Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

SAMTALK

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Are you familiar with the term "mission creep"? It basically describes a "sure while we're at it" situation. If you're rewiring your kitchen, you may as well fix the plumbing issues at the same time while you have the walls ripped down.

The social engineering which the government (and various lobby groups) have long desired with regard to alcohol and nightlife are essentially being snuck in through the back door of covid. This is inarguable, in my view. Whether or not you actually agree with such social engineering is irrelevant to the fact that the pandemic can be and is being used to trial it.

And if Covid hadnt come along how would they have engineered this ?

SAMTALK

Zebra3 wrote: »

Why did we lockdown five times longer than Denmark for the same results?

I don't know the answer to that but it's funny how comparisions are only made to countries that seem to have done better but ignore countries that were worse

paddyisreal

gozunda wrote: »

See that B&Bs and hotels remain closed with the 24th May being "considered" as a possible date for their return

So a week before hotels etc here ...

As people on here forecast the government s hand forced by Northern Ireland. Had to bring everything forward, I'd say tony and co were cursing them.

Mitch Connor

the idea that the irish government would even be competent enough to engage in social reengineering on this level is just laughable.

It isn't the government trying to kill off alcohol, its the government simply being incompetent.

Occam's razor.

1. the government is a maniacle manipulative evil shadowy force trying to take away your night club.
2. the govenment of career politicians and people who have zero qualifications in the areas they lead, are simply incompetent and don't know how to handle a massive global pandemic.

OH WHICH COULD IT BE?

Graham

charlie14 wrote: »

I don`t buy this financial trouble idea. It may have been a consideration, but opening up with case numbers, hospital and I.C.U. admissions rising like we did after Christmas resulting in another "break" like Germany, wasn`t going to do a lot for the economy or peoples confidence.

It was always about the vaccines and at what level to begin phased re-opening. People were complaining we were not at the same level as the U.K. but that has actually worked in our favour.

I don`t believe it is just coincidence that this has been announced over 2 weeks after the U.K. began opening, where present data would show if the U.K. got the level of vaccination wrong, or that re-opening here will be similar to their level when doing so.

One of the benefits of not being the first is we get to see how different scenarios play out in other countries.

I'm sure governments the world over will be keeping a close watch on the likes of the UK and Israel and tracking the impact of restrictions being relaxed and vaccination numbers increasing.

11521323

Graham wrote: »

One of the benefits of not being the first is we get to see how different scenarios play out in other countries.

I'm sure governments the world over will be keeping a close watch on the likes of the UK and Israel and tracking the impact of restrictions being relaxed and vaccination numbers increasing.

Whether or not vaccines work though, or to what level they work, is largely irrelevant.

If vaccines didn't work as planned, what would we do then? Live perpetually in lockdown cycles forever?

Graham

11521323 wrote: »

Whether or not vaccines work though, or to what level they work, is largely irrelevant.

I suppose you could think that.

I can't imagine why but there you go.

charlie14

paddyisreal wrote: »

As people on here forecast the government s hand forced by Northern Ireland. Had to bring everything forward, I'd say tony and co were cursing them.

Seems if people were forecasting that then they got it wrong.
From all reports they are following the recommendations from "tony and co".

There were some here saying the government would be forced to follow Northern Ireland due to them opening for outdoor dining and pub service but that doesn`t make a lot of sense either.
Outdoor dining and pub service opens today in Northern Ireland, but not until June 7th. here.

paddyisreal

charlie14 wrote: »

Seems if people were forecasting that then they got it wrong.
From all reports they are following the recommendations from "tony and co".

There were some here saying the government would be forced to follow Northern Ireland due to them opening for outdoor dining and pub service but that doesn`t make a lot of sense either.
Outdoor dining and pub service opens today in Northern Ireland, but not until June 7th. here.

hotels are open a week after Northern Ireland now, outdoor dining was July now it's early June and non essential brought forward weeks as well. It's as plainly obvious their hand was forced .
They know well no one in the county border areas is listening to them. I'd say half the cues outside pennies is from the south !

PTH2009

A rise in cases the media all over it like a rash, scaremongering still going on

Bloody covid had plans to visit the Smithwick's Experience tour in Kilkenny but shockingly it has closed permanently

https://www.independent.ie/life/travel/travel-news/kilkennys-award-winning-smithwicks-experience-to-close-its-doorspermanently-40373447.html

charlie14

paddyisreal wrote: »

hotels are open a week after Northern Ireland now, outdoor dining was July now it's early June and non essential brought forward weeks as well. It's as plainly obvious their hand was forced .
They know well no one in the county border areas is listening to them. I'd say half the cues outside pennies is from the south !

When were all these these openings dates for non-essentials and outdoor dinning first announced that have now been brought forward ?
I must have missed that particular announcement.

The real hole in your theory, (and that of others who were predicting that the governments hand would be forced by Northern Ireland), is in outdoor dining and especially outdoor pub service. There is over a 5 week difference.
The reality is it`s to do with the science, not hand forcing.
I would have thought that was obvious at this stage.

paddyisreal

charlie14 wrote: »

When were all these these openings dates for non-essentials and outdoor dinning first announced that have now been brought forward ?
I must have missed that particular announcement.

The real hole in your theory, (and that of others who were predicting that the governments hand would be forced by Northern Ireland), is in outdoor dining and especially outdoor pub service. There is over a 5 week difference.
The reality is it`s to do with the science, not hand forcing.
I would have thought that was obvious at this stage.

Yeah really the science you and a few others here were quoting up to 2 days ago saying we have to wait till we had 50 percent vaccinations done. That fairly went out the window didn't it

Graham

paddyisreal wrote: »

hotels are open a week after Northern Ireland now, outdoor dining was July now it's early June and non essential brought forward weeks as well. It's as plainly obvious their hand was forced

One of the benefits of not being the first is we get to see how different scenarios play out in other countries.

I'd say it's more likely we're influenced by the results from the UK who are several weeks ahead of NI.

It's quite likely we'll see similar reopening patterns repeated across the world.

charlie14

paddyisreal wrote: »

Yeah really the science you and a few others here were quoting up to 2 days ago saying we have to wait till we had 50 percent vaccinations done. That fairly went out the window didn't it

Paddy like a few others you are probably spending to much time here and have become unaware of how the real world is. Presently we are at 30% first dose and 11% second vaccinated.

Myself and a few others have been saying that the science for phased re-opening was there in the U.K. data for anyone who wished to see it.
Their phased re-opening for outdoor dining and outdoor pub service was based on a 50% first dose vaccination level. By June 7th. I`m confident we will have reached that percentage level or even higher.

munchkin_utd

paddyisreal wrote: »

Yeah really the science you and a few others here were quoting up to 2 days ago saying we have to wait till we had 50 percent vaccinations done. That fairly went out the window didn't it

in fairness some of the targets are really far down the line and in the meantime Ireland will be lashing out 250,000 doses a week

A few weeks of that and you have your 50% with at least one dose, especially when the HSE is cooking the numbers and only quoting as a percentage of the adult population !!

charlie14

munchkin_utd wrote: »

in fairness some of the targets are really far down the line and in the meantime Ireland will be lashing out 250,000 doses a week

A few weeks of that and you have your 50% with at least one dose, especially when the HSE is cooking the numbers and only quoting as a percentage of the adult population !!

How so ?
The H.S.E. is quoting vaccinated numbers using the same metric the U.K. did on their 50% for the start of phased re-opening are they not!!

franciscanpunk

has there been any confirmation or leaks of what the closing time for pubs and restuarants will be when they are open again.i wonder will it be normal licensing hours without the extensions or do we all have to be home in our beds again by 11?

FintanMcluskey

Graham wrote: »

One of the benefits of not being the first is we get to see how different scenarios play out in other countries.

I'd say it's more likely we're influenced by the results from the UK who are several weeks ahead of NI.

It's quite likely we'll see similar reopening patterns repeated across the world.

We ain’t scientific pioneers, we’ve been the globes most suppressed & cautious nation for 14 months

Why the change?

The moneys gone

Simple as

And eh, we are reopening to align with the rest of the world, not become more relaxed

munchkin_utd

charlie14 wrote: »

How so ?
The H.S.E. is quoting vaccinated numbers using the same metric the U.K. did on their 50% for the start of phased re-opening are they not!!

I'll quote the boss....

“Biggest day yet in the #CovidVaccine rollout yesterday with 41,500 doses given out,” the Taoiseach tweeted.

It amounts to more than the equivalent of 1 per cent of the adult population of 3.8 million receiving a dose in a single day.

Micheál Martin said 25 per cent of eligible adults have so far received their first dose (948,000) while 10 per cent were fully vaccinated with two doses (381,000).

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-five-further-deaths-and-461-new-cases-reported-as-a-quarter-of-adults-get-first-vaccine-1.4546874

For herd immunity you need to count kids and infants, not only "eligible adults"

11521323

Graham wrote: »

I suppose you could think that.

I can't imagine why but there you go.

Conveniently dodged the second half of my question. They are irrelevant in that context.

sporina

i assume hotels can serve food/beer to residents?

charlie14

munchkin_utd wrote: »

I'll quote the boss....


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-five-further-deaths-and-461-new-cases-reported-as-a-quarter-of-adults-get-first-vaccine-1.4546874

For herd immunity you need to count kids and infants, not only "eligible adults"

Herd immunity is a totally different matter. That would be the ideal level to get to asap, but it has nothing to do with us re-opening based on the same phased re-opening as the U.K.

The U.K. 50% is based on their adult population, not their total population. Same metric we are using here.

Two days ago Ireland had administered 1,067,378 first doses and 419,665 second. That is over 28% of our adult population first dose and 11% second. I do not see by the end of the week that 28% figure will not be as near as makes no difference to 30%
With supply now being more reliable I really do see us being below that 50% level of the U.K. five weeks later when outdoor dining and outdoor pub service opens on June 7th.

charlie14

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

We ain’t scientific pioneers, we’ve been the globes most suppressed & cautious nation for 14 months

Why the change?

The moneys gone

Simple as

And eh, we are reopening to align with the rest of the world, not become more relaxed

Eh, we are reopening in line with the scientific data. It`s nothing to do with what the rest of the world may decide to chance their arm on.

Simple as

paddyisreal

charlie14 wrote: »

Paddy like a few others you are probably spending to much time here and have become unaware of how the real world is. Presently we are at 30% first dose and 11% second vaccinated.

Myself and a few others have been saying that the science for phased re-opening was there in the U.K. data for anyone who wished to see it.
Their phased re-opening for outdoor dining and outdoor pub service was based on a 50% first dose vaccination level. By June 7th. I`m confident we will have reached that percentage level or even higher.

But there are numerous restrictions being lifted on the 10th of may when we will not be within an arses roar of 50 percent and that's a fact of the real world as you call it. You have changed the position to 50 percent for outdoor dining

Stormyteacup

charlie14 wrote: »

Eh, we are reopening in line with the scientific data. It`s nothing to do with what the rest of the world may decide to chance their arm on.

Simple as

And if the plan had been more protracted and resembled kite flying over the past few weeks, the reopening would still be in line with the scientific data.

Really doesn’t seem to matter what NPHET decide to recommend, they will be spot on and perfectly in line with scientific data.

Graham

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

We ain’t scientific pioneers, we’ve been the globes most suppressed & cautious nation for 14 months

Why the change?

The moneys gone

Simple as

And eh, we are reopening to align with the rest of the world, not become more relaxed

Yeah, that must be it.

We're definitely, absolutely, one hundred percent not relaxing restrictions because we have manageable case numbers, low hospitalisations, lower death rates and a vaccination program.

Absolutely not.

No Sireee.

No way.


Better

scamalert

Stormyteacup wrote: »

And if the plan had been more protracted and resembled kite flying over the past few weeks, the reopening would still be in line with the scientific data.

Really doesn’t seem to matter what NPHET decide to recommend, they will be spot on and perfectly in line with scientific data.

i think in the big picture nphet are done, wont matter much what they talk anymore, in May we should see more vaccines then needed come in, so none of the excuses to holdfirm take it easy will dictate anything, as imagine gov have to look at the cost eventually and that will be greater disaster for all of us, but its topic for another thread.

Stormyteacup

Graham wrote: »

Yeah, that must be it.

We're definitely, absolutely, one hundred percent not relaxing restrictions because we have manageable case numbers, low hospitalisations, lower death rates and a vaccination program.

Absolutely not.

No Sireee.

No way.


Better

We had those weeks ago.

If we were waiting to see what happened in UK, was that a secret? What use were Philip Nolan’s highly scientific data-filled models in that case? Apparently forecasting easing of restrictions is hugely complex and a myriad of factors have a bearing.

But actually it was - UK seem okay, we’re good to go.

Graham

Stormyteacup wrote: »

And if the plan had been more protracted and resembled kite flying over the past few weeks, the reopening would still be in line with the scientific data.

Really doesn’t seem to matter what NPHET decide to recommend, they will be spot on and perfectly in line with scientific data.

You understand that there's no scientific data calendar with a set reopening date and time don't you? That we've collected more data over the last few weeks. That we've been able to monitor the impact of restrictions being eased in the UK.

Graham

Stormyteacup wrote: »

We had those weeks ago.

and what did we do?

Relax restrictions

Monitored the impact

Relaxed the restrictions some more