So how is the UK not conservative in its reopening if it is being more conservative than every other country in Europe aprt from us? I'm not asking us to slip ahead stages but giving the circa month vaccine difference we should be able to reopen retail and outdoor dining mid May and indoor dining and pubs mid June but we won't, we probably won't even have the latter by mid July.

So we will be more conservative than the most conservative country (or whatever you want to call the UK), who had the option of being more conservative due to the speed of their rollout.

It doesn't mater who you compare us to our reopening is slower than everyone else even though we have better metrics such as less vulnerable people and lower covid rates but none of that seems to matter. How come our NPHETs projections are so much more negative than every other countries? Is everyone else's scientests and public health experts wrong or something or perhaps its Ireland who are out of step!

So how does that make these European countries opening anything other than taking a chance and hope it works out ?
The only data on the control of this virus that shows a decline in cases and deaths is that of both the U.K. and Israel vaccination levels. Particularly in relation to Ireland where the U.K. did not open anything until they had reached 50% first dose. So yes, if we have reached the same level of vaccination as the U.K. on the basis of the known scientific data we should do the same. In step with the actual scientific data rather than conjecture.

As to the metric on lower Covid rates, was that not the arguement being put forward by some on here prior to Christmas with their "re-opening everything".
That worked well alright.

Boggles

Potatoeman wrote: »

After 4 months every politician has a haircut, either their partners are all hairdressers or they are showing the usual double standards.

Yeah, you would have to be a professional stylist to tackle MM's bounce.



A tweezers and 90 seconds.

funnydoggy

Boggles wrote: »

Yeah, you would have to be a professional stylist to tackle MM's bounce.



A tweezers and 90 seconds.

:pac: I'm out on a walk and I'm giggling away to myself. People are probably wondering who let me out!

charlie14

paddyisreal wrote: »

If keeping the infection rate down is a measure of success , what will we do with all the children in the country cause i hate to break it to you but their ain't no kids vaccine ? so there are going to be about 1.7 million people in the country with no vaccine even after we vaccinate everyone who wants one.

Maybe infection rate is not the barometer you think it is....

For a transmittable virus the barometer is the level at which you reach herd immunity.
A number of pharma companies are already trialling vaccines for younger age groups.

gozunda

paddyisreal wrote: »

If keeping the infection rate down is a measure of success , what will we do with all the children in the country cause i hate to break it to you but their ain't no kids vaccine ? so there are going to be about 1.7 million people in the country with no vaccine even after we vaccinate everyone who wants one.

Maybe infection rate is not the barometer you think it is....

OK so we've gone from "once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated who gives a **** to will 'someone not think of the kids'?

Eh not sure what "kids" have got to do with what was said. But whatever

Afaik the WHO is not recommending vaccination of children below 16 years of age. Though that is likely to change as vaccine trials on children go ahead.

It remains that with min. 50% of the eligible adult population vaccinated then the available evidence from the UK and Isreal shows that the rate of infection does fall rapidly

And with the rate of infection down and it can be kept down via vaccination as we have seen in those countries- case numbers decline and hospital numbers go down, and as a result countries are much less likley to end up on the banned list of other countries regarding travel .

So no its not a 'barometer' but its certainly one of the primary goals of most countries atm.

charlie14

Necro wrote: »

https://twitter.com/MichealLehane/status/1387385359563116546?s=19

Knew it. I knew well they would give something like this to stop people heading up to NI when the indoor pubs reopen end of May. Very promising this

Nothing to do with our first dose vaccinations being possibly around 50% at that stage ?

Whatsisname

paddyisreal wrote: »

If keeping the infection rate down is a measure of success , what will we do with all the children in the country cause i hate to break it to you but their ain't no kids vaccine ? so there are going to be about 1.7 million people in the country with no vaccine even after we vaccinate everyone who wants one.

Maybe infection rate is not the barometer you think it is....

The goalpost beginning to be moved again. It was once all the vulnerable are vaccinated, to once all the over 50s are, to all adults, and now it's making its way down to teenagers & children. Nothing is ever enough.

gozunda

Whatsisname wrote: »

The goalpost beginning to be moved again. It was once all the vulnerable are vaccinated, to once all the over 50s are, to all adults, and now it's making its way down to children. Nothing is ever enough.

I think you're been a tad dramatic there. The priority was always to get the elderly and medically vulnerable vaccinated first - then other groups by age. Plus the WHO does not recommend vaccination of children below 16 years of age atm.

I don't ever remember being told we could let it rip once the first groups were vaccinated.

timmyntc

charlie14 wrote: »

Nothing to do with our first dose vaccinations being possibly around 50% at that stage ?

By that stage we could be swamped with Indian variants!

Potatoeman

Boggles wrote: »

Yeah, you would have to be a professional stylist to tackle MM's bounce.



A tweezers and 90 seconds.

You think his wife is doing it? He’s still getting a professional to do it.

Tenzor07

Well at least Varadkar is being optimistic about this Summer. the Great outdoors, Staycations in your own county... So positive from him...



https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/varadkar-the-summer-is-not-lost-1.4271741

bear1

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Well at least Varadkar is being optimistic about this Summer. the Great outdoors, Staycations in your own county... So positive from him...



https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/varadkar-the-summer-is-not-lost-1.4271741

****e if you live in laois or carlow

Gael23

Hotels open with no bar or restaurant won’t attract anyone to holiday at home

ArthurDayne

Boggles wrote: »

Again you haven't offered any solutions or methods.

Open everything now and let's see is neither.

Vaccinate and open up is the way to go, the path has been paved.

But contrarians are going to be contrary.

And there it is, the deus ex machina of all those who parrot the government’s strategy — to speak out against restrictions is to say “open everything up and let’s see”. It’s a great tool, a handy way of bludgeoning the nuance out of an argument until it resembles the argument you want to hear so you can criticise it with the same blanket responses.

The problem here of course is that all I actually mentioned in my post were things that have all already been open during the Covid crisis — and that was before there was a vaccine. I do not believe in just opening everything up, I simply believe in stripping away the measures that are not necessary to prevent the vista on which lockdown was justified. I believe in the abundance of proportionality, not the abundance of caution — to give businesses a fighting chance of survival, to contribute to economic recovery which will have knock on effects as regards socioeconomic deprivation and indeed poverty, to give young people a chance to get their formative years back on track, to make people more willing to sustain and endure the more necessary measures — and of course to protect life within the boundaries of reasonableness.

I mean, where have your posts about the 5km rule gone? Why aren’t you calling for it to be reinstated? You will of course say that the 5km rule was necessary and that it was simply lifted at the right time — and the right time for you is simply whenever you are told it is the right time, whereby anyone who dared argue that it should have been lifted quicker is merely a contrarian. I of course am a complete contrarian fool for daring to say that the government’s appreciation for when the 5km rule should have been lifted (even if one thinks it never should have been imposed) was later than it should have been — and even more so for believing that they are being too slow on other measures too.

And like the 5km rule, you will quietly pack up your goalposts at each juncture and move them to wherever they need to be so you can keep equating critical thought, and the horrendous audacity of mere silly civilians to question State policy, with contrarianism.

gozunda

gozunda wrote: »

absolute majority

Define this term.

And then stop using it incorrectly.

charlie14

timmyntc wrote: »

By that stage we could be swamped with Indian variants!

With us keeping the numbers low until we reach that 50% vaccination first dose mark unlikely I would imagine.
Still, you do know don`t you that one of the four tests the U.K. stipulates having to be passed before they move to the next level of re-opening is that I.C.U. numbers are not fundamentally changed due to a new variant ?

MOR316

Im off to Belfast and Derry for a break on the first week of June.
Will send the Government and NPHET a postcard from each pub I visit

I'm in favour of the relaxations at this point in time given the number of people with first dose of the vaccine.

Corholio

Some reports of personal services not opening until 'late May'. That'd be disappointing if true.

stephenjmcd

Corholio wrote: »

Some reports of personal services not opening until 'late May'. That'd be disappointing if true.

Week of the 17th doing the rounds for hairdressers & barbers.

My mothers hairdresser is making provisional appointments now for week of 17th. Only 3 weeks from now

Construction & retail are going to be the first ones so going on the staggered basis that week sounds and looks most likely.

Corholio

'Late' may for personal services here. I guess the 17th could be considered 'late'.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/nphet-meeting-to-consider-next-phase-of-reopening-society-1118910.html

ArthurDayne

charlie14 wrote: »

So how does that make these European countries opening anything other than taking a chance and hope it works out ?
The only data on the control of this virus that shows a decline in cases and deaths is that of both the U.K. and Israel vaccination levels. Particularly in relation to Ireland where the U.K. did not open anything until they had reached 50% first dose. So yes, if we have reached the same level of vaccination as the U.K. on the basis of the known scientific data we should do the same. In step with the actual scientific data rather than conjecture.

As to the metric on lower Covid rates, was that not the arguement being put forward by some on here prior to Christmas with their "re-opening everything".
That worked well alright.

Yes but what is irritating here is that you seem to be making the assumption that the pro-lockdown school of thought, for want of a better term, does not bear any moral responsibility for what happened at Christmas.

I mean, what exactly made people so desperate to get out to the shops and restaurants with such vigour — what made them so desperate to try to get home to see friends and family again? What made people so desperate to taste some form of normality and freedom again, not knowing when they might be able to enjoy it anytime in the immediate future?

The pro-lockdowners have to accept that containing the transmission of Covid comes at a great price and a great risk — the risk being that if you cannot sustain lockdown for a long term then the virus has the potential to sweep through the country like the waters from a burst dam when you eventually break and people rush out to enjoy freedom. By locking people down, this has to come with an acceptance that relenting means a simultaneous explosion of pretty much everyone organising to see friends and family again. You only have to look at the former lockdown poster-child Portugal for confirmation of that.

It’s getting tiresome though that the people who advocate lockdown will not accept this weakness of their view (even if they still feel on balance that it is right) — instead preferring to simply say that the all-but-inevitable realistic outcomes of lockdown are instead the fault of the anti-restriction crowd who just couldn’t behave themselves. The pro-lockdown crowds wants to own the logic of its argument, but is forever disowning the realistic outcomes of that argument — and that is precisely what you are doing in the last paragraph of your post.

gozunda

lawred2 wrote: »

you've done the field work?
or you're a self appointed spokesperson?

Yeah even more feking nonsense no one ever said. :pac:

Well Lawred2 - unlike the dictate you highlighted and to quote "who gives a ***"

I clarified the statement "that "the absolute majority do give a "***" with "I reckon" So unlike the highlighted comment- nope I'm not holding out as an authority

But yeah its evident from surveys to date that support for vaccine uptake is very strong with 85% of the population now say they are prepared to or have already received a vaccine – an increase from 75 per cent in January according to The Irish Times. Other survey show similar

So yeah I guess from that - the majority absolutely do give a "****"

Deleted User wrote: »

Define this term.
And then stop using it incorrectly.

:rolleyes: See above. But yes boss. Right away boss. Will do boss.


*Mod Snip - no need for this*

11521323

gozunda wrote: »

Sorry bit of an aside but I have to have a laugh at the same thankers turning up on clockwork bit like a bad smell regardless

You and me both...

Also ironic you giving out about thankers when I've probably seen maybe two people on this thread agree with any of the stuff you post. Does that not give you a little bit of an inclination that your opinions are off-base?

lawred2

gozunda wrote: »

Yeah even more feking nonsense no one ever said. :pac:

Well Lawred2 - unlike the dictate you highlighted and to quote "who gives a ***"

I clarified the statement "that "the absolute majority do give a "***" with "I reckon" So unlike the highlighted comment- nope I'm not holding out as an authority

But yeah its evident from surveys to date that support for vaccine uptake is very strong with 85% of the population now say they are prepared to or have already received a vaccine – an increase from 75 per cent in January according to The Irish Times. Other survey show similar

So yeah I guess from that - the majority absolutely do give a "****"


Sorry bit of an aside but I have to have a laugh at the same thankers turning up on clockwork bit like a bad smell regardless

more disingenuous posting from the master of it

that is no more the context within which you posted

I'm 100% getting the vaccine... but do I believe current restrictions are valid when the majority of those getting ill from this disease are vaccinated? No I don't. Not one bit.

You've just conflated support for a vaccination with support for restrictions.

I'll look forward to your next post... maybe we'll see another increase in asterisks.