Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

paw patrol

Boggles wrote: »

Again it's not my opinion, it's the official numbers backed up by what a federation leader has been saying.

Plus actual reality



To put that in context it's a similar level to q1 in 2019, i.e. pre pandemic.

Remember the contention is there has been no construction since December.

I can get you quotes if you wish.

house building is a subset of construction.

you have ignored the 1000s of small builder who do work like house extensions/driveways/walls that type of thing. They were hung out to dry by the state.

at this stage you are either willfully ignorant or on a wind up

Stormyteacup

ypres5 wrote: »

Something like an article or something from the government or a construction union would do, that's not impossible at all if what you're saying is true...

Cmon get with the program/whitewashing of restrictions.

Construction did not close. All construction continued throughout with all workers in full employment.

You could get a passport at any time in just four days.

5km was the exactly correct distance to restrict movement to - and was proportionate at all times, up to the exact time it was abolished, which was the exact correct time to abolish it.

All outdoor activity and ‘click and collect’ is risky because the associated shenanigans are deadly dangerous, except when they are sanctioned - then it’s fine.

The government is not lead by NPHET, and have done a brilliant job because they got children back in schools, they may have been slow about it but it was a huge achievement. They had to rebuild schools, hire staff, implement safety protocols completely different to pre-Christmas, and make brand new curriculums. It wasn’t as simple as saying ‘ok schools can open’, you know.

finalfurlong

the kelt wrote: »

This is the thing. We are still running at 400/500 cases a day and hospilisations are still falling. We need to be cautious of course but not utterly pessimistic.

Cases are irrelevant now, almost a meaningless metric now, we have to remember cases at the moment are being driven by the multitude of pop up test centres around the country where anyone who feels like it can have a test, what would they be without those centres?

I can see the pace of restriction easing being accelerated but still a bit concerned hearing MM talking about case numbers still as if they are the solid metric they once were.

Agree.If you watch the numbers being tested it has jumped by 15-20% over last month.The gross figure of positives will rise but if you see the positivity rate it has actually been steady or falling-yesterday the 7 day rate was 2.6%.Cant see this being highlighted but it should be.You would think this trend continuing should trump any knee jerk reactions to gross case numbers

Boggles

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Construction did not close. All construction continued throughout with all workers in full employment.

No one claimed that, the claim was all construction closed.

Obviously that is demonstrable false.

Stormyteacup wrote: »

You could get a passport at any time in just four days.

Well I don't know about 4 days, but you could certainly get a passport, 430,000 issued during the pandemic (Minister of Foreign Affairs), plus a poster on here linking to proof he got his.

But yeah white washing.

SAMTALK

Boggles wrote: »

Does one swallow make a summer?

Certain sites were closed, the contention on here is there wasn't a brick laid or wiring ran since December.

It's nonsense.

A lot of individual house builds stayed going where I'm from.

I also viewed a house a month ago and put in an offer, ( accepted )

Officially things were stopped but like hairdressers, beauticians etc a lot of things continued behind closed doors

Boggles

SAMTALK wrote: »

A lot of individual house builds stayed going where I'm from.

I also viewed a house a month ago and put in an offer, ( accepted )

Officially things were stopped but like hairdressers, beauticians etc a lot of things continued behind closed doors

Congrats.

There will be someone along shortly to tell you that didn't happen though.

Graham

the kelt wrote: »

This is the thing. We are still running at 400/500 cases a day and hospilisations are still falling. We need to be cautious of course but not utterly pessimistic.

Cases are irrelevant now, almost a meaningless metric now, we have to remember cases at the moment are being driven by the multitude of pop up test centres around the country where anyone who feels like it can have a test, what would they be without those centres?

I can see the pace of restriction easing being accelerated but still a bit concerned hearing MM talking about case numbers still as if they are the solid metric they once were.

I don't think case numbers are irrelevant now but their use as an indicator/advanced warning for hospitalisations/deaths will need to change.

As the vaccination program protects more people case numbers may not be the precursor to rising hospitalisation and deaths that it was previously.

That in itself is very relevant information.

Stormyteacup

Boggles wrote: »

No one claimed that, the claim was all construction closed.

Obviously that is demonstrable false.





Well I don't know about 4 days, but you could certainly get a passport, 430,000 issued during the pandemic (Minister of Foreign Affairs), plus a poster on here linking to proof he got his.

But yeah white washing.

Yes construction was open throughout and anyone who wasn’t working on a site was doing nixers- don’t know what the fuss was about.

And yes anyone could at anytime apply for a passport and it would have been processed timely.

No whitewashing at all.

SAMTALK

Boggles wrote: »

Congrats.

There will be someone along shortly to tell you that didn't happen though.

I have no doubt. !

Boggles

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Yes construction was open throughout and anyone who wasn’t working on a site was doing nixers- don’t know what the fuss was about.

And yes anyone could at anytime apply for a passport and it would have been processed timely.

No whitewashing at all.

We back to playing 'Things that were never said'?

gozunda

themacattack. wrote: »

yea you said it yourself so most of under 65s that might end up in hospital would have an underlying condition...i know a 29 year old type 1 diabetic got their first shot of moderna last week....second shot in 2 weeks so fully vaccinated....restrictions are done,no hospitilisations or very little why would any government re-introduce restrictions even if cases are increasing

Re. The government- well I didn't say they would. But as that you mention it ...

https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-germanys-emergency-brake-rules-take-effect/a-57321750

They're ahead of us with vaccinations as well.

I thought the Modena vaccine had a 4 week interval btw?

FintanMcluskey

For the love of god will someone tell Tom Parlon that he’s been talking waffle

The evidence is right here

SAMTALK

Why people can't see the positives is something I can't understand. Restrictions have been eased which is what posters have been shouting for , Tony Holohan hasn't barred alcohol, hasn't kept us locked-down until 2022 and has agreed to easing restrictions so he isn't the devil after all

The government have shown us a road map , which is what people have been shouting for and yet that's not good enough and the only reason they have eased the restriction is for financial reason .

Look on the bright side, we are getting back to some sort of normality and there is a plan. Fingers crossed the vaccines stay on tract and all goes to plan

Boggles

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

For the love of god will someone tell Tom Parlon that he’s been talking waffle

Wouldn't be the first time TBF.

Necro

PowerToWait wrote: »

The reaction to the latest developments proves my suspicion that anti restrictions types are in the main a sour bunch of whining drama queens. Not necessarily those posting on this thread, of course.

No matter what happens, they predict worse times ahead. Holohan is the devil and will do this and that despite CLEAR evidence to the contrary.

All the utter misery they predicted has failed to come to pass. I really think they enjoyed the lockdown for the opportunity to whine and moan every moment of every day. Now it’s coming to an end they are still whinging and bitching.

ypres5 wrote: »

This is just boggles little rabbit hole he likes to lead people down. He makes this grand sweeping statement about construction and when confronted for evidence he becomes uncharacteristically evasive and plays persecuted over the span of several days. Just leave him to his daydreams about the construction industry and move on.

Both of you once again ignore the mod warnings in the OP and the one posted yesterday, both of you are now threadbanned

suicide_circus

Happy with the lifting of restrictions.

Not happy that it took so long to lift them and the associated damage we will wrestle with for years.

Not that tough to understand

finalfurlong

finalfurlong wrote: »

Agree.If you watch the numbers being tested it has jumped by 15-20% over last month.The gross figure of positives will rise but if you see the positivity rate it has actually been steady or falling-yesterday the 7 day rate was 2.6%.Cant see this being highlighted but it should be.You would think this trend continuing should trump any knee jerk reactions to gross case numbers

Maybe just maybe this is the trend that is actually feeding into the decision making process

And - testing has dropped 3% in a month and positives by 20%

SAMTALK

suicide_circus wrote: »

Happy with the lifting of restrictions.

Not happy that it took so long to lift them and the associated damage we will wrestle with for years.

Not that tough to understand

I wouldnt imagine anyone is happy with length of restrictions, whether you can understand them or not, or the damage to our economy

The calls have been for lifting of restrictions and a plan. We now have this and vaccine rollout which is all positives.

paw patrol

SAMTALK wrote: »

Why people can't see the positives is something I can't understand. Restrictions have been eased which is what posters have been shouting for , Tony Holohan hasn't barred alcohol, hasn't kept us locked-down until 2022 and has agreed to easing restrictions so he isn't the devil after all

The government have shown us a road map , which is what people have been shouting for and yet that's not good enough and the only reason they have eased the restriction is for financial reason .

Look on the bright side, we are getting back to some sort of normality and there is a plan. Fingers crossed the vaccines stay on tract and all goes to plan

sure I'm happier a few sectors like hairdressing and outdoor pubs/restaurants will open soon. But so much restrictions remain...all the indoor stuff.
Lets hold off on the champagne - Tesco Value prosecco will do for now.

Don't forget the caveat from Micheal Martin saying he "will not be afraid to intervene" (his words). That means that the opening plan isn't in stone.
It's all temporary and can be removed on the whim of somebody be that MM or Dr Tony.

Its easy to open up in the summer , wait till winter and they'll sh1t the bed cos that's when respiratory illnesses peak. always has been always will be.
Lets us see - they messed us about so much in the last year so as the man once said

fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.

suicide_circus

SAMTALK wrote: »

I wouldnt imagine anyone is happy with length of restrictions, whether you can understand them or not, or the damage to our economy

Wrong. People blindly supported the continuation of restrictions despite the vulnerable being largely vaccinated and falling cases and icu numbers.

Boggles

paw patrol wrote: »

Its easy to open up in the summer , wait till winter and they'll sh1t the bed cos that's when respiratory illnesses peak. always has been always will be.

Pressure on hospitals remained high as the number of coronavirus patients in ICU rose above 6,000 again for the first time since spring 2020

Longest winter ever in France.

Global warming?

SAMTALK

paw patrol wrote: »

sure I'm happier a few sectors like hairdressing and outdoor pubs/restaurants will open soon. But so much restrictions remain...all the indoor stuff.
Lets hold off on the champagne - Tesco Value prosecco will do for now.

Don't forget the caveat from Micheal Martin saying he "will not be afraid to intervene" (his words). That means that the opening plan isn't in stone.
It's all temporary and can be removed on the whim of somebody be that MM or Dr Tony.

Its easy to open up in the summer , wait till winter and they'll sh1t the bed cos that's when respiratory illnesses peak. always has been always will be.
Lets us see - they messed us about so much in the last year so as the man once said

They were hardly going to open everything up at once . Life was never going to return to normal in one go and I think we all know it's not written in stone .

We have to take the vaccinations into account as well though.

paw patrol

Boggles wrote: »

Longest winter ever in France.

Global warming?

France jaysis wept. Yesterday it was India.
I can't keep up with your mental globe hopping.

We'll be a while going through all 294 countries in the world to compare them to ireland. In fairness - I hope my work from home continues that long.

SAMTALK

suicide_circus wrote: »

Wrong. People blindly supported the continuation of restrictions despite the vulnerable being largely vaccinated and falling cases and icu numbers.

Not all vaccinated yet and i think most people could see that there would be some changes to restrictions coming

paw patrol

SAMTALK wrote: »

They were hardly going to open everything up at once . Life was never going to return to normal in one go and I think we all know it's not written in stone .

We have to take the vaccinations into account as well though.

I get you.
We are where we are - i'm hopeful ( i really am) but I don't trust the government/NPHET.
We have seen many goalposts move in the past. And an unwillingness to allow people decide their own risk tolerance.

I'll hold off the champagne for now .

SAMTALK wrote: »

Not all vaccinated yet and i think most people could see that there would be some changes to restrictions coming

a huge chunk are and we cant hold back cos a few people are delayed.
Those people should isolate (as they see fit) till they are called.

gozunda

ArthurDayne wrote: »

Yep there you go....you won't actually tell us what the tolerable threshold of minisation was . And so, because you can just set whatever parameter you find handy today, here you are telling us that with 5,000 people dead and a year of socioeconomically destructive restrictions - the policy has worked well. But if the policy was just "minimisation" -- why isn't it just 4,000 dead, or 3,000 dead, or 2,000 dead?

If another guy came along today and said oh well i actually think "minimising Covid" would have meant far stronger measures and permanent Level 5 for a year ...what would your argument be then? You'd probably say something like Covid was minimised to just about a tolerable level right ?

So what is tolerable? You tell me ...like forget the government strategy for a second and just give me your own personal tolerable threshold. Or do you just want to keep sitting on that fence where you don't have to ask yourself the hard questions and blame anyone who at least tries?

Well no. That's just silly Arthur.

What I said was

As to your idea of a "tolerable threshold"? Why do you believe that somehow can be measured?

Are you asking me to speculate or are doing so yourself?

It's your idea. So perhaps you could give us some how it should work? Countries which have employed such a strategy? Anything?

That said it simply sounds like some you've latched on to that to beat others with whom you don't agree with over the head as a big stick tbh.

But yes on a global scale - our death and infection rate are low and unfortunately every country on the planet has suffered serious economic consequences because of the Pandemic. No one is denying that.

You say "If another guy came along today..."? once again you seem to be floundering in the uncharted waters of speculation. Something which I find generally serves little purpose in any discussion tbh.

Perhaps someone with the relevant pandemic control qualifications would be better able to accurately answer those type of questions 

And Arthur no one is "blaming" anyone

Ms.Sunshine

When do you think foreign travel can happen?
What’s currently happening with flights to the UK does anybody know ? Would love to visit family there in July

paw patrol

paw patrol wrote: »

France jaysis wept. Yesterday it was India.
I can't keep up with your mental globe hopping.

We'll be a while going through all 294 countries in the world to compare them to ireland. In fairness - I hope my work from home continues that long.

Why is there such a great love of comparing how much fewer restrictions other places have, but as soon as anyone suggest comparing the epidemiological situation its all "how could you possibly compare this European country with a temperature climate to Ireland, its completely different"

SAMTALK

[QU
a huge chunk are and we can hold back cos a few people are delayed.
Those people should isolate (as they see fit) till they are called.[/QUOTE]

We're not holding back, we are easing restrictions.

We can't just say. "ok folks that's it , back to the way we were please "

I would prefer to see it done the way they have planned as opposed to open everything up and sure we'll see how it goes.

The thought of another lockdown is just too depressing to contemplate

Boggles

paw patrol wrote: »

France jaysis wept. Yesterday it was India.

I'd imagine Jesus has a rudimentary understanding of geography and seasons.

So what season is it currently in France, you know the country that 600 miles away and we have several ferry crossings for?

paw patrol

Deleted User wrote: »

Why is there such a great love of comparing how much fewer restrictions other places have, but as soon as anyone suggest comparing the epidemiological situation its all "how could you possibly compare this European country with a temperature climate to Ireland, its completely different"

short answer : cos its the internet.

longer answer: I don't know tbh. But lets try discuss

Sweden wasn't acceptable as a comparison when it suited my (anti lockdown) argument in times gone by. In fact , I recall posters denying Sweden even existing. :pac:

But you want to debate France.

16hours ago the BBC reports that EVERYTHING bar nightclubs will be open in France. I love a niteclub - at my age i probably shouldn't but I do - but that is acceptable me. VIE LA FRANCE

For your pleasure:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56934746

Keyzer

Sammy2012 wrote: »

Leo mentioned on Prime Time the money being used is borrowed money and will have to be repaid and now Pascal Donohoe is on with Matt Cooper about the supports and the fact we are borrowing for all these supports and things will have to be repaid. And so it beings. Reality is finally starting to hit. Hence the quicker reopening. There is no choice.

They'll p1ss off in a few years anyway and leave to some poor saps to sort it out.

Necro

Ms.Sunshine wrote: »

When do you think foreign travel can happen?
What’s currently happening with flights to the UK does anybody know ? Would love to visit family there in July

UK is fine..ish. You just need a PCR testing negative heading out and to isolate on your return I believe. No MHQ anyways

Graham

paw patrol wrote: »

But you want to debate France.

16hours ago the BBC reports that EVERYTHING bar nightclubs will be open in France. I love a niteclub - at my age i probably shouldn't but I do - but that is acceptable me. VIE LA FRANCE

Schools to reopen in May.
Curfew to be pushed back a few hours late May.
Curfew to be pushed back to 11pm in June
Nighclubs aimed to be open in July.

paw patrol

Keyzer wrote: »

They'll p1ss off in a few years anyway and leave to some poor saps to sort it out.

100% , it'll be the teenagers they demonised for the past year and the same students that Simon Harris and Helen McEntee demanded severe punishment for left paying this off for generations while being unable to afford a half decent home :mad:

Multipass

Necro wrote: »

UK is fine..ish. You just need a PCR testing negative heading out and to isolate on your return I believe. No MHQ anyways

You don’t need a pcr test going over, it’s coming back that you need one within 72 hours of travel. It’s tricky as the more affordable tests have at least 48 hour turnaround. It’s a lot of money for the faster ones.

Boggles

Ms.Sunshine wrote: »

When do you think foreign travel can happen?
What’s currently happening with flights to the UK does anybody know ? Would love to visit family there in July

Once they sort a standardized cert, and a high level of vaccination, travel will take off again.

It's not all doom and gloom.

The vast vast vast majority of our visitors come from the UK and Europe.

Then Canada and the US.

Ireland welcomed 10,807,500 people from the UK, Europe, USA and Canada and other countries to its shores last year.

Trips made to Ireland by residents of the UK increased by 0.8% in 2019 to 3,787,700 while trips by residents of European countries excluding the UK increased by 2.6% to 3,910,200.

Trips by residents of USA and Canada to Ireland increased by 1.2% to 2,412,500 while trips to Ireland from other countries increased by 5.5% to 697,200.

In December of last year, the total number of trips to Ireland rose 5.5% to 779,200 compared to that of 2018

Obviously we won't see numbers like that for some time, but it's not a surmountable task to set up bridges with the bulk of our tourism base.

paw patrol

Graham wrote: »

Schools to reopen in May.
Curfew to be pushed back a few hours late May.
Curfew to be pushed back to 11pm in June
Nighclubs aimed to be open in July.

everything open by july , seems reasonable to me

I'd take that over

Mr Martin said he is “full of sympathy for the situation”, but activities, such as pubs and nightclubs will be considered at the end of June for later in the year.

[Indo]

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Why is there such a great love of comparing how much fewer restrictions other places have, but as soon as anyone suggest comparing the epidemiological situation its all "how could you possibly compare this European country with a temperature climate to Ireland, its completely different"

For the love of dog - whatever you do don't mention the "I" word :eek:

Stormyteacup

Deleted User wrote: »

Why is there such a great love of comparing how much fewer restrictions other places have, but as soon as anyone suggest comparing the epidemiological situation its all "how could you possibly compare this European country with a temperature climate to Ireland, its completely different"

Likely at this point we can agree that currently the virus spreads in waves outside of traditional virus season, but also that a peak respiratory illness season does exist.

Countries experiencing a wave of infections are highlighted and held up as a cautionary tale that we are at risk of similar here. There are patterns, and if you suppress the spread with restrictions which are subsequently lifted then infections will increase, and measures will be put in place to tackle the spread until reasonably under control - then rinse and repeat.

Not many countries escaped waves of infection once the virus infected the population in sufficient numbers. It’s just a bit pointless comparing countries in the middle of a wave to other countries at different stages of control.

That’s different to comparing countries that are at a similar stage of control and noting lesser or greater restrictions being employed and the effects they have on infection control.

Graham

paw patrol wrote: »

everything open by july , seems reasonable to me

I'd take that over



[Indo]

France currently have a 14day case rate six times ours.

I'd rather be starting from where we are with a much lower risk of any restrictions being reapplied.

paw patrol

paw patrol wrote: »

everything open by july , seems reasonable to me

I'd take that over



[Indo]

France? 7pm to 6am curfew France??? I'm pretty sure there's a French version of you out there somewhere bemoaning their lockdown status and wondering why they can't be curfew-free like Ireland.

paw patrol

Deleted User wrote: »

France? 7pm to 6am curfew France??? I'm pretty sure there's a French version of you out there somewhere bemoaning their lockdown status and wondering why they can't be curfew-free like Ireland.

there may be a french me and more power to him
But i guarantee he would read the article quoted before commenting.

Graham

paw patrol wrote: »

there may be a french me and more power to him
But i guarantee he would read the article quoted before commenting.

You'd rather we currently had a 7pm curfew and 6 times the case numbers?

Odd

pjohnson

Graham wrote: »

You'd rather we currently had a 7pm curfew and 6 times the case numbers?

Odd

Remember Ireland has had the most severe lockdown in the world since this started.

Curfews dont count as restrictions and havent for months :pac:

Windmill100000

SAMTALK wrote: »

Why people can't see the positives is something I can't understand. Restrictions have been eased which is what posters have been shouting for , Tony Holohan hasn't barred alcohol, hasn't kept us locked-down until 2022 and has agreed to easing restrictions so he isn't the devil after all

The government have shown us a road map , which is what people have been shouting for and yet that's not good enough and the only reason they have eased the restriction is for financial reason .

Look on the bright side, we are getting back to some sort of normality and there is a plan. Fingers crossed the vaccines stay on tract and all goes to plan

It's easy to understand, really. If you have pushed the agenda we are all screwed to try and turn people to your way of thinking (which never took off in any significant way beyond online rants anyway) and then we get concrete proof said agenda is not happening, they still need to hold on to the negative in any way possible to save face.

paw patrol

Graham wrote: »

You'd rather we currently had a 7pm curfew and 6 times the case numbers?

Odd

And despite all that sh1tstorm , they will have everything open by july
while we thank Michael Martin profusely for allowing us go to the gym from June 7th.
That's odd.

SAMTALK

Windmill100000 wrote: »

It's easy to understand, really. If you have pushed the agenda we are all screwed to try and turn people to your way of thinking (which never took off in any significant way beyond online rants anyway) and then we get concrete proof said agenda is not happening, they still need to hold on to the negative in any way possible to save face.

I just don't understand how people can insinuate the Government and NPHET want us under their thumbs, it's all about control and taking away our rights, destroying the country etc, banning alcohol and so on and so on...

It's like we are the only country dealing with the virus and it's a ploy to a dictatorship where we will be controlled forever

is_that_so

They are going mad up north!

Hundreds of customers queued outside branches of Primark in Northern Ireland this morning as non-essential retail reopened.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0430/1212957-ni-covid-19/

B2021M

So the Heineken Cup final is set for Twickenham in May and may feature Leinster and/or Ulster...with fans allowed to attend. Does this include travelling fans and if so what was the point of us not hosting the Euro 2020 matches??