Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Graham

davidod1983 wrote: »

Germany has been open at times for outdoor dining in last few months, we haven't been

Great example.

Germany has in the last few days had to apply the "emergency break"

I'd rather we didn't.

charlie14

LMAO at the usual suspects still whinging and crying even now when all their doomsday predictions on opening up and Dr. Tony Holohan are looking very very foolish.

Graham

Graham wrote: »

Great example.

Germany has in the last few days had to apply the "emergency break"

I'd rather we didn't.

I'd rather we make data driven decisions when cases are so low to allow people back to work in a safe environment which is what outdoor activities are. That's what Germany does and will reopen again when their case numbers go below a threshold. They operate of a seven-day incidence rate threshold of 100 new infections per 100,000 and it is entirely sensible and have shown to be flexible to open when it falls unlike us.

Graham

davidod1983 wrote: »

I'd rather we make data driven decisions when cases are so low to allow people back to work in a safe environment which is what outdoor activities are.

Ohh ok, that's an interesting change in perspective.

I thought you wanted decisions to be based on what you imagined more relaxed restrictions our EU neighbours had.

I can understand why you'd want to change position now

Graham

Graham wrote: »

Ohh ok, that's an interesting change in perspective.

I thought you wanted decisions to be based on what you imagined more relaxed restrictions our EU neighbours had.

I can understand why you'd want to change position now

Which is what other EU countries do aka Germany and we don't - precisely my arguement. Quite simple really but I guess it's hard to accept you were wrong here when all information you have seen here has showed you.

gozunda

davidod1983 wrote: »

Read my post, take a look around Europe and you will see regarding outdoor dining. Netherland open now, Belgium May 8th, France mid may, Germany, Italy, Spain. Take your pick and maybe do a bit of reading.

I know for a fact that restaurants and cafes in Germany are shut.

In contrast to here and recent announcements - Germany has seen a whole raft of restrictions imposed nationwide due to the recent rise in the rate of infection there

https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-germanys-emergency-brake-rules-take-effect/a-57321750

Bit cynical

Graham wrote: »

I think the idea was it would highlight how we're the absolutely most restrictive country ever.

Unfortunately the idea is unsupported by reality.

In fairness we're fairly restrictive by EU standards and have been throughout the pandemic. The chart below shows that we tend to be at the top or close to it.


I think the reason many of us such as yourself don't think so is because we've kind of got used to it because it has gone on so long in Ireland with so little let up. The only time we were below average for the EU was a brief period of a couple of weeks in the summer. Even the Christmas relaxation that people go on about was still quite restrictive by EU standards. It has become the "new normal".

The problem of course is that because we have so overused lockdowns it is going to be hard politically to lift them even when it is in the best interests of the country to do so. This means we could have some form of restrictions long after other countries have abandoned them.

gozunda

Bit cynical wrote: »

In fairness where fairly restrictive by EU standards and have been throughout the pandemic. The chart below shows that we tend to be at the top or close to it.


I think the reason many of us such as yourself don't think so is because we've kind of got used to it. It has become the "new normal".

Are we though or is that something we're telling ourselves? A lot of the low outliers you've included are Eastern European Countries.

Took this from the WID Stringency Index the other day

Included are Ireland and a number of our favourite EU holiday destinations

And guess what? Looks like there's bugger all difference atm between us.

With Greece leading the Pack and Ireland and Italy having the same scores atm. And then with periods of time we're at the bottom of that graph.

Graham

Bit cynical wrote: »

In fairness we're fairly restrictive by EU standards and have been throughout the pandemic. The chart below shows that we tend to be at the top or close to it.

Agreed we do tend to be at the top of the chart although the chart doesn't show how lightly the restrictions are actually enforced. Despite that until quite recently we've done quite well at adhering to them.

The result is we're now in a very strong position which bodes very well for the rest of the year for us.

I think that's a good position to be in as we approach summer.

Graham

davidod1983 wrote: »

Which is what other EU countries do aka Germany and we don't - precisely my arguement. Quite simple really but I guess it's hard to accept you were wrong here when all information you have seen here has showed you.

You'd rather we were like Germany applying the emergency break now and increasing restrictions rather than easing them?

That's a rather odd viewpoint.

Bit cynical

gozunda wrote: »

Are we though or is that something we're telling ourselves?

I am not sure what that question means. I was merely refuting a point someone else had made with data. We tend to be at the top of the EU in terms of restrictions.

Bit cynical

Graham wrote: »

The result is we're now in a very strong position which bodes very well for the rest of the year for us.

I think that's a good position to be in as we approach summer.

Good position for what?

Graham

Bit cynical wrote: »

Good position for what?

Relaxing restrictions, having a summer, a much reduced risk of restrictions being reversed.

Compared to some of our EU neighbours that are currently increasing restrictions, I know which position I'd prefer to be in.

Bit cynical

Graham wrote: »

Relaxing restrictions, having a summer, a much reduced risk of restrictions being reversed.

Compared to some of our EU neighbours that are currently increasing restrictions, I know which position I'd prefer to be in.

But how does being in heavy restrictions for a long time make it easier to open up? Yes we start off with low numbers, but as people make up for lost time with increased socialising, this leads to rising numbers and the tendency to reimpose restrictions. This is not the case to the same extent with countries that allowed some social outlets.

The summer weather and the vaccinations that have occurred help, of course, but these factors help either way.

moonage

It's all rather pathetic.

Horray! Intercounty travel is allowed, hairdressers and outdoor hospitality will re-open. Joy of joys! How wonderful!

It's like a starving man in a prison cell being thrown an apple core and he's delighted with it.

NIMAN

moonage wrote: »

It's all rather pathetic.

Horray! Intercounty travel is allowed, hairdressers and outdoor hospitality will re-open. Joy of joys! How wonderful!

It's like a starving man in a prison cell being thrown an apple core and he's delighted with it.

They have beaten our spirits down that much, that any little relaxation is greated like its an amazing thing.

But sure at least we can get our hair cut.....soon.

charlie14

Bit cynical wrote: »

But how does being in heavy restrictions for a long time make it easier to open up? Yes we start off with low numbers, but as people make up for lost time with increased socialising, this leads to rising numbers and the tendency to reimpose restrictions. This is not the case to the same extent with countries that allowed some social outlets.

The summer weather and the vaccinations that have occurred help, of course, but these factors help either way.

Why do you believe people making up for lost time will increase numbers to the extent that lockdown will be imposed ?
At 50% first dose vaccination in the U.K. it hasn`t happened. Nor does it look likely to from their data plus more people being vaccinated.

Penfailed

Richard Hillman wrote: »

They're never getting rid of masks. You'll be wearing them every winter.

Erm. So they're getting rid of them in Spring, Summer and Autumn?

CruelSummer

D-day. The late night rumours last night were positive, hopefully it remains so today. We can already see people are now doing their own thing re restrictions, better for the government to open up businesses safely & provide a structure to it all.

Leftwaffe

Looking forward to the summer months but I’m also well aware this lot will lock down again come the cold weather. Even if we reach a high percentage of the population being vaccinated they will close up shop. We all know it.

A tiny percentage of cases and a few people in hospital is enough for them to justify it.

Penfailed

Leftwaffe wrote: »

Looking forward to the summer months but I’m also well aware this lot will lock down again come the cold weather. Even if we reach a high percentage of the population being vaccinated they will close up shop. We all know it.

A tiny percentage of cases and a few people in hospital is enough for them to justify it.

This is pure conjecture. You don't know it. We all don't know it.

Theboinkmaster

Leftwaffe wrote: »

Looking forward to the summer months but I’m also well aware this lot will lock down again come the cold weather. Even if we reach a high percentage of the population being vaccinated they will close up shop. We all know it.

A tiny percentage of cases and a few people in hospital is enough for them to justify it.

No they won’t. Ridiculous.

facehugger99

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Hard to understand people getting excited about intercounty travel from mid next month. Just go now. There's been nothing to stop you for a good month

It's honestly difficult to understand the subservience on display.

This is our country not Tony Holihan's.

Go wherever you want to go.

There's not even checkpoints that you need to bullsh;t your way through.

Captain_Crash

While I think it’s too little too late, (as in, the damage has been done) its good that we are finally seeing some sense amongst government. I’m going to try and focus on looking forward as the sh*tshow we have all watched over the last few months can’t be changed.

But I’ve one question really! What on Earth happened yesterday too see such a huge change in direction?? 24 hours earlier there was rumours of nothing much changing till July! Who said what for it all to be brought forward in the space of literal hours?!?

Leftwaffe

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

No they won’t. Ridiculous.

So you’re telling me everything that is opening in this phased relaxation of restrictions will not close again due to public health guidance on COVID-19?

I just want to be sure on this.

_Kaiser_

Captain_Crash wrote: »

While I think it’s too little too late, (as in, the damage has been done) its good that we are finally seeing some sense amongst government. I’m going to try and focus on looking forward as the sh*tshow we have all watched over the last few months can’t be changed.

But I’ve one question really! What on Earth happened yesterday too see such a huge change in direction?? 24 hours earlier there was rumours of nothing much changing till July! Who said what for it all to be brought forward in the space of literal hours?!?

It's a very good question really. I'd say Micheal was put under pressure by both elements within his own party who already want him gone , FG, and the fact that the finances are so bad that they've already been downplaying the ending of the supports and the potential of austerity measures in the last few days.

That and it's blatantly obvious that most people are ignoring them anyway

prunudo

Its not a certainty but it would be naive to think there isn't a threat of some sort of lockdown/restrictions next winter.
It also worries me that they can change their tune and tone in such a short space of time. Much of what is rummoured is overdue but why the sudden change in approach.

_Kaiser_

prunudo wrote: »

Its not a certainty but it would be naive to think there isn't a threat of some sort of lockdown/restrictions next winter.
It also worries me that they can change their tune and tone in such a short space of time. Much of what is rummoured is overdue but why the sudden change in approach.

Suppose it could also be that AGS pushed back because of the impact on morale and the deterioration of their relationship with the general public, and - like last year - the overtime has run out.

facehugger99

prunudo wrote: »

Its not a certainty but it would be naive to think there isn't a threat of some sort of lockdown/restrictions next winter.
It also worries me that they can change their tune and tone in such a short space of time. Much of what is rummoured is overdue but why the sudden change in approach.

Northern Ireland has effectively dragged us kicking and screaming back to normality

prunudo

facehugger99 wrote: »

Northern Ireland has effectively dragged us kicking and screaming back to normality

A sentence I never thought I would read!

dalyboy

Captain_Crash wrote: »

While I think it’s too little too late, (as in, the damage has been done) its good that we are finally seeing some sense amongst government. I’m going to try and focus on looking forward as the sh*tshow we have all watched over the last few months can’t be changed.

But I’ve one question really! What on Earth happened yesterday too see such a huge change in direction?? 24 hours earlier there was rumours of nothing much changing till July! Who said what for it all to be brought forward in the space of literal hours?!?

I was thinking the sale thing RE the accelerator being applied. On Tuesday night there was a late night meeting with MM , sleepy Ryan and pascal Donahue. The result of this meeting may have been the contributing factor in acceleration of the lifting of restrictions.

With this theory obviously there’s good news (relaxation) and bad news (economic).

Theboinkmaster

Leftwaffe wrote: »

So you’re telling me everything that is opening in this phased relaxation of restrictions will not close again due to public health guidance on COVID-19?

I just want to be sure on this.

Yes

facehugger99

Following the meeting at Government Buildings, Minister for Transport Eamon Ryan said that the Cabinet will not depart from NPHET's advice on easing restrictions.

If anything summed up the spinelessness of our democratically elected 'leaders'.

Just a reminder that these lads are pulling down well north of 6-figures to come out with this subservient bullsh;t.

What a pathetic and contemptable bunch of arseholes we have in Leinster House.

copeyhagen

prunudo wrote: »

Its not a certainty but it would be naive to think there isn't a threat of some sort of lockdown/restrictions next winter.
It also worries me that they can change their tune and tone in such a short space of time. Much of what is rummoured is overdue but why the sudden change in approach.

they have ran out of money and need to cut 12bn.. was posted here a few days ago

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=newssearch&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjMl8zK86LwAhVEsXEKHQYNDrQQxfQBCDMwAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishexaminer.com%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2Farid-40274552.html&usg=AOvVaw1JcwjRHe15cgAb6hGyoeXy

theyre broke..

prunudo

copeyhagen wrote: »

they have ran out of money and need to cut 12bn.. was posted here a few days ago

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=newssearch&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjMl8zK86LwAhVEsXEKHQYNDrQQxfQBCDMwAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishexaminer.com%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2Farid-40274552.html&usg=AOvVaw1JcwjRHe15cgAb6hGyoeXy

theyre broke..

Or in other words they are broke but we will have to pay for it. Was it ever going to be any other way.

_Kaiser_

copeyhagen wrote: »

id say a few posters here were up all night losing sleep at the mere prospect of leaving lockdown.....

Listening to NT this morning they have already had a professor of genetics on worrying (they even quoted her in the 8am headlines) and texters lamenting that the government haven't waited a few more weeks.

The psychological damage caused by the last year is immense and will take a lot longer to fix for some people.

The Nutty M

Sammy2012 wrote: »

What's peoples take on foreign travel this summer? Do you think quarantine and tests will be required in August?

Looking from the outside in,IMO they are trying to contain people within the country. Make them all happy and excited about having a sandwich or pint outside in the cold while all the time gradually adding European MHQ countries to a list.
Italy
Austria
Belgium
Andorra
France
Luxembourg
Monaco
Serbia

To be announced possibly
Netherlands
Romania
Czech Republic
Switzerland
Lichtenstein

When you put an X through all them countries on a map of Europe,the list grows small of possible countries to go on holiday/non essential travel to. When the list is small,more focused policing is made easier. The boiling frog analogy is very apt.

Don't Chute!

I get the distinct feeling we are all seemingly supposed to collapse down upon our knees and prostrate ourselves in blessed thanks that our Lord and Masters have seen fit to grant us such freedoms. Sorry lads won’t be happening.

Jinglejangle69

The fact they are only doing this as we're broke and the penny has dropped says it all.

Boggles

Don't Chute! wrote: »

I get the distinct feeling we are all seemingly supposed to collapse down upon our knees and prostrate ourselves in blessed thanks that our Lord and Masters have seen fit to grant us such freedoms. Sorry lads won’t be happening.

You staying at level 6?

Good for you.

Haircuts for everyone else.

Boggles

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

The fact they are only doing this as we're broke and the penny has dropped says it all.

Or we have actually secured vaccines and a vaccination plan.

Much like we were told what would happen.

Q2.

Boggles

Don't Chute! wrote: »

I meant I won’t be prostrating myself but of course you knew that didn’t you?

TBH I don't think anyone cares what you do TBF.

You seem to have over personalized the pandemic to the extent where you have created goodies and baddies.

It's not a healthy mindset.

ArthurDayne

charlie14 wrote: »

If anyone is attempting to change the goalposts here I`m afraid it is very much you Arthur. Along with a fair old measure of avoidance as well.


One of the aims of lockdown was to prevent health services from being over-run. Something we saw, and are still seeing, in countries before lockdowns were introduced. Far as I recall one of your points has been that ours was not over-run as shown by our I.C.U. numbers.
Low infection numbers will ensure lower hospitalisations and thus lower numbers requiring I.C.U. To believe lockdown played no part is denying reality Arthur.


Apparently your idea as to what level of restrictions we should have had all along are those you listed in your last post.
Those were tried in Sweden. Still are. Looking at their data, that`s a bullet we would not have missed following your alternative to lockdown.

For what it's worth Charlie, I admire the quality of your posts and your tenacity in argument -- but I am sorry that I do have to repeat myself -- because even in the course of your last few posts to me you have twisted what I have said and subtly tried to change the goalposts. Another problem is that, like Boggles, you seem to just be bestowing opinions on me out of the blue to convince yourself that I am arguing something I'm not. At what point exactly did I say that lockdowns have played no part in minimising infection? This is undeniable -- lockdowns can work but the issue is (a) they cannot be sustained indefinitely without huge damage and eventual lapse (b) when they do lapse, in a situation where Covid has become endemic, then you run the risk that when a lockdown-weary population is given.any sniff of freedom you will have an entire nation simultaneously doing the things they miss doing -- and with that comes spread like wildfire.

But we are not talking about "minimising infection" because minimising infection outright is not what the State's strategy ever has been -- because minimising infection outright is effectively a Zero Covid strategy. Strangely though, in the very same post, you then go on to shift the goalposts again -- though at least on this occasion to the right place -- to saying that it was to prevent healthcare being overrun.

So, now that we are back to the correct argument, and you have accused me of vague mumblings, i am once again offering you the chance to show me how clear and definitive your argument is. So can you please explain to me the data justifying how each of the individual example measures (hairdressers being closed along with hotels / restaurants / bars, distance limits being in place) are contributing to preventing healthcare from overrun and by what percentage their alleviation would increase the risk of the healthcare system being overrun?

dalyboy

The Nutty M wrote: »

Looking from the outside in,IMO they are trying to contain people within the country. Make them all happy and excited about having a sandwich or pint outside in the cold while all the time gradually adding European MHQ countries to a list.
Italy
Austria
Belgium
Andorra
France
Luxembourg
Monaco
Serbia

To be announced possibly
Netherlands
Romania
Czech Republic
Switzerland
Lichtenstein

When you put an X through all them countries on a map of Europe,the list grows small of possible countries to go on holiday/non essential travel to. When the list is small,more focused policing is made easier. The boiling frog analogy is very apt.

Good luck to them policing the exodus to Belfast airport come June 7th when the country travel is allowed.

_Kaiser_

Don't Chute! wrote: »

This coming from YOU? Absolutely laughable. I’d say you’re in some bad mood today. De man on de tellys grip on running your life for you is slipping.....

I think a lot of the resistance generally is borne of the point that relaxed restrictions and the imminent financial issues will mean the ending of PUP and other supports, and those who have been sitting at home comfortably pontificating will now have to go back to the office which won't suit them at all.

Graham

ArthurDayne wrote: »

But we are not talking about "minimising infection" because minimising infection outright is not what the State's strategy ever has been -- because minimising infection outright is effectively a Zero Covid strategy.

Tosh

The strategy for most countries globally has included minimising infection, it's a pretty sensible strategy during a pandemic.

Boggles

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I think a lot of the resistance generally is borne of the point that relaxed restrictions and the imminent financial issues will mean the ending of PUP and other supports, and those who have been sitting at home comfortably pontificating will now have to go back to the office which won't suit them at all.

I literally don't know anyone that would not jump at the chance of going back to the office tomorrow.

The craic fell out of that one around May last year.

FintanMcluskey

Boggles wrote: »

I literally don't know anyone that would not jump at the chance of going back to the office tomorrow.

The craic fell out of that one around May last year.

I literally don’t know anyone who wouldn’t want to go back

Stuck working and living at home is a borderline hermit lifestyle

Some people enjoy the social aspect of work

Jinglejangle69

Boggles wrote: »

Or we have actually secured vaccines and a vaccination plan.

Much like we were told what would happen.

Q2.

The whole rhetoric changed drastically within a few days.

MM only saying a few days ago it's an outdoor summer.

Anyway thank god they changed their minds, whether vaccine or finances.

I thought NPHET's and the governments dastardly plan was to keep us in lockdown forever?