Derek Chauvin murder trial (George Floyd)

All_in_Flynn

Yesterday was an awful day for the defence in my opinion.

Both the Chief of police and a trainer stated that the technique used by the defendant was not taught and was not practice. Was also stated numerous times that the administration of medical assistance was a priority.

I've also seen people mention of the knee being on the shoulder blade. However, as was pointed out by the prosecution, the defendant only adjusted his knee once the ambulance arrived.

From a human standpoint, I don't know how anyone can watch the video and condone or reason that the level of restraint used was justified. He was kneeling on him even after he lost consciousness.

The defence really do have an uphill battle to try and get a reasonable doubt argument across to the jurors cause the evidence thus far has been really damning.

ohnonotgmail

BattleCorp wrote: »

He did have other heart problems though. He had cardiomegaly and arteriosclerotic heart disease that was multifocal and severe. He also had hypertension. We are still learning about how COVID affects the heart but it is known to put the heart under pressure and a person who was suffering from a raft of heart issues would be more likely to suffer cardiacpulmonary arrest. https://www.healthline.com/health-news/what-we-know-about-covid-19-and-long-term-heart-damage#Those-with-preexisting-heart-issues-have-a-greater-risk



The example of assaulting a sick person isn't a fair comparison. Assault is an illegal action. A police officer restraining someone (normally) isn't an assault nor is it illegal (unless the officer goes too far). My point being that the initial restraint isn't illegal nor is it assault..

the initial restraint wasn't but the continued restraint for 9 minutes was. both the chief and another senior officer have testified that it was unwarranted and not what he was trained to do. Chauvin had responsibilities to the person he restrained. He ignored those responsibilities.

BattleCorp

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

the initial restraint wasn't but the continued restraint for 9 minutes was. both the chief and another senior officer have testified that it was unwarranted and not what he was trained to do. Chauvin had responsibilities to the person he restrained. He ignored those responsibilities.

I don't entirely disagree with that but there may be mitigating circumstances that could affect the outcome of the trial.

ohnonotgmail

BattleCorp wrote: »

I don't entirely disagree with that but there may be mitigating circumstances that could affect the outcome of the trial.

perhaps you could suggest what they might be?

BattleCorp

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

perhaps you could suggest what they might be?

I'm just throwing these out there off the top of my head, they may or may not be relevant.

1. Chauvin said he was distracted by the crowd. Possibly watching for a potential assault etc. It's not unusual for medics/cops etc. to be assaulted by members of the public while carrying out their duties. Happens regularly here in Ireland.

2. Regarding the knee on the neck, an inch or two lower and Chauvin mightn't have been kneeling on Floyd's neck. It's possible that Chauvin thought he was kneeling on his shoulder or that he wasn't putting much pressure on Floyd. He had used that technique on someone else for nearly 17 minutes and they didn't die.

3. How well was the training carried out regarding the kneeling on the neck, turning people etc.? The cops who gave evidence were desk jockeys for the best part of the last quarter of a century so they mightn't be the best at giving practical advice/evidence. If there is a struggle or distractions, it might be arguable that it's easy enough to apply the neck restraint technique in a less than perfect manner. A few inches either way could have made all the difference in this case. It may be arguable that it's hard to be inch perfect in the heat of battle.

I'm not arguing that the above points are fact, I'm just saying they could be argued in mitigation. It would be up to the judge/jury to decide if they accepted them.

And all of the above is leaving aside the fcuked up state of Floyd's health and his drug use.

ohnonotgmail

BattleCorp wrote: »

I'm just throwing these out there off the top of my head, they may or may not be relevant.

1. Chauvin said he was distracted by the crowd. Possibly watching for a potential assault etc. It's not unusual for medics/cops etc. to be assaulted by members of the public while carrying out their duties. Happens regularly here in Ireland.

2. Regarding the knee on the neck, an inch or two lower and Chauvin mightn't have been kneeling on Floyd's neck. It's possible that Chauvin thought he was kneeling on his shoulder or that he wasn't putting much pressure on Floyd. He had used that technique on someone else for nearly 17 minutes and they didn't die.

3. How well was the training carried out regarding the kneeling on the neck, turning people etc.? The cops who gave evidence were desk jockeys for the best part of the last quarter of a century so they mightn't be the best at giving practical advice/evidence. If there is a struggle or distractions, it might be arguable that it's easy enough to apply the neck restraint technique in a less than perfect manner. A few inches either way could have made all the difference in this case. It may be arguable that it's hard to be inch perfect in the heat of battle.

I'm not arguing that the above points are fact, I'm just saying they could be argued in mitigation. It would be up to the judge/jury to decide if they accepted them.

And all of the above is leaving aside the fcuked up state of Floyd's health and his drug use.

he didnt seem terribly distracted. there were other cops there and there was no suggestion the cops were in any danger. Regarding the other two he shouldn't have had his knee ANYWHERE near his neck after he had restrained floyd. there was no heat of battle. his suspect was handcuffed on the ground. Far too many people willing to make excuses for Chauvin.

BattleCorp

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

he didnt seem terribly distracted. there were other cops there and there was no suggestion the cops were in any danger. Regarding the other two he shouldn't have had his knee ANYWHERE near his neck after he had restrained floyd. there was no heat of battle. his suspect was handcuffed on the ground. Far too many people willing to make excuses for Chauvin.

And far too many people not taking other factors into account either. They just see knee, knee, knee and won't take Floyd's medical history etc. into account.

I'm not absolving Chauvin by the way. He certainly did wrong in my mind. Whether that reaches the standard of being criminal, I'm still fairly 50:50 on it.

BattleCorp

BattleCorp wrote: »

And far too many people not taking other factors into account either. They just see knee, knee, knee and won't take Floyd's medical history etc. into account.

I'm not absolving Chauvin by the way. He certainly did wrong in my mind. Whether that reaches the standard of being criminal, I'm still fairly 50:50 on it.

Criminal negligence is a thing, since senior police officers have stated it wasn't acceptable and a man is dead as a result of it. That would strike me as pretty criminal, he continued to kneel on the neck of a person who had lost consciousness...

BattleCorp

Deleted User wrote: »

Criminal negligence is a thing, since senior police officers have stated it wasn't acceptable and a man is dead as a result of it. That would strike me as pretty criminal, he continued to kneel on the neck of a person who had lost consciousness...

And that's why I'm still fairly 50:50 on it.

I can see things from both sides.

bazermc

What exactly is Chauvin doing writing all those notes. Surely he’ll have access to the transcript. I could understand a few notes but he seems to be continuously writing during any testimony including cross examination

penny piper

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

he didnt seem terribly distracted. there were other cops there and there was no suggestion the cops were in any danger. Regarding the other two he shouldn't have had his knee ANYWHERE near his neck after he had restrained floyd. there was no heat of battle. his suspect was handcuffed on the ground. Far too many people willing to make excuses for Chauvin.

How he seemed doesn't mean to say he wasn't distracted..that's only your opinion...

Didn't the ambulance driver say they thought it was better to move floyd from where he was because of the situation around them the crowd?

What I also find strange is how many minneapolis police officers who are giving evidence in this trial seem such perfect officers (don't use this hold..don't do this etc) and yet seemingly they have let an officer for over 20 years presumably not knowing what he was doing/causing mayhem/danger to the general public and yet he was never dismissed from the force.......didn't chauvan receive several commendations in his time in the force??? really strange situation..

Quantum Erasure

bazermc wrote: »

What exactly is Chauvin doing writing all those notes. Surely he’ll have access to the transcript. I could understand a few notes but he seems to be continuously writing during any testimony including cross examination

Surely it's easier to take notes at the time and cross reference later, than having to read through the transcript line by line and maybe miss something later that you thought of at the time?

Sandor Clegane

penny piper wrote: »

How he seemed doesn't mean to say he wasn't distracted..that's only your opinion...

Didn't the ambulance driver say they thought it was better to move floyd from where he was because of the situation around them the crowd?

What I also find strange is how many minneapolis police officers who are giving evidence in this trial seem such perfect officers (don't use this hold..don't do this etc) and yet seemingly they have let an officer for over 20 years presumably not knowing what he was doing/causing mayhem/danger to the general public and yet he was never dismissed from the force.......didn't chauvan receive several commendations in his time in the force??? really strange situation..

He also had 18 official complaints on his record.

penny piper

How can Derick Chauvan have a fair trial when you have the Floyd family outside the Hannepen Court House holding a press conference...talking about civil rights/family having ptsd ....absolutely ridiculous what's going on in this case....

penny piper

Sandor Clegane wrote: »

He also had 18 official complaints on his record.

To be perfectly honest I'd say alot of police officers have alot of complaints about them....I'm sure he's not the only police officer in minneapolis with complaints against them

Sandor Clegane

penny piper wrote: »

To be perfectly honest I'd say alot of police officers have alot of complaints about them....I'm sure he's not the only police officer in minneapolis with complaints against him..

Maybe, but 18 is a lot to be fair, he has a history of over the top, aggressive behavior.

People like that in a positions of power are accidents waiting to happen.

MeMen2_MoRi_

BattleCorp wrote: »

And far too many people not taking other factors into account either. They just see knee, knee, knee and won't take Floyd's medical history etc. into account.

I'm not absolving Chauvin by the way. He certainly did wrong in my mind. Whether that reaches the standard of being criminal, I'm still fairly 50:50 on it.

You're still 50/50 when you watch a man a top of a dead man and showing no due care and attention to that man's medical needs even when it was pointed out by a cop?

But yeah, Chauvin said he was distracted

Biker79

penny piper wrote: »

How can Derick Chauvan have a fair trial when you have the Floyd family outside the Hannepen Court House holding a press conference...talking about civil rights/family having ptsd ....absolutely ridiculous what's going on in this case....

There are major political forces involved with this case. The full video tape was kept away from the public by a complicit media long enough for this incident to get traction worldwide. All over the world, BLM is now a recognized brand. There were even BLM protests on O'Connell St.

Chauvin is being thrown under the bus for political reasons. Cant say he is completely undeserving...its hard to say.....but its turning out much different than it appeared last June.

bazermc

I think I’ll cancel my Netflix for the rest of this trial. Is just going to go to waste

Also is there any indication yet if Chauvin will take the stand?

ohnonotgmail

Biker79 wrote: »

There are major political forces involved with this case. The full video tape was kept away from the public by a complicit media long enough for this incident to get traction worldwide. All over the world, BLM is now a recognized brand. There were even BLM protests on O'Connell St.

Chauvin is being thrown under the bus for political reasons. Cant say he is completely undeserving...its hard to say.....but its turning out much different than it appeared last June.

it isn't really that difficult to say. his actions were contrary to the training he was given as well as being completely unnecessary. His actions led to the death of the person he was detaining. he isn't being thrown under the bus, he jumped under the bus.

briany

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

it isn't really that difficult to say. his actions were contrary to the training he was given as well as being completely unnecessary. His actions led to the death of the person he was detaining. he isn't being thrown under the bus, he jumped under the bus.

The argument being made is that he was simply using an authorised restraining technique as taught by Minneapolis police. The problem with this argument is that I doubt the protocol is to use the restraining technique while the person is already handcuffed, while they're telling you they cannot breathe, after they lose consciousness, and even after they die.

wicklowstevo

Sandor Clegane wrote: »

Maybe, but 18 is a lot to be fair, he has a history of over the top, aggressive behavior.

People like that in a positions of power are accidents waiting to happen.

minor reprimands twice out of those 18 complaints and commended for valour twice as well as multiple other commendations over the course of 20 years

pjohnson

Biker79 wrote: »

There are major political forces involved with this case. The full video tape was kept away from the public by a complicit media long enough for this incident to get traction worldwide. All over the world, BLM is now a recognized brand. There were even BLM protests on O'Connell St.

Chauvin is being thrown under the bus for political reasons. Cant say he is completely undeserving...its hard to say.....but its turning out much different than it appeared last June.

Chauvin was hoping the politics around this would help find him innocent. It doesnt appear to be going that way.

Biker79

briany wrote: »

while they're telling you they cannot breathe, after they lose consciousness, and even after they die.

He was already saying that before the police went near him.

The reason he ' couldn't breathe ' was his drug induced delusions, or else drug induced respiratory problems. Nothing to do with the police.

We know this know because these facts have since come to light. Last year, the whole world was in solidarity with an organisation whose rallying cry was ' I cant breathe ',

And we know now this was completely fraudulent. Let that sink in, while reflecting back to the coverage of this incident last year.

We also know that this was the second time Floyd OD'd on drugs when apprehended by the police, but the last time he nearly died on the way to hospital in an ambulance.

ohnonotgmail

briany wrote: »

The argument being made is that he was simply using an authorised restraining technique as taught by Minneapolis police. The problem with this argument is that I doubt the protocol is to use the restraining technique while the person is already handcuffed, while they're telling you they cannot breathe, after they lose consciousness, and even after they die.

that does seem to be something of a problem with that argument.

ohnonotgmail

Biker79 wrote: »

He was already saying that before the police went near him.

The reason he ' couldn't breathe ' was his drug induced delusions, or else drug induced respiratory problems. Nothing to do with the police.

We know this know because these facts have since come to light. Last year, the whole world was in solidarity with an organisation whose rallying cry was ' I cant breathe ',

And we know now this was completely fraudulent. Let that sink in, while reflecting back to the coverage of this incident last year.

We also know that this was the second time Floyd OD'd on drugs when apprehended by the police, but the last time he nearly died on the way to hospital in an ambulance.

maybe he didnt die the previous time because the officer involved then didn't kneel on his neck for 9 minutes. Maybe that was a contributory factor. Just saying.

Fandymo

Sandor Clegane wrote: »

Maybe, but 18 is a lot to be fair, he has a history of over the top, aggressive behavior.

People like that in a positions of power are accidents waiting to happen.

One complaint a year against a cop on the streets is hardly a lot.

briany

Biker79 wrote: »

He was already saying that before the police went near him.

Yes, and as we all know, the responsible response to man telling you he cannot breathe is to handcuff him and then place a knee on his neck. And then hold that knee there as he continues to tell you same and after he gives no struggle, and then hold that knee there as he passes out, and then hold that knee there as he dies.

The reason he ' couldn't breathe ' was his drug induced delusions, or else drug induced respiratory problems. Nothing to do with the police.

Both autopsies on Floyd have ruled homicide but differ on contributing factors. Neither one discounts what was actually happening to him at the time, so "Nothing to do with the police." isn't a goer.

penny piper

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

maybe he didnt die the previous time because the officer involved then didn't kneel on his neck for 9 minutes. Maybe that was a contributory factor. Just saying.

or maybe he didn't have as much drugs on him the last time...Just saying.

MeMen2_MoRi_

Which emphasizes the need to give due care and attention to George even more..

Nevermind hanging on top of him as he lay there dead for minutes.