IFA v Lidl/Aldi

The J Stands for Jay

green daries wrote: »

but sure nobody is coming in undercutting these peoples incomes and just replacing them with a labour unit willing to do there job for half their pay .....

Yes, those people working in Dell, Gateway, Fruit of the Loom would be up in arms if their jobs went to cheaper countries. Imagine the outrage amongst travel agents, bank tellers, postmasters,and journalists if someone suggested the internet could replace their jobs.

screamer

I find all own brand milk to be pure muck compared to the main brands, and I only buy that. Price is more I know that, but I prefer to pay an extra 50 cents for 2 litres, I can taste the difference between them, and being honest, the main brand milk lasts far longer too.

Jizique

screamer wrote: »

I find all own brand milk to be pure muck compared to the main brands, and I only buy that. Price is more I know that, but I prefer to pay an extra 50 cents for 2 litres, I can taste the difference between them, and being honest, the main brand milk lasts far longer too.

Good for you - we used to buy Glenisk, but it didn’t foam properly on my wife’s coffee so we switched to the Aldi organic, which is perfect

Bass Reeves

screamer wrote: »

I find all own brand milk to be pure muck compared to the main brands, and I only buy that. Price is more I know that, but I prefer to pay an extra 50 cents for 2 litres, I can taste the difference between them, and being honest, the main brand milk lasts far longer too.

You are deluded

Calahonda52

McGaggs wrote: »

Yes, those people working in Dell, Gateway, Fruit of the Loom would be up in arms if their jobs went to cheaper countries. Imagine the outrage amongst travel agents, bank tellers, postmasters,and journalists if someone suggested the internet could replace their jobs.

If You can do your job from anywhere ( in this new digital age)
Then
Someone anywhere can do YOUR job

The J Stands for Jay

Calahonda52 wrote: »

If You can do your job from anywhere ( in this new digital age)
Then
Someone anywhere can do YOUR job

Yes, but this is also true of senior management, so they keep it quiet too.

youllbemine

screamer wrote: »

I find all own brand milk to be pure muck compared to the main brands, and I only buy that. Price is more I know that, but I prefer to pay an extra 50 cents for 2 litres, I can taste the difference between them, and being honest, the main brand milk lasts far longer too.

The argument that milk is better because it lasts longer isn't a very reassuring point. If milk is lasting beyond 3/4 days then it's been so processed that theres no life left in it.

MF290

I can see very little chance of Irish milk ever being more than a bargain basement commodity with ever tighter margins based on the pervasive attitudes here.
It becomes a perpetual race to the bottom if the like of Lidl/Aldi can invent an imaginary creamery to compete with co-op owned brands. It also damages smaller authentic brands and the premium they enjoy if the consumer struggles to differentiate between Lidl own brand and a premium product. Let's not overestimate the consumer's knowledge of dairy supply chains either, I'm a beef farmer and I only have a rudimentary understanding of it.
Consumers are largely price orientated but not completely why else would Tesco/Supervalue stock more expensive brands and own brands? Why would there be an Audi, Volkswagen and a Skoda?
Strathroy are currently paying a higher milk price to the farmer than many coops but with ever lower margins, pushing farmer owned coops profits lower. It's farmers who will be paying the cost of decreased margins long term, not the consumer, the middlemain or the supermarket.
Food branding and labelling are massive issues. In a similar vein vegan and vegetarian products are currently borrowing traditional meat terminology to market products which are anything but similar nutritionally.
Liquid milk is small in terms of dairy output but take for example the branding of infant formula. Irish farmers supply the green image and the high quality safe product at commodity prices while large corporation like Danone and Wyeth harvest most of the profits solely based on brand. Eoin Lowry and Lorcan Allen did a very interesting series on this. https://www.farmersjournal.ie/should-ireland-develop-an-infant-formula-brand-304497
Irish farmers are asleep at the wheel relinquishing control of their coops, allowing existing brands be undermined and producing more for less.

RandomViewer

screamer wrote: »

I find all own brand milk to be pure muck compared to the main brands, and I only buy that. Price is more I know that, but I prefer to pay an extra 50 cents for 2 litres, I can taste the difference between them, and being honest, the main brand milk lasts far longer too.

I used to work in a creamery, they come from the same tank, Summer quality would be better than Winter as thered be a mix of one and two day milk in Winter

odyssey06

MF290 wrote: »

I can see very little chance of Irish milk ever being more than a bargain basement commodity with ever tighter margins based on the pervasive attitudes here.
It becomes a perpetual race to the bottom if the like of Lidl/Aldi can invent an imaginary creamery to compete with co-op owned brands. It also damages smaller authentic brands and the premium they enjoy if the consumer struggles to differentiate between Lidl own brand and a premium product.

I think you have it the wrong way around.
What's "premium" about the "premium" product from the consumer's perspective?

If the consumer struggles to differentiate between own brand under an invented 'creamery' label, between Tesco own brand, and some co-op label which is just an invented label, should you not ask yourself if there is a differentiation?
If the only difference is that LIDL have creamery on the label?
They don't detect any real difference in the product.

Certainly nothing worth paying a premium for or - in the LIDL case - buying their milk elsewhere.
LIDL aren't competing with co-op brands.
They are competing with Tesco, Supervalu, Dunnes and ALDI.

Consumers are largely price orientated but not completely why else would Tesco/Supervalue stock more expensive brands and own brands? Why would there be an Audi, Volkswagen and a Skoda?

It would be interesting to see the demographic breakdown of milk purchases in Tesco\Supervalu for own brand sales v branded sales.
I expect a lot of the brand based purchases are simply brand loyalty purchases by older consumers who always bought brand X.

odyssey06

RandomViewer wrote: »

I used to work in a creamery, they come from the same tank, Summer quality would be better than Winter as thered be a mix of one and two day milk in Winter

I wonder if the shelf life relates to some other factor, such as how quickly the product makes it into store, packaging etc

Avonmore milk says:
Keep refrigerated between 0ºC and 5ºC. Once opened consume within 7 days and use by date

Supervalu own brand milk says:
Keep refrigerated at 0º-5ºC. Once opened use within 3 days and before use by date shown on top of carton.

wrangler

odyssey06 wrote: »

I wonder if the shelf life relates to some other factor, such as how quickly the product makes it into store, packaging etc

Avonmore milk says:
Keep refrigerated between 0ºC and 5ºC. Once opened consume within 7 days and use by date

Supervalu own brand milk says:
Keep refrigerated at 0º-5ºC. Once opened use within 3 days and before use by date shown on top of carton.

I'd say that the reason that supermarkets use own brand is so that the creameries always have to compete to supply own brand, they can take milk from anywhere for it....... race to the bottom really

whelan2

Would many people take 7 days to use up a carton of milk?

odyssey06

whelan2 wrote: »

Would many people take 7 days to use up a carton of milk?

Probably not! But I am curious as to why they would be different and what the LIDL carton says

odyssey06

wrangler wrote: »

I'd say that the reason that supermarkets use own brand is so that the creameries always have to compete to supply own brand, they can take milk from anywhere for it....... race to the bottom really

For sure, but all supermarkets are doing it, not just LIDL and ALDI.
All the main supermarkets have own brand milk.

An ad attacking LIDL and ALDI for 'fake' brand or a campaign which compelled LIDL and ALDI to use own brand would do nothing about the above situation.

RandomViewer

wrangler wrote: »

I'd say that the reason that supermarkets use own brand is so that the creameries always have to compete to supply own brand, they can take milk from anywhere for it....... race to the bottom really

The idea of own brand is that it will be cheaper than branded, whether milk, bread or pasta, branded product has an an advantage as they are stocked in more stores than own brands, what they lose in supermarket sales they take up in convenience store sales,
The farmers are getting the same money whether its branded or unbranded so where is the race to the bottom?

wrangler

RandomViewer wrote: »

The idea of own brand is that it will be cheaper than branded, whether milk, bread or pasta, branded product has an an advantage as they are stocked in more stores than own brands, what they lose in supermarket sales they take up in convenience store sales,
The farmers are getting the same money whether its branded or unbranded so where is the race to the bottom?

The creameries have to under cut each other to supply the own brand. lower prices drags down all products.
I doubt if supermarkets lose money on own brand

RandomViewer

wrangler wrote: »

The creameries have to under cut each other to supply the own brand. lower prices drags down all products.
I doubt if supermarkets lose money on own brand

Most own brand is plastic bottle 2l, whereas branded product is Tetra carton, production cost of printed Tetra is higher than plastic 2l so is priced accordingly, most creameries also sell a sub brand of their own in the price range of supermarket own brand,

Jizique

RandomViewer wrote: »

Most own brand is plastic bottle 2l, whereas branded product is Tetra carton, production cost of printed Tetra is higher than plastic 2l so is priced accordingly, most creameries also sell a sub brand of their own in the price range of supermarket own brand,

When I was a kid, cream crackers were a thing; club milks, both easily advertised and owned by Jacobs with their big factory in Tallaght, cream crackers with a slice of cheddar; these products have largely disappeared, they are never advertised any more - did the brands not get the support from the owner or did consumer taste change? At least with milk, demand should be largely stable and the threat is from alt milk rather than from own label

Jizique

odyssey06 wrote: »

I wonder if the shelf life relates to some other factor, such as how quickly the product makes it into store, packaging etc

Avonmore milk says:
Keep refrigerated between 0ºC and 5ºC. Once opened consume within 7 days and use by date

Supervalu own brand milk says:
Keep refrigerated at 0º-5ºC. Once opened use within 3 days and before use by date shown on top of carton.

Good luck putting avonmore on your tea seven days after opening

Sheep breeder

screamer wrote: »

I find all own brand milk to be pure muck compared to the main brands, and I only buy that. Price is more I know that, but I prefer to pay an extra 50 cents for 2 litres, I can taste the difference between them, and being honest, the main brand milk lasts far longer too.

Can you please explain the difference, most cows are giving in or around the same fat and protein content from a grass based system. Milk is taken from a cow to a very high standard on all farms and cooled and hygiene is second to none or the price drops. Winter milk is produced from mostly tmr feed to cows and handled the same way as spring milk.

Jb1989

RandomViewer wrote: »

Most own brand is plastic bottle 2l, whereas branded product is Tetra carton, production cost of printed Tetra is higher than plastic 2l so is priced accordingly, most creameries also sell a sub brand of their own in the price range of supermarket own brand,

I agree on the packaging affecting taste.
I can enjoy drinking our 1 litre milk 'straight' out of the cardboard style carton, but can't like the taste of the 2 litre or 500 ml plastic carton.
Tho havent noticed a taste difference if any is poured into a glass or mug.

Bass Reeves

Sheep breeder wrote: »

Can you please explain the difference, most cows are giving in or around the same fat and protein content from a grass based system. Milk is taken from a cow to a very high standard on all farms and cooled and hygiene is second to none or the price drops. Winter milk is produced from mostly tmr feed to cows and handled the same way as spring milk.

As well all cows are milk into same tank and milk is carried on the same tanker from a group of farms, it is unloaded into huge bulk tanks. It is batch homogenised and then packaged for sale as own brand or branded products

thenightman

Don't ruin that milk aficionados fantasy that his branded milk is collected by fashion models and driven to a swanky dairy in D4 in a fleet of Mercs before being personally hand bottled and carefully placed into the fridge in his supermarket!

Base price

Jb1989 wrote: »

I agree on the packaging affecting taste.
I can enjoy drinking our 1 litre milk 'straight' out of the cardboard style carton, but can't like the taste of the 2 litre or 500 ml plastic carton.
Tho havent noticed a taste difference if any is poured into a glass or mug.

I reckon there is a taint from the larger plastic containers of milk. I buy 1ltr cartons of Avonmore milk when I'm in my place in Longford and I buy Premier Dairies 1ltr milk when I'm home in NCD - support your local dairy farmer.

whelan2

Have a 2 litre container here bought on Thursday 26th, date on it is 5th April. That's a long time

Bullocks

whelan2 wrote: »

Have a 2 litre container here bought on Thursday 26th, date on it is 5th April. That's a long time

Do ye ever take a jug from the tank?

whelan2

Bullocks wrote: »

Do ye ever take a jug from the tank?

Very rarely. Not great for the waistline. Kids can't believe the difference in the taste

Bullocks

whelan2 wrote: »

Very rarely. Not great for the waistline. Kids can't believe the difference in the taste

If milk was the only thing swelling my waistline I wouldn't be too bad haha.

Bass Reeves

whelan2 wrote: »

Very rarely. Not great for the waistline. Kids can't believe the difference in the taste

We buy a pasteurised milk that is supplied by a small dairy down named Ardfert milk. It taste is completely different to homogenised milk. It costs 2.75 for two litres. We use ordinary low-fat for tea or coffee etc

odyssey06

Bass Reeves wrote: »

We buy a pasteurised milk that is supplied by a small dairy down named Ardfert milk. It taste is completely different to homogenised milk. It costs 2.75 for two litres. We use ordinary low-fat for tea or coffee etc

People drinking milk as a drink in itself probably more willing to pay a premium for a particular milk.
But where it is being used primarily in a 'supporting' role it's a commodity purchase on price.

Hard Knocks

Jb1989 wrote: »

I agree on the packaging affecting taste.
I can enjoy drinking our 1 litre milk 'straight' out of the cardboard style carton, but can't like the taste of the 2 litre or 500 ml plastic carton.
Tho havent noticed a taste difference if any is poured into a glass or mug.

Plastic containers are convenient but do affect the contents
If you open a plastic bottle of 7up drink some resell and put in the fridge and open a can and put opened in the fridge you’ll notice the plastic goes flat quicker

RandomViewer

Base price wrote: »

I reckon there is a taint from the larger plastic containers of milk. I buy 1ltr cartons of Avonmore milk when I'm in my place in Longford and I buy Premier Dairies 1ltr milk when I'm home in NCD - support your local dairy farmer.

If the milk is kept chilled through the supply chain there shouldn't be a taste but if it gets to room temperature there will be a hint of plastic,

FileNotFound

While I don't think that there is any difference in taste due to branding.

I imagine that different parts of the country (different creameries) will have slight differences. Maybe this is what people are really tasting? When people say they buy branded milk is it just 1 brand?

I don't imagine that any creamery is changing process too much between batches. So in theory any shop brand they pack should taste the same as their own??

FileNotFound

Hard Knocks wrote: »

Plastic containers are convenient but do affect the contents
If you open a plastic bottle of 7up drink some resell and put in the fridge and open a can and put opened in the fridge you’ll notice the plastic goes flat quicker

Wouldn't that most likely be down to the smooth can surface v rough plastic (that centre piece on the bottom) and their relative effects on CO2 formation.

Basically the same concept that is used in pint glasses?

RandomViewer

FileNotFound wrote: »

While I don't think that there is any difference in taste due to branding.

I imagine that different parts of the country (different creameries) will have slight differences. Maybe this is what people are really tasting? When people say they buy branded milk is it just 1 brand?

I don't imagine that any creamery is changing process too much between batches. So in theory any shop brand they pack should taste the same as their own??

Same type of cows, same diet, everything pasteurised and homogenised to the same fat content, I can't see how there would be much difference,
They'd only be changing the labels on the containers from one brand to another

monseiur

RandomViewer wrote: »

Same type of cows, same diet, everything pasteurised and homogenised to the same fat content, I can't see how there would be much difference,
They'd only be changing the labels on the containers from one brand to another

You're 100% correct. A friend worked for over 25 years for a well known bakery.
The bakery had their own brand and also supplied most of the big supermarkets with their ''own brand'' bread...same bread only difference they had to change the paper in the wrapping machine !

cute geoge

FileNotFound wrote: »

While I don't think that there is any difference in taste due to branding.

I imagine that different parts of the country (different creameries) will have slight differences. Maybe this is what people are really tasting? When people say they buy branded milk is it just 1 brand?

I don't imagine that any creamery is changing process too much between batches. So in theory any shop brand they pack should taste the same as their own??

Well Lee strand will have fresh milk delivered to shops within 24 hours from the time the farmer delivered his milk from his bulk tank to the cremary contrast this to other places where they would be 2 days collections and by the time the lorry collects and it is processed the milk could easily be 4 or 5 days old at this stage

FileNotFound

cute geoge wrote: »

Well Lee strand will have fresh milk delivered to shops within 24 hours from the time the farmer delivered his milk from his bulk tank to the cremary contrast this to other places where they would be 2 days collections and by the time the lorry collects and it is processed the milk could easily be 4 or 5 days old at this stage

Sure different creameries will have diff practices and get milk from different areas. There differences would exist.


If you buy a creamery brand and then buy the supermarket brand they pack (say tesco) - those milks will be the same and any taste difference will really be in ones head.

Bass Reeves

RandomViewer wrote: »

Same type of cows, same diet, everything pasteurised and homogenised to the same fat content, I can't see how there would be much difference,
They'd only be changing the labels on the containers from one brand to another

There are two noticeable taste differences in milk. The first is the difference between homogenized and pasturized. Nowadays it is hard to get pasturized only milk as homogenized milk has a longer best before date and milk can be processed longer in life by homogenizing. The other noticeable taste difference can be during the winter if farmers are feeding beet to milking cows. Beet leaves a definite taint in the milk. Few Southern Irish produces use beet however it was commonly used in NI

Bass Reeves

cute geoge wrote: »

Well Lee strand will have fresh milk delivered to shops within 24 hours from the time the farmer delivered his milk from his bulk tank to the cremary contrast this to other places where they would be 2 days collections and by the time the lorry collects and it is processed the milk could easily be 4 or 5 days old at this stage

No shops get daily deliveries of milk any longer. Milk is delivered normally twice or at most three times a week. Processors collect milk every second at best I think it is a condition with most processors that you have two days storage at peak supply

cute geoge

Bass Reeves wrote: »

No shops get daily deliveries of milk any longer. Milk is delivered normally twice or at most three times a week. Processors collect milk every second at best I think it is a condition with most processors that you have two days storage at peak supply

Lee strand liquid milk is delivered daily by farmers with bulk tank drawn to creamery behind jeep or cars daily .Lee strand pride themselves in daily delivery to shops

whelan2

Bass Reeves wrote: »

No shops get daily deliveries of milk any longer. Milk is delivered normally twice or at most three times a week. Processors collect milk every second at best I think it is a condition with most processors that you have two days storage at peak supply

Milk collected here every day. Plenty of storage