Derek Chauvin murder trial (George Floyd)

biko

How easy is it to take too much Fentanyl?



This is a lethal dose for most people.



https://www.dea.gov/galleries/drug-images/fentanyl

biko

biko wrote: »

How easy is it to take too much Fentanyl?

This is a lethal dose for most people.

https://www.dea.gov/galleries/drug-images/fentanyl

SMH A terrifying drug.

Muahahaha

bazermc wrote: »

I think I’ll cancel my Netflix for the rest of this trial. Is just going to go to waste

Also is there any indication yet if Chauvin will take the stand?

There is still no indication whether or not he will take the stand. My guess is he wont, any attempt by him to explain away having his knee of Flyods neck for 9 minutes isnt going to end well for him. If he does take the stand it will be because of his own arrogance and against his own defense lawyers advice.

Ha Long Bay

biko wrote: »

How easy is it to take too much Fentanyl?



This is a lethal dose for most people.



https://www.dea.gov/galleries/drug-images/fentanyl

How easy is it to take your knee off the neck of a dead person?




This is a lethal dose for most people.

Sandor Clegane

wicklowstevo wrote: »

minor reprimands twice out of those 18 complaints and commended for valour twice as well as multiple other commendations over the course of 20 years

Fandymo wrote: »

One complaint a year against a cop on the streets is hardly a lot.

I was trying to make the point that being commended for valor means nothing, he had a history of overly aggressive behavior and this time tragedy struck.

Whether or not they'll get a murder charge out of his actions I don't no, murder is pushing it, but I can't see any argument against manslaughter.

But even the third degree murder charge ticks a lot of boxes, I no it's a pretty unique charge.

His extreme negligence, lack of due care to his prisoner along with kneeling on his neck when it wasn't warranted is all very damning in my view.

wicklowstevo

Sandor Clegane wrote: »

I was trying to make the point that being commended for valor means nothing, he had a history of overly aggressive behavior and this time tragedy struck.

Whether or not they'll get a murder charge out of his actions I don't no, murder is pushing it, but I can't see any argument against manslaughter.

But even the third degree murder charge ticks a lot of boxes, I no it's a pretty unique charge.

His extreme negligence, lack of due care to his prisoner along with kneeling on his neck when it wasn't warranted is all very damning in my view.

Complaints do not equate to a history of overly aggressive behaviour.
unless you don't feel innocent till proven guilty only applys to some and not others
18 complaints . cleared 16 times and a load of commendations would suggest he was quite a active front line police man operating in a area that was quite hostile towards the police in general ,

Sandor Clegane

wicklowstevo wrote: »

Complaints do not equate to a history of overly aggressive behaviour.
unless you don't feel innocent till proven guilty only applys to some and not others
18 complaints . cleared 16 times and a load of commendations would suggest he was quite a active front line police man operating in a area that was quite hostile towards the police in general ,

He has previous form it's very easy to look up...but even discounting all that the evidence in this case alone is damning, you can't justify the negligence and knee on the neck for so long.

Guerillabear

Hạ Long Bay wrote: »

How easy is it to take your knee off the neck of a dead person?




This is a lethal dose for most people.

You’d want to be a real POS to insult this guys memory by saying drugs killed him - I mean look at the terror in his face.

In no way am I police hater (thought the recent Nkencho shooting was completely justified), but the US has some serious policing issues.

Anyone here train BJJ? You may have noticed that nobody has ever knelt on your neck, because it can kill you.

wicklowstevo

Sandor Clegane wrote: »

He has previous form it's very easy to look up...but even discounting all that the evidence in this case alone is damning, you can't justify the negligence and knee on the neck for so long.

can you post the link there, does it have details of the complaints and why they were upheld or dismissed ?

you said he had a history of being overly aggressive after all

briany

Guerillabear wrote: »

In no way am I police hater (thought the recent Nkencho shooting was completely justified), but the US has some serious policing issues.

Agree with you about Nkencho. The killing of George Floyd, however, at the very least, Chauvin did not play it by the book. I don't think he'll get second degree murder, but manslaughter looks pretty likely at this stage.

wicklowstevo

Guerillabear wrote: »

You’d want to be a real POS to insult this guys memory by saying drugs killed him - I mean look at the terror in his face.

In no way am I police hater (thought the recent Nkencho shooting was completely justified), but the US has some serious policing issues.

Anyone here train BJJ? You may have noticed that nobody has ever knelt on your neck, because it can kill you.

he had the same look and demeaner and claimed he couldnt breath when he was standing upright against the cop car ,
I have some small experience in combat sports and I would not be comfortable apply pressure to a neck only for the shortest time possible as a way of ending the spar by giving no potion but to tap out.

back of the neck is a lot safer than the right side where the main vessels that take blood to the brain is

Sandor Clegane

wicklowstevo wrote: »

can you post the link there, does it have details of the complaints and why they were upheld or dismissed ?

you said he had a history of being overly aggressive after all

Just look him up and it'll be there for you, takes about a second.

We have two confirmed cases that ended in discipline, the pulling of a woman out of her car, his actions against Floyd that ended up with a man dead and 16 other complaints we don't no the details of, plus a statement from a former employer that he was overly aggressive when dealing with people as a security and allegedly resorting to macing crowds and calling up back up when unwarranted.

wicklowstevo

Sandor Clegane wrote: »

Just look him up and it'll be there for you, takes about a second.

We have two confirmed cases that ended in discipline, the pulling of a woman out of her car, his actions against Floyd that ended up with a man dead and 16 other complaints we don't no the details of, plus a statement from a former employer that he was overly aggressive when dealing with people as a security and allegedly resorting to macing crowds and calling up back up when unwarranted.

look him up where ? Wikipedia ?
what were he details of the 16 times he was cleared ? do you know ? false allegations insufficient evidence ? vexatious allegations ? . wasn't that club that was burned down by rioters ? in spite of the fact that it gave a chance for ex con George a place to work too ?

how do you feel about the many commendations ?

wicklowstevo

wicklowstevo wrote: »

look him up where ? Wikipedia ?
what were he details of the 16 times he was cleared ? do you know ? false allegations insufficient evidence ? vexatious allegations ? . wasn't that club that was burned down by rioters ? in spite of the fact that it gave a chance for ex con George a place to work too ?

how do you feel about the many commendations ?

Why? Are? You? Using? So? Many? Question? Marks?

Sandor Clegane

wicklowstevo wrote: »

look him up where ? Wikipedia ?
what were he details of the 16 times he was cleared ? do you know ? false allegations insufficient evidence ? vexatious allegations ? . wasn't that club that was burned down by rioters ? in spite of the fact that it gave a chance for ex con George a place to work too ?

how do you feel about the many commendations ?

Yeah there nice and all but just because he has several commendations doesn't exonerate him from a past thats also littered with complaints.

Mellor

turbbo wrote: »

First I'd like to be clear I never said it would - "diminish the criminality of manslaughter or murder". My point is that it could very possibly be a factor in the mans death. Every little detail will be relevant in a case like this.

Ok, if it’s determined that Chauvin acted criminally. In what way could Floyd health be relevant to the charges?

That all depends on what police policy was - if the restraint can be proven to be policy - then Chauvin could get off any manslaughter or murder charge.

It’s been confirmed without a doubt that he didn’t follow policy. That was known pretrial when the policy was posted on thread. And has now been stated in court.

Billy Mays

Guerillabear wrote: »

You’d want to be a real POS to insult this guys memory by saying drugs killed him - I mean look at the terror in his face.

In no way am I police hater (thought the recent Nkencho shooting was completely justified), but the US has some serious policing issues.

Anyone here train BJJ? You may have noticed that nobody has ever knelt on your neck, because it can kill you.

Some people on here just seem so desperate to see this cop get off

Mellor

BattleCorp wrote: »

He did have other heart problems though. He had cardiomegaly and arteriosclerotic heart disease that was multifocal and severe. He also had hypertension. We are still learning about how COVID affects the heart but it is known to put the heart under pressure and a person who was suffering from a raft of heart issues would be more likely to suffer cardiacpulmonary arrest.

Lots if people have heart disease or other health problems. This has no bearing on the criminality of his actions.

He is on trial for his actions not the outcome.

The example of assaulting a sick person isn't a fair comparison. Assault is an illegal action. A police officer restraining someone (normally) isn't an assault nor is it illegal (unless the officer goes too far). My point being that the initial restraint isn't illegal nor is it assault.

I think it’s a very fair example.
Beating somebody up is not always a crime either. It can be justified, as you pointed out previously.
A normal restraint is not illegal. Going too far is.

The entire case is to determine if he went too far, acted criminally negligent, so as to contribute to the death. If they is the case, then he’s guilty. That’s a really basic idea in law.

I see your point above but don't agree 100% with it. There are many factors at play. Even if the court deem that Chauvin didn't show enough care or follow procedure exactly, that mightn't be enough to secure a conviction. They may decide that there were mitigating circumstances such as the crowd distracting the officer etc.

Is there any evidence to suggest he was distracted?
As he was responding clearly, and refuse to let up on the neck.

If I'm driving my car, I'm unlikely to be assaulted. If I'm arresting someone, I have to be aware that I could get a boot in the face (or even shot) so I'd be a lot more likely to be distracted by a crowd in that situation.

He had other officers with him. If he was concerned about an attack. Surely getting Floyd into the car should have been a priority. He’s actions rule that out.

I'm not saying any of your points don't have merit, they do. But there are many ways to argue the same points. I wouldn't like to be on the jury making a decision on this case.

Similarly I’m not saying your points are invalid. I’m just point out the the health of the victim has n bearing on the crime.
If he acted illegally, he committed a crime. Simple as that imo.

briany

Billy Mays wrote: »

Some people on here just seem so desperate to see this cop get off

I think some people are just wound up by BLM and 'woke' culture and all that stuff that Chauvin getting off would be a victory in that particular culture war, but to me that would be cheap. What really matters is the events of that took place leading up to and during Floyd's death and the deliberations over them during this trial and let the chips fall where they may on that.

wicklowstevo

Sandor Clegane wrote: »

Yeah there nice and all but just because he has several commendations doesn't exonerate him from a past thats also littered with complaints.

2 upheld complaints over 20 years ?

littered ?

poisonated

I’ve a lot of time for the police. I think they are over worked and underpaid. But I really hope Derek chauvin gets convicted.

Real Donald Trump

Hope Chauvin gets off, if people actually watch the whole video and not just the 9 minutes they might see why.

Real Donald Trump

Real Donald Trump wrote: »

Hope Chauvin gets off, if people actually watch the whole video and not just the 9 minutes they might see why.

And the chief of police doesn't align with your view, he said what he did to a restrained man was unacceptable. This included continuing to kneel on a person for minutes after he lost consciousness....

osarusan

It has been said repeatedly that people should watch all the footage, not just the 9 minutes.

I have watched the footage, the two other police bodycams included. It doesn't change my opinion at all. Actually, the fact that there were 3 other officers there makes the whole thing worse. A lone officer could argue that he was dealing with both an aggressive suspect and a hostile crowd, but 4 of them?

As i said previously, I've no issue with Floyd being physically taclked and restrained - he was very agressive and needed to be treated aggresively in return. No issue with him being put down on the ground beside the police car. I don't even have an issue with initially using a knee restraint to...for want of a better term...knock the fight out of him.

But I genuinely don't see how it changes the issue of whether Chauvin behaved recklessly/negligently in continuing to apply the neck restraint long after it was necessary to do so. Especially when there were 3 other officers there who could have continued to restrain Floyd in other ways.

So, for posters who say we need to watch the whole footage...what do think is in there that is so relevant or convincing?

biko

Billy Mays wrote: »

Some people on here just seem so desperate to see this cop get off

Let the rule of law do it's thing.

penny piper

Mellor wrote: »

It’s been confirmed without a doubt that he didn’t follow policy. That was known pretrial when the policy was posted on thread. And has now been stated in court.

Wasn't it also confirmed in court that dependent on what the situation is also contributes to how an officer will act.....you can't always "follow policy" and if you did see the trial you would have seen several officers agree with what Nelson said on this...

BattleCorp

Mellor wrote: »

Lots if people have heart disease or other health problems. This has no bearing on the criminality of his actions.

He is on trial for his actions not the outcome.

We clearly disagree on the relevance of Floyd's medical history/drug use when it comes to this case so we'll leave it at that. We aren't going to find any common ground there.

Is there any evidence to suggest he was distracted?

Yes, his laywer stated it in court. Not strong evidence admittedly, but still evidence all the stame.

He had other officers with him. If he was concerned about an attack. Surely getting Floyd into the car should have been a priority. He’s actions rule that out.

They tried getting Floyd into the car earlier in the proceedings. Floyd resisted arrest and wouldn't let himself be put in the car.

I don't think the other officers were between Chauvin and the crowd, not all the time at least so maybe he had right to be concerned.

I'm not saying I believe Chauvin when he says he was distracted, but it is a possibility.

MeMen2_MoRi_

penny piper wrote: »

Wasn't it also confirmed in court that dependent on what the situation is also contributes to how an officer will act.....you can't always "follow policy" and if you did see the trial you would have seen several officers agree with what Nelson said on this...

What conceivable situation calls for restraining a dead man for minutes on end?

BattleCorp

MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »

What conceivable situation calls for restraining a dead man for minutes on end?

When you don't know he's dead possibly.

ohnonotgmail

BattleCorp wrote: »

When you don't know he's dead possibly.

so you keep pressing on his neck to make sure?