Derek Chauvin murder trial (George Floyd)

ThewhiteJesus

George looks wasted in the shop beforehand it’s on sky news

Green Peter

startrek56 wrote: »

he kneeled on a mans neck for 9 minutes, he was probably dead after 6 or 7 of them and yet he stayed on top of him for another 2 or 3 minutes. he would have known at the time there was no force against his knee

he is guilty

George was saying he couldn't breathe as they put him sitting in the vehicle just before he kicked off resisting, he said he was caustophobic. The prosecutors ignored the findings of the coroner that the level of drugs were 3 times a fatal dose necessary to be in a person's system and still went with the charge to appease protestors and witheld that info. I believe the officer is being thrown under the bus to appease the black lives matter movement . Imo he died from excited delirium. Despite looking strong and fit he was in poor health. May no mistake he was a dangerous man with previous for violence who was resisting being put in the car. The knee on the neck was text book training, I believe the pressure was minimal but george was repeating what he said sitting in the car "I can't breathe" . At best chauvin was negligent in not recognizing quicker that he was unresponsive but the bystanders hassling him didn't help. I am prepared for the onslaught.

startrek56

Green Peter wrote: »

George was saying he couldn't breathe as they put him sitting in the vehicle just before he kicked off resisting, he said he was caustophobic. The prosecutors ignored the findings of the coroner that the level of drugs were 3 times a fatal dose necessary to be in a person's system and still went with the charge to appease protestors and witheld that info. I believe the officer is being thrown under the bus to appease the black lives matter movement . Imo he died from excited delirium. Despite looking strong and fit he was in poor health. May no mistake he was a dangerous man with previous for violence who was resisting being put in the car. The knee on the neck was text book training, I believe the pressure was minimal but george was repeating what he said sitting in the car "I can't breathe" . At best chauvin was negligent in not recognizing quicker that he was unresponsive but the bystanders hassling him didn't help. I am prepared for the onslaught.

it was fairly clear even on video he was not breathing/dead, cop should have known

BattleCorp

Green Peter wrote: »

George was saying he couldn't breathe as they put him sitting in the vehicle just before he kicked off resisting, he said he was caustophobic. The prosecutors ignored the findings of the coroner that the level of drugs were 3 times a fatal dose necessary to be in a person's system and still went with the charge to appease protestors and witheld that info. I believe the officer is being thrown under the bus to appease the black lives matter movement . Imo he died from excited delirium. Despite looking strong and fit he was in poor health. May no mistake he was a dangerous man with previous for violence who was resisting being put in the car. The knee on the neck was text book training, I believe the pressure was minimal but george was repeating what he said sitting in the car "I can't breathe" . At best chauvin was negligent in not recognizing quicker that he was unresponsive but the bystanders hassling him didn't help. I am prepared for the onslaught.

There's merit in your argument for sure, but I don't think I'd agree with you 100%.

The knee restraint technique was legal but I'm not sure it was textbook as he didn't check to see if Floyd was breathing nor did he move him once safe to do so to ensure breathing. That said, there may have been mitigating circumstances as to why he didn't do that, e.g. distracted by crowd shouting etc.

I do believe that the drugs played a role in Floyd's death as did his poor state of health.

penny piper

MrStuffins wrote: »

The race narrative has definitely been used by many of Mr Floyd's supporters.

But on the other hand, race is a very strong component with many of Mr. Chauvin's supporters also.

it's a double edged sword!

it's not a double edged sword at all....the case is about police brutality not about race......it's quite clear to anyone mr.floyd's supporters are using the race card not chauvins...

Even one of the witnesses (minor at the time) mentioned the fact she worried about it could have been her one of her family members father/uncle the fact they were black was mentioned ,,,,there was no need to mention that ....again race has been used ...the case shouldn't be used in this way....and no matter what happened this police officer is just been used as a scapegoat .....

Lundstram

Green Peter wrote: »

George was saying he couldn't breathe as they put him sitting in the vehicle just before he kicked off resisting, he said he was caustophobic. The prosecutors ignored the findings of the coroner that the level of drugs were 3 times a fatal dose necessary to be in a person's system and still went with the charge to appease protestors and witheld that info. I believe the officer is being thrown under the bus to appease the black lives matter movement . Imo he died from excited delirium. Despite looking strong and fit he was in poor health. May no mistake he was a dangerous man with previous for violence who was resisting being put in the car. The knee on the neck was text book training, I believe the pressure was minimal but george was repeating what he said sitting in the car "I can't breathe" . At best chauvin was negligent in not recognizing quicker that he was unresponsive but the bystanders hassling him didn't help. I am prepared for the onslaught.

I just watched the whole body cam video and I have to say it has changed my view on it a lot.

Thing that struck me the most was the sheer size of Floyd compared to the officers. He is a big man!

He is extremely erratic and unpredictable throughout the whole video. Most importantly, to me, he is saying he can't breathe numereous times while lying down in the back of the cop car and even calls for his Momma there too.

What was portrayed by a lot of media is he only says this while Chauvin's knee is on his neck.

Chauvin is still wrong, however, I don't believe he's the monster the media has portrayed him to be.

MrStuffins

penny piper wrote: »

it's not a double edged sword at all....the case is about police brutality not about race......it's quite clear to anyone mr.floyd's supporters are using the race card not chauvins...

Nah. There are definitely racial motivations on both sides. Whether you're willing to admit it or not.

MrStuffins

Lundstram wrote: »

Chauvin is still wrong, however, I don't believe he's the monster the media has portrayed him to be.

Just a quick one.

Do you agree that this was homicide and that Mr. Chauvin caused Mr. Floyd's death?

BattleCorp

MrStuffins wrote: »

Just a quick one.

Do you agree that this was homicide and that Mr. Chauvin caused Mr. Floyd's death?

You are really hung up on Chauvin causing Floyd's death. Here, if this makes you happy, I think Chauvin caused Floyd's death, in conjunction with drugs, poor health, dodgy police restraint techniques etc.

Even if Chauvin caused Floyd's death, that doesn't necessarily mean that Chauvin is guilty of anything. There are circumstances where causing someone's death isn't a criminal offence. I'm not saying this is one of them, but it's a possibility. You don't seem to be inclined to give Chauvin a fair bounce of the ball.

Lundstram

MrStuffins wrote: »

Just a quick one.

Do you agree that this was homicide and that Mr. Chauvin caused Mr. Floyd's death?

I actually don't know. Before I watched that video, I would have said manslaughter. I just don't know anymore.

It certainly isn't as cut and dried as some people want to make out.

The jury will have a very tough call.

MrStuffins

BattleCorp wrote: »

You are really hung up on Chauvin causing Floyd's death.

Yeah. Just as well it's not a murder trial!

walshb

BattleCorp wrote: »

You are really hung up on Chauvin causing Floyd's death. Here, if this makes you happy, I think Chauvin caused Floyd's death, in conjunction with drugs, poor health, dodgy police restraint techniques etc.

Even if Chauvin caused Floyd's death, that doesn't necessarily mean that Chauvin is guilty of anything. There are circumstances where causing someone's death isn't a criminal offence. I'm not saying this is one of them, but it's a possibility. You don't seem to be inclined to give Chauvin a fair bounce of the ball.

I think this is spot on. It’s a middle ground balanced analysis..

Chauvin was part of Floyd’s death, but not necessarily the only cause...

MrStuffins

walshb wrote: »

I think this is spot on. It’s a middle ground balanced analysis..

Chauvin was part of Floyd’s death, but not necessarily the only cause...

The question here is, would Mr Floyd have died were it not for Mr Chauvin kneeling on Mr Floyd's neck for 9+ minutes? The answer is extremely likely to be no. In that case, Chauvin committed homicode. The autopsies have shown that there was one cause of death.

The cause of death in my opinion is asphyxia, due to compression to the neck - which can interfere with oxygen going to the brain - and compression to the back, which interferes with breathing," Dr Michael Baden, a former New York City medical examiner said at a news conference.

The defence will throw in things about drugs and health issues, but it's after-timing i'm afraid.

startrek56

BattleCorp wrote: »

You are really hung up on Chauvin causing Floyd's death. Here, if this makes you happy, I think Chauvin caused Floyd's death, in conjunction with drugs, poor health, dodgy police restraint techniques etc.

Even if Chauvin caused Floyd's death, that doesn't necessarily mean that Chauvin is guilty of anything. There are circumstances where causing someone's death isn't a criminal offence. I'm not saying this is one of them, but it's a possibility. You don't seem to be inclined to give Chauvin a fair bounce of the ball.

if chauvin had his knee on anyone's neck for that length of time regardless of how unhealthy/healthy they were, they would die. he/the other cops should have known that floyd had stopped breathing straight away

Lundstram

startrek56 wrote: »

if chauvin had his knee on anyone's neck for that length of time regardless of how unhealthy/healthy they were, they would die.

This is a pretty incredble thing to say and you're stating it like it's a fact.

If the prosecution said this, they'd lose the case straight away.

This method to restrain people has been used for a long time by certain states in the US. Has anyone died from it?

ohnonotgmail

Lundstram wrote: »

This is a pretty incredble thing to say and you're stating it like it's a fact.

If the prosecution said this, they'd lose the case straight away.

This method to restrain people has been used for a long time by certain states in the US. Has anyone died from it?

yes. another case in the same city 10 years prior to this event. the city paid out 3.5M in compensation.

Lundstram

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

yes. another case in the same city 10 years prior to this event. the city paid out 3.5M in compensation.

And how many have not died from it?

MrStuffins

Lundstram wrote: »

And how many have not died from it?

Whether or not this has not been lethal in other situations doesn't change that it was lethal in this case.

Lundstram wrote: »

This method to restrain people has been used for a long time by certain states in the US. Has anyone died from it?

FYI, there were two autopsies which both rued the death to be homocide. See the quote below:

The cause of death in my opinion is asphyxia, due to compression to the neck - which can interfere with oxygen going to the brain - and compression to the back, which interferes with breathing," Dr Michael Baden, a former New York City medical examiner said at a news conference.

Lundstram

MrStuffins wrote: »

FYI, there were two autopsies which both rued the death to be homocide. See the quote below:

But who's to say he wasn't soffocating before Chauvin put his knee on him. He was lying in the car saying he couldn't breathe, was he suffocating at the time?

I do believe Chauvin contributed to his death but he's just one link of a chain.

MrStuffins

Lundstram wrote: »

But who's to say he wasn't suffocating before Chauvin put his knee on him.

The people who carried out the autopsies.

lawrencesummers

[HTML][/HTML]

Lundstram wrote: »

And how many have not died from it?

All of the ones who didn’t die.

BattleCorp

startrek56 wrote: »

if chauvin had his knee on anyone's neck for that length of time regardless of how unhealthy/healthy they were, they would die. he/the other cops should have known that floyd had stopped breathing straight away

Not quite true. Chauvin had his knee on a 14 year old's kneck for 17 minutes a few years earlier and he didn't die.

Agreed that they should have noticed he had stopped breathing.

Call me Al

startrek56 wrote: »

if chauvin had his knee on anyone's neck for that length of time regardless of how unhealthy/healthy they were, they would die. he/the other cops should have known that floyd had stopped breathing straight away

Well the off-duty firefighter who tried to help George Floyd said.


'I noticed some fluid coming from what looked like George Floyd's body and a lot of time we see a patient release their bladder when they die - that's where my mind went.""

So she could see this and she was standing back from the body on the pavement. Yet none of the police officers standing over or kneeling on him saw it.

So yes, they should have known.

James Brown

chauvin knelt on his neck for over 9 minutes with his hands in his pockets while Floyd was cuffed and other officers looked on.
Even if they can show Floyd has issues due to drugs or what ever, Chauvin contributed to his death using undue and inhumane tactics. So it's only what level of manslaughter that's up for debate IMO.

penny piper

MrStuffins wrote: »

FYI, there were two autopsies which both rued the death to be homocide. See the quote below:

Is the autopsy quote you just gave there from Mr.Loyds family independent quote or by the Hennepin county medical examiner's office? didn't they find differences in the way Floyd died?

James Brown

James Brown wrote: »

chauvin knelt on his neck for over 9 minutes with his hands in his pockets while Floyd was cuffed and other officers looked on.
Even if they can show Floyd has issues due to drugs or what ever, Chauvin contributed to his death using undue and inhumane tactics. So it's only what level of manslaughter that's up for debate IMO.

Should the police also be looking to prosecute the person who supplied Floyd FG he drugs and charge them with the same crimes as Chauvin?

MrStuffins

Deleted User wrote: »

Should the police also be looking to prosecute the person who supplied Floyd FG he drugs and charge them with the same crimes as Chauvin?

I don't think so, because both autopsies ruled the death as homicide and neither said that drugs were a contributor to his death.

penny piper

MrStuffins wrote: »

I don't think so, because both autopsies ruled the death as homicide and neither said that drugs were a contributor to his death.

I thought that hennepin medical examiners office quoted drugs...enlarged heart...blocked arteries ...small tumour in the stomach..
the other autopsy by floyds family said he was perfectly healthy there was differing claims ...

MrStuffins

penny piper wrote: »

I thought that hennepin medical examiners office quoted drugs.....

As the cause of death?

Wrong

Here is the report: https://content.govdelivery.com/attachments/MNHENNE/2020/06/01/file_attachments/1464238/2020-3700%20Floyd,%20George%20Perry%20Update%206.1.2020.pdf

Cause of death: Cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression

Manner of death: Homicide

penny piper

MrStuffins wrote: »

As the cause of death?

Wrong

Here is the report: https://content.govdelivery.com/attachments/MNHENNE/2020/06/01/file_attachments/1464238/2020-3700%20Floyd,%20George%20Perry%20Update%206.1.2020.pdf

I didn't say that the cause of death was drugs.....It was a contributing factor..along with enlarged heart ...blocked arteries../method of restraint..etc. that's where the two autopsies differed....didn't you note that the autopsy from george floyd's family which was the original autopsy you quoted from ...said mr.floyd was perfectly fit.....Hennepin's medical examiner's office obviously thought different
....and to be perfectly honest in the food store he was in ....it was quite obvious he was under the influence of something......