Derek Chauvin murder trial (George Floyd)

BattleCorp

Sandor Clegane wrote: »

Why are they pointing guns at people over traffic stops? threatening a guy who says he's afraid to get, saying he should be....screaming and acting insane, there behaviour is ridiculous they just don't seem to be able to talk or deescalate a situation.

Heres the one with the snow, I wonder what justification people can up with for this one.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9454143/Bodycam-footage-shows-Ohio-cop-shoving-snow-mouth-man-ground.html

There's no justification for it. I don't see anybody trying to justify it.

Penn

penny piper wrote: »

I actually think that has been noted numerous times.

I think it's something that people are actively trying to ignore, and instead try to focus on other details which ultimately don't negate the main point of kneeling on his neck and chest for 9 minutes.

Okay, Chauvin didn't pull a gun on him and was called as backup.... does that change the fact Chauvin knelt on his neck and back for 9 minutes?

Biker79 wrote: »

I think a lot of people on this thread cant cope with complexity.

Likewise, I think a lot of people on this thread are doing their best to come up with reasons for why Floyd might have died, even though the two autopsies (the official one and an independent one) both say the cause of death was based on Chauvin's actions, one saying he died from not being able to breathe, the other saying heart failure caused from not being able to breathe and the restraint. Testimony from medical professionals (eg. not keyboard detectives) stated his drug intake or underlying heart condition didn't play a role in his death, and that anyone in Floyd's position would have died. Floyd's criminal background doesn't change the fact Chauvin knelt on his neck. Floyd saying he couldn't breathe while being put into the police car doesn't change the fact Chauvin knelt on his neck.

"Complexity" does not change the fact Chauvin knelt on the neck and back of a man who died because Chauvin knelt on his neck and back.

Sandor Clegane

BattleCorp wrote: »

There's no justification for it. I don't see anybody trying to justify it.

Some have tried to justify almost every other thing I assumed this would be no different.

BattleCorp

Penn wrote: »

I think it's something that people are actively trying to ignore, and instead try to focus on other details which ultimately don't negate the main point of kneeling on his neck and chest for 9 minutes.

And many other people are actively ignoring other information in the autopsy that may be relevant such as Floyd's heart condition, overall medical condition and his drug use and the possibility that he had COVID.

The jury might deem those factors to be irrelevant when making their decisions but none of us are psychic so we can't say that for sure........so for now it has to be taken into consideration because they are being argued as factors in the trial.

Testimony from medical professionals (eg. not keyboard detectives) stated his drug intake or underlying heart condition didn't play a role in his death, and that anyone in Floyd's position would have died.

These were medical professionals for the prosecution. They would be pro the prosecution side. The defence will bring out other medical professionals to counter the testimony of those guys. It's up to who performs best under cross-examination.

"Complexity" does not change the fact Chauvin knelt on the neck and back of a man who died because Chauvin knelt on his neck and back.

Nope, complexity does not change the fact that Chauvin knelt on the neck and back of a man who died.

Complexity means that Floyd may have died because Chauvin knelt on his neck and back and possibly because of other issues too.

briany

The health issues that Floyd may have had at the time of his death will be - and are being - brought up many times during this trial, both by the defence as a mitigating circumstance, and by the prosecution who would question how great a factor they were. This being largely achieved through the testimony and cross examination of expert witnesses brought in to testify.

If Chauvin is still found guilty it will probably be because the prosecution successfully argued that the restraint and the way it was employed was the greatest factor in Floyd's death. Fair enough. Or else, some might say, it was because of a prejudiced jury, but this comes back to the question of whether you can have a fair jury trial for a highly publicised case. Currently, this is what Daniel Kinahan is arguing as to his reasons not to come back to Ireland to face trial on drug trafficking charges, but if this is a valid argument for certain potential criminals not to face proceedings which could bring them to justice, then I don't think this would be correct. However, at least in America, they seem to be happy enough that their justice system is able to accommodate such cases that they don't feel the need to enact some kind of changes in the justice system. So we are where we are on that.

Doggos

briany wrote: »

However, at least in America, they seem to be happy enough that their justice system is able to accommodate such cases that they don't feel the need to enact some kind of changes in the justice system. So we are where we are on that.

Excuse me? You couldn't have that more wrong. Qualified immunity and elected prosecutors, to start.

Fandymo

Doggos wrote: »

Are you American? Do you know who BLM and Antifa actually are? Or do you just have your views from maybe media hype?

If my views were from the media I’d be taking a knee before work every morning and self flagellating for having the temerity to be being born white.

Fandymo

Eric Cartman wrote: »

why the hell do these people not comply, genuinely ,
cop : 'get out of the car'
you : actually get out of the car..
problem solved.

theres always just some needless disagreement or trying to resist.

Saw a video where a pastor who was extremely vocal at protests, calling for cops badges etc was invited to do some police training on approaching and dealing with suspects. They did 3 drills with him. First drill he was too polite and standoffish and got shot. Second drill he shot an unarmed black man. Third drill he got the guy arrested but he had a concealed knife on him. It really changed his outlook. He stated at the end, always comply. Always.

https://youtu.be/yfi3Ndh3n-g

charlie_says

Why do people keep claiming that there was a knee to the neck for 9 minutes?

The prosecutions own medical witnesses gave evidence that this didn't happen, that there no prolonged pressure the to the neck, but mostly to the back and shoulders. This is also supported by the body cams.

The prosecutions own medical witnesses guys. How and why does this incorrect claim getting parroted over and over again? Is it perhaps that it was parroted for over a year everywhere.

Fandymo

Doggos wrote: »

Clearly, you don't understand what it means to be in fear and how that impacts people in real life. This man knew once he was out of the car, he could most likely be roughed up and/or lose his life. He clearly tried to calmly talk about it first as the cop was in a rage and guns were out. Have you ever had guns pointed at your head while people were irrationally screaming at you? Easy to type out what you have behind a keyboard and I'm going to guess, never living in the shoes of a person of colour in the US.

Ive been in the US once, for 3 months. I had a gun pullled on me twice by the police. Once the LAPD and once South Lake Tahoe PD. The second time the gun was put to my head for a few seconds as instructions were shouted at me. I didn’t resist, I didn’t argue, I didn’t struggle.

How many videos have we seen of compliant males being assaulted/shot? None that I can remember. The common denominator in all the videos I can recall over the last few years has been resistance and non-compliance or trying to flee.

Doggos

Fandymo wrote: »

If my views were from the media I’d be taking a knee before work every morning and self flagellating for having the temerity to be being born white.

Media works both ways. And your post is clearly sarcastic hyperbole. How nice. Taking the knee during certain events is rare enough and meaningful. It's a show of solidarity. What do you know about it? Your sarcasm is ignorance on display and unappreciated. Its nothing to do with "self flagellation." Or the "temerity of being born white." Missed the mark, wide.

Doggos

Fandymo wrote: »

Ive been in the US once, for 3 months. I had a gun pullled on me twice by the police. Once the LAPD and once South Lake Tahoe PD. The second time the gun was put to my head for a few seconds as instructions were shouted at me. I didn’t resist, I didn’t argue, I didn’t struggle.

How many videos have we seen of compliant males being assaulted/shot? None that I can remember. The common denominator in all the videos I can recall over the last few years has been resistance and non-compliance or trying to flee.

Ha yeah right. I call BS. 100% that is complete and utter bs.

Also- Of course there are videos of compliant males being harassed, assaulted, shot or killed by police. That's actually an insane statement, which contributes to my calling your bs. Elijah McCain off the top of my head. Knock yourself out.

Fandymo

Call what you like. First time was in LA, right beside Venice Beach. We’d bought a Dodge Ram Van and had headed up to have a look at Hollywood. On the way back the lad driving had a brain fart and tried to power slide around the corner. Cops were about 5 metre up from the corner. Pulled us over. 2 of the lads were in the front. The back was tinted out. After a minute or two, one of the cops realised there were people in the back and the guns came out and we were told to open the door slowly and get out slowly. After a few minutes they realised we were all Irish, had a chat with us about road safety in the US, “there’s a lot of maniacs out on those highways”. And sent us on our way.

Second time was a 911 hang-up, was about 3:30am, I was back from the casino and grabbed a beer, and sat down to listen to some Christy Moore. Realised I’d sat on the house phone and picked it up, could hear someone talking, thought I’d hit redial and called Ireland so hung up straight away. Phone rang back about 2/3 minutes later and the person said they’d just had a 911 call hang up on them. I explained what happened and they said they’d send a car around anyway to make sure everything was ok. I said no worries, thinking they meant a car would drive around outside to make sure all was quiet. About 15 minutes later I get a knock on the door, thought it might be one of the lads from the other house so asked who it was, got told in no uncertain terms it was the police. Got told to open the inner door slowly, then reach out and open the porch door, keeping my hands on the porch door as I opened it. When is it open partly I was told to slowly bring my head and my body out and to make no sudden movements. As I brought my head around the door I was eye to barrel with the gun, stand against the wall, have you anything on you you shouldn’t etc. 2 cops, female late 30s/early 40s barking all the instructions and a male early 20s who was a bit more mellow. Asked about the call, explained everything, asked if she could have a look around the house, not a bother, they both came in. She wanted to know who else was in the house. I told her and said that they were all in bed, she went into each room with her flashlight and gun drawn and confirmed. As she was upstairs the younger guy was downstairs chatting to me, asking me about the music I was listening to etc. She came down the stairs holstering her weapon, happy enough that I had been truthful, thanked me for my cooperation and left.

Fandymo

Doggos wrote: »

Ha yeah right. I call BS. 100% that is complete and utter bs.

Also- Of course there are videos of compliant males being harassed, assaulted, shot or killed by police. That's actually an insane statement, which contributes to my calling your bs. Elijah McCain off the top of my head. Knock yourself out.

That took about 3 seconds to debunk.

According to the police report, McClain resisted when confronted by the responding police officers, and Officers Woodyard and Rosenblatt heard Officer Roedema shout "he is going for your gun".

Doggos

Fandymo wrote: »

How many videos have we seen of compliant males being assaulted/shot? None that I can remember. The common denominator in all the videos I can recall over the last few years has been resistance and non-compliance or trying to flee.

"Trying to flee" isn't cause for a death sentence. Neither is resistance or non-compliance. FYI.

And check these cases out. Bet you won't.

Atatiana Jefferson
Botham Jean
Stephon Clark
Philando Castille
Tamir Rice
Eric Garner
Rayshard Brooks

Fandymo

Doggos wrote: »

"Trying to flee" isn't cause for a death sentence. Neither is resistance or non-compliance. FYI.

And check these cases out. Bet you won't.

Atatiana Jefferson
Botham Jean
Stephon Clark
Philando Castille
Tamir Rice
Eric Garner
Rayshard Brooks

D’ya want a hand with those goalposts?

Atatiana Jefferson, pointing a gun at police: Police body camera footage showed officers walking outside the home with flashlights for a few minutes before one of them yells, "Put your hands up! Show me your hands!", before discharging his weapon through a window.[2] Police stated that they found a handgun near her body, which according to her 8-year-old nephew, she was pointing toward the window before being shot.

Botham Jean: Off duty cop entered wrong apartment and thought guy was burgling her. Nothing to do with race. Horrible tragedy.

Stephon Clark: DA stated cops had probable cause to stop Clark and were legally justified in the use of deadly force.

I’m not going to bother going on

Doggos

Fandymo wrote: »

That took about 3 seconds to debunk.

According to the police report, McClain resisted when confronted by the responding police officers, and Officers Woodyard and Rosenblatt heard Officer Roedema shout "he is going for your gun".

Don't know where you got that info from but you're incorrect. Post your version then. He was a sensitive young adult who did no such thing. You've seemingly made that up.

Doggos

Fandymo wrote: »

D’ya want a hand with those goalposts?

Do you want a hand to read up on those? You proved my point. You're not going to look them up, are you.

Doggos

Fandymo wrote: »

Call what you like. First time was in LA, right beside Venice Beach. We’d bought a Dodge Ram Van and had headed up to have a look at Hollywood. On the way back the lad driving had a brain fart and tried to power slide around the corner. Cops were about 5 metre up from the corner. Pulled us over. 2 of the lads were in the front. The back was tinted out. After a minute or two, one of the cops realised there were people in the back and the guns came out and we were told to open the door slowly and get out slowly. After a few minutes they realised we were all Irish, had a chat with us about road safety in the US, “there’s a lot of maniacs out on those highways”. And sent us on our way.

Second time was a 911 hang-up, was about 3:30am, I was back from the casino and grabbed a beer, and sat down to listen to some Christy Moore. Realised I’d sat on the house phone and picked it up, could hear someone talking, thought I’d hit redial and called Ireland so hung up straight away. Phone rang back about 2/3 minutes later and the person said they’d just had a 911 call hang up on them. I explained what happened and they said they’d send a car around anyway to make sure everything was ok. I said no worries, thinking they meant a car would drive around outside to make sure all was quiet. About 15 minutes later I get a knock on the door, thought it might be one of the lads from the other house so asked who it was, got told in no uncertain terms it was the police. Got told to open the inner door slowly, then reach out and open the porch door, keeping my hands on the porch door as I opened it. When is it open partly I was told to slowly bring my head and my body out and to make no sudden movements. As I brought my head around the door I was eye to barrel with the gun, stand against the wall, have you anything on you you shouldn’t etc. 2 cops, female late 30s/early 40s barking all the instructions and a male early 20s who was a bit more mellow. Asked about the call, explained everything, asked if she could have a look around the house, not a bother, they both came in. She wanted to know who else was in the house. I told her and said that they were all in bed, she went into each room with her flashlight and gun drawn and confirmed. As she was upstairs the younger guy was downstairs chatting to me, asking me about the music I was listening to etc. She came down the stairs holstering her weapon, happy enough that I had been truthful, thanked me for my cooperation and left.

You're on an absolute windup. tourist visa? You did not buy a van. What address did you register it to? What insurance did you have?

That story you posted did. not. happen.
Love the moral of the story where, you explain your Irish and lived. So relatable to African Americans. :pac:

Fandymo

Doggos wrote: »

Where's the gun put to the head? You've embellished. You "all" bought a vehicle? In who's name? On what license? On a 3 month tourist visa? You did not. What address did you register it to?

That story you posted did. not. happen.
Love the moral of the story where, you explain your Irish and lived. So relatable to African Americans. :pac:

Where are your eyes? Mine are in my head. I was literally staring into the barrel for a good minute or two.

I’ve attached a pic of the made up van. 6 of us chipped in. 2 of the lads went to Van Nuys and bought it from a guy called Maurice(Maur-eece), the receptionist in the Venice Beach Cotel put us in touch with him. I presume it was registered on one of their Irish licenses, they said they bought it straight away, but it took all day in the DMV. The van got us from LA, to San Diego, to Santa Barbara and then onto South Lake Tahoe, although that journey almost killed her. But she was still useable as a run around in Tahoe. His final resting place was the car park at the bottom of Ski Run Blvd, but we all got souvenirs I think. I’ve the keys here and another lad took the plates.

Doggos

Fandymo wrote: »

Where are your eyes? Mine are in my head. I was literally staring into the barrel for a good minute or two.

I’ve attached a pic of the made up van. 6 of us chipped in. 2 of the lads went to Van Nuys and bought it from a guy called Maurice(Maur-eece), the receptionist in the Venice Beach Cotel put us in touch with him. I presume it was registered on one of their Irish licenses, they said they bought it straight away, but it took all day in the DMV. The van got us from LA, to San Diego, to Santa Barbara and then onto South Lake Tahoe, although that journey almost killed her. But she was still useable as a run around in Tahoe. His final resting place was the car park at the bottom of Ski Run Blvd, but we all got souvenirs I think. I’ve the keys here and another lad took the plates.

You can't just buy a van in the US and go driving it around. Then you claim you get pulled over after an insane driving stunt and away you go? Ha. You have to show the bill of sale, your proof of title, insurance, registration, and US license in order for vehicle ownership. You need a permanent address to do any of that. That car would have been taken off you and towed and most likely arrested on suspicion of theft as it wouldn't have been properly registered with the DMV. I'm American. You're talking nonsense, obviously. Your whole story here is nonsense.

Fandymo

charlie_says wrote: »

Why do people keep claiming that there was a knee to the neck for 9 minutes?

The prosecutions own medical witnesses gave evidence that this didn't happen, that there no prolonged pressure the to the neck, but mostly to the back and shoulders. This is also supported by the body cams.

The prosecutions own medical witnesses guys. How and why does this incorrect claim getting parroted over and over again? Is it perhaps that it was parroted for over a year everywhere.

Tell a lie often enough and it becomes the accepted truth.

MeMen2_MoRi_

Testimonies could be finished by Friday.. closing statements Monday

bazermc

MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »

Testimonies could be finished by Friday.. closing statements Monday

And then the wait begins. Judges instructions should be interesting. Don’t fancy his job.

Biker79

BLM getting their gear ready, for a bit of city smashing.

Not their founder though - she's been busy buying up property all over the place.

https://nypost.com/2021/04/10/inside-blm-co-founder-patrisse-khan-cullors-real-estate-buying-binge/

Probably won't any riots around there.

Nice coinage in these ' non-profits ' .

MeMen2_MoRi_

Biker79 wrote: »

BLM getting their gear ready, for a bit of city smashing.

Not their founder though - she's been busy buying up property all over the place.

https://nypost.com/2021/04/10/inside-blm-co-founder-patrisse-khan-cullors-real-estate-buying-binge/

Probably won't any riots around there.

Nice coinage in these ' non-profits ' .

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2058091617/1/#post113884503

Might be a better thread for that nonsense.

Doggos

Fandymo wrote: »

D’ya want a hand with those goalposts?

Atatiana Jefferson, pointing a gun at police: Police body camera footage showed officers walking outside the home with flashlights for a few minutes before one of them yells, "Put your hands up! Show me your hands!", before discharging his weapon through a window.[2] Police stated that they found a handgun near her body, which according to her 8-year-old nephew, she was pointing toward the window before being shot.

Botham Jean: Off duty cop entered wrong apartment and thought guy was burgling her. Nothing to do with race. Horrible tragedy.

Stephon Clark: DA stated cops had probable cause to stop Clark and were legally justified in the use of deadly force.

I’m not going to bother going on

You edited this long after I responded. Police did not announce themselves in or around the home. She was babysitting and playing video games with her nephew, when police were responding to a call about the front door being open. They did not announce themselves in the back yard, and within seconds of being back there shot her through the window. That officer has been indicted on murder charges. And before that even, the officer resigned and the police chief said they would have been fired if not for resigning.
Stephon Clark: police officers fired 20 shots at him and killed him in his grandparents’ backyard within 4 seconds. No weapon, just a cellphone (police claimed he had a crowbar). He was a father of two.
Botham Jean: Cop made previous racist and questionable comments online including just prior to the shooting. Enters his home where he's eating ice cream and watching television and shoots him dead. Cop sentenced to 10 years.

You seem to have some sort of bizarre ulterior motive here. In addition to your strange made up stories.

Mellor

briany wrote: »

There is a high likelihood that Chauvin will be convicted of something. I'd have to think he'll at least get convicted on one of the lesser manslaughter charges.

There's only 1 manslaughter, FWIW.

Fandymo wrote: »

Guilty, not Guilty, hung jury. Doesn't matter. Cities will burn. It's what BLM and Antifa do.

If you think it's going to happen no matter what, then might as well just disregard. It has no bearing on the outcome, or the criminality of Chauvin's actions.

penny piper wrote: »

I think the trial is rigged to a certain extent because of outside influences and anyone who thinks that's not true is delusional

I'd ask you the same question. What are these outside influences that are rigging the trial?
The other poster couldn't come up with an answer. Feel this may be i nthe too hard pile.

penny piper wrote: »

It should be noted by some posters on here that Chauvan never held a gun to anyone's head and was called out to the incident as back up.

Did anyone claim he held a gun to anyones head?
There bee na few other cases and videos mention in thread.

BattleCorp wrote: »

Complexity means that Floyd may have died because Chauvin knelt on his neck and back and possibly because of other issues too.

That would still mean that Chauvin is criminally responsible and should be found guilty on some of the charges.

BattleCorp

Mellor wrote: »

I'd ask you the same question. What are these outside influences that are rigging the trial?

I'm not saying the trial is rigged, but the jury going home every night and seeing all the protestors and the recent riots mostly peaceful protests must realise that if they find Chauvin 'not guilty' their city will be wrecked.

Hard for that not to have an influence on their decision.

Mellor

BattleCorp wrote: »

I'm not saying the trial is rigged, but the jury going home every night and seeing all the protestors and the recent riots mostly peaceful protests must realise that if they find Chauvin 'not guilty' their city will be wrecked.

Hard for that not to have an influence on their decision.

Would you let the protestors influence your decision if you were on the jury?