Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

dalyboy

Captain_Crash wrote: »

While I think it’s too little too late, (as in, the damage has been done) its good that we are finally seeing some sense amongst government. I’m going to try and focus on looking forward as the sh*tshow we have all watched over the last few months can’t be changed.

But I’ve one question really! What on Earth happened yesterday too see such a huge change in direction?? 24 hours earlier there was rumours of nothing much changing till July! Who said what for it all to be brought forward in the space of literal hours?!?

I was thinking the sale thing RE the accelerator being applied. On Tuesday night there was a late night meeting with MM , sleepy Ryan and pascal Donahue. The result of this meeting may have been the contributing factor in acceleration of the lifting of restrictions.

With this theory obviously there’s good news (relaxation) and bad news (economic).

Theboinkmaster

Leftwaffe wrote: »

So you’re telling me everything that is opening in this phased relaxation of restrictions will not close again due to public health guidance on COVID-19?

I just want to be sure on this.

Yes

facehugger99

Following the meeting at Government Buildings, Minister for Transport Eamon Ryan said that the Cabinet will not depart from NPHET's advice on easing restrictions.

If anything summed up the spinelessness of our democratically elected 'leaders'.

Just a reminder that these lads are pulling down well north of 6-figures to come out with this subservient bullsh;t.

What a pathetic and contemptable bunch of arseholes we have in Leinster House.

copeyhagen

prunudo wrote: »

Its not a certainty but it would be naive to think there isn't a threat of some sort of lockdown/restrictions next winter.
It also worries me that they can change their tune and tone in such a short space of time. Much of what is rummoured is overdue but why the sudden change in approach.

they have ran out of money and need to cut 12bn.. was posted here a few days ago

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=newssearch&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjMl8zK86LwAhVEsXEKHQYNDrQQxfQBCDMwAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishexaminer.com%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2Farid-40274552.html&usg=AOvVaw1JcwjRHe15cgAb6hGyoeXy

theyre broke..

prunudo

copeyhagen wrote: »

they have ran out of money and need to cut 12bn.. was posted here a few days ago

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=newssearch&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjMl8zK86LwAhVEsXEKHQYNDrQQxfQBCDMwAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishexaminer.com%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2Farid-40274552.html&usg=AOvVaw1JcwjRHe15cgAb6hGyoeXy

theyre broke..

Or in other words they are broke but we will have to pay for it. Was it ever going to be any other way.

_Kaiser_

copeyhagen wrote: »

id say a few posters here were up all night losing sleep at the mere prospect of leaving lockdown.....

Listening to NT this morning they have already had a professor of genetics on worrying (they even quoted her in the 8am headlines) and texters lamenting that the government haven't waited a few more weeks.

The psychological damage caused by the last year is immense and will take a lot longer to fix for some people.

The Nutty M

Sammy2012 wrote: »

What's peoples take on foreign travel this summer? Do you think quarantine and tests will be required in August?

Looking from the outside in,IMO they are trying to contain people within the country. Make them all happy and excited about having a sandwich or pint outside in the cold while all the time gradually adding European MHQ countries to a list.
Italy
Austria
Belgium
Andorra
France
Luxembourg
Monaco
Serbia

To be announced possibly
Netherlands
Romania
Czech Republic
Switzerland
Lichtenstein

When you put an X through all them countries on a map of Europe,the list grows small of possible countries to go on holiday/non essential travel to. When the list is small,more focused policing is made easier. The boiling frog analogy is very apt.

Don't Chute!

I get the distinct feeling we are all seemingly supposed to collapse down upon our knees and prostrate ourselves in blessed thanks that our Lord and Masters have seen fit to grant us such freedoms. Sorry lads won’t be happening.

Jinglejangle69

The fact they are only doing this as we're broke and the penny has dropped says it all.

Boggles

Don't Chute! wrote: »

I get the distinct feeling we are all seemingly supposed to collapse down upon our knees and prostrate ourselves in blessed thanks that our Lord and Masters have seen fit to grant us such freedoms. Sorry lads won’t be happening.

You staying at level 6?

Good for you.

Haircuts for everyone else.

Boggles

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

The fact they are only doing this as we're broke and the penny has dropped says it all.

Or we have actually secured vaccines and a vaccination plan.

Much like we were told what would happen.

Q2.

Boggles

Don't Chute! wrote: »

I meant I won’t be prostrating myself but of course you knew that didn’t you?

TBH I don't think anyone cares what you do TBF.

You seem to have over personalized the pandemic to the extent where you have created goodies and baddies.

It's not a healthy mindset.

ArthurDayne

charlie14 wrote: »

If anyone is attempting to change the goalposts here I`m afraid it is very much you Arthur. Along with a fair old measure of avoidance as well.


One of the aims of lockdown was to prevent health services from being over-run. Something we saw, and are still seeing, in countries before lockdowns were introduced. Far as I recall one of your points has been that ours was not over-run as shown by our I.C.U. numbers.
Low infection numbers will ensure lower hospitalisations and thus lower numbers requiring I.C.U. To believe lockdown played no part is denying reality Arthur.


Apparently your idea as to what level of restrictions we should have had all along are those you listed in your last post.
Those were tried in Sweden. Still are. Looking at their data, that`s a bullet we would not have missed following your alternative to lockdown.

For what it's worth Charlie, I admire the quality of your posts and your tenacity in argument -- but I am sorry that I do have to repeat myself -- because even in the course of your last few posts to me you have twisted what I have said and subtly tried to change the goalposts. Another problem is that, like Boggles, you seem to just be bestowing opinions on me out of the blue to convince yourself that I am arguing something I'm not. At what point exactly did I say that lockdowns have played no part in minimising infection? This is undeniable -- lockdowns can work but the issue is (a) they cannot be sustained indefinitely without huge damage and eventual lapse (b) when they do lapse, in a situation where Covid has become endemic, then you run the risk that when a lockdown-weary population is given.any sniff of freedom you will have an entire nation simultaneously doing the things they miss doing -- and with that comes spread like wildfire.

But we are not talking about "minimising infection" because minimising infection outright is not what the State's strategy ever has been -- because minimising infection outright is effectively a Zero Covid strategy. Strangely though, in the very same post, you then go on to shift the goalposts again -- though at least on this occasion to the right place -- to saying that it was to prevent healthcare being overrun.

So, now that we are back to the correct argument, and you have accused me of vague mumblings, i am once again offering you the chance to show me how clear and definitive your argument is. So can you please explain to me the data justifying how each of the individual example measures (hairdressers being closed along with hotels / restaurants / bars, distance limits being in place) are contributing to preventing healthcare from overrun and by what percentage their alleviation would increase the risk of the healthcare system being overrun?

dalyboy

The Nutty M wrote: »

Looking from the outside in,IMO they are trying to contain people within the country. Make them all happy and excited about having a sandwich or pint outside in the cold while all the time gradually adding European MHQ countries to a list.
Italy
Austria
Belgium
Andorra
France
Luxembourg
Monaco
Serbia

To be announced possibly
Netherlands
Romania
Czech Republic
Switzerland
Lichtenstein

When you put an X through all them countries on a map of Europe,the list grows small of possible countries to go on holiday/non essential travel to. When the list is small,more focused policing is made easier. The boiling frog analogy is very apt.

Good luck to them policing the exodus to Belfast airport come June 7th when the country travel is allowed.

_Kaiser_

Don't Chute! wrote: »

This coming from YOU? Absolutely laughable. I’d say you’re in some bad mood today. De man on de tellys grip on running your life for you is slipping.....

I think a lot of the resistance generally is borne of the point that relaxed restrictions and the imminent financial issues will mean the ending of PUP and other supports, and those who have been sitting at home comfortably pontificating will now have to go back to the office which won't suit them at all.

Graham

ArthurDayne wrote: »

But we are not talking about "minimising infection" because minimising infection outright is not what the State's strategy ever has been -- because minimising infection outright is effectively a Zero Covid strategy.

Tosh

The strategy for most countries globally has included minimising infection, it's a pretty sensible strategy during a pandemic.

Boggles

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I think a lot of the resistance generally is borne of the point that relaxed restrictions and the imminent financial issues will mean the ending of PUP and other supports, and those who have been sitting at home comfortably pontificating will now have to go back to the office which won't suit them at all.

I literally don't know anyone that would not jump at the chance of going back to the office tomorrow.

The craic fell out of that one around May last year.

FintanMcluskey

Boggles wrote: »

I literally don't know anyone that would not jump at the chance of going back to the office tomorrow.

The craic fell out of that one around May last year.

I literally don’t know anyone who wouldn’t want to go back

Stuck working and living at home is a borderline hermit lifestyle

Some people enjoy the social aspect of work

Jinglejangle69

Boggles wrote: »

Or we have actually secured vaccines and a vaccination plan.

Much like we were told what would happen.

Q2.

The whole rhetoric changed drastically within a few days.

MM only saying a few days ago it's an outdoor summer.

Anyway thank god they changed their minds, whether vaccine or finances.

I thought NPHET's and the governments dastardly plan was to keep us in lockdown forever?

_Kaiser_

Boggles wrote: »

I literally don't know anyone that would not jump at the chance of going back to the office tomorrow.

The craic fell out of that one around May last year.

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I literally don’t know anyone who wouldn’t want to go back

Stuck working and living at home is a borderline hermit lifestyle

Some people enjoy the social aspect of work

I think that's true if you're single and young - for me it definitely was. Good craic in work, sessions every few days etc

When you get older and settled though work becomes more about a means to an end for most people and the social aspect falls away as people have their own families and interests/responsibilities after work.

It's this latter group who have saved a fortune on commuting and time lost in traffic, not spending money on takeaway coffees and overpriced sandwiches for lunch, no childcare costs, and who work in roles that they can do from anywhere if they have a phone and a laptop who'll be reluctant to return to the office I think.

_Kaiser_

Deleted User wrote: »

I thought NPHET's and the governments dastardly plan was to keep us in lockdown forever?

As I and many others predicted, they've been forced into it by worsening finances and a significant falloff in public support generally, as well as imminent reopening in NI and the EU vaccine passport

Simple as that.

facehugger99

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I think a lot of the resistance generally is borne of the point that relaxed restrictions and the imminent financial issues will mean the ending of PUP and other supports, and those who have been sitting at home comfortably pontificating will now have to go back to the office which won't suit them at all.

There's no doubt lockdown has suited a lot of people both financially and lifestyle-wise.

Being able to virtue-signal on social media about saving grannies probably adds to the appeal.

The fact that this seemingly comfortable lifestyle is being underpinned by tens of billions of euros of borrowings, doesn't seem to have entered their little heads.

ArthurDayne

Graham wrote: »

Tosh

The strategy for most countries globally has included minimising infection, it's a pretty sensible strategy during a pandemic.

OK, so why then -- if our strategy was about minimising infections --- did we not pursue a strategy closer to Zero Covid?

You, and I suspect Charlie as well, are failng to acknowledge that there is a difference between "minimising infection" and "minimising infection to a level which can be handled". The severity of the lockdown in Ireland was justified on the latter, not the former.

If the Irish strategy was ever about merely minimising infection, there would have been even stricter measures in place and absolutely no reopenings of even timid form. We would have remained more or less at Level 5 for a year -- because unless we had completely eliminated Covid then any reopening would have been a total contradiction of a policy of just "minimising infection" as cases inevitably would have risen. But no, the strategy was aimed at minimising infection to the extent that the healthcare system could cope, not minimising it outright.

Boggles

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I think that's true if you're single and young - for me it definitely was. Good craic in work, sessions every few days etc

When you get older and settled though work becomes more about a means to an end for most people and the social aspect falls away as people have their own families and interests/responsibilities after work.

It's this latter group who have saved a fortune on commuting and time lost in traffic, not spending money on takeaway coffees and overpriced sandwiches for lunch, no childcare costs, and who work in roles that they can do from anywhere if they have a phone and a laptop who'll be reluctant to return to the office I think.

Can't say that rings true with my personal experience.

People just want their lives and especially their homes back.

As for child care costs, as soon as child care reopened the children were returned at the speed of sound.

This was actually one of the most challenging aspects of trying to work and take of children.

It was unfair and unhealthy for both.

The narrative that it was one big money saving jolly is usually peddled by people who didn't have to do it.

pjohnson

Boggles wrote: »

Or we have actually secured vaccines and a vaccination plan.

Much like we were told what would happen.

Q2.

I was wondering how long it would take this thread to find a negative way to spin everything.

Yesterday was upsetting for this place. Tony was guaranteed to keep everything shut until 2022 remember.

paddyisreal

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I thought NPHET's and the governments dastardly plan was to keep us in lockdown forever?

Nphet and the governments conservative reopening plan went out the window when the north opened up. It's not rocket science

_Kaiser_

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

As I and many others predicted, they've been forced into it by worsening finances and a significant falloff in public support generally, as well as imminent reopening in NI and the EU vaccine passport

Simple as that.

As I and many others predicted, they have done it as they observed the improving epidemiological situation and the rapidly increasing vaccine rollout.

They have in fact moved faster that I thought they would, even if I think they could still go a little faster

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=116369264&postcount=843

Graham

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

As I and many others predicted, they've been forced into it by worsening finances and a significant falloff in public support generally, as well as imminent reopening in NI and the EU vaccine passport

Simple as that.

Case numbers are manageable and we've vaccinating people.

Simple as that

Graham

ArthurDayne wrote: »

OK, so why then -- if our strategy was about minimising infections --- did we not pursue a strategy closer to Zero Covid?

No

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