Republic of Ireland v Luxembourg - Match Thread - K.O 19.45 - RTE and Sky Sports

ben.schlomo

Zico ! wrote: »

because he coached these very players

By that rationale then the current management team are respected by the players!!

breezy1985

.G. wrote: »

Kenny who only has highly successful LOI experience aside from a brief period at Dunfermline isn't the answer but Damien Duff who has zero high level management experience is. OK then.

Ireland's next O'Leary/Hoolihan/Reid will be a manager rather than a player this time. Well at least it's something new

whiterebel

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Give Pep that Irish squad and wouldn’t be much different. There is a reason why Top class managers like O’Neill Trap and McCarthy in his second spell - play defensive, be hard to break down and play for set pieces. Because Ireland in this generation do not have the technical skill to play possession football properly. Ireland have no cultured players even on par with Georgia for example.

Browne seems to think he is part Brazilian....Unfortunately its the non footballing part.

10000maniacs

Zico ! wrote: »

ya man groovy

Very groovy.

lawred2

Absolute scutter.

Irish football is in a dark place.

The national team glossed over the state of the game here for a long time but it's clear that the emperor has no clothes.

Not much will change any time soon given the financials of the FAI

Oat23

Oat23 wrote: »

And sadly most Irish people were happy with that and they'd go back to it tomorrow.

It was glorious wasn't it? Sneaking our way into a finals from time to time with absolutely no hope of having any sort of impact. But the lads got their pints and a few weeks singing in the streets of some foreign city with the world media ten miles up their holes telling them how class they are for singing 'The Fields of Athenry' while we get smashed 4-0 by Spain.

Forget trying to change the future direction of Irish football and making them a team we can all enjoy watching. Dino-football and pints will do.

Most Irish fans were happy with better international results? Of course they were. And they were right.

You'd swear S.Kenny had us playing vast expansive football. The football is worse than Stan/Trap/O'Neill, and the results are a disgrace.
What I'd give for Trap now.


He's out of his depth. His level is many below International level. That's plain to see now. Seeing him in the interview afterwards I felt sorry for him, but tbh he also looked weak, and not a guy who really is in charge of the situation.

Father Hernandez

johnnyryan89 wrote: »

Probably not, but who is? What if the next guy has a poor start, or the guy after him.

When there's so much wrong with Irish football for so many years the anger, embarrassment, and whatever else emotions people are feeling right now need to be directed at those responsible for Irish football and the government to do something about the state that Irish football has been left rot away to here in Ireland.

I completely agree, I think there is misdirected anger at Kenny here while the real issues with Delaney and the FAI will get glossed over.

I've previously mentioned I want Kenny to succeed but is is getting more and more difficult to believe in the plan.

Who is is a great question. Do we get someone in once again and play to our 'strengths'. Go for a Big Sam approach (I am not advocating for Sam Allardyce btw) but someone along those lines once again as that is our level, we don't have the players so may as well make them function as a group of hard working footballers, lots of pressing like we know of in the Jack Charlton.

Ultimately right now, we don't have the players to play Kenny's apparent style of football.

thenightman

thenightman wrote: »

We're playing Qatar next week in Budapest. Great knowledge and interest in the game you have to be criticising Kenny, who's given most of his professional life to the sport in Ireland.


MON was given time up the north to try and play a different game to hoofball. We were never going to qualify for this world cup, at least give kenny the rest of the campaign to try and bed in his ideas. If there's no upturn in results by campaign end, fair enough he walks. But sacking him now and replacing him with Bryan Robson or god knows who and sticking 10 behind the ball for the remainder of pointless campaign makes no sense to me.

It was a joke. I’ve been following the team and LOI for 35 years, so go pick someone else to undermine.

gmisk

Zico ! wrote: »

ya man groovy

Duffman......never mind....

namloc1980

Damien Duff and someone else out mentiooned Sam Allardyce. Do people honestly think it would be that much better with those options? Christ.

Weepsie

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Funny how you equate direct football as dinosaur football. It is effective if done properly and works when players are limited technically compared to others. Greece won a Euros with it - focus on set plays. Leicester won the EPL with limited possession direct counter attacking play.

Greece and Leicester also had a cohort of very talented players with a lot of football skill that could play the game in a number of ways

RoryMac

Weepsie wrote: »

Luxembourg held france to a draw not so long ago, and barring one big defeat to sweden something like 5 years ago have been steadily improving.


We've at best stood still or gone backwards in that same time.

When we look at what much smaller countries are doing it's embarrassing in comparison to our association.


To be honest,we need a defeat like this , hopefully a proper wake up call is required

No doubt Luxembourg have improved while we have gone backwards but what wakeup call will this provide apart from the belief that we aren't reaching our potential even with the relatively poor squad we have?

Dr. Bre

namloc1980 wrote: »

Damien Duff and someone else out mentiooned Sam Allardyce. Do people honestly think it would be that much better with those options? Christ.

Allardyce had a 100 percent record managing England

Blanco100

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Chris Wilder got league 1 players to a top 10 finish in the premier league and he's out of work I'm sure he could at least get one win in 10 international games with championship level players.

What's Chris Wilder going to do long term for Irish football? Changing the manager of the senior national team means feck all when it really needs changing from the bottom up.

That's not defending Kenny either, he's out of his depth but it's of no long term benefit to the game in Ireland to be hiring the likes of Wilder to lead us to a world Cup so everyone can enjoy a knees up once every 12 years.

gmisk

namloc1980 wrote: »

Damien Duff and someone else out mentiooned Sam Allardyce. Do people honestly think it would be that much better with those options? Christ.

Do I think with someone like Allardyce we would beat Luxembourg? Yes

breezy1985

Father Hernandez wrote: »

I completely agree, I think there is misdirected anger at Kenny here while the real issues with Delaney and the FAI will get glossed over.

I've previously mentioned I want Kenny to succeed but is is getting more and more difficult to believe in the plan.

Who is is a great question. Do we get someone in once again and play to our 'strengths'. Go for a Big Sam approach (I am not advocating for Sam Allardyce btw) but someone along those lines once again as that is our level, we don't have the players so may as well make them function as a group of hard working footballers, lots of pressing like we know of in the Jack Charlton.

Ultimately right now, we don't have the players to play Kenny's apparent style of football.

What are our "strengths". Everyone assumes that we have these hardworking tough players because we are Ireland but honestly who do you put out to do this and where are you getting this magic striker to hoof it up to.

"Our strengths" is just like this nonsense that all Italians are tactical and defensive or all Africans are strong

namloc1980

gmisk wrote: »

Do I think with someone like Allardyce we would beat Luxembourg? Yes

Yeah, and one hoofball goalless draw and people would be calling for his head.

breezy1985

gmisk wrote: »

Do I think with someone like Allardyce we would beat Luxembourg? Yes

Tell me then what the starting 11 and tactics would be

gmisk

Dr. Bre wrote: »

Allardyce had a 100 percent record managing England

Lol...Plus he drinks pints of wine....he would be great craic as an Irish manager

McFly85

Absolutely no quick fix for this. Football has moved on, and Ireland needs to take responsibility for producing Irish players. Sending them to an increasingly busy English system isn’t going to work.

Plenty of smaller nations have spent years getting their house in order, all while we had a crook using the association to line his pockets. The complete mismanagement is now really showing it’s effects.

Kenny should get the rest of the campaign to improve, and if he finishes lower than third I think his position can be discussed. It’s a terrible result but going back to pay someone a couple of million to turn us back to hoof merchants isn’t the answer.

gormdubhgorm

J Mysterio wrote: »

He's looked uncomfortable in all the interviews I've seen him in. He actually can't maintain eye contact, which is bizarre for a manager. He's shifty and thoroughly unconvincing.

I think it has got to him. Defeat after defeat has chipped away at him. He looks on the verge of crying at times.Can’t be easy for him with a struggling team no fans. Nightmare.

Beechwoodspark

Yeah just on the back of a few comments had a look at a few of his interviews recently on YouTube.

He looks very awkward and uncomfortable doing media interviews.

Avoiding eye contact like his life depends on it

looking in every direction except directly at the person interviewing him.

Shifting and fidgeting constantly.

Long pauses and Stopping mid sentence

I just hope he is a better communicator away from the cameras with the players - this is where it really counts.

Agent Coulson

Kenny is a LoI manager who wants to play Champions League football with English Championship level players.

What we need is Championship level manager who knows how play with players of that level and play to their strengths as players not their weaknesses.

ben.schlomo

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Kenny is a LoI manager who wants to play Champions League football with English Championship level players.

What we need is Championship level manager who knows how play with players of that level and play to their strengths as players not their weaknesses.

And what's your expectations for that group of players?

namloc1980

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Kenny is a LoI manager who wants to play Champions League football with English Championship level players.

What we need is Championship level manager who knows how play with players of that level and play to their strengths as players not their weaknesses.

We tried the direct style and people lost their minds and ran Mick and MON out the door.

Did you smash it

What we need to realize is a manager with access to players for a couple of days is not going to be able to do that much unless he is a total genius. And Kenny is the opposite of a total genius.

kksaints

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Kenny is a LoI manager who wants to play Champions League football with English Championship level players.

What we need is Championship level manager who knows how play with players of that level and play to their strengths as players not their weaknesses.

What are these strengths? They're not particularly good defensively, lots of endeavor in midfield but bar Jack Byrne next to no quality on the ball. Forwards are blunt and not scoring either for club or country.

Father Hernandez

breezy1985 wrote: »

What are our "strengths". Everyone assumes that we have these hardworking tough players because we are Ireland but honestly who do you put out to do this and where are you getting this magic striker to hoof it up to.

"Our strengths" is just like this nonsense that all Italians are tactical and defensive or all Africans are strong

Genuinely, I don't know what our strengths are having never worked with these players.

Iceland was brought up earlier in the thread how they over reached recently because of good work ethos and a well coached sied albeit results have regressed recently. Finland have recently beaten us home and away, they've no superstars yet play cohesively as a team. There are many examples of lots of poorer teams punching above their weight cause players are heavily invested in the team and play to a system. Look at Luxembourg tonight, they were actually decent and no superstars.

Coleman earlier had a good game and we'd be blessed if we'd 10 more of him. Players are not there but surely Finland standard? Kenny hasn't got the best of our pool for 10 games now and not playing to our strengths. This is absolutely crucial to us succeeding.

gmisk

breezy1985 wrote: »

Tell me then what the starting 11 and tactics would be

I answered a question.
I have no idea what the team would look like, probably older for a start. Emphasis on long balls, crosses, set pieces, a lot of fouls...
Look it would be horrendous but it would be pretty effective, I think we would beat Luxembourg at home.
I have watched a lot of Blackburn matches over the years, Sam Allardyce did an amazing job with limited resources, flogging our better players most years.
I am not saying he would be brilliant for the Irish national team, but there would at least be a coherent strategy.

The most prescient aspect of Kenny's management is the fact that he will be sacked after more dire performances and it's not a case of if it happens but when it happens that infuriates me. If Kenny had the team of 2002-2006 playing this kind of football he would actually do very well given their technical talents but this team can't play that way and any manager who is above semi professional level would understand that. Being drawn in a WC qualifying group with Portugal and Serbia is tough but by no means impossible yet with Kenny as manager and this style of football being played by this group of players it's impossible to see how we could ever qualify.

We got to the Round of 16 in the 2016 Euros against France and even though we got beat by France there was always a chance we could still make a comeback. Hoofball tactics or not. The idea of giving Kenny more time is always convienent but even under MON and Keane they produced amazing results with hard to watch tactics. We drew against Poland and Germany and beat Germany with a hoofball to Long. That memory will stay with me forever, but Kenny playing his attractive football has given me a memory tonight that I hope I will forget in a few months time but will likely never.

We have Qatar on Wednesday and I'm not going to lie, if we lose that match then there's going to be war on here regarding Kenny and rightly so.

Blanco100

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Kenny is a LoI manager who wants to play Champions League football with English Championship level players.

What we need is Championship level manager who knows how play with players of that level and play to their strengths as players not their weaknesses.

Never heard such rubbish, Irish football needs a championship manager to deal with these players? Glad your not overseeing development of the game if that is the height of your ambitions with all due respect.

What we need is a functioning football setup in this country that maybe has aspirations of developing players of a higher level than English championship.

Im not a LOI head but drives me mad when people think football starts and finishes with the national team. It's the reason we are so sh*te.

gmisk

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Kenny is a LoI manager who wants to play Champions League football with English Championship level players.

What we need is Championship level manager who knows how play with players of that level and play to their strengths as players not their weaknesses.

So....Mick McCarthy...?
I think he is pretty happy at Cardiff now tbh...they have lost once in fourteen matches since he took over.

lawred2

gmisk wrote: »

I answered a question.
I have no idea what the team would look like, probably older for a start. Emphasis on long balls, crosses, set pieces, a lot of fouls...
Look it would be horrendous but it would be pretty effective, I think we would beat Luxembourg at home.
I have watched a lot of Blackburn matches over the years, Sam Allardyce did an amazing job with limited resources, flogging our better players most years.
I am not saying he would be brilliant for the Irish national team, but there would at least be a coherent strategy.

We couldn't afford him.

He's an employed premier league manager.

Why would he manage Ireland?

~Rebel~

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Kenny is a LoI manager who wants to play Champions League football with English Championship level players.

What we need is Championship level manager who knows how play with players of that level and play to their strengths as players not their weaknesses.

I think we’ve reeeeaaallly built up this “Kenny-ball” thing into something it’s just not. Championship teams do what he’s asking the Irish team to do. It’s super basic passing, moving, and pressing. There is nothing complex about it.

It’s going horribly, but let’s not pretend he’s trying to get them doing some elite level magic out there. The basic principles are just one step above the troglodyte football we had been playing previously.

If someone else came in, I’d want them to keep the team playing a basic bit of football - but to add some cutting edge to it in the final third. That’s what Kenny’s failed to achieve so far.

gmisk

lawred2 wrote: »

We couldn't afford him.

He's an employed premier league manager.

Why would he manage Ireland?

I know that and he wouldn't.....I was answering a question. Read the other posts.

lawred2

Blanco100 wrote: »

Never heard such rubbish, Irish football needs a championship manager to deal with these players? Glad your not overseeing development of the game if that is the height of your ambitions with all due respect.

What we need is a functioning football setup in this country that maybe has aspirations of developing players of a higher level than English championship.

Im not a LOI head but drives me mad when people think football starts and finishes with the national team. It's the reason we are so sh*te.

Need to find a way that makes it commercially viable for young players to remain in Ireland longer. And it needs to be done with LOI clubs.

The FAI thinks it should own youth development outside of the clubs.

Morally bankrupt narcissists.

lawred2

gmisk wrote: »

I know that and he wouldn't.....I was answering a question. Read the other posts.

I did.

It's pointless.

RonanG86

namloc1980 wrote: »

We tried the direct style and people lost their minds and ran Mick and MON out the door.

It wasn't just about style though, was it?

We got gradually more direct under MON after Euro 2016 and apart from a good win against Austria, the results got worse. Ultimately cumulating in the Denmark and Wales games. And Mick's direct style didn't a yield a goal from open play in 180 minutes against Georgia.

I actually don't know what should be done about the manager's job. As I said, I think we have the players to beat Luxembourg and the result tonight wasn't acceptable. But is bringing in someone else to be boot it be more pragmatic just going to paper over the cracks for another 2-4 years?

Certainly I think most would agree that regardless of who's in charge of the senior side, major changes need to happen to how we develop our players.

gmisk

lawred2 wrote: »

I did.

It's pointless.

Just like Ireland in our world cup qualification group....

"Damien Duff and someone else out mentiooned Sam Allardyce. Do people honestly think it would be that much better with those options? Christ."
I do think we would have beaten Luxembourg with Sam Allardyce.
I also think we would have beaten them with Mick McCarthy....he got results as manager before Stephen Kenny so not a radically different set of players.

dfx-

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Kenny is a LoI manager who wants to play Champions League football with English Championship level players.

What we need is Championship level manager who knows how play with players of that level and play to their strengths as players not their weaknesses.

That results in another bodge job for another generation. And it hasn't been very successful - no qualification for the World Cup in 20 years doing it that way either.

It's not the low point of Irish football or anything like it - much worse have been results papering over cracks. Needing extra injury time to beat San Marino will always be the low point. Cyprus 5-2, Denmark 1-5, Germany 1-6, Kazakhstan, late equaliser in Macedonia in 99..

~Rebel~

RonanG86 wrote: »

It wasn't just about style though, was it?

We got gradually more direct under MON after Euro 2016 and apart from a good win against Austria, the results got worse. Ultimately cumulating in the Denmark and Wales games. And Mick's direct style didn't a yield a goal from open play in 180 minutes against Georgia.

I actually don't know what should be done about the manager's job. As I said, I think we have the players to beat Luxembourg and the result tonight wasn't acceptable. But is bringing in someone else to be boot it be more pragmatic just going to paper over the cracks for another 2-4 years?

Certainly I think most would agree that regardless of who's in charge of the senior side, major changes need to happen to how we develop our players.

Absolutely regardless of what the board are thinking, I’d keep Kenny for the next international window purely so a new guy wasn’t coming straight into Portugal Away and an almost certain defeat. And it gives Kenny one last chance to get wins from Azerbaijan and Serbia at home in the same window.

I think after those 3 games we entirely know where we stand with him and how bad it is, and can make the call more clearly then. Still gives any new man 2 more international windows and 4 games to get settled before we shift gears for the Euros campaign.

If we started Monday morning, we'd be at least 20 years away from anything resembling functioning soccer setup.

Irish soccer is beyond repair.

breezy1985

gmisk wrote: »

I answered a question.
I have no idea what the team would look like, probably older for a start. Emphasis on long balls, crosses, set pieces, a lot of fouls...
Look it would be horrendous but it would be pretty effective, I think we would beat Luxembourg at home.
I have watched a lot of Blackburn matches over the years, Sam Allardyce did an amazing job with limited resources, flogging our better players most years.
I am not saying he would be brilliant for the Irish national team, but there would at least be a coherent strategy.

So you don't have a clue what players will enact these tactics but you are sure they will be effective.
What a load of nonsense

RonanG86

Deleted User wrote: »

If we started Monday morning, we'd be at least 20 years away from anything resembling functioning soccer setup.

Irish soccer is beyond repair.

Then let's hope we start on Monday morning. At least figuratively.

Spoiler alert: We won't though.

Blanco100

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If we started Monday morning, we'd be at least 20 years away from anything resembling functioning soccer setup.

Irish soccer is beyond repair.

It's a part time game in this country. Even with the pro clubs. At underage it's even taught as a pastime.

The biggest damning is the contact hours the best young players have.

It's only when they get to England do they sample that environment. And in a globalized game, it's forcing our lads to the fringes.

Zak Flaps

" You neeeever beat the Irish, you'll neeeever beat the Irish! "

J Mysterio

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Kenny is a LoI manager who wants to play Champions League football with English Championship level players.

What we need is Championship level manager who knows how play with players of that level and play to their strengths as players not their weaknesses.

Mick McCarthy?

gmisk

breezy1985 wrote: »

So you don't have a clue what players will enact these tactics but you are sure they will be effective.
What a load of nonsense

Of course I am not sure.

But Mick McCarthy got results against poor teams with a pretty similar pool of players to pick from that Kenny has...did he not?
If any other manager in recent times got the results Kenny has since he has taken over they would be fired imo.

Bob Harris

Outwardly Kenny does not transmit much confidence and the players on the pitch tonight didnt display much either.

For Forks Sake

Actually on reflection, what he did when Doherty got injured was ludicrous.

Logical management
(A) If he wanted to stick with the 3-5-2, then bring on a CB and push Coleman out to RWB
(B) Go to 4 at the back with Coleman RB

Kenny: play Browne at RWB for the entire second half, to f*ck all effect.