Private school teachers prioritised for vaccinations

astrofool

ted1 wrote: »

Are teachers not front line up public sector workers ?
Why Dublin , what’s wrong with Wicklow. The school is closer to the beacon than much of Dublin

But not as close as other bigger private and public schools.

ted1

political analyst wrote: »

There's a difference between owning a bank and owning a stake of a bank, even if it is 90% of the bank. Many ordinary people who have bank accounts would've lost their money if the 2008 bailout hadn't taken place.

Whose talking about bail out? I’m talking about excessive wages and interest rates

Amirani

steddyeddy wrote: »

But they're engaged in putting people at risk by withholding state bought medicine.

Fine, the courts can determine if that's the case and make a decision on what happens.

A Minister still can't fire an employee at a private company.

steddyeddy

ted1 wrote: »

It certainly does, teachers are front line workers. Who should be all vaccinated . Teenagers are not.

Ted the idea that you're now arguing for priority is laughable. As if you care whether teenagers get vaccinated before or after the more vulnerable. If the CEO of a company vaccinated their child ahead of elderly patients you would be the first in with:

Originally Posted by ted1 View Post
So you’d prefer they went to waste ?

thomas 123

ted1 wrote: »

Are teachers not front line up public sector workers ?
Why Dublin , what’s wrong with Wicklow. The school is closer to the beacon than much of Dublin

Ted they are not on the list currently, it wouldn’t matter if it was mother Teresa for the love of god!

If we can vaccinate who we want give me one right now.

steddyeddy

steddyeddy wrote: »

That's debatable.

When I worked as a hospital biochemist we had back up lists for everything. As some patients were higher priority than others. Those priorities were defined by risk factors.

The vaccination schedule in civilised countries in made based on risk factors. The person who decided to vaccinate low risk teachers has by design but higher risk people at risk for longer periods of time.

These teenagers will have take 40 vaccinations ahead of much higher risk members of society.

That's fine. You know better than me how it would work internally.

What part of my comment are you actually disagreeing with? I don't think anything you said really dealt with the same issues.

ted1

astrofool wrote: »

But not as close as other bigger private and public schools.

So your only issue is the fact he had a connection with the school ?
If he called st.tiernans you’d have no issue.
If it’s a choice between two , would you not the call the one you know can deliver.

Plumbthedepths

Halenvaneddie wrote: »

Good for them , vaccine is not worth a ****e

Data emerging from Israel and the UK illustrates you're talking through something other than your mouth.
0/ 10 read the other lads posts at least they make an effort.

plodder

ted1 wrote: »

So your only issue is the fact he had a connection with the school ?
If he called st.tiernans you’d have no issue.
If it’s a choice between two , would you not the call the one you know can deliver.

How would he know that? Unless it had been pre-arranged.

Banana Republic 1

Amirani wrote: »

That for courts to decide, not a fecking Minister.

Do you have any idea how the law works? You think Minsters can just fire and send people to jail do you?

A minister could Inform the guards but of course they’ve washed there hands of it.

steddyeddy

Amirani wrote: »

Fine, that courts can determine if that's the case and make a decision on what happens.

A Minister still can't fire an employee at a private company.

No they can't but they can refer them to the police or the appropriate medical board. I've seen it happen in the hospital where I worked. Although it wasn't a minister but another staff member acting out of concern for the public.

Personally, I think they should plaster this guy's face all over every available media. This seems to be happening at an alarming rate now and humiliation seems to be the only way to deal with it.

ted1

steddyeddy wrote: »

Ted the idea that you're now arguing for priority is laughable. As if you care whether teenagers get vaccinated before or after the more vulnerable. If the CEO of a company vaccinated their child ahead of elderly patients you would be the first in with:

What are you on about?
I’ve three kids in primary school. Should a teacher get sick the will be at home. Of course I want teachers to be vaccinated, they are in contact with kids and parents.
I want the old , sick and front line done.
Then regular adults, teenagers and kids

hynesie08

plodder wrote: »

How would he know that? Unless it had been pre-arranged.

I'd imagine knowing the operating hours of the school your children attend wouldn't be uncommon.

Banana Republic 1

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

A minister could Inform the guards but of course they’ve washed there hands of it.

'Their' ffs!

It's not a criminal offence. Simple as. He has not stolen the vaccine. That's it.

Ability to perform ones job fairly and stay within agreed contractual obligations is not a Criminal offence.

All that can happen here is

A, the beacons board decide to dismiss him or he agrees to resign. They will probably still need to pay some of his contract.

B, the government stop utilizing the beacon for vaccinations. This will only result in the vaccination programme showing down even further.

That's it guys. You as a consumer can elect to not use the beacon for a private procedure but a lot of staff there are themselves private and renting space. Best doctor or taking a stand against the CEO? I think most people morals will have evaporated at that question

ted1

ted1 wrote: »

So your only issue is the fact he had a connection with the school ?
If he called st.tiernans you’d have no issue.
If it’s a choice between two , would you not the call the one you know can deliver.

So it's only private schools who can "deliver"?

Hellrazer

Amirani wrote: »

Private companies, hospitals or otherwise, are autonomous and not controlled by a minister. They can't tell them which of their staff they should fire.

?

So does this mean that the beacon,hermitage can do whatever the f**k they like and get away with it with regards to vaccine roll out?

Im asking a genuine question by the way - I always assumed that if a private hospital wanted to operate in the state there were rules they had to follow.

Or even say in this case that they have to follow the guidelines laid out by the HSE.

It seems that this CEO can do whatever he likes and face no consequences of it other than the publics outrage.

Just doesnt seem right to me.

kippy

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

'Their' ffs!

It's not a criminal offence. Simple as. He has not stolen the vaccine. That's it.

Ability to perform ones job fairly and stay within agreed contractual obligations is not a Criminal offence.

All that can happen here is

A, the beacons board decide to dismiss him or he agrees to resign. They will probably still need to pay some of his contract.

B, the government stop utilizing the beacon for vaccinations. This will only result in the vaccination programme showing down even further.

That's it guys. You as a consumer can elect to not use the beacon for a private procedure but a lot of staff there are themselves private and renting space. Best doctor or taking a stand against the CEO? I think most people morals will have evaporated at that question

It's a case of gross misconduct and any number of other HR violations. Simple as.
Easily dealt with internally. They guy should be out of a job once due process hase been followed.

ted1

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So it's only private schools who can "deliver"?

So your issue is with a semi private school ?

If you have a choice between 2, you’ll pick the one you know. That’s human nature.

Cluedo Monopoly

Crazy stuff. Not shocked. It sounds planned too.

You'd have to wonder why the teachers didn't stop to think whether it was wrong especially if they were low risk for Covid.

There will be no accountability because (a) this is Ireland (b) these are the elite

They made a call and used them!

Good luck to them and I hope that they are all fine!

kippy

kippy wrote: »

It's a case of gross misconduct and any number of other HR violations. Simple as.
Easily dealt with internally. They guy should be out of a job once due process hase been followed.

Thank God you angrily agreed with me for the most part.

'gross misconduct' is a high bar and depends on the companies policies. I wouldn't know them. What are they? You have the company handbook handy?

bucketybuck

dulpit wrote: »

I cannot understand how anybody can defend this.

You need to understand, there is nothing, nothing, that some people will not defend when it comes to the handling of this pandemic.

If it came to light that Paul Reid was stockpiling vaccines and selling them under the table to Ukrainian gangsters you would see the same people in here defending him.

Cyrus

kippy wrote: »

It's a case of gross misconduct and any number of other HR violations. Simple as.
Easily dealt with internally. They guy should be out of a job once due process hase been followed.

its gross misconduct, simple as :rolleyes:

well there you have it folks.

iamwhoiam

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

Crazy stuff. Not shocked. It sounds planned too.

You'd have to wonder why the teachers didn't stop to think whether it was wrong especially if they were low risk for Covid.

There will be no accountability because (a) this is Ireland (b) these are the elite

And will they get the 2nd dose before others too ? Absolutely crazy stuff and anyone defending it equally shocking

ted1

ted1 wrote: »

So your issue is with a semi private school ?

If you have a choice between 2, you’ll pick the one you know. That’s human nature.

The elitism is astounding. The medication could have been given to mental health patients living in hostel accommodation or HCA's working in the area. But no, it went to a fee paying school which has a "relationship" with the CEO of the Beacon. Wonder how their child will do in the leaving!;)

HildaOgdenx

And now the Beacon Hospital has apologised.

Oh that's grand so... Not!

Brendan Bendar

ecoli3136 wrote: »

The, well-founded, assumption is that the children of person in a position to direct the supply of vaccines in this way would be in a private school.

The complaints are not targeted at those who attend private schools. They're targeted at the unfairness of those who occupy certain high level roles being able and willing, or so it would seem, to exercise their "discretion" so as to favour them or their families.

It's just unfair, and it has the clear trappings of elitist favouritism, and it undermines community spirit and societal togetherness on a wider front.

Excellent synopsis ecoli, unfortunately there is a certain coterie of folk who cannot resist using g their position to garner advantage due to their position.

It’s like the barter system for these people, you’ll ‘look after ‘ me and the implicit understanding is you will ‘deliver’ when I need something from you.

No coin ever changes hand.

I would suggest that that is what was going on here.......

Not accusing, but just suggesting.......

This has all the appearance of a pre arranged event.

Hellrazer

Hellrazer wrote: »

So does this mean that the beacon,hermitage can do whatever the f**k they like and get away with it with regards to vaccine roll out?

Im asking a genuine question by the way - I always assumed that if a private hospital wanted to operate in the state there were rules they had to follow.

Or even say in this case that they have to follow the guidelines laid out by the HSE.

It seems that this CEO can do whatever he likes and face no consequences of it other than the publics outrage.

Just doesnt seem right to me.

It's been stated a few times what can be done. So it's really your own opinion if you agree with those options or not.

No different to any private company with a public sector contract

Shelga

Some stories do not disappear within a day or two, due to the extent of the public’s anger. I really hope this is one of them and that the CEO faces real consequences, but I have no faith that that will happen.

I think so many people have just reached complete breaking point, myself included, in the last month or so. There is zero plan from the government. Life feels bleak and without hope.

So to see these vaccines being deliberately given to (presumably youngish) privileged, healthy people in a few-paying school in a different county, due to their links with the CEO, rather than the actual patients of the hospital, the Gardai, local schools or literally anyone within 1km of the hospital, is just completely sickening.

Honestly have no idea how anyone can defend it. I’m fit to explode today.

Cerco

The hospital did not have or choose to ignore a standby list. Somebody qualifying for this list may suffer as a result of not been vaccinated....they may even die. This is a public health issue.

The fact that a well published public health procedure was ignored by the hospital raises patient safety concerns.

I think it is no coincidence that this story was published on a day when there is another significant health story breaking in the media.

ted1

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The elitism is astounding. The medication could have been given to mental health patients living in hostel accommodation or HCA's working in the area. But no, it went to a fee paying school which has a "relationship" with the CEO of the Beacon. Wonder how their child will do in the leaving!;)

In less than an hour could up of you round up 20 mental health patients ?
Let’s be realistic and stop the nonsense

VinLieger

iamwhoiam wrote: »

And will they get the 2nd dose before others too ? Absolutely crazy stuff and anyone defending it equally shocking

Unfortunately they have to get the second dose now as if they don't the original dose they did receive has gone to waste

Banana Republic 1

hynesie08 wrote: »

I'd imagine knowing the operating hours of the school your children attend wouldn't be uncommon.

Nepotism strikes again in Ireland

astrofool

ted1 wrote: »

So your only issue is the fact he had a connection with the school ?
If he called st.tiernans you’d have no issue.
If it’s a choice between two , would you not the call the one you know can deliver.

They should have gone to the priority list. The explanation they put out doesn't make sense unless it was pre-arranged, which shows intent for corruption.

The CEO should resign. The HSE should bring them to court for not following the contract (if it mentions these guidelines).

"Making 1 call to get 20 people" doesn't make sense, anyone who thinks that 1 call to a school is the optimum way to get 20 people in a very tight timeline is either not very clever or being deliberately obtuse. The fact that it was the CEO's childrens school rather than another closer larger school shows that it was deliberate intent.

Cerco

Cerco wrote: »

The hospital did not have or choose to ignore a standby list. Somebody qualifying for this list may suffer as a result of not been vaccinated....they may even die. This is a public health issue.

The fact that a well published public health procedure was ignored by the hospital raises patient safety concerns.

I think it is no coincidence that this story was published on a day when there is another significant health story breaking in the media.

Hospitals are cancelling surgeries every single day of the week. That's a patient safety concern.

Should all the staff be sacked?

Folks, can we keep some perspective here please. Be angry if you want but for ****ed sake think out your desired actions a little more

Banana Republic 1

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

'Their' ffs!

It's not a criminal offence. Simple as. He has not stolen the vaccine. That's it.

Ability to perform ones job fairly and stay within agreed contractual obligations is not a Criminal offence.

All that can happen here is

A, the beacons board decide to dismiss him or he agrees to resign. They will probably still need to pay some of his contract.

B, the government stop utilizing the beacon for vaccinations. This will only result in the vaccination programme showing down even further.

That's it guys. You as a consumer can elect to not use the beacon for a private procedure but a lot of staff there are themselves private and renting space. Best doctor or taking a stand against the CEO? I think most people morals will have evaporated at that question

Nepotism strikes again in Ireland

Banana Republic 1

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

Nepotism strikes again in Ireland

You could have just said "yeah but it still sucks".

It strikes daily in many forms. When the boss hires his children to positions ahead of more qualifed options, that's nepotism. I work in an industry notorious for it so if you think I'm a fan, think again.

Still does not change the accuracy of my statement one iota.

iamwhoiam

All teachers from a Bray school phoned at 4;30 managed to be in the Beacon within an hour. Now that is some achievement , not one needed to go home or pick up kids or whatever ! WOw is all I can say .Were they lined up ready to go or what

Banana Republic 1

astrofool wrote: »

They should have gone to the priority list. The explanation they put out doesn't make sense unless it was pre-arranged, which shows intent for corruption.

The CEO should resign. The HSE should bring them to court for not following the contract (if it mentions these guidelines).

"Making 1 call to get 20 people" doesn't make sense, anyone who thinks that 1 call to a school is the optimum way to get 20 people in a very tight timeline is either not very clever or being deliberately obtuse. The fact that it was the CEO's childrens school rather than another closer larger school shows that it was deliberate intent.

For all you know they have been snooping on him for years and can now blackmail him just as we saw on prime time last night..

ted1

ted1 wrote: »

In less than an hour could up of you round up 20 mental health patients ?
Let’s be realistic and stop the nonsense

http://www.hail.ie/housing-and-development

63 different homes in SDCC area.

But again, no benefits in throwing out a few vaccines to the school your children go to as a favour. Who cares about people who would benefit from the vaccine more?

ted1

astrofool wrote: »

They should have gone to the priority list. The explanation they put out doesn't make sense unless it was pre-arranged, which shows intent for corruption.

The CEO should resign. The HSE should bring them to court for not following the contract (if it mentions these guidelines).

"Making 1 call to get 20 people" doesn't make sense, anyone who thinks that 1 call to a school is the optimum way to get 20 people in a very tight timeline is either not very clever or being deliberately obtuse. The fact that it was the CEO's childrens school rather than another closer larger school shows that it was deliberate intent.

No time for the priority list and the AZ isn’t suitable for many on it.

How does 1 call to get 20 people not make sense ?

hynesie08

iamwhoiam wrote: »

All teachers from a Bray school phoned at 4;30 managed to be in the Beacon within an hour. Now that is some achievement , not one needed to go home or pick up kids or whatever ! WOw is all I can say .

You reckon there's only 20 staff there?

EmptyTree

ted1 wrote: »

In less than an hour could up of you round up 20 mental health patients ?
Let’s be realistic and stop the nonsense

They rounded up teachers quickly enough, why is it nonsense that the same couldn't be done for mental health patients?

Plumbthedepths

HildaOgdenx wrote: »

And now the Beacon Hospital has apologised.

Oh that's grand so... Not!

Said it before better to ask for forgiveness than permission. Expect to see more of this as there are no sanctions .

Banana Republic 1

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

It strikes daily in many forms. When the boss hires his children to positions ahead of more qualifed options, that's nepotism. I work in an industry notorious for it so if you think I'm a fan, think again.

Still does not change the accuracy of my statement one iota.

I know what nepotism is. Come down off your high horse.

JimmyVik

astrofool wrote: »

There is no chance of knowing that 1 call to a school would garner 20 people unless it was pre-arranged. It also makes no sense if time was an issue as there are lots of closer schools (public and private) that could have been contacted, many with lots more staff than Gerard's have. And that's ignoring that they should have been using the priority list first anyway.

Hello.
Im looking for 20 people in one go. Can you get me them quick.
Yes, They are havent left yet. I can get them all in to you right now.
Good stuff.

plodder

hynesie08 wrote: »

I'd imagine knowing the operating hours of the school your children attend wouldn't be uncommon.

School hours don't vary that much and knowing the school hours doesn't imply that teachers can drop whatever they are doing at a moment's notice.

hynesie08

Deleted User wrote: »

http://www.hail.ie/housing-and-development

63 different homes in SDCC area.

But again, no benefits in throwing out a few vaccines to the school your children go to as a favour.

And the hospital would have the details and phone number of everyone in these houses to hand, along with the knowledge of whether or not they will be available on an hours notice?

And how do you know the people in these houses weren't in the first 180 to receive leftover vaccines?

ted1

[Deleted User] wrote: »

http://www.hail.ie/housing-and-development

63 different homes in SDCC area.

But again, no benefits in throwing out a few vaccines to the school your children go to as a favour.

You clearly have a connection, which what the beacon . did too.
From that site it’s not obvious they have 63 houses in the area. In less than an hour how do you contact the occupants and arrange transfer ?

And why would people with mental health issues be ahead of front line workers ?

TP_CM

ecoli3136 wrote: »

The, well-founded, assumption is that the children of person in a position to direct the supply of vaccines in this way would be in a private school.

The complaints are not targeted at those who attend private schools. They're targeted at the unfairness of those who occupy certain high level roles being able and willing, or so it would seem, to exercise their "discretion" so as to favour them or their families.

It's just unfair, and it has the clear trappings of elitist favouritism, and it undermines community spirit and societal togetherness on a wider front.

Yes well either way I'm delighted to see them getting lambasted for it. This was just a handful of doses so I don't think it's the biggest deal in the world. But it will stop others from doing something similar so the more angry people get about these 100 doses or whatever it was the better. It stops humans being humans and doctors left right and centre giving it to their pals and families.

Edit: Sorry I meant to quote James Brown there ^