Republic of Ireland v Luxembourg - Match Thread - K.O 19.45 - RTE and Sky Sports

kksaints

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Actually on reflection, what he did when Doherty got injured was ludicrous.

Logical management
(A) If he wanted to stick with the 3-5-2, then bring on a CB and push Coleman out to RWB
(B) Go to 4 at the back with Coleman RB

Kenny: play Browne at RWB for the entire second half, to f*ck all effect.

Browne has played RWB for Preston apparently but I agree it was a strange call. I don't think the 3-5-2 works well for us with Doherty out of form.

Loafing Oaf

Zak Flaps wrote: »

" You neeeever beat the Irish, you'll neeeever beat the Irish! "

On Luxemburgish radio tonight

"Eamon De Valera! Brendan Behan! Graham Norton! John Hayes! Can you hear me Daniel O'Donnell? Your boys took a hell of a beating!"

J Mysterio

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Actually on reflection, what he did when Doherty got injured was ludicrous.

Logical management
(A) If he wanted to stick with the 3-5-2, then bring on a CB and push Coleman out to RWB
(B) Go to 4 at the back with Coleman RB

Kenny: play Browne at RWB for the entire second half, to f*ck all effect.

Any Christie was on the bench. He's generally played very well for us.

kona

****ing hell, some people just want ****e and mediocrity.

kona

tayto lover wrote: »

So you have no answers then? Says a lot.

I just gave you the answers, you ****in ignorant twat.

Liam O

I really don't know what to think of tonight. Been a bit numb since their goal. What happened that 2nd half was insane.

piplip87

I'm all for changing the system and style of play but I can tell you one thing we would not have lost that game under Mccarthy, O'Neil or Trap. Absolute disgraceful stuff tonight.

Maybe Trap and O'Neil where right about the limitations

applehunter

At least teams are still kneeling for BLM.

Results change from game to game but ultimately as long as players are kneeling for BLM before every game who really cares about results.

PropJoe10

Thought Coleman's comments, while honest, were pretty disrespectful to Luxembourg to be honest. An up and coming football nation that deserved their win. You don't get too many rollover wins when you've a team as lacking in quality as ours.

Brian?

kksaints wrote: »

Browne has played RWB for Preston apparently but I agree it was a strange call. I don't think the 3-5-2 works well for us with Doherty out of form.

Can anyone point me to a successful side that played 3-5-2 ever? I honestly can’t think of one.

It’s a formation that never works

CSF

Brian? wrote: »

Can anyone point me to a successful side that played 3-5-2 ever? I honestly can’t think of one.

It’s a formation that never works

Chelsea are doing it very well right now.

piplip87

Brian? wrote: »

Can anyone point me to a successful side that played 3-5-2 ever? I honestly can’t think of one.

It’s a formation that never works

Its a formation that can work if you have a creative CAM, a decent holding midfielder and someone who can stick the ball in the back of the net. Unfortunately we don't have any of the above.

Wolves also right? And sheffield united last year

Weepsie

Brian? wrote: »

Can anyone point me to a successful side that played 3-5-2 ever? I honestly can’t think of one.

It’s a formation that never works

England in last world cup.

Germany euros 1996 and Dortmund 1996-1998

Weepsie

piplip87 wrote: »

I'm all for changing the system and style of play but I can tell you one thing we would not have lost that game under Mccarthy, O'Neil or Trap. Absolute disgraceful stuff tonight.

Maybe Trap and O'Neil where right about the limitations

Might have played for the draw under o'neill and trap though which would have been more shameful.

noodler

Weepsie wrote: »

Might have played for the draw under o'neill and trap though which would have been more shameful.

Or won as we have done against just about every lower seed we've faced at home for about 30 years.

CSF

One of the things that has made me cringe most as a fan of a LOI club is the collective rush to Kenny’s defence that simply would not otherwise exist if he came from a different background.

I was very much hoping for a different outcome, but I don’t see what this idea is based on that Kenny is the vision of a different future that we just need to be patient for.

Liam O

CSF wrote: »

One of the things that has made me cringe most as a fan of a LOI club is the collective rush to Kenny’s defence that simply would not otherwise exist if he came from a different background.

I was very much hoping for a different outcome, but I don’t see what this idea is based on that Kenny is the vision of a different future that we just need to be patient for.

What would any of the other options have done though given what has happened? A result like this has been coming for years. It just happened to be now. Between 24 and 30 who is there? Like WTF happened?

Luxembourg were fitter and more up for it. They deserved to win. Worst result in Irish football history.

Nerdlingr

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Actually on reflection, what he did when Doherty got injured was ludicrous.

Logical management
(A) If he wanted to stick with the 3-5-2, then bring on a CB and push Coleman out to RWB
(B) Go to 4 at the back with Coleman RB

Kenny: play Browne at RWB for the entire second half, to f*ck all effect.

Crazy decision to leave Doherty on till half time anyway. You could see he was done once he got injured. What was the point in playing him for the rest of the half? And as you say, then replace him with Browne??! Who's meant to be our attacking midfielder?
Christie was on the bench, a perfect like for like replacement who's actually half decent going forward.
Shambles of a performance all round.
In saying that, I find myself not upset about it at all. Total indifference really. We've such a poor group of players who constantly pick the wrong option that when we do deserve to lose it doesn't bother me that much.

One thing tonight, the amount of needless frees given away by us when Luxembourg were in difficult positions on the pitch was insane! We kept on giving them an easy way out with stupid, stupid frees. That's what I'm most upset about. Idiotic decisions. Braindead stuff really.

CSF

Liam O wrote: »

What would any of the other options have done though given what has happened? A result like this has been coming for years. It just happened to be now. Between 24 and 30 who is there? Like WTF happened?

Luxembourg were fitter and more up for it. They deserved to win. Worst result in Irish football history.

I don't get the point here completely. Is it that we were destined to lose tonight regardless of who was in charge? I'm certainly not hyping up the quality of this group of players but eh that feels a bit wide of the mark.


Kenny has gone through the playoffs and the Nations League, and now we're in the World Cup Qualifiers and he hasn't won a game.


Yes, it is fair to say that this is a weak group of players even for Ireland, but I don't know if we should be resigned to the idea of not being able to even steal 1 or 2 wins from Slovakia, Bulgaria, Finland, Wales, Serbia and Luxembourg. Most of these are quite passable football teams, but there are no superpowers in that list. We couldnt have had one night where things clicked for us?


I don't think it is a smart idea to sack Kenny now, but once this campaign is over and his contract is up, what case is Kenny going to be able to make for him getting another contract? We've 2 games against Portugal and Azerbaijan and 1 each with Serbia and Luxembourg. What could he really do now that would take the bad look off where we are?

applehunter

CSF wrote: »

One of the things that has made me cringe most as a fan of a LOI club is the collective rush to Kenny’s defence that simply would not otherwise exist if he came from a different background.

I was very much hoping for a different outcome, but I don’t see what this idea is based on that Kenny is the vision of a different future that we just need to be patient for.

The self-loathing LOI supporter.

On top of being a post colonial society, being a LOI supporter will mess with your head.

Nalz

Worst result in Irish history, possibly.

Shocking performance. Egypt 1990, Have a Macedonia and Cyprus hammering us are probably worse performances. The 2-0 win over Gibraltar was definitely worse performance wise. Still, no excuses tonight and over the last 11 matches.

gormdubhgorm

applehunter wrote: »

The self-loathing LOI supporter.

On top of being a post colonial society, being a LOI supporter will mess with your head.

I feel sorry for the poor b@stards. People going on about covid19 damaging mental health. Being a LOI supporter must take some toll over a lifetime!

ittakestwo

johnnyryan89 wrote: »

No they haven't. From the age of 12 they've a full time academy that trains five times a week and once you turn 14 you're basically based there full time. If they had the population we had, and with the time and effort they put into developing young players they'd be up there competing for play offs.

The FAI need to go down this pro active route. Players aren't coming through. As bad as that result was it was not that uexpected given what we have. We don't have the players to qualify for the WC. Rugby and GAA are doing far better job at growing their sport. FAI needs to fight back not just expect players to come through.

Brian?

Weepsie wrote: »

England in last world cup.

Germany euros 1996 and Dortmund 1996-1998

Ok I’ll give you Germany and Dortmund, 25 years ago.

The rear of the teams people are naming aren’t successful teams.

Did you smash it

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Crazy decision to leave Doherty on till half time anyway. You could see he was done once he got injured. What was the point in playing him for the rest of the half? And as you say, then replace him with Browne??! Who's meant to be our attacking midfielder?
Christie was on the bench, a perfect like for like replacement who's actually half decent going forward.

Coleman should be RWB. And Brady should be LWB.

Doherty is a backup defender and Stevens is a decent option for a backs to the wall job. He’s Stephen Ward mk II. Gives you nothing going forward.

The Golden Miller

Was the result really THAT bad? These things are cyclical. Luxembourg are probably the best they've ever been in their history, whereas we're not far off being as bad as we've ever been. Is that lack of quality really Kenny's fault?

Managers job is to put a system in place and get the best out of what we do have. But what we do have is very limited. But there is room for improvement for Kenny, and he has to do a bit better. He should get more time though

TheCitizen

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Was the result really THAT bad? These things are cyclical. Luxembourg are probably the best they've ever been in their history, whereas we're not far off being as bad as we've ever been. Is that lack of quality really Kenny's fault?

Managers job is to put a system in place and get the best out of what we do have. But what we do have is very limited. But there is room for improvement for Kenny, and he has to do a bit better. He should get more time though

Why should he get more time? It’s not working. It was Luxembourg. He probably will get the rest of the campaign because the FAI are in a state of paralysis. There’s no future in it for him though, the players not buying into it.

DeanAustin

TheCitizen wrote: »

Why should he get more time? It’s not working. It was Luxembourg. He probably will get the rest of the campaign because the FAI are in a state of paralysis. There’s no future in it for him though, the players not buying into it.

Because he’s got the weakest squad in living memory if not ever.

Because he’s trying to change a style of play we’ve employed for decades and that is deeply embedded.

Because he’s only a year and 10 games in.

Because he’s had fairly horrendous luck with Covid and injuries.

There is a very strong argument for getting rid of Kenny. But there is also an argument for keeping him as unacceptable as last night was. Personally, I’d give him to the end of the campaign and see if things improve.

Felt sorry for him last night. You could see he was heartbroken and is ill equipped for the media part of this. Kenny is a good man, a decent manager who is passionate about the game in this country. I’d give him a bit longer because we can’t really afford to change, who would we get that would make much difference, he’s set a very ambitious target that takes time and he’s learning the job in difficult circumstances.

zig

FAI won’t be getting rid of him any time soon. They are still in disarray and haven’t a penny.

Not to mention the Aviva matches will probably remain behind closed doors anyway so it’s not like it’s going to affect ticket sales.

For now I’m glad because this manager hopping isn’t gonna work. It’s the same cycle over and over, hope after some “historic” Irish football night until we get found out.

He is genuinely attempting something different, he’ll get used to the interviews.

At least with Kenny there is a different story playing out, we don’t know how this will develop and right now is the perfect time to allow that because the Irish fans who love their Italia 90 nostalgia wouldn’t be doing anything different even if the team was playing well.

We need to think long term, forget about this WC.

I feel bad for the players, we have a lifetime of world cups to hope for, players only get 3 or 4 chances.

osarusan

zig wrote: »

We need to think long term, forget about this WC.

I'm not at all convinced that in whatever long term plan we might envision, Kenny is the man for the job either. Even in terms of what we could get for his salary, I'm sure there's better out there.

CSF wrote: »

but I don’t see what this idea is based on that Kenny is the vision of a different future that we just need to be patient for.

Agreed. If I had the sense that there was progress being made towards a certain long-term goal, and times and results like these are things we just have to suffer along the way, then so be it, but I don't see any evidence of progress at all.

Even by the extremely low expectations of one of the worst set of players we've had in 3 or 4 decades, there is nothing that mitigates against losing at home to Luxembourg.

Fr Tod Umptious

The way things are going there is a chance we could finish in the bottom two of this group, if not last.

That is going to kill our ranking and seeding for qualifications going forward.

We'll likely be 4th seed and lower.

That in turn will make it much harder to qualify in the future, leading to this vicious circle of failing to qualify and failing to get good group draws to try and have a shot of qualifying out of.

The FAI need to look long and hard at the future.
I know they are broke but they need to get this sorted.
Ten games is a lot of rope for a guy who's only experience outside Ireland was failure in Scotland.

He needs to go, simple.

Richard Hillman

When you look at clubs like Sunderland, we were all quick to mock them for constantly going for the fire fight manager. They did it for years and eventually got-got. Same managers, same problems, constant decline.

At least Stephen Kenny is trying something different. He may not be THE guy but he could set it up nicely for the next guy.

There was a lot of talk about John Toshack took the heat of Wales doing badly but the managers and players who succeeded after were always quick to thank him. Roy Hodgson did something similar with England and Southgate has inherited he work.

We can't just keep on firefighting from manager to manager and become Sunderland.

FixdePitchmark

Richard Hillman wrote: »

When you look at clubs like Sunderland, we were all quick to mock them for constantly going for the fire fight manager. They did it for years and eventually got-got. Same managers, same problems, constant decline.

At least Stephen Kenny is trying something different. He may not be THE guy but he could set it up nicely for the next guy.

There was a lot of talk about John Toshack took the heat of Wales doing badly but the managers and players who succeeded after were always quick to thank him. Roy Hodgson did something similar with England and Southgate has inherited he work.

We can't just keep on firefighting from manager to manager and become Sunderland.

We are Sunderland- till we die .

noodler

Can we be fourth seeds for the euros? If this campaign went badly enough?

Francie Barrett

Richard Hillman wrote: »

There was a lot of talk about John Toshack took the heat of Wales doing badly but the managers and players who succeeded after were always quick to thank him. Roy Hodgson did something similar with England and Southgate has inherited he work.

Don't buy this at all.

While I think Southgate is doing a decent job, he is the recipient of an unbelievable amount of talent that has come through in the last few years. Part of this is that the English clubs have improved their set up, part of it is the English FA, part of it is just the cyclical nature of how talent emerges.

johnnyryan89

Blanco100 wrote: »

It's a part time game in this country. Even with the pro clubs. At underage it's even taught as a pastime.

The biggest damning is the contact hours the best young players have.

It's only when they get to England do they sample that environment. And in a globalized game, it's forcing our lads to the fringes.

Barry Maguire said it on a podcast while he was here playing in Ireland, that it baffled him how 9 and 10 year olds train more every week in Ireland than LOI underage teams. A new underage league set up for the best teenagers in Ireland to train and play together, but yet 9 year olds in Holland train more per week.

And speaking of environments, this is what young players in Luxembourg get:

"Depending on their age, players train up to five times a week at Mondercange. Players from U-12 to U-15 return to their clubs for further training sessions and league matches, while the older youths are enrolled full-time at the football school. Each age group has a head coach, assistant and goalkeeping coach. The football school sides are not entered for the domestic leagues, but instead play regular friendlies against French and Belgian teams, as the project's instigators believe this exposes the young players to consistently higher standards.

As of the 2003-4 season, the U-19 side competes in the South West Germany regional division, while talks are underway aimed at entering the U-17 side and a club drawn from the Luxembourg top flight in a foreign championship. Partnerships with football schools in other countries are also being explored."

That article was written in September 2003, 12 months after Mick had taken the lads to Japan and Korea. As you said the football environment in this country is basically a hobby compared to these so called football minnows.

johnnyryan89

noodler wrote: »

Can we be fourth seeds for the euros? If this campaign went badly enough?

No, pretty sure seeding for the Euros is based off of the nation's league. So seeding for Euro 24 will be determined by how we do in the nation's league in two years.

ShamNNspace

johnnyryan89 wrote: »

No, pretty sure seeding for the Euros is based off of the nation's league. So seeding for Euro 24 will be determined by how we do in the nation's league in two years.

We'll be fifth seeds so

zig

Genuine question to all that want Kenny gone,

If we had Guardiola how do you think we would do and what style of play do you think he’d have them playing?

johnnyryan89

Father Hernandez wrote: »

I completely agree, I think there is misdirected anger at Kenny here while the real issues with Delaney and the FAI will get glossed over.

I've previously mentioned I want Kenny to succeed but is is getting more and more difficult to believe in the plan.

Who is is a great question. Do we get someone in once again and play to our 'strengths'. Go for a Big Sam approach (I am not advocating for Sam Allardyce btw) but someone along those lines once again as that is our level, we don't have the players so may as well make them function as a group of hard working footballers, lots of pressing like we know of in the Jack Charlton.

Ultimately right now, we don't have the players to play Kenny's apparent style of football.

And that's just sticking a plaster over the wound that is the neglect of football in this country because everything will be viewed as rosey because the national team might punch above their weight once in awhile and football here in Ireland is neglected further while the pigs feast.

The only time we showed any urgency last night, and like most nights is when we went a goal down. That's disgraceful, and that falls on Kenny at the end of the day because he picks the players.

Any good structure has a solid foundation, Irish footballs foundation has finally rotted to the core and it's going to take more than a senior manager to fix things.

Gavlor

Worth remembering that every LOI premier league club has an academy comprising of u14,15, 17 & 19. All head coaches are supposed be uefa b as a minimum.

Contact hours vary between 7&10 per week. On top of the the fai have a central EPT programme where the elite of the aforementioned LOI academy get another couple of hours per week.

https://www.fai.ie/domestic/take-part-programmes/emerging-talent

The seeds have been sown but it’ll be another 5/7 years before we reap the benefits.

It’s always darkest before the dawn

Did you smash it

Ireland just isn’t a football country. Our club co-efficient is that of a Malta and way inferior to Cyprus.

We should have a league that can compete with Denmark. We are a rich country interested in sport.

Dalymount park (the supposed home of Irish football) is a half condemned ruin.

It’s the FAI’s fault but it’s also the government’s and public’s fault.

There is no football economy in Ireland.

tastyt

Kenny has been awful so far , simply no getting away from it. He must realise we don’t have the players to play football from our 6 yard box and cut teams open . He needs to mix it up. That doesn’t mean hoofball , it means getting the ball in behind earlier , passing forward quicker .

I was a supporter of the Kenny appointment but all that has been achieved so far is a little more possession , no results and he has taken our traditional strengths of aggression , passion and dangerous on set pieces out of the team .

On another note , we as a football country really don’t deserve to qualify for major tournaments, why should we. We have a league that has been totally neglected and up to a few years ago our “ professional “ clubs didn’t even have underage teams ffs.

And yet some of us wonder why it will be 20 years now since we’ve been to a World Cup .

You reap what you sow

Fr Tod Umptious

Did you smash it wrote: »

Ireland just isn’t a football country. Our club co-efficient is that of a Malta and way inferior to Cyprus.

We should have a league that can compete with Denmark. We are a rich country interested in sport.

Dalymount park (the supposed home of Irish football) is a half condemned ruin.

It’s the FAI’s fault but it’s also the government’s and public’s fault.

There is no football economy in Ireland.

Correct
Ireland is full of soccer fans of all levels of intensity, but the FAI make feck all revenue from them.

Because most of their money is spent on Sky subs, EPL replica kits, and trips to the UK.

I'd actually bet that most Irish soccer fans contribute more money to their local GAA club and county in the form of tickets, fundraising draws, gear etc than they do to soccer in Ireland.

tastyt

Another point , people saying Kenny needs time to get his message across to players.

These guys are all professional footballers in their 20”s that play the game every single day and have done for years . Do you honestly think they have never worked for a manager who wants to play football ?

Kenny is not doing anything revolutionary, he is trying to play a slow possession game with players that aren’t good enough to then inject a bit of pace and quality in the final third .

He also has 10 days every few months with them , he’s not going to improve players to any great extent .

The best managers see who they have available and make a plan around that and suit the players they have , they don’t let their ego and “ style” get in the way . Ferguson , Ancellotti, you never hear any bull**** about style of play from them .

Kenny was brought in and billed as the saviour and he said himself he would change the perception of the rest of the world of Irish football and players, which in itself was a huge insult to the managers and great players we’ve had in the past .

He’s a dead duck

Weepsie

Luxembourg have gone from 150 to as high as 82 in the last 5-6 years in the world rankings. Ireland have steadily hovered in the 30s but are now drifting back.

That's on the back of them having some proper structures in place, that we don't. A country of 600,000 supports a 14 team top division and a 16 team second division. They have actively sought to coach players from a young age with the goal of them making it as professionals and to improve the national team. They have done this since 2004/5 when they were way down at 180 in the rankings.

Our league isn't given a second thought by it's association. Teams have gone bust and come back. Others will know better than me whats wrong with the league, and it's structures, but it radically needs to be changed and soon, and with the goal of having a talented selection of players here from whom we could at the very least see go to higher leagues or get people going to games and interested in the game.

They need to also look at what the IRFU and GAA do with schools, clubs etc and just copy them.

Weepsie

tastyt wrote: »

The best managers see who they have available and make a plan around that and suit the players they have , they don’t let their ego and “ style” get in the way . Ferguson , Ancellotti, you never hear any bull**** about style of play from them .

Why would you. They could buy the players they wanted. That's a stupid comparison.

Anyway. In my head this world cup was never and should never be the goal, and that's not even because of the Qatar nonsense.

It should be 2024-2028 as we have a crop of under 21 players that are hopefully going to start making a decent fist of a professional career to turn is into a semi decent football team. My main problem is the fact that a few players who are having very poor seasons at club level are still getting regular call ups, and that shows some of the limitations.

McGeady is not the answer to anything, but his form warrants a squad place ahead of Brady and McClean who have been all levels of inconsistent to bad for a while now. A player like him around young players would do more too for their education, as despite his flaws in the irish jersey, he's still one of the most rtchnically gifted and smartest footballer we've had in the last 10-15 years

tayto lover

Everyone is looking for the Messiah who will come in and make this eclectic bunch into international competitors. The truth is that if Kenny is sacked we will get a new man in who will examine the tools at his disposal, see how poor they are, and revert back to the kick and rush brand of football which might get the odd point in a game or fluke a win once in a blue moon.
Kenny has been spoken of here as a LOI manager. Fair enough but he has also made a job of the U.21’s in a short few years.
I have been accused of supporting him because he was a successful Dundalk manager. I supported him because I like his footballing philosophy and I’m eager to get away from the kick and rush we have seen for years. The problem is that Kenny has a very poor squad some of whom probably couldn’t play either style of football and can’t even get games at their clubs. It’s a magic wand a manager would want.

briany

tayto lover wrote: »

Everyone is looking for the Messiah who will come in and make this eclectic bunch into international competitors. The truth is that if Kenny is sacked we will get a new man in who will examine the tools at his disposal, see how poor they are, and revert back to the kick and rush brand of football which might get the odd point in a game or fluke a win once in a blue moon.

Another manager would have access to (assuming full fitness) many of the same players that Martin O' Neill had (Duffy, Randolph, Coleman, Brady, McClean, McCarthy, Long etc), and as I recall, O'Neill had that team getting some tidy results in his first two campaigns in charge. It wasn't all roses, but the team was at least in the mixer for qualification.

The only way I want to see Ireland play passing football is if it gets better results than the alternative, and ultimately this is the way the majority of fans think. Football is about getting more goals than your opponent, not who had the most possession or passes completed.