Derek Chauvin murder trial (George Floyd)

circadian

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Unfortunate what happened, trying to restrain a man that size who is high on stimulants would be problematic for anyone. Hopefully his mistake doesn't see him behind bars for life.

Ah yes, kneeling on his neck was the only appropriate way to restrain him with several officers around.

punisher5112 wrote: »

Absolutely crazy mentality over in the states, such a weird culture to kill, riot and kill......

Nuts.

The guy was a career criminal, he was off his face on drugs which they believe he took as soon as cops showed up. They called for medical as they knew he wasn't right, he wouldn't comply, many a officer has been shot and killed even by one in hand cuffs.

He was most likely going to die either way

Career criminal, sure its grand he died as a result of malpractice. Also, was he on drugs at the time or did he drop them when the cops arrived? If he dropped when the cops arrived then that'd some speed of coming up.

Jesus christ boards. What is going on? Like, a guy dies in police custody as a direct result of malpractice and what I'd imagine an infringement on his basic human rights and people are trying to defend it?

It doesn't matter if he was a criminal. It doesn't matter if he was on drugs. It doesn't matter if they needed to restrain him. For real like, intentionally or not, that cop murdered him and those that stood by and let it happen are just as guilty.

ELM327

circadian wrote: »

Ah yes, kneeling on his neck was the only appropriate way to restrain him with several officers around.




Career criminal, sure its grand he died as a result of malpractice. Also, was he on drugs at the time or did he drop them when the cops arrived? If he dropped when the cops arrived then that'd some speed of coming up.

Jesus christ boards. What is going on? Like, a guy dies in police custody as a direct result of malpractice and what I'd imagine an infringement on his basic human rights and people are trying to defend it?

It doesn't matter if he was a criminal. It doesn't matter if he was on drugs. It doesn't matter if they needed to restrain him. For real like, intentionally or not, that cop murdered him and those that stood by and let it happen are just as guilty.

Trial by social media continues.

circadian

ELM327 wrote: »

Trial by social media continues.

Does it? What would you call it then? If I were to kneel on your neck until you died, would that not be murder?

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

Trial by social media continues.

It's almost like there's a video of it happening or something...

Right lads, can't watch a video of the incident and have an opinion on the blatantly obvious. That's "trial by social media" apparently.

Necro

Mod: the dunne's threadban lifted after discussion with poster

Granadino

Why are Irish people getting riled up over this anyhow?

Eric Cartman

Granadino wrote: »

Why are Irish people getting riled up over this anyhow?

We’re all in lockdown, worldwide current affairs are totally up for discussion.

Also sadly the twitterati have imported american current affairs as justification for protests here , there is quite a likelihood that any reasonable outcome to this will cause a superspreader riot to kick off here, further damaging businesses and increasing covid cases. So its suddenly an issue for the irish people.

ELM327

circadian wrote: »

Does it? What would you call it then? If I were to kneel on your neck until you died, would that not be murder?

If I were a career criminal, high on multiple narcotics, you were a police officer and I had resisted arrest, I would not consider that murder. Neither does the law of the land.

ELM327

Granadino wrote: »

Why are Irish people getting riled up over this anyhow?

A lot of the superspreaders/"protestors" joined the illegal BLM mob here too. We're very much a global society these days, at least the western hemisphere, like it or not.

walshb

Granadino wrote: »

Why are Irish people getting riled up over this anyhow?

It’s a massive global case...of course you will have some keen interest..

We are all so much more connected now all over the world.

MrStuffins

ELM327 wrote: »

If I were a career criminal, high on multiple narcotics, you were a police officer and I had resisted arrest, I would not consider that murder. Neither does the law of the land.

You admit earlier in the thread that Mr. Chauvin killed Mr. Floyd.

If you think that your descriptions of him as "career criminal" and him being high on narcotics give someone the right to kill that person, you're not right!

KB1980

penny piper wrote: »

The prosecution seems to be coming up with very poor credible witnesses.... now interviewing 4 minors (at the time of the incident) second one was a 9/10 year old ...it was quite clear she was been led by the prosecution lawyer .....there's no way this guy will get a fair trial...defense lawyer is doing a better job today than on the second witness...

The point of interviewing younger witnesses is to show that the defence argument that the crowd were a 'mob' and that the police were in fear for their lives is incorrect so it was an effective move by the prosecution.

KB1980

DerekC16 wrote: »

That man was a violent junkie criminal.

And that police office is a violent criminal ( criminal because he murdered someone he was supposed to show a duty of care to).

circadian

ELM327 wrote: »

If I were a career criminal, high on multiple narcotics, you were a police officer and I had resisted arrest, I would not consider that murder. Neither does the law of the land.

Alright, I'll bite on this one. Its clearly murder. Without a doubt. There are many ways to incapacitate or restrain someone without kneeling on their neck and ignoring their pleas.

The law does not dictate that a police officer has the right to kill someone because they are a criminal, or on drugs, or that they are resisting arrest. Nowhere is that in the "law of the land".

I can understand his resistance to arrest. There is clearly an issue in America, and in particular this city, of excessive force used on minorities.

I grew up in the Bogside during the Troubles, I'm mixed race. The amount of **** I heard from both British soldiers and the RUC was disgusting. I was goaded as a teenager, they wanted me to step out of line, anything at all, just so they could come down hard on the little "****** Paddy" as I was so often called.

I see absolutely no reason to believe the forces in America are in any way different.

walshb

circadian wrote: »

Alright, I'll bite on this one. Its clearly murder. Without a doubt. There are many ways to incapacitate or restrain someone without kneeling on their neck and ignoring their pleas.

The law does not dictate that a police officer has the right to kill someone because they are a criminal, or on drugs, or that they are resisting arrest. Nowhere is that in the "law of the land".

I can understand his resistance to arrest. There is clearly an issue in America, and in particular this city, of excessive force used on minorities.

I grew up in the Bogside during the Troubles, I'm mixed race. The amount of **** I heard from both British soldiers and the RUC was disgusting. I was goaded as a teenager, they wanted me to step out of line, anything at all, just so they could come down hard on the little "****** Paddy" as I was so often called.

I see absolutely no reason to believe the forces in America are in any way different.

Eh, for the record. The cops didn’t seek George out here. He sought them out...

And people who resist arrest should expect to be challenged, and possibly worse..

I think Chauvin went OTT here, but George created the incident...

circadian

walshb wrote: »

Eh, for the record. The cops didn’t seek George out here. He sought them out...

And people who resist arrest should expect to be challenged, and possibly worse..

I think Chauvin went OTT here, but George created the incident...

Alright, so even if he created the incident. As the supposed person in control, Chauvin clearly went far beyond self control and this resulted in the death of someone in his custody. Regardless of the victims background or anything else. Its as simple as that, his behaviour and ignorance of Floyd's pleas led directly to the death of someone that could so easily be avoided.

BattleCorp

circadian wrote: »

Alright, I'll bite on this one. Its clearly murder. Without a doubt. There are many ways to incapacitate or restrain someone without kneeling on their neck and ignoring their pleas.

It might not be murder. Kneeling on someone's kneck is an acceptable way of restraining someone in Minneapolis. At least it was until the Floyd incident. If the cop was restraining him as per police training, that might lessen the likelihood of it being murder. If the drugs in Floyd's system restricted his breathing further, then this also would lessen the likelihood of it being murder.

There's plenty of evidence still to be heard before we can say 100% that it was murder.

The law does not dictate that a police officer has the right to kill someone because they are a criminal, or on drugs, or that they are resisting arrest. Nowhere is that in the "law of the land".

A police officer doesn't have the right to kill anyone. What they do have is the right to protect themselves and others and sometimes this means they have to use force. They can also use force when making an arrest if the person resists.

Did Chauvin use too much force? I can't say for sure. I'll wait to see what the court decides.

I can understand his resistance to arrest. There is clearly an issue in America, and in particular this city, of excessive force used on minorities.

This is dumb. If the authorities are likely to use excessive force on minorities, you'd expect that the minorities would suffer less if the didn't resist arrest.

I grew up in the Bogside during the Troubles, I'm mixed race. The amount of **** I heard from both British soldiers and the RUC was disgusting. I was goaded as a teenager, they wanted me to step out of line, anything at all, just so they could come down hard on the little "****** Paddy" as I was so often called.

I see absolutely no reason to believe the forces in America are in any way different.

You grew up hating the police. Your views are especially biased so.

If the court found Chauvin not guilty, would you support that decision?

penny piper

circadian wrote: »

Alright, I'll bite on this one. Its clearly murder. Without a doubt. There are many ways to incapacitate or restrain someone without kneeling on their neck and ignoring their pleas.

The law does not dictate that a police officer has the right to kill someone because they are a criminal, or on drugs, or that they are resisting arrest. Nowhere is that in the "law of the land".

I can understand his resistance to arrest. There is clearly an issue in America, and in particular this city, of excessive force used on minorities.

I grew up in the Bogside during the Troubles, I'm mixed race. The amount of **** I heard from both British soldiers and the RUC was disgusting

Where's the evidence this was a racist crime? george floyd was a criminal been restrained....the police in minneapolis have always (unfortunately) used this technique of restraining people.... which is considered dangerous....Chauvan like everyone else is innocent until proven guilty.....

Biker79

Drug addicts are known to plead poor health in order to resist/ sabotage being arrested. You see it from time to time in Dublin city centre,

It makes sense, in terms of procedure, to take a dim view of those pleas because they are almost always dishonest and the result of intoxication.

Chauvins problem was how bad the first video looked. When the rest of the video came to light, the context became clearer and his actions - while tough with a sad outcome - became more understandable.

What's clear to me is the incredibly fine line American officers have to navigate when dealing with known violent criminals who are intoxicated and resisting arrest.

What's also clear was how much the incident was manipulated by not showing the full video.

MrStuffins

Biker79 wrote: »

What's clear to me is the incredibly fine line American officers have to navigate when dealing with known violent criminals who are intoxicated and resisting arrest.

A line that Mr.Chauvin crossed by killing Mr.Floyd.

punisher5112

MrStuffins wrote: »

A line that Mr.Chauvin crossed by killing Mr.Floyd.

Pity Floyd hadn't as much compassion as you do towards him for him towards those he terrorised.....

MrStuffins

punisher5112 wrote: »

Pity Floyd hadn't as much compassion as you do towards him for him towards those he terrorised.....

So you're suggesting Mr. Chauvin took this into consideration when killing him?

That would make it murder

BorneTobyWilde

Biker79 wrote: »

What's also clear was how much the incident was manipulated by not showing the full video.

WHat full video. I think everyone saw what happened. What went on before is not important

punisher5112

MrStuffins wrote: »

So you're suggesting Mr. Chauvin took this into consideration when killing him?

That would make it murder

No I watched all the video that were made available.

Also both knew eachother and he knew he was dangerous.

Jerrykay6

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

WHat full video. I think everyone saw what happened. What went on before is not important

Typical.. a very similar narrative to our own St George case, where people would also argue what happened before hand and his numerous attempts to stab officers on the scene are irrelevant. You just can't argue with smooth brains like this, it's a waste of energy.

Jerrykay6

Wouldn't it be fantastic if the woke crowd showed as much compassion to the innocent victims of career criminals as they do to the actual career criminals.

punisher5112

Jerrykay6 wrote: »

Wouldn't it be fantastic if the woke crowd showed as much compassion to the innocent victims of career criminals as they do to the actual career criminals.

Yes, we would be a lot safer for it....

To be honest social media is an absolute cess pool and creates more of these numpties.

They're extremely dangerous with their mad ideology.

Timberrrrrrrr

Chauvin used a similar technique before on a fourteen year old child, kneeling on him for seventeen minutes.

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/11/18/prosecutors-14yearold-boy-cried-mom-as-chauvin-knelt-on-his-back-for-17-minutes

The court filing says the child tried to talk with officers about his mother, but they yelled at him to stand up. The officers quickly grabbed him and Chauvin hit the child in the head with his flashlight.

Two seconds later, Chauvin grabbed the boy’s throat and struck him again in the head with the flashlight.

“The child cried out that they were hurting him, and to stop, and called out ‘mom,’” according to the filing.

Chauvin applied a neck restraint, causing the child to temporarily pass out and fall to the ground. The officers placed him in the prone position and handcuffed him behind his back while his mother pleaded with the officers not to kill her son and told her son to stop resisting. 

“About a minute after going to the ground, the child began repeatedly telling the officers that he could not breathe, and his mother told Chauvin to take his knee off her son,” prosecutors wrote. They added that the mother asked Chauvin to take his knee off her son four times because her son couldn’t breathe, but that Chauvin maintained his position and replied that her son, who Chauvin described as 6 feet, 2 inches tall and at least 240 pounds, was “a big guy.” 

Prosecutors say the body camera footage showed Chauvin was kneeling on the 14-year-old boy’s back for a total of 17 minutes despite repeated requests by the teenager to turn him on his back because he couldn’t breathe. 

MrStuffins

punisher5112 wrote: »

No I watched all the video that were made available.

Also both knew eachother and he knew he was dangerous.

So, you say Chauvin knew Floyd, thought he was dangerous and thought he was terrorising people and then killed him.

Again, that would be murder

punisher5112

MrStuffins wrote: »

So, you say Chauvin knew Floyd, thought he was dangerous and thought he was terrorising people and then killed him.

Again, that would be murder

Yes, yes and had done so and no on last one, drugs he ingested were put in autopsy results as very high, high enough to cause the health issues he died from, most likely, we weren't there.