Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

gozunda

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

And the same guys here that defended the reopening in late Summer and now agree with the faster road map (despite nothing changing regarding the danger from Covid this week) are really embarrassing themselvesIt’s was never about Covid, it was about doing what the man on tele told us. A throwback to Catholic Church Ireland

Yikes! I never realised that every country using restrictions to keep the rate of infection low only do so because of "a man on the tele" and by reason of a throwback to their Catholic ways :eek:

https://m.dw.com/en/coronavirus-germanys-emergency-brake-rules-take-effect/a-57321750

Graham

It is a particularly bizarre theory but apparently one that's worthy of much thanks.

Perhaps Fintan might explain it one day.

charlie14

charlie14 wrote: »

I your head it may have been, but then flattening the curve or controlling the spread to protect health services and save lives was never factored into your proposal to begin with. You have already said you favoured no restrictions what-so-ever.

Just pointing out your error, pal.

You're welcome.

charlie14 wrote: »

We were lucky science moved fast. Had it taken 4 years to develop vaccines we would be putting them into a lot less arms in 4 years time had we followed your proposal.

Only if you think Irish people are complete morons. That's not my jam.

charlie14

Deleted User wrote: »

Just pointing out your error, pal.

You're welcome.

Just pointing out where we would be if we followed your proposals and beliefs.

Graham

growleaves wrote: »

We should have a football match. As long as I don't have to be a goalkeeper.

+1

the speed those darn posts would be moving at

growleaves

growleaves wrote: »

We should have a football match. As long as I don't have to be a goalkeeper.

I can just imagine the insults being flung at the ref.

"Why should I go back 10 yards"
"I should be able to handle the ball where I choose"
"Shin pads are completely ineffective, show me the scientific evidence"

Level 42

when are we predicting the following are back ?

amateur football teams back playing
concerts no restrictions
going to the pub no social distancing

charlie14

timmyntc wrote: »

The reality is nobody expected the govt to approve opening this soon - its a welcome development but to suggest that that anyone "saw it coming" is absurd.

Go back 2 or 3 days in this very thread and you will see posters making statements such as we cannot open up until:



And a week almost of people scaremongering over the situation in India, and warning us that opening too soon would lead to that happening here.

Attempt to misrepresent much ?

I and other here outside, of the "Tony is a dictator and we will be in permanent lockdown if we do not open up everything right away" brigade, have been consistently saying that regardless of that hyperbole we should follow the scientific data on opening. The data, from in particular, the U.K. on vaccination levels and staged re-opening.

Where in the present re-opening proposals going to cabinet do you not see that being what I and others said

If you cannot get the danger of opening up all and sundry in India based on just low number with low levels of vaccination, then there really is not much I can do for you

timmyntc

charlie14 wrote: »

Attempt to misrepresent much ?

I and other here outside, of the "Tony is a dictator and we will be in permanent lockdown if we do not open up everything right away" brigade, have been consistently saying that regardless of that hyperbole we should follow the scientific data on opening. The data, from in particular, the U.K. on vaccination levels and staged re-opening.

Where in the present re-opening proposals going to cabinet do you not see that being what I and others said

If you cannot get the danger of opening up all and sundry in India based on just low number with low levels of vaccination, then there really is not much I can do for you

Your deference to science is really just a deference to the government. They do not have access to some top secret "science" that we do not. The data is plain to see for all and sundry. We have been seeing it for weeks in the case, hospital & death trends. We have been shouting from the rooftops that based on the science and vaccines we should already be well underway reopening hospitality and more - to this we were told "but but India! Brazil! The variants!"

At what point did opening hospitality in May go from unscientific to science backed? Was it the same time the govt announced it?

Graham

timmyntc wrote: »

Your deference to science is really just a deference to the government.

Now that is classic.

You know people can read this stuff?

Boggles

timmyntc wrote: »

to this we were told "but but India! Brazil! The variants!"

Nope, much like NPHET did it was Europe that was pointed to.

This was written off on here because central Europe have a tropical climate and a 10 month flu season or whatever nonsense was peddled to try and explain away the obvious.

timmyntc

Graham wrote: »

Now that is classic.

You know people can read this stuff?

Why not quote my whole post to get the context?

When charlie14 says he follows the science led approach, he really means the govt led approach.

The science & data is absolute and always been there, it was there before cabinets meeting yesterday - but charlie14s support of relaxation only came after the govt announced same.

Graham

timmyntc wrote: »

Why not quote my whole post to get the context?

When charlie14 says he follows the science led approach, he really means the govt led approach.

The science & data is absolute and always been there, it was there before cabinets meeting yesterday - but charlie14s support of relaxation only came after the govt announced same.

That just makes no sense unless you've convinced yourself there's nothing scientific about the governments approach.

growleaves

We need a relaxation of recriminations.

timmyntc

Graham wrote: »

That just makes no sense unless you've convinced yourself there's nothing scientific about the governments approach.

Where did you get that?

The govts approach is based on science - but the same approach as govt have taken was dismissed by charlie14 earlier in the week at the time as "not backed by science" when suggested by posters here. "The Science" didnt just come into existence in the last 24hrs - the data govt made their decision based on has been available for weeks.

Graham

timmyntc wrote: »

Where did you get that?

The govts approach is based on science - but the same approach as govt have taken was dismissed by charlie14 earlier in the week at the time as "not backed by science" when suggested by posters here. "The Science" didnt just come into existence in the last 24hrs - the data govt made their decision based on has been available for weeks.

I don't think the position has changed recently. The approach remains.

Make a change, assess the impact, make a change, assess the impact...

gozunda

timmyntc wrote: »

Why not quote my whole post to get the context?..

Why not indeed timmyntc???

You quote me above in support of some rubbish you're pushing about posters here claiming it wasn't time yet for restrictions to be rolled back.

You could at least have the decency to quote me in full or acknowledge that "the opening up" which I referenced" was a scenario with no restrictions whatsoever But I suppose that wouldn't suit the agenda

Here's the full comment. I've even highlighted the quote in context.

gozunda wrote: »

Well that's the thing we didn't have any vaccines when this **** started and now we do.

But atm the "most vulnerable" have not all been vaccinated. Those aged 16-69 and at high risk from infection are still being vaccinated. As are the remaining 70+ and others. And thats just the first dose of vaccine we're talking about.

What would you have us do?

Just throw everything out the window even though we are managing to keep the infection rate low and especially now have a way out of this mess?

And we know that 50% of the adult population vaccinated is the current min level to provide for opening up - as seen in the UK, Israel

Despite that we've already started rolling back restrictions here because of our low infection rate - though I don't ever remember being told that when the vulnerable were vaccinated we could let it rip?

Yeah but seriously let's ask what the fuq is going on eh?

timmyntc

gozunda wrote: »

Why not indeed timmyntc???

You quote me above in support of some rubbish you're pushing about posters here claiming it wasn't time yet for restrictions to be rolled back.

You could at least have the decency to quote me in full or acknowledge that "the opening up" which I referenced" was a scenario with no restrictions whatsoever But I suppose that wouldn't suit the agenda

Here's the full comment. I've even highlighted the quote in context.

Yes. And?

Its a reference to schools etc - you still stated we shouldnt be opening up hospitality etc because we need the 50% vaccinated milestone.

gozunda

timmyntc wrote: »

Yes. And?

Its a reference to schools etc - you still stated we shouldnt be opening up hospitality etc because we need the 50% vaccinated milestone.

Ah so back to the game of things which were NEVER said

Nope. I made NO mention of "hospitality" whatsoever. I can find no reference to 'schools'

Here the quote again - in context of the poster I was replying to wanting a full reopening with no restrictions whatsoever. I even acknowledged we weren't at 50% but we were rolling back restrictions already.

And we know that 50% of the adult population vaccinated is the current min level to provide for opening up - as seen in the UK, Israel

Despite that we've already started rolling back restrictions here because of our low infection rate - though I don't ever remember being told that when the vulnerable were vaccinated we could let it rip?

Do you want to let it rip timmyntc? Is that the idea you're pushing?

PTH2009

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0429/1212714-cabinet-restrictions/

Few changes

stephenjmcd

PTH2009 wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0429/1212714-cabinet-restrictions/

Few changes

No changes there from what went to cabinet this afternoon. All as leaked last night

Level 42

Level 42 wrote: »

when are we predicting the following are back ?

amateur football teams back playing
concerts no restrictions
going to the pub no social distancing

1. June.
2. Depends - if you mean full capacity events at large capacity venues such as three arena - probably 2022, small venues with max a few hundred capacity - September
3. September

PTH2009

stephenjmcd wrote: »

No changes there from what went to cabinet this afternoon. All as leaked last night

I thought outdoor hospitality was the 24th May

Suppose those pesky bank holiday weekends killed that chance

hynesie08

PTH2009 wrote: »

I thought outdoor hospitality was the 24th May

Suppose those pesky bank holiday weekends killed that chance

No, got changed yesterday, you were complaining about it......

hynesie08

stephenjmcd wrote: »

No changes there from what went to cabinet this afternoon. All as leaked last night

Was indoor hospitality not the 7th earlier?

FlubberJones

Seem the gyms are being lumped in with drinking outside now... baffling idea.

If shops and hairdressers are open they should have gyms at the same time, the shopaholics will be sweating and panting in the TK MAX and whatever... no different to us in the gyms.

rob316

I'm sure NPHET wanted this farce to go on longer. Its still not quick enough though, there is no science behind keeping outdoor hospitality closed for another month. Why couldn't the 10th be brought forward to the 4th?

is_that_so

FlubberJones wrote: »

Seem the gyms are being lumped in with drinking outside now... baffling idea.

If shops and hairdressers are open they should have gyms at the same time, the shopaholics will be sweating and panting in the TK MAX and whatever... no different to us in the gyms.

It's just the large number of different sectors and not wanting to open too many at the same time. Remember last year it took us about 2 months to open everything. June 7 is only a further few weeks.

charlie14

timmyntc wrote: »

Your deference to science is really just a deference to the government. They do not have access to some top secret "science" that we do not. The data is plain to see for all and sundry. We have been seeing it for weeks in the case, hospital & death trends. We have been shouting from the rooftops that based on the science and vaccines we should already be well underway reopening hospitality and more - to this we were told "but but India! Brazil! The variants!"

At what point did opening hospitality in May go from unscientific to science backed? Was it the same time the govt announced it?

I did say here some time ago, half jokingly, that it felt as if certain posters were actually desperate to keep us locked down permanently as they would have nothing to crib and cry about otherwise.
From skimming through posts since these proposed measures were first mooted last night it looks is if I was only half right.
The whiff of desperation from some here since is palpable.

It looks as if you have spent so long here moaning about lockdown the rest of the world has passed you by.
The science is not secret. It`s there for anyone who wishes to see it in the data from the U.K. and Israel on opening up based on vaccination levels.

The science that is not there, or if it is it is a secret known only to you and a select few others rooftop shouters based on data of low numbers and low vaccination levels for opening up everything right away.

Don`t be selfish. Do tell please.

PTH2009

hynesie08 wrote: »

You, yesterday when the date was changed? Am I wrong?

But didn't it get changed back to the 24th May a few hours later ?