Private school teachers prioritised for vaccinations

expectationlost

confirmation from the IT re David Begg getting it early https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/mater-hospital-chairman-received-vaccine-at-very-early-stages-of-rollout-1.4531405 and Indo https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/i-did-not-ask-for-it-david-begg-confirms-he-received-covid-jab-as-chair-of-mater-hospital-board-40284839.html

Tpcl20

Surely instead of a 71 year old getting it this thread should currently be discussing the teachers and SNAs from the leafy areas of Wicklow and South Dublin who got it in the Aviva the other day.

expectationlost

Tpcl20 wrote: »

Surely instead of a 71 year old getting it this thread should currently be discussing the teachers and SNAs from the leafy areas of Wicklow and South Dublin who got it in the Aviva the other day.

a 71 year old who got it,... what about month maybe 2 earlier then other 71 year olds

Fann Linn

Tpcl20 wrote: »

Surely instead of a 71 year old getting it this thread should currently be discussing the teachers and SNAs from the leafy areas of Wicklow and South Dublin who got it in the Aviva the other day.

Any coincidence that current and ex minister's for health are from that neck of the woods?

Tpcl20

Oh I hadn't noticed that.

Is it time to start queuing up outside our local vaccination venue and lying saying we were called to come by HSE text?

Cyrus

Tpcl20 wrote: »

Surely instead of a 71 year old getting it this thread should currently be discussing the teachers and SNAs from the leafy areas of Wicklow and South Dublin who got it in the Aviva the other day.

Yeah let’s focus on leafy areas , easier to be outraged that way .

expectationlost

one of the Davy 16 was on the Mater board did he get the vaccine before he quit in March? https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ex-davy-chief-quits-dublin-hospital-board-40193740.html Begg said not everyone on the board got it... https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/mater-hospitals-boardoffered-covid-vaccinesdelivered-for-frontline-staff-40286501.html

JDD

expectationlost wrote: »

one of the Davy 16 was on the Mater board did he get the vaccine before he quit in March? https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ex-davy-chief-quits-dublin-hospital-board-40193740.html Begg said not everyone on the board got it... https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/mater-hospitals-boardoffered-covid-vaccinesdelivered-for-frontline-staff-40286501.html

Ha! I made the connection in a previous post that the vaccination of St Gerard's teachers was a symptom of a wider problem in Irish society - that a certain class of people think the rules do not apply to them, and you'll get away with most things with either a wink and nudge or by getting one of the big law firms to represent you, similar to the behaviour in the Davys case.

I didn't expect there to be such an obvious crossover between the two situations so soon.

expectationlost

sunbeam house staff now https://extra.ie/2021/04/11/news/irish-news/told-to-pose-as-frontline-workers-on-hse-portal-100-staff-at-disability-charity-got-vaccines-before-clients

keoclassic

Princess Calla wrote: »

To be honest I'm not surprised at people with direct links skipping the queue, it's not right, there's always been a "say nothing/keep it to yourself" culture in Ireland when someone is getting a "freebie"

However still doesn't explain this situation. I like the teachers linked to me by the same links these teachers are linked to the ceo but I wouldn't be putting my job on the line for them. So the question still remains why was this school chosen and why these 20 teachers.

Of all the people, family /friends you might put your job on the line for, why on earth would you pick teachers....no offense to any teachers reading:)

My question here would be what year group his kids are in? If it's that one of his kids is sitting the leaving cert this year and receiving calculated grades from these teachers then that's the integrity of the grades given brought in disrepute.

Brendan Bendar

No white smoke here yet.

The auld stove pipe is nicely plugged.........

ForestFire

expectationlost wrote: »

sunbeam house staff now https://extra.ie/2021/04/11/news/irish-news/told-to-pose-as-frontline-workers-on-hse-portal-100-staff-at-disability-charity-got-vaccines-before-clients

To be honest, at this stage they should all be just f......


....... I mean fully investigated as per company policy, possible suspended without pay until it can be determined the correct procedures to terminate their employment......

Fian

I wonder how those teachers under 60 who received this vaccine now feel about getting a second dose of Astrazenica rather than being scheduled to receive a different vaccine along with others in that age cohort.

This is not intended to come across as vindictive or gloating but it does occur to me that if the provision of vaccines was expected to generate gratitude it probably backfired once this went so public, and perhaps doubly so now.

expectationlost

Irish Wheelchair association offered vaccines https://extra.ie/2021/04/12/featured/top-brass-charity-offered-vaccines including those working from home. CEO refuses to say if she got vaccinated.

Brendan Bendar

I’m surprised people are surprised...... I really am......


Pat never misses a chance to game the system.........

steddyeddy

expectationlost wrote: »

Irish Wheelchair association offered vaccines https://extra.ie/2021/04/12/featured/top-brass-charity-offered-vaccines including those working from home. CEO refuses to say if she got vaccinated.

I initially read that thinking that there was no problem. They're wheelchair users getting vaccinated so what's the problem?

Well on closer inspection the problem reveals itself:

An IWA whistleblower spoke out against the ‘rotten, disgusting’ practice whereby the vulnerable people who the charity is supposed to serve are being skipped in the queue for the jab by staff who aren’t even on the frontline.

Wheelchair bound patients were being skipped over in favour of non-frontline staff. We have a disgusting problem with nepotism and cronyism in Ireland. Previously in the HSE I seen it in terms of people getting jobs based on who they know. Now we know that it goes as far as bypassing cancer patients and wheelchair users in favour of non-frontline staff.

We're suffering through a pandemic that has revealed a problem endemic to Ireland.

khalessi

steddyeddy wrote: »

I initially read that thinking that there was no problem. They're wheelchair users getting vaccinated so what's the problem?

Well on closer inspection the problem reveals itself:



Wheelchair bound patients were being skipped over in favour of non-frontline staff. We have a disgusting problem with nepotism and cronyism in Ireland. Previously in the HSE I seen it in terms of people getting jobs based on who they know. Now we know that it goes as far as bypassing cancer patients and wheelchair users in favour of non-frontline staff.

We're suffering through a pandemic that has revealed a problem endemic to Ireland.

I do think that these were known about a few weeks ago but were leaked in a particular order. Teachers first as they are used to being attacked by public, stir the public outrage then teachers get lambasted by public, then public exhausted and leask the rest, less outrage as public come to expect it.

No major outrage about people wfh getting vaccine over people with special needs or wheelchair users. At least teachers and SNAs are public facing in small spaces but Bob wfh since March getting vaccinated is nuts. Especially SNAs who are carrying out intimate needs of pupil such as checking bloods etc.

Cyrus

khalessi wrote: »

I do think that these were known about a few weeks ago but were leaked in a particular order. Teachers first as they are used to being attacked by public, stir the public outrage then teachers get lambasted by public, then public exhausted and leask the rest, less outrage as public come to expect it.

No major outrage about people wfh getting vaccine over people with special needs or wheelchair users. At least teachers and SNAs are public facing in small spaces but Bob wfh since March getting vaccinated is nuts. Especially SNAs who are carrying out intimate needs of pupil such as checking bloods etc.

they werent teachers in a posh school so the level of interest is less :rolleyes:

khalessi

Cyrus wrote: »

they werent teachers in a posh school so the level of interest is less :rolleyes:

Which is bizarre and just speaks loads about public bias

Cyrus

khalessi wrote: »

Which is bizarre and just speaks loads about public bias

totally agree

Lillyfae

steddyeddy wrote: »

I initially read that thinking that there was no problem. They're wheelchair users getting vaccinated so what's the problem?

Well on closer inspection the problem reveals itself:



Wheelchair bound patients were being skipped over in favour of non-frontline staff. We have a disgusting problem with nepotism and cronyism in Ireland. Previously in the HSE I seen it in terms of people getting jobs based on who they know. Now we know that it goes as far as bypassing cancer patients and wheelchair users in favour of non-frontline staff.

We're suffering through a pandemic that has revealed a problem endemic to Ireland.

I read it as some are front line, some would be front line except that services are stopped at the moment because of the pandemic. They are healthcare workers and should be in line anyway. Once services resume they will be front line. Until they are vaccinated services can't resume.

Cyrus wrote: »

they werent teachers in a posh school so the level of interest is less :rolleyes:

khalessi wrote: »

Which is bizarre and just speaks loads about public bias

Public bias against the CEO of a private hospital calling up his childrens school, not even in the vicinity of the hospital to vaccinate a select few teachers ahead of vulnerable people in the hospital??? Oh ya, that's completely bizarre.

ThewhiteJesus

so now all the faux outrage hype has passed i presume the ceo kept his job and the school is fully booked for next year ?

Cal4567

expectationlost wrote: »

sunbeam house staff now https://extra.ie/2021/04/11/news/irish-news/told-to-pose-as-frontline-workers-on-hse-portal-100-staff-at-disability-charity-got-vaccines-before-clients

Joe Lynch, Sunbeam’s CEO and a former Fianna Fáil candidate

Of course he was an FF candidate, although probably no need for us to know that detail, except to p"ss us off even further

steddyeddy

Cyrus wrote: »

they werent teachers in a posh school so the level of interest is less :rolleyes:

Yes of course. That is completely obvious. There's considerable debate about the fairness of private schools. We know for fact that private school students are much more likely to send students to university. However, those same students are much less likely to do as well as state school students when they get to university. This is a well documented unfairness so it's unsurprising that this gets attention when they get a head start in medical treatment as well as education.

Cyrus

steddyeddy wrote: »

Yes of course. That is completely obvious. There's considerable debate about the fairness of private schools. We know for fact that private school students are much more likely to send students to university. However, those same students are much less likely to do as well as state school students when they get to university. This is a well documented unfairness so it's unsurprising that this gets attention when they get a head start in medical treatment as well as education.

Why are you conflating the teachers and students

steddyeddy

Cyrus wrote: »

Why are you conflating the teachers and students

I'm not. However, it was the student's relatively well off parent that arranged these teachers to get vaccines ahead of cancer patients. I'm stating that the fact that this is a private school is newsworthy.

First Up

steddyeddy wrote: »

I'm not. However, it was the student's relatively well off parent that arranged these teachers to get vaccines ahead of cancer patients. I'm stating that the fact that this is a private school is newsworthy.

The technical term is begrudgery.

steddyeddy

First Up wrote: »

The technical term is begrudgery.

Actually the technical term is the psychology of unfairness. Begrudgery is the very untechnical term used by those have an emotional reaction to unfairness being questioned and can't think of an intelligent rebuttal.

Although I'm sure this doesn't apply to you. The study I cited states that private schools let in less able people than state schools do. I don't think it's begredgery to hope that the most intelligent students get in.

Cyrus

steddyeddy wrote: »

Actually the technical term is the psychology of unfairness. Begrudgery is the very untechnical term used by those have an emotional reaction to unfairness being questioned and can't think of an intelligent rebuttal.

Although I'm sure this doesn't apply to you. The study I cited states that private schools let in less able people than state schools do. I don't think it's begredgery to hope that the most intelligent students get in.

the study is from the uk is it not?

and i assume no matter how intelligent you are, if you cant afford a private school you wont be going there.

First Up

steddyeddy wrote:

Actually the technical term is the psychology of unfairness. Begrudgery is the very untechnical term used by those have an emotional reaction to unfairness being questioned and can't think of an intelligent rebuttal.

No, begrudgery is the term for those who would prefer if the vaccines had been put in the bin rather than given to teachers at a school they can't afford.

steddyeddy

First Up wrote: »

No, begrudgery is the term for those who would prefer if the vaccines had been put in the bin rather than given to teachers at a school they can't afford.

No F. The term for that is stupidity. As there's no suggestion the options were bin vs give to teachers in your kids school. We know for a fact that there were people living closer to the school e.g cancer patients.

First Up

steddyeddy wrote:

No F. The term for that is stupidity. As there's no suggestion the options were bin vs give to teachers in your kids school. We know for a fact that there were people living closer to the school e.g cancer patients.

I knew the cancer patients would be wheeled out pretty soon.

It boils down to this; if the only options left - however they came about - were give it to teachers or put it in the bin, which would you choose?

steddyeddy

First Up wrote: »

I knew the cancer patients would be wheeled out pretty soon.

Yep because they were passed over in favour of people with connection's to the CEO's kids. We can't leave out facts that make you uncomfortable.

It boils down to this;

In your head and only your head. The facts say otherwise.

if the only options left - however they came about - were give it to teachers or put it in the bin, which would you choose?

If there was two choices; bin it or give it to teachers then obviously I would give it to teachers. This wasn't the situation here.

First Up

steddyeddy wrote:

If there was two choices; bin it or give it to teachers then obviously I would give it to teachers. This wasn't the situation here.

Just to be clear - the teachers in St Gerard's?

steddyeddy

First Up wrote: »

Just to be clear - the teachers in St Gerard's?

If they were the only choices between binning and not binning then yes of course.

Would you choose to vaccinate them over cancer patients?

First Up

steddyeddy wrote:

If they were the only choices between binning and not binning then yes of course.

Good.

steddyeddy wrote:

Would you choose to vaccinate them over cancer patients?

Assuming there was that choice in the circumstances and time available, of course not.

Patrick2010

First Up wrote: »

Good.



Assuming there was that choice in the circumstances and time available, of course not.

Would have thought if time was an issue patients in the hospital rather than rounding up teachers in the CEOs kids school 12 Km away would have been the obvious choice?.
Anyway, how did the CEOs kids school become the Beacons first backup choice?

First Up

Patrick2010 wrote:

Would have thought if time was an issue patients in the hospital rather than rounding up teachers in the CEOs kids school 12 Km away would have been the obvious choice?. Anyway, how did the CEOs kids school become the Beacons first backup choice?

We've been around the block a few times on this but the people who should answer that question are the HSE.
They were supposed to arrange for people to present at the Beacon for vaccination. Did that 1,269 include cancer patients?

And when 200 of them didn't turn up, did the HSE include cancer patients among those yhey found to replace them?

And if they were giving priority to cancer patients, how come they only found 180?

steddyeddy

First Up wrote: »

We've been around the block a few times on this but the people who should answer that question are the HSE.
They were supposed to arrange for people to present at the Beacon for vaccination. Did that 1,269 include cancer patients?

And when 200 of them didn't turn up, did the HSE include cancer patients among those yhey found to replace them?

And if they were giving priority to cancer patients, how come they only found 180?

The Beacon board itself stated that the CEO's kid's school was not in line with guidance. Have you got information they don't?

First Up

steddyeddy wrote:

The Beacon board itself stated that the CEO's kid's school was not in line with guidance. Have you got information they don't?

Nobody disputes it was not in line with guidance. What we would all like to know is how the system created a situation where that looked the best way to use the 20 vaccines that the HSE were unable to find a use for.

astrofool

First Up wrote: »

Nobody disputes it was not in line with guidance. What we would all like to know is how the system created a situation where that looked the best way to use the 20 vaccines that the HSE were unable to find a use for.

It didn't, the CEO had rang them earlier in the principal early in the day, and told them to be ready, the junior principal then rang the senior principal to decide which teachers to ring to get it, those who got it didn't tell their colleagues. The CEO had all day to find people on the priority group, but planned for any excess to go to the school. It's corruption 101 on both the CEO, school and Beacon's part.

First Up

astrofool wrote:

It didn't, the CEO had rang them earlier in the principal early in the day, and told them to be ready, the junior principal then rang the senior principal to decide which teachers to ring to get it, those who got it didn't tell their colleagues. The CEO had all day to find people on the priority group, but planned for any excess to go to the school. It's corruption 101 on both the CEO, school and Beacon's part.

I hope you have passed your evidence of all this to Eugene McCague. It should make his investigation much quicker

steddyeddy

First Up wrote: »

Nobody disputes it was not in line with guidance. What we would all like to know is how the system created a situation where that looked the best way to use the 20 vaccines that the HSE were unable to find a use for.

But where are you getting that information from? Who is saying that?

steddyeddy

First Up wrote: »

I hope you have passed your evidence of all this to Eugene McCague. It should make his investigation much quicker

But evidence of what? You're the one making the claims to the contrary here. You're making statements that aren't being reported like "it looked like the best choice at the time".

First Up

steddyeddy wrote:

But where are you getting that information from? Who is saying that?

That sequence of events has been reported in the media, drawn from what the Beacon, St Gerards and the HSE have said.

I summarised it earlier in this thread, including the questions that remain unanswered but Eugene McCague is investigating it all so let's see what he finds.

steddyeddy

First Up wrote: »

That sequence of events has been reported in the media, drawn from what the Beacon, St Gerards and the HSE have said.

I summarised it earlier in this thread, including the questions that remain unanswered but Eugene McCague is investigating it all so let's see what he finds.

No it hasn't. You're contradicting yourself every second post. Earlier on the thread you postulated the the teachers might have secret medical reasons for being vaccinated.

First Up

steddyeddy wrote:

But evidence of what? You're the one making the claims to the contrary here. You're making statements that aren't being reported like "it looked like the best choice at the time".

The HSE has admitted that they left the Beacon with surplus vaccines. What the Beacon did with them (and why) will emerge from McCague's investigation.

Astrofool alleges a conspiracy and has cited a series of calls from the Beacon to the school that he seems to know about. If he has evidence, I hope he knows what to do with it.

First Up

steddyeddy wrote:

But evidence of what? You're the one making the claims to the contrary here. You're making statements that aren't being reported like "it looked like the best choice at the time".

The HSE has admitted that they left the Beacon with surplus vaccines. What the Beacon did with them (and why) will emerge from McCague's investigation.

Astrofool alleges a conspiracy and has cited a series of calls from the Beacon to the school that he seems to know about. If he has evidence, I hope he knows what to do with it.

First Up

steddyeddy wrote:

No it hasn't. You're contradicting yourself every second post. Earlier on the thread you postulated the the teachers might have secret medical reasons for being vaccinated.

I did? That's news to me.

astrofool

First Up wrote: »

The HSE has admitted that they left the Beacon with surplus vaccines. What the Beacon did with them (and why) will emerge from McCague's investigation.

Astrofool alleges a conspiracy and has cited a series of calls from the Beacon to the school that he seems to know about. If he has evidence, I hope he knows what to do with it.

They cover the series of calls to the principal here:
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/beacon-hospital-chief-said-it-had-hse-permission-letter-from-st-gerards-school-in-fallout-over-vaccination-of-teachers-40256988.html

Hopefully the independent sent on their sources...