Full tank vs frequent visits to petrol station

TheChizler

I'm going 6 months between fills these days so fuel going stale is actually something to worry about, not a few cents' worth lost through evaporation.

McGaggs

McGaggs wrote: »

My parents looked into this in the 80s, on a diesel Peugeot. They drove something like Sligo to Dublin only putting in a bit of fuel at each stop, and then on the way back brimmed it. No decent roads back then, don't was a long journey. Not filling it was actually cheaper, but they decided they'd rather have a slightly higher cost than stopping more often.

They drove in to the prevaling wind on the way back in a car which had the aerodynamics of a brick.

Bass Reeves

CoBo55 wrote: »

Modern petrol cars don't allow petrol fumes into the atmosphere, the fumes are contained in a charcoal cannister and burned by the engine.

The fumes come out of the tank

Bass Reeves

Larbre34 wrote: »

Fuel is heavy. Why would you carry more of it around than absolutely necessary? All it does its increase its own consumption.

20 quid on a typical Irish diesel is good for 300-350 kms, loads.

Fuel weight is negligible in the overall weight of the car and passengers

McCrack

FrankC21 wrote: »

Hi,

One of my mate at work - a big car enthusiast - gave me an advice against puttin €20 each time I go to the petrol station, he said that I should fill up the tank up to the brim. I usually put €20 and when it nearly gone put another €20, I kinda think I will save money this way.

His reason is that if I do not do this, I keep releasing the built up/gas pressure each time I visit the petrol station and that pressure/gas is the actual diesel i paid for, evaporating out into the air.

Is that an actual fact? He recently change his car from 2007 petrol RAV4 AWD to a nissan 1.5 dci deisel and a full tank will last him 2-3weeks.

The threads you start must take a lot of thinking out

maestroamado

colm_mcm wrote: »

The shape of the fuel tank is a factor too. They’re often wider at the top.

...
I really meant as a joke.... point being that if we can afford to fill the tank we are not really ever looking at the guage

almostover

WacoKid wrote: »

I always take the approach:

1. Don't continually run on low fuel as you are dragging the dirt from the bottom of the tank through the system.
2. Let the tank run somewhat low before refueling so you are not keeping old fuel in the tank. Constantly filling up from 1/2 to full means there is fuel there that is never getting burned off, or a least taking a long time to do so.

The fuel in the tank gets well mixed going over speed ramps, crashing into potholes and various other such depressions on Irish roads. The old fuel gets well mixed in.

Larbre34

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Fuel weight is negligible in the overall weight of the car and passengers

70 litres of diesel is 60 kgs. Or the size of a decent sized wife. That's not negligible.

punisher5112

Op a match and jet fuel is the only way to do it.

Buddy Bubs

For most people the amount of fuel you put in depends on how much cash you're willing to part with in one go. I think all this stuff about weight saving and fuel economy is to justify only parting with 20 euro or so at a time, or whatever will do you a week.
When I was in college driving my Peugeot 206 I used to put a tenner in at a time. When I worked in my 20s and drove gas guzzlers I had to up this to 20s and 30s or I'd be empty ever few days.
When I earned more money I'd go 40 or 50 euro which was about half a tank.
Now that I've a fuel card I brim it and get every last drop in that I could, using about a tank a month now, 65 litres.
All to do with affordability

maestroamado

Larbre34 wrote: »

70 litres of diesel is 60 kgs. Or the size of a decent sized wife. That's not negligible.

there must be a big difference between water and diesel.
1 litre of water = i Kilo = 10x10x10....

Whocare

Know man who is always running around with tank nearly empty the reasoning for it he running on green diesel and if he ever get dipped he will say he out of diesel just put few litres to get to petrol station .he said he will still get fine but look better than running around with full tank of it

punisher5112

Whocare wrote: »

Know man who is always running around with tank nearly empty the reasoning for it he running on green diesel and if he ever get dipped he will say he out of diesel just put few litres to get to petrol station .he said he will still get fine but look better than running around with full tank of it

My brain hurts.....

CoBo55

Bass Reeves wrote: »

The fumes come out of the tank

Not on modern cars it's not allowed anymore. The Americans started clamping down on fuel vapour venting directly into the atmosphere in the 70's.

antodeco

One of my car's doesn't have a working fuel gauge so I fill up every 160kms!

Del2005

Whocare wrote: »

Know man who is always running around with tank nearly empty the reasoning for it he running on green diesel and if he ever get dipped he will say he out of diesel just put few litres to get to petrol station .he said he will still get fine but look better than running around with full tank of it

The fine is for using marked gas oil. The quantity is irrelevant, once the marker is detected you get hit with the fine, its the amount of times that you are caught that counts.

FileNotFound

Filling full at a cheap pumps will actually save you cash in the long run.

Otherwise more weight may mean more consumption.

All pennies talk really.

Odyssey 2005

WOW.

vintagevrs

Jesus I'm annoyed I spent a few minutes reading some of this....

Tell him to fold in his mirrors, put his tyres up to 40psi, turn off the AC, turn off the radio, make sure the boot is empty and always, always take a big shíte before going on a journey. Well that's what I do and so far over the last 15 years I'm up 4 euros.

Larbre34

Larbre34 wrote: »

Fuel is heavy. Why would you carry more of it around than absolutely necessary? All it does its increase its own consumption.

20 quid on a typical Irish diesel is good for 300-350 kms, loads.

57+mpg is typical?
Using your 300km, €20 & €1.355/litre.

lausp

Some saying fuel is heavy and shouldn't be carrying around more than you need? In reality filling up might only be 30kg more than messing around putting in 20 euro a time.

Your car is most likely 1.5 tonnes. That "extra" 30kg is nothing. What you do gain filling up is not having to go to the petrol station every week messing around with fuel and paying. If you pay by card doing this you are most likely paying more in bank charges than you'd gain from any perceived savings by not carrying that insignificant weight around.

Not to mention how much you value your own time and stopping and starting the car extra times, maybe using the gloves at the petrol station etc.

Some people can't afford to fill up which is fair enough but I suspect others are just a bit tight and are the same types that would put off servicing or buy the cheapest tyres.

You would actually save money on fuel worrying about maintaining the car properly and using better driving techniques such as smooth acceleration, anticipating stops and braking gently.

AndyBoBandy

Leonard Hofstadter wrote: »

Life's too short to be spending lots of time at petrol stations re-filling a car all the time. This is one of the reasons I don't like EVs, even the ones with decent range still need at least half an hour to recharge when low on battery.

I drive an EV, and in the 54 weeks I’ve owned it (24,500km driven), I’ve needed to charge it mid journey away from home on 2 separate journeys. The 2nd of which was about 6 weeks ago when I did a 686km trip in 1 day, and made 4 (fast) charging stops (though 3 would have sufficed), I was glad of the stops on each occasion as it allowed me to have toilet/snack breaks, as well as catch up on work/emails etc..... 1 of the stops I wouldn’t have needed to charge, but as I was stopping for a break anyway, and a charger was available, took the opportunity get some charge (the weather was absolutely crap that day (wind/snow) so I was being extra cautious). Each stop was about 30-40 minutes...
Other than those 2 trips where I needed to stop for a charge mid journey, all my (slow) charging takes place while I’m at home asleep. So like someone coming to your house at night and slowing filling your petrol tank over a 3-4 hour period. I can live with the slightly extended duration of ‘fast’ charging stops mid journey as its outweighed by never needing to waste time stopping in petrol stations for the other 360 days of the year or so I’m doing normal driving...

I also (still) have a diesel car, and the philosophy was to always fill it when it needed a fuel stop. Diesel pumps are manky enough as it is, so the less times I need to use them the better (the next time you pump diesel, smell your hand). In the last year I put diesel into it twice, and I don’t miss going into petrol stations to pay for fuel.

AndyBoBandy

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

I....... (the next time you pump diesel, smell your hand)......

Oh wow, is that why decent service stations have been providing gloves for a decade ➕ :pac:

whisky_galore

Augeo wrote: »

Oh wow, is that why decent service stations have been providing gloves for a decade ➕ :pac:

Have a pair of your own workgloves, they're not expensive, sheesh.
Not every place has gloves, and where they do, guranteed like the sanitiser no-one bothers their arse refilling when empty.

Wesser

Seriously.... how much does the weight of a few litres of fuel actually cost???!!!

Oink

Bass Reeves wrote: »

OP friend is fairly right. First starting and stopping a car uses more fuel.

That might be old news. The owner’s manual for my 2014 diesel specifically says it’s a good idea to turn off the engine if you’re going to stop for more than 30 seconds, in order to save diesel. It also has the auto start/stop thing.

Gerry

Alright, here it is.
Fill up to the neck, every time.
The extra hydrostatic pressure will cut down on fuel pump cavitation - translation - less air going into the engine and more lovely fuel.
The extra weight will keep more weight on the rear wheels of the car, if your car is rear wheel drive, this helps on snowy mornings with traction. If its front wheel drive it wont help with that at all.
But that's not all! When going around bends the extra weight will keep the back of the car stuck to the road, this is a big help on motorway exits, roundabouts and deadmans curve.
Regards/Thanks as appropriate.

vintagevrs

Gerry wrote: »

Alright, here it is.
Fill up to the neck, every time.
The extra hydrostatic pressure will cut down on fuel pump cavitation - translation - less air going into the engine and more lovely fuel.
The extra weight will keep more weight on the rear wheels of the car, if your car is rear wheel drive, this helps on snowy mornings with traction. If its front wheel drive it wont help with that at all.
But that's not all! When going around bends the extra weight will keep the back of the car stuck to the road, this is a big help on motorway exits, roundabouts and deadmans curve.
Regards/Thanks as appropriate.

If anyone can explain the benefits of carrying around extra fuel, Gerry can.

Wishbone Ash

Larbre34 wrote: »

Fuel is heavy. Why would you carry more of it around than absolutely necessary? All it does its increase its own consumption.

20 quid on a typical Irish diesel is good for 300-350 kms, loads.

Do you not value your time? Let's say you are worth €40 per hour. With unnecessary visiting of filling stations, you're probably wasting €5 to €10 per visit in an attempt to save a few cents.

Bass Reeves

Oink wrote: »

That might be old news. The owner’s manual for my 2014 diesel specifically says it’s a good idea to turn off the engine if you’re going to stop for more than 30 seconds, in order to save diesel. It also has the auto start/stop thing.

No it's not old news you owners manual is after telling you you use nearly 30 seconds of idling fuel to stop and start. You also have the physical act of slowing the car down and getting it back up through the gears to driving speed.

As for extra fuel over the use of a fill it's 20 kgs average compared to a person that fills a quarter full every time. That about the equivalent of carrying a small grocery shop in the car. it's effect on your fuel efficiency will be less than 0.5%. extra, 0.3l of fuel or 40cent in cost. Against that you will use at least the equivalent stopping and starting at fuel stations.

Finally you are more price away if completely filling a car. One cent on a fill the s worth 60 cent

barneygumble99

If you do more than 500km a week brim it every time, if you do 5km a week just put €10 in. Fairly logical no

Darc19

barneygumble99 wrote: »

If you do more than 500km a week brim it every time, if you do 5km a week just put €10 in. Fairly logical no

Stop being sensible

whisky_galore

whisky_galore wrote: »

Have a pair of your own workgloves, they're not expensive, sheesh.
Not every place has gloves, and where they do, guranteed like the sanitiser no-one bothers their arse refilling when empty.

I was more alluding to the fact that there being a smell off diesel is well known, not a new revelation whereby folk need to go sniffing their hand to ascertain

CIP4

I have always just filled the tank in my car since I started driving. Unless you do really really low miles I wouldn’t see the point of doing €20 fills. If you put a value on your time you will fill the tank each time. As for the weight saving fuel argument I think if you fill the tank carry the extra weight. Then spend some of the time you’ve saved on fuel station stops checking and ensuring your tyre pressure is correct. You’ll save a lot more on fuel over the course of the year that way IMO.

zg3409

Here is a good reason to fill up a diesel

The DPF will not regenerate if
■ There is less than 20 litres of fuel in the fuel tank

From:
http://www.techtalk.ie/technical_articles/causes-of-dpf-failure-and-how-to-perform-a-regeneration/

Thus if you are always running on 1/4 tank then your DPF may be permanently damaged.

kaahooters

Jesus lads, lock down has hit yall feckin hard with this one.

StonedRaider

MrMusician18 wrote: »

I wouldn't think there is much difference but certain cars use a fuel additive called Eoly's and that's delivered to the fuel tank every time you open and close the fuel door. While the amount added depends on the quantity of fuel in the tank, more frequent fuelling results in this rather expensive additive being used faster.

This is absolutely correct. Almost all the earlier Hdi's had eolys pouches that were a bastard to remove/refill. To replace, bill was apprx €200+ labour. The later models then came with a refillable tank. So it was always advised to brim it when refuelling. Plus as was mentioned somewhere that the dpf doesn't regen when the fuel level is below 20 litres

padyjoe

I'm not sure: whether I fill myself to the brim or not, I still release pressure regardless. I think I should stop eating because some stuff evaporates into the air, I kinda think I will save money this way.

The J Stands for Jay

padyjoe wrote: »

I'm not sure: whether I fill myself to the brim or not, I still release pressure regardless. I think I should stop eating because some stuff evaporates into the air, I kinda think I will save money this way.

There's an automatic pressure release valve at the bottom that stops most hasses from escaping from the refueling orifice.

ectoraige

So many answers given to the physics of it, not many pertaining to the human factors.

How disciplined are you at the petrol station? Do you ever pick up a cup of coffee or a cheeky bar of chocolate that you would have gone without had you not stopped?

If you do even once a month that extra cost is going to have the biggest single impact on your expenditure.

If fewer visits means less ancillary spending then brimming it is going to win out, all other factors aside.

ectoraige

Follow-up question: when I've finished dispensing fuel, should I leave the nozzle in while giving it a few little shakes to extract any last drops, or should I withdraw immediately to minimise evaporation?

ExMachina1000

It might save money in other ways though. Less stops to refuel means less than opportunity for impulse buys in the shop.

barneygumble99

ectoraige wrote: »

Follow-up question: when I've finished dispensing fuel, should I leave the nozzle in while giving it a few little shakes to extract any last drops, or should I withdraw immediately to minimise evaporation?

It’s a bit like going to the jacks, give it a little shake. In fact the whole refuelling thing is a bit like going to the jacks, why go when u don’t actually need to, strain the spuds/brim the tank and be done with it , the less visits the better, time saver.

Henry Ford III

I just fill it when needed. Life is too short to spend another moments thought on such trivialities.

Toyotafanboi

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I just fill it when needed. Life is too short to spend another moments thought on such trivialities.

Definitely. Hate having to get petrol equally as much as i hate getting groceries. Groceries once a week, try to avoid shopping every other day at all costs.

Hate having to stop for fuel. Brim the tank, drive to the fuel light and repeat.

I think the €20 method is worse for your cashflow too as you never get the full effect or cant fully quantify how much of the twenty you used.

Wishbone Ash

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

.... Groceries once a week.....

Once a week!! I hate shopping and complain when I have to do it maybe once or twice per year.

Another thing I don't understand is smokers buying cigarettes every day or a couple of times per day. When I smoked, I'd buy a few cartons on payday to avoid having to visit shops.

newmember2

Seven pages of nobody actually reading the OP and instead goin on about multiple refuels versus one refuel bolloxology.

FrankC21

Ok, i put €63 to be precise up to brim today about 40 something litres of daysul, that's coming up as 1000km range on me dashboard. Will see, how long it will last me.

Lewis_Benson

CoBo55 wrote: »

First part yes.
Second part no, the new fuel mixes with the existing fuel.
I let mine down to when or just before the light comes on usually 1000 to 1100km put in my 60ml of miller's diesel additive and fill her up it's always very close to 60 litres. Couldn't be bothered with 20 here and a tenner there...

First part is irrelevant these days.
Fuel filters.

Truckermal

FrankC21 wrote: »

Ok, i put €63 to be precise up to brim today about 40 something litres of daysul, that's coming up as 1000km range on me dashboard. Will see, how long it will last me.

Bastard I only get 600km to 80 euro...