Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

sporina

i assume hotels can serve food/beer to residents?

charlie14

munchkin_utd wrote: »

I'll quote the boss....


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-five-further-deaths-and-461-new-cases-reported-as-a-quarter-of-adults-get-first-vaccine-1.4546874

For herd immunity you need to count kids and infants, not only "eligible adults"

Herd immunity is a totally different matter. That would be the ideal level to get to asap, but it has nothing to do with us re-opening based on the same phased re-opening as the U.K.

The U.K. 50% is based on their adult population, not their total population. Same metric we are using here.

Two days ago Ireland had administered 1,067,378 first doses and 419,665 second. That is over 28% of our adult population first dose and 11% second. I do not see by the end of the week that 28% figure will not be as near as makes no difference to 30%
With supply now being more reliable I really do see us being below that 50% level of the U.K. five weeks later when outdoor dining and outdoor pub service opens on June 7th.

charlie14

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

We ain’t scientific pioneers, we’ve been the globes most suppressed & cautious nation for 14 months

Why the change?

The moneys gone

Simple as

And eh, we are reopening to align with the rest of the world, not become more relaxed

Eh, we are reopening in line with the scientific data. It`s nothing to do with what the rest of the world may decide to chance their arm on.

Simple as

paddyisreal

charlie14 wrote: »

Paddy like a few others you are probably spending to much time here and have become unaware of how the real world is. Presently we are at 30% first dose and 11% second vaccinated.

Myself and a few others have been saying that the science for phased re-opening was there in the U.K. data for anyone who wished to see it.
Their phased re-opening for outdoor dining and outdoor pub service was based on a 50% first dose vaccination level. By June 7th. I`m confident we will have reached that percentage level or even higher.

But there are numerous restrictions being lifted on the 10th of may when we will not be within an arses roar of 50 percent and that's a fact of the real world as you call it. You have changed the position to 50 percent for outdoor dining

Stormyteacup

charlie14 wrote: »

Eh, we are reopening in line with the scientific data. It`s nothing to do with what the rest of the world may decide to chance their arm on.

Simple as

And if the plan had been more protracted and resembled kite flying over the past few weeks, the reopening would still be in line with the scientific data.

Really doesn’t seem to matter what NPHET decide to recommend, they will be spot on and perfectly in line with scientific data.

Graham

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

We ain’t scientific pioneers, we’ve been the globes most suppressed & cautious nation for 14 months

Why the change?

The moneys gone

Simple as

And eh, we are reopening to align with the rest of the world, not become more relaxed

Yeah, that must be it.

We're definitely, absolutely, one hundred percent not relaxing restrictions because we have manageable case numbers, low hospitalisations, lower death rates and a vaccination program.

Absolutely not.

No Sireee.

No way.


Better

scamalert

Stormyteacup wrote: »

And if the plan had been more protracted and resembled kite flying over the past few weeks, the reopening would still be in line with the scientific data.

Really doesn’t seem to matter what NPHET decide to recommend, they will be spot on and perfectly in line with scientific data.

i think in the big picture nphet are done, wont matter much what they talk anymore, in May we should see more vaccines then needed come in, so none of the excuses to holdfirm take it easy will dictate anything, as imagine gov have to look at the cost eventually and that will be greater disaster for all of us, but its topic for another thread.

Stormyteacup

Graham wrote: »

Yeah, that must be it.

We're definitely, absolutely, one hundred percent not relaxing restrictions because we have manageable case numbers, low hospitalisations, lower death rates and a vaccination program.

Absolutely not.

No Sireee.

No way.


Better

We had those weeks ago.

If we were waiting to see what happened in UK, was that a secret? What use were Philip Nolan’s highly scientific data-filled models in that case? Apparently forecasting easing of restrictions is hugely complex and a myriad of factors have a bearing.

But actually it was - UK seem okay, we’re good to go.

Graham

Stormyteacup wrote: »

And if the plan had been more protracted and resembled kite flying over the past few weeks, the reopening would still be in line with the scientific data.

Really doesn’t seem to matter what NPHET decide to recommend, they will be spot on and perfectly in line with scientific data.

You understand that there's no scientific data calendar with a set reopening date and time don't you? That we've collected more data over the last few weeks. That we've been able to monitor the impact of restrictions being eased in the UK.

Graham

Stormyteacup wrote: »

We had those weeks ago.

and what did we do?

Relax restrictions

Monitored the impact

Relaxed the restrictions some more

Stormyteacup

scamalert wrote: »

i think in the big picture nphet are done, wont matter much what they talk anymore, in May we should see more vaccines then needed come in, so none of the excuses to holdfirm take it easy will dictate anything, as imagine gov have to look at the cost eventually and that will be greater disaster for all of us, but its topic for another thread.

I agree. About time too. Once normality is resuming they are relegated back to an advisory committee and not the main event running the show. The government will be mopping up for a long time though.

Dempo1

Just saw a playback of the NPHET news conference, I can't see Dr. Houlihan getting the freedom of Donegal, anytime soon.

Stormyteacup

Graham wrote: »

and what did we do?

Relax restrictions

Monitored the impact

Relaxed the restrictions some more

Well Graham that recipe you have there would apply to a 24 month easing of restrictions and to a 2 month easing of restrictions. But yes we have all the money and time in the world when it comes to easing of restrictions.

Graham

Stormyteacup wrote: »

But yes we have all the money and time in the world when it comes to easing of restrictions.

I hadn't realised these things come at a price. We should definitely tell that pandemic thingy to hurry things along.

In seriousness, there is no quick, easy, cheap way out of a pandemic. It takes as long as it takes and costs what it costs. One fantastic achievement we've witnessed so far is the unprecedented speed of vaccine development.

gozunda

paddyisreal wrote: »

Yeah really the science you and a few others here were quoting up to 2 days ago saying we have to wait till we had 50 percent vaccinations done. That fairly went out the window didn't it

Except afaik no one did. I know replied to one comment regarding 50% vaccination (based on the UK, Israel etc) as the possible min for a total re-opening. But apparently they weren't even happy with the fact we were already rolling back restrictions!

Amazing how stuff gets legs around here. Like I dunno saying scenes coming out of India were horrific or wtte and ending up being blamed for trying to get people locked up forever amongst other crimes against humanity...

Chinese whispers as it were but whispers that spouted multiple legs and were last seen climbing feking Carrauntoohil!

copeyhagen

Graham wrote: »

and what did we do?

Relax restrictions

Monitored the impact

Relaxed the restrictions some more

what was eased and monitored, the 5km (that people werent sticking to anyway) to 10km?

lol

Graham

copeyhagen wrote: »

what was eased and monitored, the 5km (that people werent sticking to anyway) to 10km?

lol

The restrictions and easing of are public record, Google will help.

You might start with schools reopening and work from there.

Stormyteacup

Graham wrote: »

I hadn't realised these things come at a price. We should definitely tell that pandemic thingy to hurry things along.

In seriousness, there is no quick, easy, cheap way out of a pandemic. It takes as long as it takes and costs what it costs. One fantastic achievement we've witnessed so far is the unprecedented speed of vaccine development.

Had you not? It has been discussed at length in this thread at least.

Cost/benefit analysis will be topical some time this year I reckon.

You sound like you have experience of the way out of a pandemic. Really though - ‘it takes as long as it takes and costs what it costs’?? So, no variation in countries’ debts racked up? Speed of vaccine development is a testament to scientific progression, we agree on that at least.

charlie14

paddyisreal wrote: »

But there are numerous restrictions being lifted on the 10th of may when we will not be within an arses roar of 50 percent and that's a fact of the real world as you call it. You have changed the position to 50 percent for outdoor dining

Not really.
You`re contention, and that of a few other on the governments hand being forced by NI until, now was on outdoor dining and pubs.
That is happening here on 7th. June when I expect we will have reached at least the 50% level.
Nothing much on the 10th of May that involves any level of people being in the same place at the same time. More a bit of a sweetener of encouragement for people that opening up is going ahead than much else imo

charlie14

Stormyteacup wrote: »

And if the plan had been more protracted and resembled kite flying over the past few weeks, the reopening would still be in line with the scientific data.

Really doesn’t seem to matter what NPHET decide to recommend, they will be spot on and perfectly in line with scientific data.

You do know don`t you how basically the timeline for this virus works ?
If there is a spike in infections it will show with new cases within 14 days more or less.
The U.K. began phased opening based on first dose of 50% 19 days ago. I would very much doubt NPHET were unaware of any of that when they made their recommendation to government.

vid36

charlie14 wrote: »

Herd immunity is a totally different matter. That would be the ideal level to get to asap, but it has nothing to do with us re-opening based on the same phased re-opening as the U.K.

The U.K. 50% is based on their adult population, not their total population. Same metric we are using here.

.

The UK 50% is based on their total population not just adult population. Over 34 million first doses.

Boggles

https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1388151707520151559

Folly can be expensive.

Dempo1

Not a popular opinion but here goes.

Something has changed dramatically with NPHET, Dr. Houlihan was aghast over those naughty people in Donegal claiming incidents rate is 3 times national average. Whilst I know he was on leave, perhaps he's not aware other counties, especially offaly were far worse only 2 weeks ago.

Media, government seem hell bent ignoring school outbreaks and closures of which there's been many, 4 Schools in Tullamore in the past 2 weeks.

New cases are not diminishing, today well over 500, oddly enough the same levels that Dr Glynn and professor Nolan said were far too high less than 2 weeks ago????

Let's be honest, the vacinne roll out less than inspiring, 27 changes to date, yes supply was an issue but I fear ineptitude closer to home has not helped. Apparently they are now thinking, vaccinate 40"s & 50"s at the same time, they haven't even started the 60"s yet. All well and good registering but when will they actually start? Seems to me this registration thing, just a ploy to appease growing frustrations, its meaningless if people are not getting vaccinated.

My humble sense is the new secretary General of the department of health is now calling the shots (no pun intended). Mr Watt, remember him and the outrageous salary. He's a money man, certainly no medical experience.

My sense is Government have actually eliminated a plan B if this goes pear shaped. All well and good Tony Houlihan saying its time to move on, the problem is, we've actually not moved at all. Hospital numbers painfully slow to reduce and ICU figures low, both great to see reductions but they are the only real positives.

So, Given NPHET"s and Tony Houlihans ultra cautious approach over the past 13 months, what's actually behind this sudden relaxing and positivity & dare I say ceasing all restrictions. I just hope it doesn't go Tits up, government won't get away with blaming a variant like they did after the last free for all at Christmas.

Dempo1

sporina wrote: »

i assume hotels can serve food/beer to residents?

Not sure about beers but certainly hotels have never stopped serving food to residents

Stormyteacup

charlie14 wrote: »

You do know don`t you how basically the timeline for this virus works ?
If there is a spike in infections it will show with new cases within 14 days more or less.
The U.K. began phased opening based on first dose of 50% 19 days ago. I would very much doubt NPHET were unaware of any of that when they made their recommendation to government.

Yes that’s the timeline generally accepted, except here where our government are happier with six week reviews;

‘Taoiseach Micheál Martin says the Government will decide in the week leading into April 5th on the level of restrictions that will apply for the following six weeks’

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/martin-says-government-will-review-covid-19-restrictions-first-week-of-april-1.4506741%3fmode=amp

Follow the science.

Penfailed

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Ah the ridiculous "conspiracy theory" dismissal eh? :rolleyes:

Holohan has a long standing problem with alcohol consumption and has successfully managed to create a two-tier pub system where "wet" pubs (a nonsense term if ever I've heard one) have been discriminated against in favour of "gastro" pubs - and even then he's managed to impose such limits on them that reopening in the current phase probably won't be worthwhile (like the publican on the 6.1news last night talking about his beer garden of 20 seats).

Then you have the Greens and DCC putting in new traffic restrictions everywhere using the "crisis" as a way to push them in (supporting outdoor dining /more cycling etc etc)

And even here we have people arguing that mask wearing as a permanent thing in some settings isn't a big deal and using "de safety" argument :rolleyes:

Feel free now to pick one line out of the above or a "witty" response that deliberately ignores the point now.

How did Holohan manage to create a two tier pub system in the north?

Imagine trying to promote and facilitate a safer place for cycling. The horror.

The sooner masks are consigned to the bin, the better.

Zebra3

“It’s all based on scientific data”.

Theatres and cinemas opening up start of June.

But not even 5% of sports venues’ capacities can be used.

Imagine trotting out that line. Embarrassed for some people.

Penfailed

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

I made a few enquiries on booking.com, in fairness i didnt notice any major price gouging. I had boked a few places provisionally last June weekend so i compared prices, very slight increase, in the 5% region so definitely not inflated

An increase of 5% is inflated.

Penfailed

paddyisreal wrote: »

As people on here forecast the government s hand forced by Northern Ireland. Had to bring everything forward, I'd say tony and co were cursing them.

This is simply wrong. If they wanted to keep things closed, they would have, irrespective of what is happening in the north.

Penfailed

paddyisreal wrote: »

hotels are open a week after Northern Ireland now, outdoor dining was July now it's early June and non essential brought forward weeks as well. It's as plainly obvious their hand was forced .
They know well no one in the county border areas is listening to them. I'd say half the cues outside pennies is from the south !

This would make sense if we were doing exactly what they are doing in the north right now. We're not.

Penfailed

PTH2009 wrote: »

A rise in cases the media all over it like a rash, scaremongering still going on

Scaremongering, or reporting the figures? Are you scared? If not, it's not working, is it?

charlie14

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Yes that’s the timeline generally accepted, except here where our government are happier with six week reviews;

‘Taoiseach Micheál Martin says the Government will decide in the week leading into April 5th on the level of restrictions that will apply for the following six weeks’

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/martin-says-government-will-review-covid-19-restrictions-first-week-of-april-1.4506741%3fmode=amp

Follow the science.

I don`t see what your point is, but then you may be unaware of the same being applied in the U.K. before they moved to their next level of reopening.

I. Vaccine deployment continues successfully
2. Vaccines are sufficiently reducing hospitalisation and deaths.
3. Infection rates do not risk a surge putting pressure on health services.
4. The risk is not fundamentally changed by new variants.

Pretty much the same as here when it comes to following the science don`t you think ?

Stormyteacup

charlie14 wrote: »

I don`t see what your point is, but then you may be unaware of the same being applied in the U.K. before they moved to their next level of reopening.

I. Vaccine deployment continues successfully
2. Vaccines are sufficiently reducing hospitalisation and deaths.
3. Infection rates do not risk a surge putting pressure on health services.
4. The risk is not fundamentally changed by new variants.

Pretty much the same as here when it comes to following the science don`t you think ?

Point was, you say;
‘You do know don`t you how basically the timeline for this virus works ?
If there is a spike in infections it will show with new cases within 14 days more or less.
The U.K. began phased opening based on first dose of 50% 19 days ago’

But a six week wait to assess is still following the science?

Either you need to ignore your numbered points above and the timeline for how this virus works is approx. 14 days, or factor them in and it’s not how the timeline for this virus works.

Can’t have it both ways, scientifically.

BrianD3

Dempo1 wrote: »

So, Given NPHET"s and Tony Houlihans ultra cautious approach over the past 13 months, what's actually behind this sudden relaxing and positivity & dare I say ceasing all restrictions.

It seems like a very short time ago when there was casual mention that intercounty travel might be "allowed" in June or July.

Restrictions lifted and according to Eamon Ryan, Holohan was in a "good mood" So by implication, was he in a "bad mood" when recommending more restrictions. It would be interesting to hear what exactly the 30 other members of NPHET actually contribute to the process or is it all about Nolan, Glynn, Henry and Holohan.

Remember near the start of the pandemic how Holohan felt ill at a press conference, went into hospital and then announced that it was very quiet in the hospital and people should go to hospital if they are sick. That was bizarre and I wondered what he was at.

I think what has happened with this restriction lifting is a combination of Northern Ireland, obvious lack of compliance with many restrictions here and maybe the government has only now become properly spooked about the economic situation. Time to establish a NEHET - National Economic Health Emergency Team?

charlie14

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Point was, you say;
‘You do know don`t you how basically the timeline for this virus works ?
If there is a spike in infections it will show with new cases within 14 days more or less.
The U.K. began phased opening based on first dose of 50% 19 days ago’

But a six week wait to assess is still following the science?

Either you need to ignore your numbered points above and the timeline for how this virus works is approx. 14 days, or factor them in and it’s not how the timeline for this virus works.

Can’t have it both ways, scientifically.

The point is you believed we were monitoring the re-opening of stage 2 differently to the U.K. You were wrong. We are following the exact same science.

What you are saying in the rest of your post, I have no idea.
The science and the timeline is simple enough. 19 days ago at a level of first dose vaccination the U.K. reopened their first phase.
5 days ago (14 after reopening) the data would have shown how successful that has been. It looks very good, so we announce we are following the same science and will reopen that phase in June 7th. when our first dose level will be basically the same as the U.K.s was when they reopened.

It`s not having it both ways. It`s exactly the same way.

charlie14

The convoluted efforts that are being made here that the easing of restrictions are due to Dr Tony Holohan, Glynn, Nolan whatever your having yourself etc. being in a good mood, or it was all about the money and nothing to do with vaccines are becoming as comical as they are bizarre.;)

PTH2009

I honestly wonder did they forget the 7th June is a bank holiday Monday

brickster69

The party looks to be in full swing tonight. Good on em

https://metro.co.uk/2021/04/30/liverpool-revellers-dance-hug-and-kiss-as-clubbing-returns-14503077/?ito=push-notification&ci=147587&si=22786189&ai=14503077

Stormyteacup

charlie14 wrote: »

The point is you believed we were monitoring the re-opening of stage 2 differently to the U.K. You were wrong. We are following the exact same science.

What you are saying in the rest of your post, I have no idea.
The science and the timeline is simple enough. 19 days ago at a level of first dose vaccination the U.K. reopened their first phase.
5 days ago (14 after reopening) the data would have shown how successful that has been. It looks very good, so we announce we are following the same science and will reopen that phase in June 7th. when our first dose level will be basically the same as the U.K.s was when they reopened.

It`s not having it both ways. It`s exactly the same way.

Ok you seem to be saying we are closely following the UKs reopening plan based on observations. I think that’s nonsense, but we could split hairs indefinitely.

But more importantly you seem to believe 14 days after UKs plan was the main metric for reopening here.

If that was the plan all along and it was that simple, why was it not announced as a plan? A bit of a missed opportunity no? We wait 14 days, all data from UK good and away we go? Instead of week before last our Taoiseach implied he was happy to be heading indoors for a pint by the end of the year, and Summer would be outdoors, and the prospects for international travel were pretty grim in comparison to UKs May 17th....

giveitholly

brickster69 wrote: »

The party looks to be in full swing tonight. Good on em

https://metro.co.uk/2021/04/30/liverpool-revellers-dance-hug-and-kiss-as-clubbing-returns-14503077/?ito=push-notification&ci=147587&si=22786189&ai=14503077

Great to see

Marcusm

Dempo1 wrote: »

Not a popular opinion but here goes.

Something has changed dramatically with NPHET, Dr. Houlihan was aghast over those naughty people in Donegal claiming incidents rate is 3 times national average. Whilst I know he was on leave, perhaps he's not aware other counties, especially offaly were far worse only 2 weeks ago.

Media, government seem hell bent ignoring school outbreaks and closures of which there's been many, 4 Schools in Tullamore in the past 2 weeks.

New cases are not diminishing, today well over 500, oddly enough the same levels that Dr Glynn and professor Nolan said were far too high less than 2 weeks ago????

Let's be honest, the vacinne roll out less than inspiring, 27 changes to date, yes supply was an issue but I fear ineptitude closer to home has not helped. Apparently they are now thinking, vaccinate 40"s & 50"s at the same time, they haven't even started the 60"s yet. All well and good registering but when will they actually start? Seems to me this registration thing, just a ploy to appease growing frustrations, its meaningless if people are not getting vaccinated.

My humble sense is the new secretary General of the department of health is now calling the shots (no pun intended). Mr Watt, remember him and the outrageous salary. He's a money man, certainly no medical experience.

My sense is Government have actually eliminated a plan B if this goes pear shaped. All well and good Tony Houlihan saying its time to move on, the problem is, we've actually not moved at all. Hospital numbers painfully slow to reduce and ICU figures low, both great to see reductions but they are the only real positives.

So, Given NPHET"s and Tony Houlihans ultra cautious approach over the past 13 months, what's actually behind this sudden relaxing and positivity & dare I say ceasing all restrictions. I just hope it doesn't go Tits up, government won't get away with blaming a variant like they did after the last free for all at Christmas.

I think that the particular concern about Donegal is that it has been an outlier for the past 9 months. At one point it was attributed to cross border issues and seeding of the virus from NI. It has never moved down towards the average and the high cases are not attributable to any known cause (eg the meat plants outbreak, large construction sites etc). There seems to be a belief that there is too much social mixing in Donegal.

Dutchboy352

So is there ever a chance NIAC could change their advice on the Johnson and AZ vaccines not being available to younger people?

Dutchboy352

Dutchboy352 wrote: »

So is there ever a chance NIAC could change their advice on the Johnson and AZ vaccines not being available to younger people?

Yes

charlie14

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Ok you seem to be saying we are closely following the UKs reopening plan based on observations. I think that’s nonsense, but we could split hairs indefinitely.

But more importantly you seem to believe 14 days after UKs plan was the main metric for reopening here.

If that was the plan all along and it was that simple, why was it not announced as a plan? A bit of a missed opportunity no? We wait 14 days, all data from UK good and away we go? Instead of week before last our Taoiseach implied he was happy to be heading indoors for a pint by the end of the year, and Summer would be outdoors, and the prospects for international travel were pretty grim in comparison to UKs May 17th....

How can you announce anything based on data when you do not know the data ?
Anybody with half a brain would have recognised from a long way back that the idea this virus would just disappear, or that acquired herd immunity was a way out of this pandemic was nonsense.
Vaccination was always our only real hope. Science!

Do you somehow believe that we just stumbled across the idea that vaccines were our only real hope this week, we then stumbled on the U.K. data from Monday and picked a random date for reopening just because someone liked June 7th and this was announced yesterday?

charlie14

Marcusm wrote: »

I think that the particular concern about Donegal is that it has been an outlier for the past 9 months. At one point it was attributed to cross border issues and seeding of the virus from NI. It has never moved down towards the average and the high cases are not attributable to any known cause (eg the meat plants outbreak, large construction sites etc). There seems to be a belief that there is too much social mixing in Donegal.

Initially with the high infection levels in Derry and Strabane there was a good case for it being due to cross-border travel. Undeniable it`s now due to social mixing.

SEPT 23 1989

brickster69 wrote: »

The party looks to be in full swing tonight. Good on em

https://metro.co.uk/2021/04/30/liverpool-revellers-dance-hug-and-kiss-as-clubbing-returns-14503077/?ito=push-notification&ci=147587&si=22786189&ai=14503077

It’s a controlled experiment

Dancing guinea pigs

Graham

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

It’s a controlled experiment

Still great to see all the same.

Stormyteacup

charlie14 wrote: »

How can you announce anything based on data when you do not know the data ?
Anybody with half a brain would have recognised from a long way back that the idea this virus would just disappear, or that acquired herd immunity was a way out of this pandemic was nonsense.
Vaccination was always our only real hope. Science!

Do you somehow believe that we just stumbled across the idea that vaccines were our only real hope this week, we then stumbled on the U.K. data from Monday and picked a random date for reopening just because someone liked June 7th and this was announced yesterday?

Well, indeed - same goes for any plan. How can you announce a plan based on data when you don’t have it? You make a prognosis based on available data and advise that the plan is subject to the data following the paths predicted. So no reason we couldn’t have announced we were waiting two weeks for the UK data and all being good we would implement our provisional plan.

Vaccine data has been widely available for many weeks now, and how it’s obviously the way to herd immunity. Science, yes!

The bolded is how you’ve explained the speeding up of restrictions easing.

gozunda

BrianD3 wrote: »

It seems like a very short time ago when there was casual mention that intercounty travel might be "allowed" in June or July.

Restrictions lifted and according to Eamon Ryan, Holohan was in a "good mood" So by implication, was he in a "bad mood" when recommending more restrictions. It would be interesting to hear what exactly the 30 other members of NPHET actually contribute to the process or is it all about Nolan, Glynn, Henry and Holohan.

Remember near the start of the pandemic how Holohan felt ill at a press conference, went into hospital and then announced that it was very quiet in the hospital and people should go to hospital if they are sick. That was bizarre and I wondered what he was at.

I think what has happened with this restriction lifting is a combination of Northern Ireland, obvious lack of compliance with many restrictions here and maybe the government has only now become properly spooked about the economic situation. Time to establish a NEHET - National Economic Health Emergency Team?

I'd say you're possibly watching way too much telly and social media and oddly enough looking for signs and portents of doom and etc

I think the latter went out of fashion circa 800 AD ...

SEPT 23 1989

Graham wrote: »

Still great to see all the same.

It is