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Can I install a light (through an FCU) from a spur socket?

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    #2
    Tredstone.
    Site Banned Posts: 59 ✭✭Tredstone.


    It should be fine , are you sure it's even a ring final circuit anyway ?

    There was I think a few rules regarding spurs.....

    -Unused spurs not allowed on ring circuits (newish)

    -Number of spurs must not exceed number of points on the ring circuit ??

    -Spurs off radial socket circuits ,for small appliances only( not sure on this one ??)


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    #3
    Tredstone.
    Site Banned Posts: 59 ✭✭Tredstone.


    Is it minor works as well ? Not 100% on that

    Probably is


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    #4
    blueandgreen
    Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭blueandgreen


    Tredstone. wrote: »
    It should be fine , are you sure it's even a ring final circuit anyway ?

    Okay, thanks. Yes, it is.
    Tredstone. wrote: »
    There was I think a few rules regarding spurs.....
    -Unused spurs not allowed on ring circuits (newish)
    ok
    Tredstone. wrote: »
    -Number of spurs must not exceed number of points on the ring circuit ??
    ok
    Tredstone. wrote: »
    -Spurs off radial socket circuits ,for small appliances only( not sure on this one ??)
    I see. Out of interest, do you know what constitutes a small appliance? Is it based on wattage? Or something else?


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    #5
    blueandgreen
    Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭blueandgreen


    Tredstone. wrote: »
    Is it minor works as well ? Not 100% on that

    Probably is

    yes, it is


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    #6
    Tredstone.
    Site Banned Posts: 59 ✭✭Tredstone.


    Rereading there I see you're attempting to spur off a spur which is presumably an unfused spur to a socket

    That probably wouldn't be allowed

    ET101 allows a fused spur to an appliance or the outdoor type socket,not sure on ET10101


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    #7
    Tredstone.
    Site Banned Posts: 59 ✭✭Tredstone.


    The unfused spur is gone now so your situation probably isn't mentioned in the rules now

    When the unfused spur was allowed it was to spur to a single socket only if I recall


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    #8
    blueandgreen
    Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭blueandgreen


    Thanks, I've been looking at the ET10101 regulations.

    I guess my best option might be to convert the existing spur to a fused spur? (Then I'll add another FCU between that spur and the new light fixture).


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    #9
    Tredstone.
    Site Banned Posts: 59 ✭✭Tredstone.


    FCU not to be confused with a fused spur in the context of a ring circuit , the terms do be interchanged

    A fused spur in the context of a ring means you're inserting a fuse at the point where you tee off

    A FCU sometimes called a fused spur is an electrical accessory providing fusing and isolation


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    #10
    Risteard81
    Registered Users Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭Risteard81


    blueandgreen wrote: »
    Thanks, I've been looking at the ET10101 regulations.
    Are you referring to ET 101 or I.S. 10101?

    There is no such standard as "ET10101".


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    #11
    Tredstone.
    Site Banned Posts: 59 ✭✭Tredstone.


    Realistically now the domestic ring final circuit is almost gone and radial final socket circuits are not designed to feed heavy duty 13amp fixed appliances

    FCUs off radials are ok for small loads

    I presume IS.10101 merely repeats that unfused spurs off rings are not allowed and radial fused spurs are for small loads


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    #12
    Risteard81
    Registered Users Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭Risteard81


    Tredstone. wrote: »
    Realistically now the domestic ring final circuit is almost gone and radial final socket circuits are not designed to feed heavy duty 13amp fixed appliances

    FCUs off radials are ok for small loads

    I presume IS.10101 merely repeats that unfused spurs off rings are not allowed and radial fused spurs are for small loads
    There's nothing wrong with a correctly designed and verified ring final circuit. I'm certainly not an opponent of their use.


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    #13
    Tredstone.
    Site Banned Posts: 59 ✭✭Tredstone.


    Risteard81 wrote: »
    There's nothing wrong with a correctly designed and verified ring final circuit. I'm certainly not an opponent of their use.

    If the integrity of the ring can be maintained,no problem


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    #14
    Risteard81
    Registered Users Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭Risteard81


    Tredstone. wrote: »
    If the integrity of the ring can be maintained,no problem
    Of course. As with all electrical work if must not be done if it can't be done properly. That's certainly not unique to ring final circuits - which are a very versatile and useful arrangement.

    Long live the ring final circuit!


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    #15
    Tredstone.
    Site Banned Posts: 59 ✭✭Tredstone.


    Risteard81 wrote: »
    Of course. As with all electrical work if must not be done if it can't be done properly. That's certainly not unique to ring final circuits - which are a very versatile and useful arrangement.

    Long live the ring final circuit!

    They'll live on in industry and so will the ring main

    I'm dubious now about ring final circuits for domestic installations


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    #16
    Tredstone.
    Site Banned Posts: 59 ✭✭Tredstone.


    Tredstone. wrote: »
    It should be fine , are you sure it's even a ring final circuit anyway ?

    There was I think a few rules regarding spurs.....

    -Unused spurs not allowed on ring circuits (newish)

    -Number of spurs must not exceed number of points on the ring circuit ??

    -Spurs off radial socket circuits ,for small appliances only( not sure on this one ??)

    "Number of spurs not exceeding number of points"

    Was that a first edition rule, the old yellow book ?

    There was also a rule that the domestic ring final spur fed a single point if I recall ?

    I think those rules were from the days of the unfused spur which was outlawed with the 2nd edition in 2008


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    #17
    Risteard81
    Registered Users Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭Risteard81


    Tredstone. wrote: »
    They'll live on in industry and so will the ring main

    I'm dubious now about ring final circuits for domestic installations
    Being honest I'm using them much less frequently in domestic installations, but they do still have their place. Weigh up the pros and cons of ring and radial final circuit arrangements, and use whichever is most appropriate. That is my maxim.


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    #18
    Risteard81
    Registered Users Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭Risteard81


    Tredstone. wrote: »
    I think those rules were from the days of the unfused spur which was outlawed with the 2nd edition in 2008
    4th Edition I presume you meant to type.

    Unfused spurs are still allowed under the 18th Edition IEE Wiring Regulations though. Correctly done an unfused spur is completely safe, but obviously not allowable under the Wiring Rules in the 26-Counties.


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    #19
    Tredstone.
    Site Banned Posts: 59 ✭✭Tredstone.


    Risteard81 wrote: »
    4th Edition I presume you meant to type.

    Unfused spurs are still allowed under the 18th Edition IEE Wiring Regulations though. Correctly done an unfused spur is completely safe, but obviously not allowable under the Wiring Rules in the 26-Counties.

    I'm getting mixed up, yellow book and red book

    I think I've thrown out the old yellow book, I went looking for it today to check the old rules on spurs


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    #20
    Tredstone.
    Site Banned Posts: 59 ✭✭Tredstone.


    In general I would prefer the UK wiring regulations

    They tend to apply logic to every situation ,which does result in a myriad of rules it has to be said

    Here it's all black and white often with little reasoning


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    #21
    Risteard81
    Registered Users Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭Risteard81


    Tredstone. wrote: »
    In general I would prefer the UK wiring regulations

    They tend to apply logic to every situation ,which does result in a myriad of rules it has to be said

    Here it's all black and white often with little reasoning

    I think there's good and bad to both approaches.


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