Rainbow Cup 2021

Akrasia

awec wrote: »

Who?

he'll come back eventually, to the same mixed emotions of the munster zebo fan

thomond2006

It's the Sharks or the Bulls in the final then. Looking at the fixtures, it's been mostly competitive in the SA section.

irelandrover

TMO in the zebre game.
"Both captains have now lost their challenge, thank god"
I don't think refs like this captains challenge

Paul Smeenus

The Ulster game illustrated the fundamental flaw with the Captain's Challenge.

Both Ulster and Edinburgh used theirs in the run up to Edinburgh's last try. Edinburgh's challenge, about a tackle in the air from the kick-off, was passed over because they'd scored a try.

If a penalty had been awarded for the high tackle on Lowry, meaning that the try had to be chalked off, he'd have had to look at the tackle on the Edinburgh player. If it had been a tackle in the air, what would he have done? Two penalties, one against each team. The second wouldn't have happened if the first had been awarded initially, but it wasn't, so it did happen.

Whitehouse side-stepped the whole issue by not awarding a penalty for the high tackle on Lowry, meaning Edinburgh didn't care about theirs.

A more cynical man than myself might posit that that's why he was so keen to let the Edinburgh player off scott-free, to avoid that whole car crash.

Burkie1203

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

The Ulster game illustrated the fundamental flaw with the Captain's Challenge.

Both Ulster and Edinburgh used theirs in the run up to Edinburgh's last try. Edinburgh's challenge, about a tackle in the air from the kick-off, was passed over because they'd scored a try.

If a penalty had been awarded for the high tackle on Lowry, meaning that the try had to be chalked off, he'd have had to look at the tackle on the Edinburgh player. If it had been a tackle in the air, what would he have done? Two penalties, one against each team. The second wouldn't have happened if the first had been awarded initially, but it wasn't, so it did happen.

Whitehouse side-stepped the whole issue by not awarding a penalty for the high tackle on Lowry, meaning Edinburgh didn't care about theirs.

A more cynical man than myself might posit that that's why he was so keen to let the Edinburgh player off scott-free, to avoid that whole car crash.

Which ever act of foul play was deemed more serious would take precedence

Paul Smeenus

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Which ever act of foul play was deemed more serious would take precedence

Cheers. It was clear Whitehouse himself had no idea.

Bazzo

Did I see a remote control toy car delivering the kicking tee to the field in Bulls v Stormers?

Buer

Erasmus has confirmed no Springbok players shall feature in the Rainbow Cup final.

Looks like we can expect more of the same in how the SA teams treat the ProXX tournament. For them to skip the final of their opening involvement does not bode well and comoletely undermines the game.

If the Sharks manage to get to the final, they'll be down 9 players. The Bulls will be without 4 (5 if they add Coetzee which they've suggested the might).

Blut2

I'd hope that this is just an exceptional year with the final so close to the Lions tour. And that in future years, particularly if there are Champions Cup qualifying positions to play for, it won't happen.

But it isn't a great precedent to set alright.

Sabre0001

Irish teams have frequently not put out first choice players, including in inter-county derbies, in the Pro__ over the years.

Since the Rainbow Cup's inception, people have been calling it a joke of a tournament and saying that it doesn't matter. Some fans have criticised the use of front liners by their teams in the competition, especially now that Porter will miss out on Lions because of injury. Many have pointed to the fact that Treviso are top and got to play Zebre twice as an undermining factor in how relevant the tournament is.

So should we be that surprised that some of the SH feel the same and are prioritising having players fit for Lions encounters?


(I, as a Munster fan will feel the tournament is the most valuable to win if we top the league and go on to lift a trophy!)

Cookiemunster

Is a farcical tournament about to get even more farcical?
https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1402262033064730643

TomsOnTheRoof

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Is a farcical tournament about to get even more farcical?
https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1402262033064730643

Well that's ****e. Even if the game does go ahead now its hard to see Ospreys getting a win with all this disruption, especially considering they have nothing to play for.

Eod100

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Is a farcical tournament about to get even more farcical?
https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1402262033064730643

Not a big fan of the competition but not sure it's any more farcical than when Champions Cup games had to be called off. When there were no extra weekends for replaying game it was always on the cards that covid cases could decide winner. Think Benetton would have preferred to qualify by winning naturally but not sure other teams would have a huge amount to complain about tbh.

PMC83

Agreed. People seem to be bagging it, but theres been some really enjoyable games so far

Tomtom364

Give zebre 5 points and have Treviso play Munster for the final round instead. Sorted

Cookiemunster

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1402552740287553536

thomond2006

https://benettonrugby.it/il-benetton-rugby-si-qualifica-per-la-storica-finale-di-guinness-pro14-rainbow-cup/

Benetton confirm they have qualified for the final.

Cookiemunster

Can't disagree with Cian here.
https://twitter.com/CianTracey1/status/1402554404671197187

On the one hand it's cool to see an Italian team in a final but on the other the southern hemisphere talking heads will go off when they most likely get butchered.

Akrasia

Well that sucks
Benetton get through to a final by beating 3 teams
Every game this weekend is now a total dead rubber

Caranica

Joke of a competition

bluedex

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Can't disagree with Cian here.
https://twitter.com/CianTracey1/status/1402554404671197187

Yes but Munster effectively got two walkovers against Ulster and Leinster and were going to play to play Zebre too.. so it's just a lot of moaning.

UAEguy2020

Mockery.

Clegg

Should just get rid of Van Graan at this stage. Steamrolled in the Pro 12 final and couldn't even make the final of a tournament Leinster didn't prioritise.

OldRio

A fitting end to this part of the 'Competition'

salmocab

OldRio wrote: »

A fitting end to this part of the 'Competition'

A nonsense end to a nonsense competition

mun1

Best of luck to Benetton in the final .

crisco10

No offense to Benetton, but it's a bit of a joke that a team that won zero games in the "regular season" are now in the final of this tournament. It sums up the farce that it is. Especially when you consider that Ulster won 14 out of 16 games in the regular season and didn't even get a knockout match.

irelandrover

crisco10 wrote: »

No offense to Benetton, but it's a bit of a joke that a team that won zero games in the "regular season" are now in the final of this tournament. It sums up the farce that it is. Especially when you consider that Ulster won 14 out of 16 games in the regular season and didn't even get a knockout match.

But they won 4 out of 4 played in this competition.

Munster and Benneton both played connacht and Zebre, munster lost to connacht and Benneton didn't. That's why benneton are in the final.

crisco10

irelandrover wrote: »

But they won 4 out of 4 played in this competition.

Munster and Benneton both played connacht and Zebre, munster lost to connacht and Benneton didn't. That's why benneton are in the final.

Yeah, I get that. I understand how this competition worked, and also why I didn't mention that Benetton played Zebre twice or a match got COVID'ed in their favour. Them's the breaks in this tournament.

But the reality is the primary league that is supposed to measure the teams against each other was cut short to accommodate this tournament (and the South African teams). And the way it's worked out, has just ended up rewarding short term form in May at the expense of the performance over the rest of the season. I just think that's a bit crazy.

Sabre0001

Football Rugby is a simple game. Twenty-twoThirty men chase a ball for 90 80 minutes and at the end, the Germans Leinster always win.

Would that much have changed if the season had played out in full?

crisco10

Sabre0001 wrote: »

Would that much have changed if the season had played out in full?

Anything is possible in knockout rugby...who would have seen Ulster beating Munster in Thomond in 2012?

...Or Racing losing to Bordeaux this year?

...Or Scarlets beating both Munster and Leinster in Dublin in 2017?

PTH2009

Farce of a competition but fair play to Bennetton. Sadly can't see them winning it though even with home advantage

Munster have themselves to blame, we should of beaten Connacht

PMC83

PTH2009 wrote: »

Farce of a competition but fair play to Bennetton. Sadly can't see them winning it though even with home advantage

Munster have themselves to blame, we should of beaten Connacht

No they shouldn't have. They were outplayed in every facet that day. Theres a bit of narrative that 'it was theirs to lose' but in reality they played one good game again Leinster at the start, and were fairly meh there after. Similarly Leinster weren't up to much for the bulk of their games after a hammering at the start. Treviso have been the most consistant and frankly, entertaining to watch. I hope they go all the way.

thomond2006

Worth saying again: This farce of a competition is paying the provinces EUR 500,000 each from the coffers of the South Africans. That money pays for quite a few contract extensions that would have caused much more consternation had they not been completed.

It also gave an opportunity for teams like Benetton and Glasgow to reset after it was clear their Pro14 season was over after 5-6 games.

Burkie1203

crisco10 wrote: »

No offense to Benetton, but it's a bit of a joke that a team that won zero games in the "regular season" are now in the final of this tournament. It sums up the farce that it is. Especially when you consider that Ulster won 14 out of 16 games in the regular season and didn't even get a knockout match.

The regular season was over. This was everyone starting from scratch.

thomond2006

thomond2006 wrote: »

Worth saying again: This farce of a competition is paying the provinces EUR 500,000 each from the coffers of the South Africans. That money pays for quite a few contract extensions that would have caused much more consternation had they not been completed.

It also gave an opportunity for teams like Benetton and Glasgow to reset after it was clear their Pro14 season was over after 5-6 games.

Strange, I wouldn't have thought SA rugby wasn't flush with cash

Eod100

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Strange, I wouldn't have thought SA rugby wasn't flush with cash

Think speculation was that it might be for access to Champions Cup but not sure where that's at with Rainbow Cup format.

Cookiemunster

Deleted User wrote: »

Strange, I wouldn't have thought SA rugby wasn't flush with cash

It's a country of 60m people. That's means a very large TV audience and a much larger payments for sports rights. That's where the money's coming from.

aloooof

PMC83 wrote: »

No they shouldn't have. They were outplayed in every facet that day. Theres a bit of narrative that 'it was theirs to lose' but in reality they played one good game again Leinster at the start, and were fairly meh there after. Similarly Leinster weren't up to much for the bulk of their games after a hammering at the start. Treviso have been the most consistant and frankly, entertaining to watch. I hope they go all the way.

Not entirely true. Munster were excellent against a decent Ulster team, iirc. That’s a large part of why the mistakes against Connacht were so disappointing, off the back of it.

AdamD

thomond2006 wrote: »

Worth saying again: This farce of a competition is paying the provinces EUR 500,000 each from the coffers of the South Africans. That money pays for quite a few contract extensions that would have caused much more consternation had they not been completed.

It also gave an opportunity for teams like Benetton and Glasgow to reset after it was clear their Pro14 season was over after 5-6 games.

Funnily enough most of the teams have been far closer to full strength during this tournament than the regular season too

Burkie1203

AdamD wrote: »

Funnily enough most of the teams have been far closer to full strength during this tournament than the regular season too

It helps that there was no international window going on

phog

thomond2006 wrote: »

Worth saying again: This farce of a competition is paying the provinces EUR 500,000 each from the coffers of the South Africans. That money pays for quite a few contract extensions that would have caused much more consternation had they not been completed.

It also gave an opportunity for teams like Benetton and Glasgow to reset after it was clear their Pro14 season was over after 5-6 games.

This 100%

Fans can have any view they like of any competition but in a year where TV money was the main source of revenue for clubs the Rainbow Cup was manna from heaven for them. You can see why the respective Unions cut the League short to allow the SA teams into the new competition.

This is a win win for the clubs.

bluedex

aloooof wrote: »

Not entirely true. Munster were excellent against a decent Ulster team, iirc. That’s a large part of why the mistakes against Connacht were so disappointing, off the back of it.

Ulster had a pack of Warwick, Andrew, O'Toole; O'Connor, Henderson; Murphy Rea, MacCann. They had Lowry at 10 and an out of form Mathewson at 9, McIlroy and Little on the wings. So, not a great lineup. Addison got a red in the first half.
Put all that together with an away game against a full strength Munster team and nothing to play for, in all likelihood, and you would completely expect the resulting scoreline. The Connacht game was an accident waiting to happen.

Jerry Attrick

Akrasia wrote: »

Well that sucks
Benetton get through to a final by beating 3 teams

And if Leinster had beaten La Rochelle, then they'd have got through to the Champions' Cup Final by beating 3 teams on the pitch (and one in the committee room!).

bluedex

Jerry Attrick wrote: »

And if Leinster had beaten La Rochelle, then they'd have got through to the Champions' Cup Final by beating 3 teams.

Pedant alert:
4 actually

But, totally agree, your point still stands. It's been a crazy season and a half, hopefully normality returns next season. It's just been good having sport and rugby to watch!

molloyjh

thomond2006 wrote: »

Worth saying again: This farce of a competition is paying the provinces EUR 500,000 each from the coffers of the South Africans. That money pays for quite a few contract extensions that would have caused much more consternation had they not been completed.

It also gave an opportunity for teams like Benetton and Glasgow to reset after it was clear their Pro14 season was over after 5-6 games.

Yep. I've had absolutely zero interest in the Rainbow Cup. Couldn't care less about it. But the reasons for its existance are clear and can't be argued with. This season was always going to be a mess anyway and the league had become a complete farce too, so it's not like the alternative (which would have provided far less money) would have been any better. Everyone needs that money badly and we'll all be happier for it, even if we don't realise it, come next season.

errlloyd

Also - Northern Italy has had a pretty **** few 18 months or so. And Bennetton are a good bunch of lads.

This whole thing is probably an inexpensive way for the blazers in Pro14 HQ to learn about the perils of unbalanced conferences. It will be a bit embarrassing for the first proper NH v SH Super Franchise game to be an absolutely hammering - but we used to smash the kings week in week out for fun too.

Burkie1203

errlloyd wrote: »

Also - Northern Italy has had a pretty **** few 18 months or so. And Bennetton are a good bunch of lads.

This whole thing is probably an inexpensive way for the blazers in Pro14 HQ to learn about the perils of unbalanced conferences. It will be a bit embarrassing for the first proper NH v SH Super Franchise game to be an absolutely hammering - but we used to smash the kings week in week out for fun too.

Whichever SA side makes it won't have their Springboks. Think this would balance it out. Can see it being a tight game

VayNiice

I wonder would the same people be calling it a farce of a competition if Munster had made it to the final?

I'm delighted for the Italians. You can only play what's in front of you so they deserve to be in this final.