Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

You didn't even read it so.



It's why you send things up to "leadership" and the likes of Nolan is "leadership".

"Vaccination will
•
significantly and quickly reduce risk over a short period of time from May 2021 to August 2021
•
radically reduce mortality when those over 70 are fully protected
•
have a smaller effect on hospitalisation and critical care until the wider adult population is protected"

Nolan couldn't lead a line of ducklings to the pond. My mother is among the last of over 70s in country to be vaccinated on Friday. Hospitalisations/critical care units already significantly eased. We haven't even left April and NPHET are casually discussing August as a valid target for rolling back of restrictions. What the hell are our government dawdling for. Open the country now and stop taking our time for granted.

gozunda

MOR316 wrote: »

Philip Nolan...
He has no prior experience, qualifications or training in pandemic or epidemiology modelling...
How is he in the position he's in? Why is he in the position he's in?

Maybe we should look at that. Currently he is the Chairman of the Irish Epidemiological Modelling Advisory Group

The Irish Epidemiological Modelling Advisory Group (IEMAG) is a modelling group of NPHET formed on 11 March 2020 to provide statistical support and advice to NPHET and the Chief Medical Officer. Staff at University College Dublin and other mathematical researchers in Ireland are involved in developing mathematical models for stages of the COVID-19 pandemic.

Philip Nolan is currently the president of Maynooth University. His primary qualifications are in medicine and related fields and include a (Hons) degree in Physiology and primary medical degrees of MB BCh BAO.

He earned a PhD based on medical research. To date he has a extensive track record in professesional research which includes publications in leading international journals and the creation and implementation of new research programmes at University level. There's more...

But you say he has absolutely no prior experience, qualifications or training to be a chairman for a group of expert researchers in modelling?

Okay ...

Stheno

Grief, the Govt can't even comment in synch

Dublin TDs John Lahart and Jim O’Callahgan raised the issue of large numbers of young people gathering to socialise and drink when no toilet facilities are accessible.

Mr Martin said such gatherings are potential super spreader events and are “of concern”.

But earlier in the day, Tánaiste Leo Varadkar said people need to be "less puritanical" when it comes to criticising those who are enjoying themselves outdoors.

Mr Varadkar said socialising outdoors is “much, much safer” than indoors.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40276241.html

Boggles

Deleted User wrote: »

Nolan couldn't lead a line of ducklings to the pond.

I imagine he couldn't, primarily because he is not a fúcking duck.

Bizarre.

Sharpyshoot

Boggles wrote: »

I imagine he couldn't, primarily because he is not a fúcking duck.

Bizarre.

He does walk a bit wobbly with all the money he is coining in from his position.

Kivaro

More leaks this morning about the timing of inter-county travel in June. It is just bizarre. The EU Digital Green Pass is currently (now) being voted on. This means that vaccinated EU citizens will be allowed to travel within the EU without tests and quarantine upon arrival. So we could have a situation where we will be allowed to travel to any EU country and cross country borders, but not allowed travel within our own little island. Bizarre. We need the EU to knock some sense into this Irish government.

TomSweeney

Deleted User wrote: »

"Vaccination will
•
significantly and quickly reduce risk over a short period of time from May 2021 to August 2021
•
radically reduce mortality when those over 70 are fully protected
•
have a smaller effect on hospitalisation and critical care until the wider adult population is protected"

Nolan couldn't lead a line of ducklings to the pond. My mother is among the last of over 70s in country to be vaccinated on Friday. Hospitalisations/critical care units already significantly eased. We haven't even left April and NPHET are casually discussing August as a valid target for rolling back of restrictions. What the hell are our government dawdling for. Open the country now and stop taking our time for granted.

But but but INDIA !!! ???

JRant

PintOfView wrote: »

I see nothing wrong with the graphs, they clearly communicate the information!

The report is not assuming an R rate of 2 in July,
it's showing what the models suggest would happen with different R rates (1.3, 1.5, and 2.0)
It's also showing predictions with vaccination, and without vaccination.

You say that Israel has an R way below 1, with a vaccinations where we will be in July.
But isn't that what the graphs are showing?
They're showing a possible 4th wave, peaking end of June, with the virus then falling dramatically by October.

Can you see the top of the peaks on those graphs?

gozunda

TomSweeney wrote: »

Yeah welcome to the ignore list ...

.............

Tom. Your comments seem to be increasingly erratic this morning - but anyway thanks for your lovely erh drawing. Hope it didn't take you too long ...

So I guess you've no issue with those referring to the majority who follow restrictions as "weak minded" but don't like anyone pointing that out?

Each to their own I suppose ...

Boggles

Kivaro wrote: »

More leaks this morning about the timing of inter-county travel in June. It is just bizarre. The EU Digital Green Pass is currently (now) being voted on. This means that vaccinated EU citizens will be allowed to travel within the EU without tests and quarantine upon arrival. So we could have a situation where we will be allowed to travel to any EU country and cross country borders, but not allowed travel within our own little island. Bizarre. We need the EU to knock some sense into this Irish government.

We have all ready had the situation, several times, it was farcical.

Thankfully the MHQ has nipped most of that in the bud.

If the Green Pass is voted through, it won't be immediate, probably another couple of months.

Kivaro

NIMAN wrote: »

Doesn't the North open non-essential retail this Friday?

The borders will be busy!

And especially if the Irish government passes this ridiculous alcohol MUP bill in the next couple of weeks. Apparently they saw the young people in Salthill having a few cans and determined that cheap alcohol was the reason. And we all know that cheap alcohol spreads Covid.

The lower prices up North will get the booze trips from the South going again. This government keeps shooting themselves in the foot. (And no, this is not a Northern reference )

PintOfView

JRant wrote: »

Can you see the top of the peaks on those graphs?

The dark blue line is the one you need to look at.
The light blue band delimit the extreme possibilities at both ends (2.5 & 97.5 percentiles),
and yes, it does go off the scale of 2,000 cases per day on this graph (but we got up to 8,000 in Jan)

stephenjmcd

Kivaro wrote: »

And especially if the Irish government passes this ridiculous alcohol MUP bill in the next couple of weeks. Apparently they saw the young people in Salthill having a few cans and determined that cheap alcohol was the reason. And we all know that cheap alcohol spreads Covid.

The lower prices up North will get the booze trips from the South going again. This government keeps shooting themselves in the foot. (And no, this is not a Northern reference )

Off topic for thread but the bill that contains MUP was legislated for in 2018, they just didn't bring most of it in at the time. The most recent change as part of the bill was the separate of the off license from the shop, in most shops you'll see these little swinging barriers into the off license section now. Also can't use clubcard points etc, all this was brought in start of this year but it's been legislated for since 2018.

So yeah it's been there long before covid and if anything covid delayed it, the initial plan was 2020. Unless your drinking linden village or tesco own brand vodka it's not going to make much difference if any.

pjohnson

So those being responsible are "weak minded" :pac:

"Critcal thinking" is for the "strong minded" I guess.

pjohnson

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Off topic for thread but the bill that contains MUP was legislated for in 2018, they just didn't bring most of it in at the time. The most recent change as part of the bill was the separate of the off license from the shop, in most shops you'll see these little swinging barriers into the off license section now. Also can't just clubcard points etc, all this was brought in start of this year but it's been legislated for since 2018.

So yeah it's been there long before covid and if anything covid delayed it, the initial plan was 2020. Unless your drinking linden village or tesco own brand vodka it's not going to make much difference if any

80% of people know this. It just doesnt suit the narrative here to use facts so easier to blame Covid/Tony :pac:

Doctor Jimbob

pjohnson wrote: »

So those being responsible are "weak minded" :pac:

"Critcal thinking" is for the "strong minded" I guess.

No, just the ones who mindlessly file things into "safe" or "unsafe" categories based solely on what the man on the telly says.

Marty Bird

Kivaro wrote: »

More leaks this morning about the timing of inter-county travel in June. It is just bizarre. The EU Digital Green Pass is currently (now) being voted on. This means that vaccinated EU citizens will be allowed to travel within the EU without tests and quarantine upon arrival. So we could have a situation where we will be allowed to travel to any EU country and cross country borders, but not allowed travel within our own little island. Bizarre. We need the EU to knock some sense into this Irish government.

Not just vaccinated people also evidence of prior infection and recovery or to take a test.

Turgidy on Radio 1 praising government to the heavens: "Micheal Martin & his cabinet are so smart and innovative in how they're addressing outdoor dining this summer". I hear the North Korean ministry of propaganda has a vacancy. We'll all be marching in lockstep with grins on our faces.

OwenM

pjohnson wrote: »

80% of people know this. It just doesnt suit the narrative here to use facts so easier to blame Covid/Tony :pac:

MUP was always coming along, the impetus now is, i'm guessing, as a sop to the publicans, they always supported it because it was only going to raise drink prices in supermarkets and off licences. But they (publicans) may come to regret it, the minimum price will always be a target for the Irish temperance movement.

lawred2

Deleted User wrote: »

Turgidy on Radio 1 praising government to the heavens: "Micheal Martin & his cabinet are so smart and innovative in how they're addressing outdoor dining this summer". I hear the North Korea ministry of propaganda has a vacancy. We'll all be marching in lockstep with grins on our faces.

huh

I haven't seen anything that resembles a plan for outdoor dining this summer?

gozunda

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Off topic for thread but the bill that contains MUP was legislated for in 2018, they just didn't bring most of it in at the time. The most recent change as part of the bill was the separate of the off license from the shop, in most shops you'll see these little swinging barriers into the off license section now. Also can't use clubcard points etc, all this was brought in start of this year but it's been legislated for since 2018.

So yeah it's been there long before covid and if anything covid delayed it, the initial plan was 2020. Unless your drinking linden village or tesco own brand vodka it's not going to make much difference if any.

True. We can add to that the introduction of minimum alcohol pricing in Northern Ireland is also on the cards. With NI health Minister Robin Swann being on record saying would happen "as soon as possible". Though I don't see any firm dates as of yet.

Doctor Jimbob

gozunda wrote: »

True. We can add to that the introduction of minimum alcohol pricing in Northern Ireland is also on the cards. With NI health Minister Robin Swann being on record saying would happen "as soon as possible". Though I don't see any firm dates as of yet.

According the the news on radio 1 this morning it won't be implemented in NI until at least next year. I have no idea how accurate that is though.

Boggles

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Off topic for thread but the bill that contains MUP was legislated for in 2018, they just didn't bring most of it in at the time. The most recent change as part of the bill was the separate of the off license from the shop, in most shops you'll see these little swinging barriers into the off license section now. Also can't use clubcard points etc, all this was brought in start of this year but it's been legislated for since 2018.

So yeah it's been there long before covid and if anything covid delayed it, the initial plan was 2020. Unless your drinking linden village or tesco own brand vodka it's not going to make much difference if any.

No, it was brought in because people had a few cans at the weekend in Salthill.

"Apparently".

Now take your reality and jog on, no place for it here.

Sobit1964

bear1 wrote: »

I know the place, but just saying.. your example isn't accurate.
They have no plans to reopen anything yet, they've already said gastronomy is to stayed closed for now.
Source: I live here :P

You may wish to check the local news as of this morning - outside bars and restaurants open on the 15th May. 4th May for shopping malls, 8th May for hotels. Indoor hospitality/gyms and most everything else open on the 29th May.

Outdoor mask mandate likely to be scrapped on May 15th

lawred2

Sobit1964 wrote: »

You may wish to check the local news as of this morning - outside bars and restaurants open on the 15th May. 4th May for shopping malls, 8th May for hotels.

:eek:

when was that announced?

edit: nevermind Poland

Boggles

OwenM wrote: »

MUP was always coming along, the impetus now is, i'm guessing, as a sop to the publicans, they always supported it because it was only going to raise drink prices in supermarkets and off licences. But they (publicans) may come to regret it, the minimum price will always be a target for the Irish temperance movement.

Hmmmmm.

Alcohol consumption is declining, this is being driven as usual organically by younger cohorts.

Many reasons for that, but one I imagine is skulling pints for hours on end in a pub has lost it's appeal.

Not by be, but I'm not part of that generation.

ArthurDayne

Stheno wrote: »

Grief, the Govt can't even comment in synch



https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40276241.html

Probably indicative of the fact that Leo is a bit more adept at resonating with young people than Micheal. Though prattling on about people being ‘puritanical’ seems rich after a year in which puritanical thinking was promoted by government, there may be an element where Leo is slightly more cognisant of the fact that we are close to witnessing the emergence of an extremely angry generation of young Irish people. Their concerns have been relegated and dismissed as being little more than the selfish whinges of pampered youths whose selfish desires would gladly see old people die as a price for their trivial pastimes.

It will be interesting to see which party harnesses that anger over the next couple of years and what policies they will tout to entice the young — or whether the traditional crutch of emigration will save them the bother.

lawred2

ArthurDayne wrote: »

Probably indicative of the fact that Leo is a bit more adept at resonating with young people than Micheal. Though prattling on about people being ‘puritanical’ seems rich after a year in which puritanical thinking was promoted by government, there may be an element where Leo is slightly more cognisant of the fact that we are close to witnessing the emergence of an extremely angry generation of young Irish people. Their concerns have been relegated and dismissed as being little more than the selfish whinges of pampered youths whose selfish desires would gladly see old people die as a price for their trivial pastimes.

It will be interesting to see which party harnesses that anger over the next couple of years and what policies they will tout to entice the young — or whether the traditional crutch of emigration will save them the bother.

I wish he'd be more interested in holding MM to account in government rather than resonating with popular sentiment

Penfailed

Penfailed wrote: »

It's what you want to happen though. You said so yourself.

My position is "extreme" enough as it is compared to most here; you have absolutely no reason to misrepresent it unless you're being intentionally obtuse or disingenuous.

What I said was that I want all restrictions and legally enforced mandates lifted. I also said that I would personally still wear masks, wash hands, stay away from elderly relatives until they've their second jab, etc. and that people and businesses should make their own decisions about what risks they're willing to take.

It's actually not that "extreme" a position at all, really. You and others just keep conflating it with "let 'er rip" because you either cannot imagine making your own risk assessments and decisions without the assistance and enforcement of the government, or (and I suspect this applies to a lot of people in this thread) you (general) believe that you are responsible and reasonable enough to do without the restrictions but all those other eejits over there would immediately start licking doorknobs.

I just don't believe that the well-documented propensity of people to overestimate themselves is a good enough reason to keep everyone else restricted by mandate. And for people who really truly can't believe that their fellow citizens can handle life without "the rules", there's self-imposed restriction and home delivery.

ArthurDayne

lawred2 wrote: »

I wish he'd be more interested in holding MM to account in government rather than resonating with popular sentiment

Couldn’t agree more, in fact I would like to see the Irish people and the media doing the same — but sadly, in contrast to pretty much every other issue of political or societal interest, the Covid strategy insofar as it relates to lockdowns is seemingly unquestionable.