Republic of Ireland v Luxembourg - Match Thread - K.O 19.45 - RTE and Sky Sports

polarbearhead

briany wrote: »

There were some positives from the game. Some nice passing at times. I made a gif of one such sequence.

😂 And I thought I watched too much of The Simpsons as a kid

briany

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Plus said by a country mile this is Ireland's worst team for the last 30/40 years.

I do and do not agree with that statement at the same time. If you played the 2001 Ireland squad minus its star players in the Keanes and Duff vs. the current one, would it be a hockeying? Or is it more that the average level of quality has risen around the world but the Irish game has never really moved on with it?

partyguinness

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Plus said by a country mile this is Ireland's worst team for the last 30/40 years.

30 to 40 years ago takes in Italia 90 and Euro 88 and missing out on WC 82 on goal difference


Try worst in 50 years.

~Rebel~

briany wrote: »

I do and do not agree with that statement at the same time. If you played the 2001 Ireland squad minus its star players in the Keanes and Duff vs. the current one, would it be a hockeying? Or is it more that the average level of quality has risen around the world but the Irish game has never really moved on with it?

We have a bit of depth at the back now at least, but Staunton, Dunne, Kelly, Harte, and Finnan were all really solid consistent players. Shay Given at that stage is probably our best ever keeper. Carsley and Holland would probably be our starters in midfield. And any of Connolly, Morrison, and Quinn up front would be starting ahead of anyone we have right now.

Even without the two Keanes and Duff, I’d fancy that 2001 team to concede less and score a lot more.

partyguinness

briany wrote: »

I do and do not agree with that statement at the same time. If you played the 2001 Ireland squad minus its star players in the Keanes and Duff vs. the current one, would it be a hockeying? Or is it more that the average level of quality has risen around the world but the Irish game has never really moved on with it?

To be fair why would you take out the Keanes and Duff? Do that and it is not a fair 2001 v 2020.

But yes the influx of players from around the world into the PL has pushed Irish players deeper down the leagues. Having said that if you are good you will make it and there is a lack of quality that you cannot just make up. Grit and detemination only gets you so far.

Even England now have fewer players playing with the top 1-4 sides than 20 years ago.

jacool

Just for perspective - these type of results do happen

This weekend (world rankings in brackets)
Ireland (43) 0-1 Luxembourg (98)
Armenia (99) 2-0 Iceland (46)
Slovakia (33) 2-2 Malta (176)
Spain (6) managed to come out of a home game against Greece (53) and an away game against Georgia (89) with 4 points, thanks to a stoppage time winner against the latter.
The gaps are narrowing.

partyguinness

jacool wrote: »

Just for perspective - these type of results do happen

This weekend (world rankings in brackets)
Ireland (43) 0-1 Luxembourg (98)
Armenia (99) 2-0 Iceland (46)
Slovakia (33) 2-2 Malta (176)
.

That goes to show where Ireland's future lies.


I wouldnt worry about Spain. They will be grand and Greece and Georgia are still a cut above Luxumbourg. Greece are several cuts above.

KungPao

Our slide into becoming little more than minnows is harder to take when you see how England are doing. I know they aren’t super technical and a bit light in midfield but those bastards could go on and win the World Cup!

Although their manager could with an upgrade.

We were arguably stronger than them in the early 90s.

partyguinness

KungPao wrote: »

Our slide into becoming little more than minnows is harder to take when you see how England are doing. I know they aren’t super technical and a bit light in midfield but those bastards could go on and win the World Cup!

Although their manager could with an upgrade.

We were arguably stronger than them in the early 90s.

We were definitely stronger than England up to 1995.

They won't win the WC. Not smart enough and lacking the technical skills as you mention.

There you go. I have jinxed it. England will defo win the WC now.

Bob Harris

KungPao wrote: »

Our slide into becoming little more than minnows is harder to take when you see how England are doing. I know they aren’t super technical and a bit light in midfield but those bastards could go on and win the World Cup!

Although their manager could with an upgrade.

We were arguably stronger than them in the early 90s.

In the late 80's early 90's most or Ireland's players were key men at English clubs who but for Heysel would have been very competitive in Europe.

The talent produced by Ireland now is non-existent in terms of real quality. We have no stand-out performers but a bunch of mediocre lads whose best is unfortunately not much better than we saw on Saturday.

If you look at the clubs where Irish players play every 5/10 years from say Euro 88 to the present day you see a steady decline in the level of clubs they are playing at. Whether it's lack of investment at underage level, competition from other sports or videogames or whatever there is no denying it.

johnnyryan89

KungPao wrote: »

Our slide into becoming little more than minnows is harder to take when you see how England are doing]. I know they aren’t super technical and a bit light in midfield but those bastards could go on and win the World Cup!

Although their manager could with an upgrade.

We were arguably stronger than them in the early 90s.

It's not really when you look at the resources they have, and how they're effectively utilising them now. Fully believe the only thing that's probably going to hold them back from winning a major tournament is Southgate. He was probably the right manager to come in when he did, but to go a level above and win a tournament I feel he's not the guy they need.

And thankfully for them they've moved on like the rest of the world, except the FAI.

whiterebel

I packed in coaching 10/12 years ago. We were asked to go on FAI coaching courses which were really good, surprisingly. We can away from Kickstart 1 & 2 with the words of the coaches ringing in our ears - 1 ball to each player in training. Back to the club - 10 balls between 30-40.
The coaches were on the right track, get the players used to the ball, pass it, no fear of it, don't kick the leather off it.Bbut after paying out the money for us to go on the course, the club totally ignored what they recommended. Balls were a €5 each, its not like we were after match quality footballs. Took us 2 years to get our certs. Apparently Packie Bonner was tearing his hair out.

Lads who got picked for Cork schoolboys squad had to buy all the kit themselves, I think it was about €275.00. Bag, tracksuit, kit. We had a brilliant defender, smallish, but really fast, fearless and skilful. Great tackler, never opened his mouth for good or bad. Never got a look in for Cork schoolboys, because apparently the coaches liked very tall CBs. Probably never heard of Fabio Cannavaro.

gormdubhgorm

briany wrote: »

I do and do not agree with that statement at the same time. If you played the 2001 Ireland squad minus its star players in the Keanes and Duff vs. the current one, would it be a hockeying? Or is it more that the average level of quality has risen around the world but the Irish game has never really moved on with it?

Good question. I think it a bit of both. It is obvious that a good few of the so called 'minnows; have improved from where they used to be 20 years ago.

Plus when you think about it Charlton's success was heavily weighted on exploiting the granny rule. That 2001 squad seem like it was a once in a generation group of players as regards the Irish born and bred lads.

In answer to your question would the 2001 team minus the stars beat this current Irish team? Honestly, I would say they would win pulling up.

Imagine the damage the pace of Connolly and Morrison would do to this Irish team? Plus Kinsella was a great man for keeping the ball. A very underrated player. Kenny would love a Kinsella now to build his team around a tidy player and a good passer. Steven Reid was another fella who was good on the ball who Kenny would kill for now.

John O'Shea could not even get into that Irish squad 01/02 when I think of it. Roy Keane was shouting for him to be included at the time. John O'Shea would be another fella that would suit the way Kenny wants to play.

Irish fans were spoiled then the more I think of it. Almost seems like an aberration of generation who were inspired by Big Jack when they were about 10.

There is going to be no inspiration from this current crop for future generations that is for sure.

And another poster alluded to the improvement of Dublin GAA. But I would add to that Irish Rugby which even though their golden generation period is finished. It would still have more glamour for young lads than Irish soccer.

Did you smash it

briany wrote: »

Actual good football to watch is effective football that gets results whether that be attacking or defensive.

Each to their own but I don’t find myself clearing out my calendar to watch Atletico even if they are top of La Liga.

gormdubhgorm

Did you smash it wrote: »

Each to their own but I don’t find myself clearing out my calendar to watch Atletico even if they are top of La Liga.

I always found it fascinating to watch Barcelona in their pomp v Atletico. Nice to see a clash of styles. Plus it got them results. I seem to remember Godin a defender scoring a crucial goal against Barcelona. It was absorbing to watch.

To be honest I don't care how this Ireland team plays as long as it gets the best of the players available. Plus I see the players are really giving it their all determination, closing down etc. That is not supposed to stop no matter style is used.

I don't see the best being got out of the players available, poor as they are. Nor do I think the players are giving their all no urgency nothing - there was a small bit of fight against Serbia. But that was the sum of it. I never thought I would say about an Irish soccer team, lacking commitment. But that is the vibe now.

Players will be feigning injury at international week with niggles etc I predict. In contrast to how it used to be. That players would nearly play through an injury to play for Ireland. Would you be bothered?

KungPao

Jesus yeah, imagine a 10 year old looking at us now. Hardly inspirational. Nobody wants to grow up and be any of the current shower that plays for Ireland. Seamus Coleman is probably the only one a kid looks up to.

I’m sure the FAI have a master plan to improve things though.

CrowdedHouse

A good read

http://ourmaninstockholm.com/2021/03/29/irish-football-as-we-knew-it-is-dead/

Zak Flaps

I'd keep Kenny on for this campaign.
It's more important to work find out why Ireland don't produce nearly as many good footballers as we used to.
Something needs to change at ground level.
Start to build for the future.
Maybe try to get ex-coaches from some of the best academies around (e.g. Ajax) to help.

briany

Zak Flaps wrote: »

I'd keep Kenny on for this campaign.
It's more important to work find out why Ireland don't produce nearly as many good footballers as we used to.
Something needs to change at ground level.
Start to build for the future.
Maybe try to get ex-coaches from some of the best academies around (e.g. Ajax) to help.

Serious money needs to be put into the domestic Irish leagues first and foremost. It's sad that the main mooted alternative to lads going to England for a game is to go to the continent instead. If there's a league where native Austrians or Danes mainly play in to a reasonably high level, why not in Ireland?

I know that this will never happen, but football fans in this country should be prioritising their local LoI team over any allegiance to what's happening in foreign leagues in foreign countries, England included. The attitude some people have of, "You couldn't pay *me* to watch that sh*te!" is a part of the problem. It might not be as attractive a brand of football, but better attendances at those games helps the revenue stream which helps just about every aspect of the clubs' performance. Obviously, this is after the pandemic ends where people can actually get out to these games in numbers.

On top of that having someone like Denis O' Brien coming along to invest in some of these clubs wouldn't be bad, either, instead of paying half the wages of an overpaid national manager. The results mightn't be immediate but they'd be longer-lasting.

ittakestwo

FAI should try something radical and copy the GAA all Ireland. Every county lines out a team that competes in annual cup style competition.

Fr Tod Umptious

ittakestwo wrote: »

FAI should try something radical and copy the GAA all Ireland. Every county lines out a team that competes in annual cup style competition.

No
The GAA inter county system is over 100 years old, and has evolved over that 100 years.

You can't just apply it to another sport and hope it works.

Plus the GAA system is built on very strong local roots.
Even in places that never have a chance of winning two intercounty matches in a season let alone an All Ireland you have a strong local club structure.

You don't have that in soccer.

Fr Tod Umptious

CrowdedHouse wrote: »

A good read

http://ourmaninstockholm.com/2021/03/29/irish-football-as-we-knew-it-is-dead/

To be honest it reads more like a boards.ie rant than anything of substance.
He says that Denmark have a good league and conclusion is that the FAI are corrupt and need to be taken apart root and branch.
No s**t Sherlock.

LuckyLloyd

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Posted similar in another thread.
Less than 10 years ago, we needed goals in the 89th and 90th minute to beat Kazakhstan (ranked 142nd) after being 1-0 down for most of the game. Two years ago, it was an own goal and an injury time second goal to beat Gibraltar (ranked 196th) at home. We only won the reverse fixture 1-0 and had Randolph to thank for not going behind in that game. Our last four games against Georgia (ranked at a similar level to Luxembourg now) have seen us come away with two uninspiring 1-0 wins at home and two draws away from home (one was the infamous game where we had 25% possession at one point). So we have not been "much better" than the Luxembourgs of the world for some time now.
We do not have the quality, especially up front, to put these sorts of teams to the sword with ease anymore. On a related note, I remember a sizeable portion of Irish fans criticizing Robbie Keane over the last 5-10 years of his international career and even belittling his scoring achievements by saying he "only scores against bad teams". Jaysus, what we wouldn't give to have a forward who can score like that again.

But we nearly always got the result. And when we didn't, like in the 96, 04, 08 or 14 campaigns the manager was sacked.

Under Trapp, O'Neill and McCarthy we didn't drop a single point against 5th or 6th seeds, and had an exemplary record against 4th seeds both home and away for the most part.

Just because they weren't pretty fails to take away from the fact that they were results just the same.

noodler wrote: »

It's nonsense to explain away every achievement the various teams have made over the last 20 years.

People didn't like bore draws against better opposition? Well fair enough, bit it beats the hell out of losing to them like we did in Serbia.

But we've never lost, to my recollection, a game to a lower seed at home.

The committed effort to denigrate the achievements of the team so that Kenny is absolved of any expectations is painful.

briany wrote: »

It's happened at least twice that I can recall. Ireland were 1st seeds in Euro 96 qualifying and lost home and away to Austria 3-1. Also, were beaten by the Swiss at home in Euro 2004 qualifying who were 3rd seeds to Ireland's 1st.

But we may have never lost at home to a team that far down the rankings from Ireland.

Time will tell on this because Luxembourg might go on to upset the other teams in this group, and if that happens, then the result at the weekend won't seem so bad. But if, on the other hand, Luxembourg are dispatched by the other teams, it'll really give a bleak perspective.

Anyone watching the game on Saturday will see that it was winnable. Fair play to them, they played the game of their lives and took full advantage of how soft we were on the night. But they were fully beatable. If we were better structured with a more coherent game plan and better tactical decisions in the second half we could have won.

This noise about 'well we have no right to beat Luxembourg' is absolute waffle. It doesn't stack up historically and it doesn't stack up based what happened on the pitch at the weekend.

kksaints

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

But we nearly always got the result. And when we didn't, like in the 96, 04, 08 or 14 campaigns the manager was sacked.

Under Trapp, O'Neill and McCarthy we didn't drop a single point against 5th or 6th seeds, and had an exemplary record against 4th seeds both home and away for the most part.

Just because they weren't pretty fails to take away from the fact that they were results just the same.



The committed effort to denigrate the achievements of the team so that Kenny is absolved of any expectations is painful.



Anyone watching the game on Saturday will see that it was winnable. Fair play to them, they played the game of their lives and took full advantage of how soft we were on the night. But they were fully beatable. If we were better structured with a more coherent game plan and better tactical decisions in the second half we could have won.

This noise about 'well we have no right to beat Luxembourg' is absolute waffle. It doesn't stack up historically and it doesn't stack up based what happened on the pitch at the weekend.

We dropped a number of points to 5th and 6th seeds under Trap and O'Neill. In 2010 qualifying we drew twice with the 6th seeds. In 2018 qualifying we drew with the 6th seeds again.

partyguinness

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Anyone watching the game on Saturday will see that it was winnable. Fair play to them, they played the game of their lives and took full advantage of how soft we were on the night. But they were fully beatable. If we were better structured with a more coherent game plan and better tactical decisions in the second half we could have won.

This noise about 'well we have no right to beat Luxembourg' is absolute waffle. It doesn't stack up historically and it doesn't stack up based what happened on the pitch at the weekend.

I disagree. No team has a 'right' to beat anyone. You have to go out and earn it and do the job. History doesnt mean jack ****.

1. Every game no matter the opposition is winnable
2. Every opponent no matter who is fully beatable

- Could have, should have buts and ifs...but we didnt and that is the reality.
- Are the ROI 'expected' to go and beat Luxembourg. Yes absolutely and so do the majoirty of teams in Europe. We didn't. Why? Because they were not good enough on the night.

My focus is on the players more so than Kenny. A team that is good enough should have the nous and the ability to win a game against inferior opposition regardless of the manager. They should know how to win games- but they don't and that is no surprise when you look at the personal. Most of the players are battling relegation.

The players are not good enough- they are not even stand out league players let alone international quality.

ROI have now gone 10 games without a win. It is going to be a few very painful years ahead.

weadick

kksaints wrote: »

We dropped a number of points to 5th and 6th seeds under Trap and O'Neill. In 2010 qualifying we drew twice with the 6th seeds. In 2018 qualifying we drew with the 6th seeds again.

In 2010 the sixth seed was Montenegro which was inexplicable, they were an exceptionally strong sixth seed.

Ireland actually have a good record against fourth, fifth and sixth seeded nations. When we have qualified for tournaments or play offs in the past we have done so by beating the lesser teams like Cyprus, Georgia, Moldova, Estonia whereas many of our rivals dropped points against them.

Ferris_Bueller

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

But we nearly always got the result. And when we didn't, like in the 96, 04, 08 or 14 campaigns the manager was sacked.

Under Trapp, O'Neill and McCarthy we didn't drop a single point against 5th or 6th seeds, and had an exemplary record against 4th seeds both home and away for the most part.

Just because they weren't pretty fails to take away from the fact that they were results just the same.



The committed effort to denigrate the achievements of the team so that Kenny is absolved of any expectations is painful.



Anyone watching the game on Saturday will see that it was winnable. Fair play to them, they played the game of their lives and took full advantage of how soft we were on the night. But they were fully beatable. If we were better structured with a more coherent game plan and better tactical decisions in the second half we could have won.

This noise about 'well we have no right to beat Luxembourg' is absolute waffle. It doesn't stack up historically and it doesn't stack up based what happened on the pitch at the weekend.

Just after having a look through previous qualifying campaigns there, our record against lower seeds isn't as brilliant as you would think. Only twice since 1998 have we taken full points off lower seeds and that was in 2002 and 2012, two tournaments we qualified for.

Obviously our own seeding has changed too which skews things a bit but still, we have had plenty of poor results against Georgia, Montenegro, Israel, Cyrpus, Albania, Iceland, Macedonia over the years. Losing to Luxembourg is up there with the worst of them but it's not completely out of the blue.

Obviously a very poor start to this campaign and it's hard to see things getting much better with Portugal still to play twice, but this is by far the weakest Ireland team we have had in 30+ years. McCarthy got off to a very rocky start in his first campaign with with a loss to Macedonia, and two draws to poor Iceland and Lithuania teams. In the end he produced our best ever qualification campaign and a good showing at the World Cup. Kenny at least deserves until the end of these qualifiers to show us that he is worth sticking with.

LuckyLloyd

kksaints wrote: »

We dropped a number of points to 5th and 6th seeds under Trap and O'Neill. In 2010 qualifying we drew twice with the 6th seeds. In 2018 qualifying we drew with the 6th seeds again.

Jaysus there's some level of straw clutching at play, but fine - you are technically correct. I forgot that Montenegro were unusually 6th seeds in that group - Cyprus were 4th and Georgia 5th, who we beat twice.

In the 2012 campaign Armenia were 3rd seeds (beat them twice); Slovakia were 4th seeds (drew with them twice); Macedonia were 5th seeds (beat them twice); Andorra were 6th seeds (beat them twice)

In the 2014 campaign Kazakhstan were 5th seeds (beat them twice); and Faroe Islands were 6th seeds (beat them twice)

In the 2016 campaign Georgia were 5th seeds (beat them twice); and Gibraltar were 6th seeds (beat them twice)

In the 2018 campaign Wales were 3rd seeds (drew at home, beat them away); Austria were 4th seeds (drew at home, beat them away); Georgia were 5th seeds (beat at home, drew away); Moldova were 6th seeds (beat them twice)

In the 2020 campaign Denmark were 2nd seeds (drew with them twice) Georgia were 4th seeds (beat them at home, drew away) and Gibraltar were 6th seeds (beat them twice)

You can nitpick at my statements, that's fine. But when I write out the full record the reality is that losing to Luxembourg shouldn't be on the radar or considered a likelihood for an Irish side. I couldn't give a **** about Stephen Kenny's footballing "ideology" if it makes us less competitive. And when you review the record in detail, it's fairly clear that Ireland have been competitive in qualifying inspite of an ever declining playing pool.

If he can't maintain that competitiveness then his contract won't be renewed (and he won't make it to the end of that contract if he doesn't get results in the remaining games against Luxembourg and Azerbaijan).

LuckyLloyd

partyguinness wrote: »

I disagree. No team has a 'right' to beat anyone. You have to go out and earn it and do the job. History doesnt mean jack ****.

1. Every game no matter the opposition is winnable
2. Every opponent no matter who is fully beatable

- Could have, should have buts and ifs...but we didnt and that is the reality.
- Are the ROI 'expected' to go and beat Luxembourg. Yes absolutely and so do the majoirty of teams in Europe. We didn't. Why? Because they were not good enough on the night.

My focus is on the players more so than Kenny. A team that is good enough should have the nous and the ability to win a game against inferior opposition regardless of the manager. They should know how to win games- but they don't and that is no surprise when you look at the personal. Most of the players are battling relegation.

The players are not good enough- they are not even stand out league players let alone international quality.

ROI have now gone 10 games without a win. It is going to be a few very painful years ahead.

The players were badly coached on Saturday, and received sub optimal instruction during the second half. That is blatantly obvious to anyone who watched the game. Browne moved to right wing back? Half heartedly pressing sometimes, then not at others? Aimless slow passing with no incision or purpose? Come on now - that's on the manager.

eagle eye

Fr Tod Umptious wrote:

No The GAA inter county system is over 100 years old, and has evolved over that 100 years.

You can't just apply it to another sport and hope it works.

Plus the GAA system is built on very strong local roots. Even in places that never have a chance of winning two intercounty matches in a season let alone an All Ireland you have a strong local club structure.

You don't have that in soccer.

Because of what the GAA has done there's a county pride thing everywhere.
Soccer can easily hone in on that.
A couple of defeats to your biggest rival county would make people want to get involved and turn things around.

noodler

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Jaysus there's some level of straw clutching at play, but fine - you are technically correct. I forgot that Montenegro were unusually 6th seeds in that group - Cyprus were 4th and Georgia 5th, who we beat twice.

In the 2012 campaign Armenia were 3rd seeds (beat them twice); Slovakia were 4th seeds (drew with them twice); Macedonia were 5th seeds (beat them twice); Andorra were 6th seeds (beat them twice)

In the 2014 campaign Kazakhstan were 5th seeds (beat them twice); and Faroe Islands were 6th seeds (beat them twice)

In the 2016 campaign Georgia were 5th seeds (beat them twice); and Gibraltar were 6th seeds (beat them twice)

In the 2018 campaign Wales were 3rd seeds (drew at home, beat them away); Austria were 4th seeds (drew at home, beat them away); Georgia were 5th seeds (beat at home, drew away); Moldova were 6th seeds (beat them twice)

In the 2020 campaign Denmark were 2nd seeds (drew with them twice) Georgia were 4th seeds (beat them at home, drew away) and Gibraltar were 6th seeds (beat them twice)

You can nitpick at my statements, that's fine. But when I write out the full record the reality is that losing to Luxembourg shouldn't be on the radar or considered a likelihood for an Irish side. I couldn't give a **** about Stephen Kenny's footballing "ideology" if it makes us less competitive. And when you review the record in detail, it's fairly clear that Ireland have been competitive in qualifying inspite of an ever declining playing pool.

If he can't maintain that competitiveness then his contract won't be renewed (and he won't make it to the end of that contract if he doesn't get results in the remaining games against Luxembourg and Azerbaijan).

I was in the process of typing this up to put the silly revisionism to bed.

Thanks for taking the time.

The_Kew_Tour

Sack the manager by all means, but we will still be having these conversations in next decade.

If you think the biggest problem in Irish football is Kenny then **** me you're in for fair misery for long time to come.

Who is up next Neil Lennon? Ya work away till be fine.

JKerova1

KungPao wrote: »

Our slide into becoming little more than minnows is harder to take when you see how England are doing. I know they aren’t super technical and a bit light in midfield but those bastards could go on and win the World Cup!

Although their manager could with an upgrade.

We were arguably stronger than them in the early 90s.

I'd argue 2002-era Ireland would also have been as good as if not better than England at the time. We had plenty of players (Keane, Given, Finnan, Carr, Duff) who would have made their first 11.

Hammer Archer

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

But we nearly always got the result. And when we didn't, like in the 96, 04, 08 or 14 campaigns the manager was sacked.

Under Trapp, O'Neill and McCarthy we didn't drop a single point against 5th or 6th seeds, and had an exemplary record against 4th seeds both home and away for the most part.

Just because they weren't pretty fails to take away from the fact that they were results just the same.



The committed effort to denigrate the achievements of the team so that Kenny is absolved of any expectations is painful.



Anyone watching the game on Saturday will see that it was winnable. Fair play to them, they played the game of their lives and took full advantage of how soft we were on the night. But they were fully beatable. If we were better structured with a more coherent game plan and better tactical decisions in the second half we could have won.

This noise about 'well we have no right to beat Luxembourg' is absolute waffle. It doesn't stack up historically and it doesn't stack up based what happened on the pitch at the weekend.

But you said that we were "much better than the Luxembourgs of the world" until Stephen Kenny took charge! But the reality is, we weren't. If we were, we'd be beating 4th, 5th and 6th seeds out the gate each time. But as I've already explained, we've been scraping wins or getting boring draws against these teams with much better squads for 10 years now. It was 2015 when we last won a competitive game by more that 2 goals (that was 4-0 against Gibraltar in their first ever qualifying campaign).
Looking back on the matches I mentioned, in the 2018 qualifying campaign, we drew with Georgia who were 6th seeds and ranked below 150 at the time. Scotland beat us in Euro 2016 qualifiers and they were also 4th seeds like Luxembourg are this time (we were second seeds). I'm not absolving Kenny of any blame, but it's pure nonsense for you to state that were way better than these teams and it's only since Kenny came along that we've struggled. Over the past 10-15 or so, we've seen comfortable wins turn to narrow wins before turning to draws. It was only a matter of time, regardless of manager, before a result like Saturday's occurred.

LuckyLloyd

Hammer Archer wrote: »

But you said that we were "much better than the Luxembourgs of the world" until Stephen Kenny took charge! But the reality is, we weren't. If we were, we'd be beating 4th, 5th and 6th seeds out the gate each time. But as I've already explained, we've been scraping wins or getting boring draws against these teams with much better squads for 10 years now. It was 2015 when we last won a competitive game by more that 2 goals (that was 4-0 against Gibraltar in their first ever qualifying campaign).
Looking back on the matches I mentioned, in the 2018 qualifying campaign, we drew with Georgia who were 6th seeds and ranked below 150 at the time. Scotland beat us in Euro 2016 qualifiers and they were also 4th seeds like Luxembourg are this time (we were second seeds). I'm not absolving Kenny of any blame, but it's pure nonsense for you to state that were way better than these teams and it's only since Kenny came along that we've struggled. Over the past 10-15 or so, we've seen comfortable wins turn to narrow wins before turning to draws. It was only a matter of time, regardless of manager, before a result like Saturday's occurred.

I've typed out the record above. If the position is 'well we weren't impressive in getting those results' fair enough - a result is a result. But the position can't be 'we haven't been getting results in these games'. That is unsupported by the record, no matter how much cherrypicking is attempted by Kenny apologists.

johnnyryan89

Hammer Archer wrote: »

But you said that we were "much better than the Luxembourgs of the world" until Stephen Kenny took charge! But the reality is, we weren't. If we were, we'd be beating 4th, 5th and 6th seeds out the gate each time. But as I've already explained, we've been scraping wins or getting boring draws against these teams with much better squads for 10 years now. It was 2015 when we last won a competitive game by more that 2 goals (that was 4-0 against Gibraltar in their first ever qualifying campaign).
Looking back on the matches I mentioned, in the 2018 qualifying campaign, we drew with Georgia who were 6th seeds and ranked below 150 at the time. Scotland beat us in Euro 2016 qualifiers and they were also 4th seeds like Luxembourg are this time (we were second seeds). I'm not absolving Kenny of any blame, but it's pure nonsense for you to state that were way better than these teams and it's only since Kenny came along that we've struggled. Over the past 10-15 or so, we've seen comfortable wins turn to narrow wins before turning to draws. It was only a matter of time, regardless of manager, before a result like Saturday's occurred.

https://twitter.com/FutsalFinn/status/1376836574407753731

From the article:

"In Ireland’s last 33 competitive fixtures they have scored more than once just five times. Twice away to Serbia, once at home to Gibraltar, once at home to Moldova and once away to Moldova. The away game against the Moldovans in 2016 was the only time they scored three goals in a competitive match in that period."

Wednesday nights result shouldn't be that much of a shock really. We've been on the decline for a few years now, and it shows when players like Walters, McGoldrick and Wes aren't around.

Hammer Archer

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I've typed out the record above. If the position is 'well we weren't impressive in getting those results' fair enough - a result is a result. But the position can't be 'we haven't been getting results in these games'. That is unsupported by the record, no matter how much cherrypicking is attempted by Kenny apologists.

But your point was we were much better than fourth seeds (and below) before Kenny came along. The fact is, we haven't been. We've been scraping results along with a few draws and losses for a long time now. If we were much better, we would have been getting 3+ goal victories regularly. And generally the poor results have been getting more and more frequent as the years go on coupled with the players we have available getting worse. I'm not a "Kenny apologist", but I do have an issue with this revisionist outlook from some Irish supporters that everything was fine and dandy before he took over and we were beating lower ranked opposition with ease before now.

johnnyryan89 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/FutsalFinn/status/1376836574407753731

From the article:

"In Ireland’s last 33 competitive fixtures they have scored more than once just five times. Twice away to Serbia, once at home to Gibraltar, once at home to Moldova and once away to Moldova. The away game against the Moldovans in 2016 was the only time they scored three goals in a competitive match in that period."

Wednesday nights result shouldn't be that much of a shock really. We've been on the decline for a few years now, and it shows when players like Walters, McGoldrick and Wes aren't around.

Unsurprisingly, it has been 5 years since a certain record goalscorer of ours retired.

Did you smash it

johnnyryan89 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/FutsalFinn/status/1376836574407753731

From the article:

"In Ireland’s last 33 competitive fixtures they have scored more than once just five times. Twice away to Serbia, once at home to Gibraltar, once at home to Moldova and once away to Moldova. The away game against the Moldovans in 2016 was the only time they scored three goals in a competitive match in that period."

Wednesday nights result shouldn't be that much of a shock really. We've been on the decline for a few years now, and it shows when players like Walters, McGoldrick and Wes aren't around.

More than once is a handy barometer for the writer if he’s trying a pro Kenny slant. Problem is we always usually scored once under previous managers. Under Kenny that has dropped to scoring in 20% of our matches. A goal for Kenny’s Ireland feels like a real bolt from the blue

~Rebel~

johnnyryan89 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/FutsalFinn/status/1376836574407753731

From the article:

"In Ireland’s last 33 competitive fixtures they have scored more than once just five times. Twice away to Serbia, once at home to Gibraltar, once at home to Moldova and once away to Moldova. The away game against the Moldovans in 2016 was the only time they scored three goals in a competitive match in that period."

Wednesday nights result shouldn't be that much of a shock really. We've been on the decline for a few years now, and it shows when players like Walters, McGoldrick and Wes aren't around.

Indeed... there's been a growing trend in recent years, and Luxembourg was just the next step of it. Draws with Georgia in the last 2 campaigns point towards a narrowing gap of quality between us and the tier below... with a draw you're only one moment away from a loss. So it's not too much of a surprise that the only forward (or indeed player) on the pitch that has played at Champions League level proved to be the difference with a great strike.

In terms of labels - "Ireland V Luxembourg" sounds like one thing, but "Dynamo Kyiv forward scores against Rochdale Keeper" sounds like another. That's obviously flippant, as Buzanu had a really good game and likely has a bright future, but the difference between this game and games like the Georgia draws in the past, is that they had a player in Rodrigues who was different class and could pull off a moment of quality.

The other difference is home V away, but as I said before, I don't see any 'home' advantage in the current context. There are some benefits still at club level, but none that I can see at international level, where you're still flying in same as the away team, and playing in a ground you only play in 3 or 4 times a year - max - so don't exactly have beneficial familiarity with it, and have no fans to make a difference..

noodler

Hammer Archer wrote: »

But your point was we were much better than fourth seeds (and below) before Kenny came along. The fact is, we haven't been. We've been scraping results along with a few draws and losses for a long time now. If we were much better, we would have been getting 3+ goal victories regularly. And generally the poor results have been getting more and more frequent as the years go on coupled with the players we have available getting worse. I'm not a "Kenny apologist", but I do have an issue with this revisionist outlook from some Irish supporters that everything was fine and dandy before he took over and we were beating lower ranked opposition with ease before now.


Unsurprisingly, it has been 5 years since a certain record goalscorer of ours retired.

I think you have trouble with reading. It's been laid out quite early that we have been diaptching lower seeds quite consistently.

Beechwoodspark

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Cas did not view the result as a real shock.

He called Clark Luxembourg's best player, and criticised Browne.
Plus said by a country mile this is Ireland's worst team for the last 30/40 years.

I liked cascarino as a player.

Never rated him as an analyst or pundit.

Hammer Archer

noodler wrote: »

I think you have trouble with reading. It's been laid out quite early that we have been diaptching lower seeds quite consistently.

No trouble with reading, thanks for the concern. The poster said that we were much better than lower sides before Kenny came along. The results and the performances over the last 5 years say otherwise.

noodler

Hammer Archer wrote: »

No trouble with reading, thanks for the concern. The poster said that we were much better than lower sides before Kenny came along. The results and the performances over the last 5 years say otherwise.

No, they don't say that.

It's been posted for you in incredible detail.

We have been very consistent against lower sides for decades.

Wtf is the confusion here? Pointing out the odd exception or the rare occasions some strong nations were seeded below doesn't change the clear facts.

ittakestwo

eagle eye wrote: »

Because of what the GAA has done there's a county pride thing everywhere.
Soccer can easily hone in on that.
A couple of defeats to your biggest rival county would make people want to get involved and turn things around.

That would be the reasoning. FAI take advantage of the county rivalry that the GAA have created in sport.

The problem with the domestic league in this country is that it is predominantly supported by the lower class. The national team or premiership teams is supported by a much wider demographic. This is a hard thing to break for the FAI to grow football here.

A lot of people get behind a Dublin GAA football side and alot of these supporters are also football fans but wont go to a LOI match ever. However if there was a football team representing their county would most people not support it to some degree.

Hammer Archer

noodler wrote: »

No, they don't say that.

It's been posted for you in incredible detail.

We have been very consistent against lower sides for decades.

Wtf is the confusion here? Pointing out the odd exception or the rare occasions some strong nations were seeded below doesn't change the clear facts.

Yes, they did say that.

partyguinness wrote: »

Are the ROI really that much better than the Luxembourgs of the world?

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Yes. Or, at least, we were until Stephen Kenny took charge.

Maybe you see regular draws against lower teams or needing own goals to beat bottom seeds as being "much better" than those teams, but in reality, the gap between us and teams historically considered weaker than us has been narrowing for the guts of a decade now.

elefant

noodler wrote: »

No, they don't say that.

It's been posted for you in incredible detail.

Do you really reckon that scoring two goals ourselves in 2 games against Gibraltar and consistently struggling against Georgia really shows that we were much better than weaker sides before Stephen Kenny took over? Moldova are the only team we've looked much better than in the best part of a decade.

elefant

elefant wrote: »

Do you really reckon that scoring two goals ourselves in 2 games against Gibraltar and consistently struggling against Georgia really shows that we were much better than weaker sides before Stephen Kenny took over? Moldova are the only team we've looked much better than in the best part of a decade.

We've qualified for two European championships in the last decade. So we were competitive. Let's not rewrite history.

We will not qualify for any under Stephen Kenny.

noodler

elefant wrote: »

Do you really reckon that scoring two goals ourselves in 2 games against Gibraltar and consistently struggling against Georgia really shows that we were much better than weaker sides before Stephen Kenny took over? Moldova are the only team we've looked much better than in the best part of a decade.

Go back to LuckyLoyd's post. He outlined the detail rather than cherry picking two games against Gilbraltar.

partyguinness

I suppose it is worth noting that Luxembourg with 1-0 up against Portugal last night but ultimately Portugal won 1-3 so that is all that matters.

elefant

noodler wrote: »

Go back to LuckyLoyd's post. He outlined the detail rather than cherry picking two games against Gilbraltar.

I'm talking about ALL our games against weaker opposition since 2016. Gibraltar, Georgia, Luxembourg. We've struggled against all of those. That's not cherry picking, it's every single game competitive game since 2016 that wasn't against Moldova.