Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

pjohnson

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I understand your eagerness to get back to travelling but be careful about what conditions you accept to do so.

If people dont want to accept travel conditions they can just stay at home.

Boggles

pjohnson wrote: »

If people dont want to accept travel conditions they can just stay at home.

What do you mean I can't bring my sword on the board the airplane?

You want to scan my shoes?

But Me Fraydumbs!

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

Even on this thread I think the overwhelming consensus would be that was a prudent thing to do.

Absolutely agree, and had no notion of being able to undertake such travel. Just that, very unusually for me, I'm even losing the interest in more exotic travel.

paw patrol

Boggles wrote: »

You see didn't long. Someone was going to come along and tell you that didn't happen.

.from todays indo
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/everything-you-need-to-know-about-irelands-summer-on-the-road-out-of-lockdown-40371916.html

Anything else?
From May 4, construction sites will fully reopen.

Now can you explain why they would write if construction was open ?
unless it wasn't.

and worse still the government themselves are lying

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/2dc71-level-5/#construction

Construction is closed with the following exceptions:

are you suggesting that everything is an exception?

and finally 2 of my 3 friends in construction who weren't working for a major builder - the 2 are self employed - were lying about being on the PUP for the first 3 months of 2021.

I'm glad I have you to rely on with so many liars out there.:)

Being honest , like many sectors in covid the big companies circumvented the rules with exceptions and magic certs - while smaller business had to suffer the consequences of the restrictions.
That doesn't mean the sector (any sector) was open

Boggles

paw patrol wrote: »

Now can you explain why they would write if construction was open ?
unless it wasn't.

You'll have to take that up with the OP.

beggars_bush wrote: »

Comstruction never really stopped down the country
Two houses built up the road since January

It's like there is a whole country out there that can't be 100% monitored by randomers on the internet.

Here is picture of me in my new house holding my new passport.

Nope couldn't have happened, website said so.

paw patrol

Boggles wrote: »

You'll have to take that up with the OP.



It's like there is a whole country out there that can't be 100% monitored by randomers on the internet.

Here is picture of me in my new house holding my new passport.

Nope couldn't have happened, website said so.

I don't think you are lying about your passport and house.
but we should agree n=1 (or n= boggles) doesn't paint the full societal picture.

There clearly was shut down of construction and I did state that i know from people in the industry that big companies got to circumvent the rules.
For example, my mate was in work cos a few houses on the site were social housing but the entire team was in working on all houses on the basis
while the other 2 who are self employed were doing similar work but had no social house to latch onto and suffered the PUP for 3 months in 2021

PowerToWait

The reaction to the latest developments proves my suspicion that anti restrictions types are in the main a sour bunch of whining drama queens. Not necessarily those posting on this thread, of course.

No matter what happens, they predict worse times ahead. Holohan is the devil and will do this and that despite CLEAR evidence to the contrary.

All the utter misery they predicted has failed to come to pass. I really think they enjoyed the lockdown for the opportunity to whine and moan every moment of every day. Now it’s coming to an end they are still whinging and bitching.

the kelt

JRant wrote: »

True enough but 50% of a low number is still a low number. It's about the acceptable level of risk now. We are running at 400/500 cases a day and hospital numbers are still dropping. We may be able to have far larger numbers of cases and have no material impact on hospital services. There will always be edge cases but we are very close to a point where cases are almost a meaningless metric.

I agree with the age profile of current cases and being driven by vaccinations. By the end of May we should have over 60's done and a large chunk of over 50's. The landscape will look increasingly positive even by then and we will probably see an accelerated reopening.

This is the thing. We are still running at 400/500 cases a day and hospilisations are still falling. We need to be cautious of course but not utterly pessimistic.

Cases are irrelevant now, almost a meaningless metric now, we have to remember cases at the moment are being driven by the multitude of pop up test centres around the country where anyone who feels like it can have a test, what would they be without those centres?

I can see the pace of restriction easing being accelerated but still a bit concerned hearing MM talking about case numbers still as if they are the solid metric they once were.

timmyntc

M_Murphy57 wrote: »

Yeah that headline annoyed me too, but that's just another example of FF continuing to infantalise the electorate.

FF: *Pats electorate on the head* "now, because you've been very good boys and girls, mammy and daddy will let you outside in about 9 weeks time. But remember, if you are bold between now and then mammy and daddy can still ground you? Understand? Good boy"

The reality is we are smashed broke and cant afford these restrictions any longer. Leo said multiple times on multiple media outlets yesterday that the bill is coming. So they can patronise us and tell is we are bold all they want but they cant afford to keep us locked in any longer.

I just wish we had a government that respected us and treated us like adults. The next GE cant come quick enough.

The govts reopening plan was likely pushed forward due to financial reasons - so I'd be very surprised if they allowed another lockdown and few months of people on the PUP. The penny has finally dropped that a mountain of debt has been added, and it cant continue.

Doctor Jimbob

M_Murphy57 wrote: »

Yeah that headline annoyed me too, but that's just another example of FF continuing to infantalise the electorate.

FF: *Pats electorate on the head* "now, because you've been very good boys and girls, mammy and daddy will let you outside in about 9 weeks time. But remember, if you are bold between now and then mammy and daddy can still ground you? Understand? Good boy"

The reality is we are smashed broke and cant afford these restrictions any longer. Leo said multiple times on multiple media outlets yesterday that the bill is coming. So they can patronise us and tell is we are bold all they want but they cant afford to keep us locked in any longer.

I just wish we had a government that respected us and treated us like adults. The next GE cant come quick enough.

To be honest I think it’s more of a plea from government not to put them in a position where a slower reopening is, in their view, the only option. I spend a lot of time giving out about MM and SD, but listening to them speak yesterday, the relief was evident. I don’t agree with how harsh our restrictions have been a lot of the time, but to hear them yesterday it’s quite obvious they thought it was the only option and they’re glad to be on the way out of this.

Doctor Jimbob

timmyntc wrote: »

The govts reopening plan was likely pushed forward due to financial reasons - so I'd be very surprised if they allowed another lockdown and few months of people on the PUP. The penny has finally dropped that a mountain of debt has been added, and it cant continue.

They seem to be largely going along with NPHET’s advice though. Tony Holohan doesn’t come across as the kind of man who would just say what he’s told by government - remember his return last October?

average_runner

Boggles wrote: »

You see didn't long. Someone was going to come along and tell you that didn't happen.

Social housing estate was built during lockdown here.
Plenty of houses getting construction work also.
New estates in Adamstown, worked continue on them also.


Council was building cycling lanes in Lucan during the lockdown and footpaths.


House viewings for houses that were for sale, were happening during lockdown also. 2 Houses got sold in our estate during it!!

paw patrol

PowerToWait wrote: »

T

All the utter misery they predicted has failed to come to pass.

I'm not sour just realistic.

Unsure if Holohan is the devil but he and NPHET were granted too much control over the country and the loss of our civil liberties is something troubling. If you're fine with that loss of rights - for the 99.9% survival rate , good on you, but I'm not.
If our rights can be removed so easily we never had them in the first place. What's even worse is that I know I'm in a minority and it's bizarre how people can be so wound up in fear that they happily give up their rights.

But I want to address the quote above...what do you think the last 10 out of 12 months has been if not utter misery?
In fairness you are kinda correct cos nobody predicted the utter cowardly behaviour of the government and the near 5 months of 2021 lockdown we have endured. Not even mentioning 2020.
It was much worse than people predicted - don't know if even Alex Jones foresaw the Mehole effect.

But we are where we are and hopefully things will move on

paw patrol

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

They seem to be largely going along with NPHET’s advice though. Tony Holohan doesn’t come across as the kind of man who would just say what he’s told by government - remember his return last October?

Leo Varadkar remembers alright :pac:

His slap down of NPHET and Tony at the time resulted in the leaking expose that caused his current political and garda woes. make of that what you will...but he hasn't gone against them again.

timmyntc

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

They seem to be largely going along with NPHET’s advice though. Tony Holohan doesn’t come across as the kind of man who would just say what he’s told by government - remember his return last October?

It's hard to know when they havent published all the advice yeah - only 2 days ago they ignored NPHETs advice to add most of europe to the MHQ list.

The only thing I could find was this from RTE:

The most recent official advice to the Government from NPHET described the overall situation as fragile, and that any increase in close contacts would represent a significant risk.

Boggles

paw patrol wrote: »

2 who are self employed were doing similar work but had no social house to latch onto and suffered the PUP for 3 months in 2021

2 of your mates are self employed tradesmen and they sat at home for 3 months claiming the PUP?

All though they were entitled to work at least in part and claim it.

Good for them.

Trades in my family and personal circle were flat out.

ypres5

PowerToWait wrote: »

The reaction to the latest developments proves my suspicion that anti restrictions types are in the main a sour bunch of whining drama queens. Not necessarily those posting on this thread, of course.

No matter what happens, they predict worse times ahead. Holohan is the devil and will do this and that despite CLEAR evidence to the contrary.

All the utter misery they predicted has failed to come to pass. I really think they enjoyed the lockdown for the opportunity to whine and moan every moment of every day. Now it’s coming to an end they are still whinging and bitching.

Honestly I've seen more posts from pro lockdown people accusing people of whinging and bitching on the thread much more than I've seen actual whinging and bitching. Care to share some examples of whinging and bitching that's apparently so prevalent?

timmyntc

Boggles wrote: »

2 of your mates are self employed tradesmen and they sat at home for 3 months claiming the PUP?

All though they were entitled to work at least in part and claim it.

Good for them.

They were only entitled to work if they were working on social housing or other exempt projects. Most did not have that luxury.

Now they can do nixers - lots did, but they werent allowed on sites.

Boggles

timmyntc wrote: »

They were only entitled to work if they were working on social housing or other exempt projects. Most did not have that luxury.

Nope.

Certain sites were closed.

Self employed trades people were deemed essential.

Unless you think if someone suffered a burst pipe in January they had to wait until April to get it fixed?

The vast majority of construction workers never stopped working, that is not my opinion.

Captain_Crash

paw patrol wrote: »

I know I'm in a minority

Propaganda 101, make dissenters believe they’re the minority!

I’m yet to actually meet or speak to anyone (excluding this thread) who believes the level of restrictions up to now are appropriate...... not one! But on the radio and in the media you'd believe they’re a dime a dozen

timmyntc

Boggles wrote: »

Nope.

Certain sites were closed.

Self employed trades people were deemed essential.

Unless you think if someone suffered a burst pipe in January they had to wait until April to get it fixed?

The vast majority of construction workers never stopped working, that is not my opinion.

It sure sounds like an opinion. Can you back it up with any facts?

In January as construction started to wind down, The Examiner reported

So far, as more sites close down, there are 32,150 construction industry claimants.
...
In construction, where sites started to close down last week, the number of claimants this week represents about a quarter of all people employed in the industry.

Senior economist Jim Power said he had no doubt that the overall PUP numbers will rise again in the coming weeks, as the construction industry, in particular, continues to shake out workers from those sites that must close during the current restrictions.

So you think all 32k of these are falsely claiming while still working?

ypres5

timmyntc wrote: »

It sure sounds like an opinion. Can you back it up with any facts?

In January as construction started to wind down, we had


So you think all 32k of these are falsely claiming while still working?

This is just boggles little rabbit hole he likes to lead people down. He makes this grand sweeping statement about construction and when confronted for evidence he becomes uncharacteristically evasive and plays persecuted over the span of several days. Just leave him to his daydreams about the construction industry and move on.

Boggles

timmyntc wrote: »

It sure sounds like an opinion. Can you back it up with any facts?

In January as construction started to wind down, The Examiner reported


So you think all 32k of these are falsely claiming while still working?

Nope. Leo did make a claim to the effect last year.

But Is basic maths a fact?

150,000 construction workers in the country.

I imagine you can do the rest.

Also you were entitled to claim PUP and work.

I didn't ask the guy who serviced my boiler in March if he was on PUP TBH, didn't seem appropriate, or the chimney cleaner.

FlubberJones

Boggles wrote: »

Nope.

Certain sites were closed.

Self employed trades people were deemed essential.

Unless you think if someone suffered a burst pipe in January they had to wait until April to get it fixed?

The vast majority of construction workers never stopped working, that is not my opinion.

I live right near the enormous Cherrywood construction site, one of the biggest ongoing in Ireland at the moment... not a soul touched it for the entire lockdown months after Christmas. Only returned in the last week or so, when they were given the all clear.

Boggles

FlubberJones wrote: »

I live right near the enormous Cherrywood construction site, one of the biggest ongoing in Ireland at the moment... not a soul touched it for the entire lockdown months after Christmas. Only returned in the last week or so, when they were given the all clear.

Does one swallow make a summer?

Certain sites were closed, the contention on here is there wasn't a brick laid or wiring ran since December.

It's nonsense.

timmyntc

Boggles wrote: »

Nope. Leo did make a claim to the effect last year.

But Is basic maths a fact?

150,000 construction workers in the country.

I imagine you can do the rest.

Also you were entitled to claim PUP and work.

I didn't ask the guy who serviced my boiler in March if he was on PUP TBH, didn't seem appropriate, or the chimney cleaner.

The article states its only the tip of the iceberg and that numbers would increase.
How about this article from February:

The sectors with the highest number of people receiving PUP this week are Accommodation and Food Service activities (110,697) followed by Wholesale and Retail Trade (75,196) and Construction (61,077)

61k approx half of all workers in the sector, claiming PUP and we are to believe theyre all still working?

Pull the other one. :rolleyes:

Boggles

timmyntc wrote: »

61k approx half of all workers in the sector, claiming PUP and we are to believe theyre all still working?

61,000 half of 150,000?

Nope.

Again that isn't my opinion.

Also it was Tom Parlon who said large amounts of them were doing "nixers".

You'll have take it up with him.

ArthurDayne

gozunda wrote: »

Nope. You really need to stop trying to prove so many things that you end up disproving them all instead.

And yes the policy has been to minimise the rate of infection. We clearly can't do zero covid due to a range of factors already much discussed in this thread.

But what we can do and have done is minimise / keep down the rate of infection. And we can clearly see that policy has worked as overall we have had a low infection rate and deaths compared to other countries.
Could we ever reduce those figures to zeo? I somehow doubt it. You obviously think otherwise. As to your idea of a "tolerable threshold"? Why do you believe that somehow can be measured?

Do the restrictions to date justify where we are atm ? I believe they do. The current roll back of restrictions has been only made possible by our current low rate of infection but more importantly something new which you are oddly ignoring - vaccination.

And thats where we are.

Yep there you go....you won't actually tell us what the tolerable threshold of minisation was . And so, because you can just set whatever parameter you find handy today, here you are telling us that with 5,000 people dead and a year of socioeconomically destructive restrictions - the policy has worked well. But if the policy was just "minimisation" -- why isn't it just 4,000 dead, or 3,000 dead, or 2,000 dead?

If another guy came along today and said oh well i actually think "minimising Covid" would have meant far stronger measures and permanent Level 5 for a year ...what would your argument be then? You'd probably say something like Covid was minimised to just about a tolerable level right ?

So what is tolerable? You tell me ...like forget the government strategy for a second and just give me your own personal tolerable threshold. Or do you just want to keep sitting on that fence where you don't have to ask yourself the hard questions and blame anyone who at least tries?

Sharpyshoot

Boggles wrote: »

61,000 half of 150,000?

Nope.

Again that isn't my opinion.

Also it was Tom Parlon who said large amounts of them were doing "nixers".

You'll have take it up with him.

Johnny cash is thriving.

ypres5

Boggles wrote: »

Does one swallow make a summer?

Certain sites were closed, the contention on here is there wasn't a brick laid or wiring ran since December.

It's nonsense.

Where's your proof the majority were working?