Derek Chauvin murder trial (George Floyd)

MrStuffins

briany wrote: »

People keep saying the drugs he'd ingested were lethal. This needs qualifying:- lethal for who? Lethal for a first time user or lethal for someone who'd been using and had built up a tolerance?

Now, before anyone says, "Lethal for someone with a bad heart, maybe?", they still have to come back to a pretty tenuous central argument in order to downplay Chauvin's culpability - that the knee on the neck was pretty much a coincidence.

The "lethal" stuff is all just these lads posting in line with their politics. They're completely blinkered! The same people liking each other's posts because they all think exactly the same way. It's clear why!

Penny Piper keeps talking about drugs even though they said themselves that the drugs in Mr. Floyd's system were not lethal to him.

It's nothing but lads who all frequent the same Facebook groups (you know the ones) all wanting Mr Chauvin to get away with killing Mr Floyd for political reasons. There's no impartiality!

I imagine if you inspected their keyboards the keys for "B", "L" & "M" would be worn out.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Meth use really screws up the lungs https://www.webmd.com/connect-to-care/addiction-treatment-recovery/methamphetamine/meth-use-and-lung-health

It might be easy enough to sway the jury that a normal person would still have been able to breath and chauvin wouldnt have killed them but in georges case his lungs were trashed by drugs and chauvin was just the final nail in a coffin that was already basically sealed

Don't they have the eggshell skull principal in the states?

MrStuffins

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Absolutely, its possible he is , but in a low end manslaughter kind of way , not a calculated murder kind of way that many want him to be convicted of

There you go.

You agree that Mr Chauvin is responsible for Mr Floyd's death. That's the point of the trial.

I'm not sure anyone thinks this was a case of premeditated murder. In fact, he's not being charged with premeditated murder

CIARAN_BOYLE

MrStuffins wrote: »

There you go.

You agree that Mr Chauvin is responsible for Mr Floyd's death. That's the point of the trial.

I'm not sure anyone thinks this was a case of premeditated murder. In fact, he's not being charged with premeditated murder

I think the point of the trial is which criminal charges is Chauvin guilty of.

Its obvious (and established as fact by the autopsy) that Chauvin's actions caused the death of Floyd. I'm not sure that the defence would argue that.

What they argue is that those actions were justified by his duty and that Chauvin is either not guilty of criminal charges or should be convicted only of the lesser offense.

briany

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Absolutely, its possible he is , but in a low end manslaughter kind of way , not a calculated murder kind of way that many want him to be convicted of

Chauvin kneeled on Floyd's neck for close to nine minutes while Floyd repeatedly told Chauvin that he couldn't breathe. Chauvin had plenty of time to think about those words and take appropriate action, and what did he do? Kept kneeling. That alone puts him beyond simple accidental manslaughter.

MrStuffins

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

I think the point of the trial is which criminal charges is Chauvin guilty of.

Its obvious (and established as fact by the autopsy) that Chauvin's actions caused the death of Floyd. I'm not sure that the defence would argue that.

100% agree with you.

I think any reasonable person sees this.

However, it doesn't stop some from continuing to argue otherwise due to political biases

Eric Cartman

briany wrote: »

Chauvin kneeled on Floyd's neck for close to nine minutes while Floyd repeatedly told Chauvin that he couldn't breathe. Chauvin had plenty of time to think about those words and take appropriate action, and what did he do? Kept kneeling. That alone puts him beyond simple accidental manslaughter.

“I cant breath” “the cuffs are too tight” , most criminals would say these types of things while being restrained , its reasonable not to pay much head to somebody restrained saying these things

Joe_ Public

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

I think the point of the trial is which criminal charges is Chauvin guilty of.

Its obvious (and established as fact by the autopsy) that Chauvin's actions caused the death of Floyd. I'm not sure that the defence would argue that.

What they argue is that those actions were justified by his duty and that Chauvin is either not guilty of criminal charges or should be convicted only of the lesser offense.

From the bits i've watched of the trial, it doesn't seem to me that the defence is accepting that at all. Their case is that George Floyd's death was the result of fentanyl in his system allied to pre-existing underlying conditions.

From Washington Post:

"He [Nelson] said he will present evidence that Floyd died of a combination of drug intoxication, heart disease and high blood pressure and that adrenaline rushing through his body from this struggle with police “acted to further compromise an already compromised heart.”

briany

Eric Cartman wrote: »

“I cant breath” “the cuffs are too tight” , most criminals would say these types of things while being restrained , its reasonable not to pay much head to somebody restrained saying these things

It's reasonable not to continue applying additional restraining techniques to an already restrained man. It's not reasonable to not only ignore the pleas of Floyd, but to continue kneeling on his neck even after he becomes unresponsive.

Swaine

briany wrote: »

Chauvin kneeled on Floyd's neck for close to nine minutes while Floyd repeatedly told Chauvin that he couldn't breathe. Chauvin had plenty of time to think about those words and take appropriate action, and what did he do? Kept kneeling. That alone puts him beyond simple accidental manslaughter.

He was saying he couldn't breathe long before Chauvin knelt on him.

Chauvin has probably arrested hundreds of drugged up criminals who would say anything to avoid arrest.

MrStuffins

Swaine wrote: »

He was saying he couldn't breathe long before Chauvin knelt on him.

Chauvin has probably arrested hundreds of drugged up criminals who would say anything to avoid arrest.

He killed the Mr Floyd though. What he did in the past is irrelevant!

CIARAN_BOYLE

Eric Cartman wrote: »

“I cant breath” “the cuffs are too tight” , most criminals would say these types of things while being restrained , its reasonable not to pay much head to somebody restrained saying these things

This is true.

In my opinion what it will come down to is what Chauvin knew or could be expected to know about Floyd's condition.

After the point where Floyd was clearly and visibly unconscious bystanders were yelling out that Floyd was unconscious and that the police should check his pulse. Did Floyd here them or does it merely appear that he should have beca0use those bystanders were closer to the camera than they were to Floyd.

One his Chauvin's colleagues suggested that Floyd should be rolled over onto his side. What did Chauvin understand from that comment. I understood he is unconscious let's put him in a recovery position.

When the police called for medical support what exactly did they say. There's no need to call an ambulance for a healthy man and no need to restrain an unconscious man.

The angle of Chauvin's head as Floyd is unconscious is also important. If Chauvin is looking down (as he is) he should be able to tell that Floyd is unconscious. If Floyd is not looking down the question becomes is he paying due care and attention.

Swaine

MrStuffins wrote: »

He killed the Mr Floyd though. What he did in the past is irrelevant!

It's not irrelevant, though, much as you'd like it to be to suit your narrative. Floyd had previous, the cops knew this so they took a more heavy handed approach in arresting him.

A drugged up crimimal acting extremely erratic from the get go was always going to be met with caution and a no bullsh1t approach.

eggy81

Eric Cartman wrote: »

“I cant breath” “the cuffs are too tight” , most criminals would say these types of things while being restrained , its reasonable not to pay much head to somebody restrained saying these things

Especially when your kneeling full weight on their neck. Sure what harm would it do ya!!

MrStuffins

Swaine wrote: »

they took a more heavy handed approach in arresting him.

Yes, they did.

But explaining why you killed someone doesn't change the fact that you killed him. And Mr Chauvin is responsible here.

He should go to prison

penny piper

MrStuffins wrote: »

Forgive me if I believe the word of the top homicide investigator in Minneapolis over you pal

It's your opinion ....believe what you like ....

Swaine

MrStuffins wrote: »

Yes, they did.

But explaining why you killed someone doesn't change the fact that you killed him. And Mr Chauvin is responsible here.

He should go to prison

He didn't kill him. He might have contributed to it, but in no way is this murder. Not even sure it's mansalughter.

Negligence maybe.

briany

Swaine wrote: »

He was saying he couldn't breathe long before Chauvin knelt on him.

And, as we all know, the appropriate action for an officer apprehending a suspect saying, "I can't breathe" is to put a knee on his neck...

Chauvin has probably arrested hundreds of drugged up criminals who would say anything to avoid arrest.

Irrelevant. We can go all the way back to Aesop on that one and The Boy Who Cried Wolf on that one. It's bad to lie, but it's also bad to become cynical based on dealings with liars because you may end up ignoring the truth. If a police officer lets that kind of cynicism in, they could end up mistreating a lot of innocent people, defying the oath they took.

MrStuffins

penny piper wrote: »

It's your opinion ....believe what you like ....

Wrong

It's the opinion of Richard Zimmerman, the longest serving member of the Minneapolis Police Department

MrStuffins

Swaine wrote: »

He didn't kill him.

Two autopsies say otherwise.

eggy81

MrStuffins wrote: »

Wrong

It's the opinion of Richard Zimmerman, the longest serving member of the Minneapolis Police Department

The last person you’d believe so.

MrStuffins

eggy81 wrote: »

The last person you’d believe so.

You don't believe the opinions of the police? Just because they're police?

Policemen are servants of the community and on the whole are good and trusting men.

It's bizarre that you feel otherwise. Quite a biased standpoint!

CIARAN_BOYLE

Swaine wrote: »

He didn't kill him. He might have contributed to it, but in no way is this murder. Not even sure it's mansalughter.

Negligence maybe.

I think negligence is a key part of the definition of 3rd degree murder in this legal system.

penny piper

MrStuffins wrote: »

Yes, they did.

But explaining why you killed someone doesn't change the fact that you killed him. And Mr Chauvin is responsible here.

He should go to prison

Not much point in a trial is there?

eggy81

MrStuffins wrote: »

You don't believe the opinions of the police? Just because they're police?

Policemen are servants of the community and on the whole are good and trusting men.

It's bizarre that you feel otherwise. Quite a biased standpoint!

You don’t have to look too far to find incidences of police cover ups for their own wrongdoing. It’s an institution and they’ll look after their own when they can. Not saying that this msn isn’t being honest. Just that his word can’t be taken for gospel just because of who he is. It should be scrutinised like anyone else’s.
Personally I don’t think chauvin set out to murder floyd but there’s some sort of an unlawful killing charge to be served IMO. If someone in your family was killed in this way no matter how many drug arrests they may have accrued you’d be looking for a conviction in these circumstances

MrStuffins

penny piper wrote: »

Not much point in a trial is there?

Trials are very important. Justice should be done

Oh and you don't think the jury (as experts have already stated) will be influenced by the race issue that will ultimately come into their decision making....

Not sure what you mean. Are you saying that jurors will take the fact that Mr Floyd is black into consideration and find Mr Chauvin not guilty because of race? That would be wrong

Nozebleed

briany wrote: »

Chauvin kneeled on Floyd's neck for close to nine minutes while Floyd repeatedly told Chauvin that he couldn't breathe. Chauvin had plenty of time to think about those words and take appropriate action, and what did he do? Kept kneeling. That alone puts him beyond simple accidental manslaughter.

but thats not true..and you know this...from the facts stated during the first 4 days of the trial.

MrStuffins

Nozebleed wrote: »

but thats not true..and you know this...from the facts stated during the first 4 days of the trial.

Which part is not true?

Ten of Swords

MrStuffins do not post in this thread again

penny piper

Does anyone think that Derek Chauvin will testify? would it be in his interest?