Derek Chauvin murder trial (George Floyd)

penny piper · 21-04-2021 4:38pm

Smee_Again wrote: »

Didn’t see the trial.
Doesn’t understand the charges.

Wants to be taken seriously

Oh I think if you read some of my previous posts I definitely watched the trial...

21-04-2021 4:39pm

Faugheen wrote: »

Nope.

Just suggesting that there are people on this forum who have problems with black people and are showcasing it right now by trying to defend this murdering scumbag and, in a lot of cases, victim blame.

As I have said multiple times. Dissent, deny, deflect and distract. Those same posters are happy to talk about anything to do with this case apart from the fact a white police officer murdered an unarmed black man.

It's actually funny that you're resorting to calling people racists over it..

PauloMN · 21-04-2021 4:40pm

Overheal wrote: »

Surely nobody could actually pretend race is not an element in this case?

Was there any reference to race in the trial? I don't know, not being a smart arse by asking that. It appeared as a case of police brutality to me, so the verdict seems spot on. If there was a racial element involved, I'd be asking questions about how a police officer could be on active duty if he/she had racist leanings.

drkpower · 21-04-2021 4:41pm

Overheal wrote: »

Surely nobody could actually pretend race is not an element in this case?

Well it wasn’t at all pleaded by the prosecution so that tells its own story.

It’s certainly possible that Chauvin had an inherent bias against black people but in my view (completely speculative just like everyone else’s) he is as likely to have had an inherent bias against ‘junkies’ and faced with someone with all of floyds characteristics who was Hispanic/white, he probably would have done the same thing.

penny piper · 21-04-2021 4:42pm

Would someone explain to me why the black people around george floyd plaza don't want police officers to patrol that neighbourhood only want their own security? that seems strange to me..

Overheal · 21-04-2021 4:43pm

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

Look at the killing of Daniel Shaver, killed on his knees in his hotel room, begging not to be shot. The police were there as he was seen walking by his hotel room with a pellet gun. He was shot five times as he was seen to lowing one hand towards his waist, which it is believed he did as his briefs were falling off. He was drunk so struggled to comply with police instructions. But he was white so the media buried the case. Vastly worse case than the killing of George Floyd and he wasn't convicted a criminal like GF. But no protests. No outrage. No one cares.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42277309

Huh.

I’ll shortcut the pedantry here and just advice you that there are reams of reporting on the Daniel Shaver case from across the spectrum available just taps away by search engine. I don’t see how you get from there to a media coverup.

drkpower · 21-04-2021 4:44pm

penny piper wrote: »

Would someone explain to me why the black people around george floyd plaza don't want police officers to patrol that neighbourhood only want their own security? that seems strange to me..

Because they don’t trust the police

Overheal · 21-04-2021 4:44pm

PauloMN wrote: »

Was there any reference to race in the trial? I don't know, not being a smart arse by asking that. It appeared as a case of police brutality to me, so the verdict seems spot on. If there was a racial element involved, I'd be asking questions about how a police officer could be on active duty if he/she had racist leanings.

I didn’t watch the trial so I frankly don’t know what the prosecutions strategy was or if it hinges on, referenced or was dismissive of race.

BattleCorp · 21-04-2021 4:46pm

drkpower wrote: »

Because they don’t trust the police

I wonder if 12 months of no policing in their area would change their minds? Look how that Seattle experiment yoke turned out.

Yellow_Fern · 21-04-2021 4:48pm

I am posting a screenshot of the Minnesota Police Department training manual that shows a policeman's knee being placed on the neck of a suspect. It is called the prone maxial restraint technique.

PauloMN · 21-04-2021 4:50pm

Overheal wrote: »

I didn’t watch the trial so I frankly don’t know what the prosecutions strategy was or if it hinges on, referenced or was dismissive of race.

I didn't watch it either, but I find it interesting that some people assume a racial element. Genuinely curious as to why you asked this:

Surely nobody could actually pretend race is not an element in this case?

Is it simply because the victim was black and the perpetrator is white? Is that alone enough to assume a racial element is part of the crime? Does this always mean that by default a crime committed against a black person by a white person is at least partially racially motivated? That just seems bizarre to me.

Overheal · 21-04-2021 4:51pm

BattleCorp wrote: »

I wonder if 12 months of no policing in their area would change their minds? Look how that Seattle experiment yoke turned out.

So we can establish both that the community categorically distrusts their police and that not having police or some form of government public safety is not a viable alternative.

I don’t think various versions of telling the public to **** off and just accept things the way they are is going to crack this nut.

21-04-2021 4:52pm

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

I am posting a screenshot of the Minnesota Police Department training manual that shows a policeman's knee being placed on the neck of a suspect. It is called the prone maxial restraint technique.

And? That literally says to put them in the recovery position once they're cuffed, did Chauvin do or attempt to do that?

Smee_Again · 21-04-2021 4:54pm

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

I am posting a screenshot of the Minnesota Police Department training manual that shows a policeman's knee being placed on the neck of a suspect. It is called the prone maxial restraint technique.

Ah come on, Chauvin’s weight was bearing down on Floyd.

In your image the officer is supporting his own weight.

You couldn’t be more disingenuous if you tried.

penny piper · 21-04-2021 4:54pm

Overheel wrote: »

Do you have a source for this?

Well you could try looking at the star tribune? dated march 15,2021.
I think if you google you will probably find alot more.

21-04-2021 4:55pm

Smee_Again wrote: »

Ah come on, Chauvin’s weight was bearing down on Floyd.

In your image the officer is supporting his own weight.

You couldn’t be more disingenuous if you tried.

Floyd was twice the size of Chauvin..

Three of them couldn't get him into the car..

OMM 0000 · 21-04-2021 4:55pm

Oranage2 wrote: »

What's in it for me?

Justice.

Justice for a man that lay helpless on the ground as another man slowly kneeled on his neck until he died.

Justice for the black community that unlawful killings by police will not go unpunished.

Justice that law enforcement can be accountable.

Justice

Ah, so you want justice for blacks but not for whites. Sounds like you may be the thing you're fighting against.

No sane person thinks Chauvin was guilty of all three charges. Mob rule is what got him convicted and you should be against that as it could happen to you.

Overheal · 21-04-2021 4:56pm

penny piper wrote: »

Well you could try looking at the star tribune? dated march 15,2021.
I think if you google you will probably find alot more.

If you don’t have a source that’s fine too I guess but the burden of proof is yours.

Smee_Again · 21-04-2021 4:57pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Floyd was twice the size of Chauvin..

So? He was prone on the ground about shin height at that stage.

Overheal · 21-04-2021 4:57pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Floyd was twice the size of Chauvin..

Three of them couldn't get him into the car..

Does Floyd being heavier then Chauvin make Chauvin weightless? If not then given the context here I’m really unsure what point you’re making.

Penn · 21-04-2021 4:58pm

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

I am posting a screenshot of the Minnesota Police Department training manual that shows a policeman's knee being placed on the neck of a suspect. It is called the prone maxial restraint technique.

"Sudden cardiac arrest typically occurs immediately following a violent struggle"
"Place the subject in the recovery position to alleviate positional asphyxia"

penny piper · 21-04-2021 4:58pm

drkpower wrote: »

Because they don’t trust the police

That's silly ...you all need to learn to live together in harmony.
Perhaps, it would be better if all american's couldn't access weapons/guns so easily ....must be difficult to be a police officer.

BattleCorp · 21-04-2021 5:00pm

Overheal wrote: »

So we can establish both that the community categorically distrusts their police and that not having police or some form of government public safety is not a viable alternative.

I don’t think various versions of telling the public to **** off and just accept things the way they are is going to crack this nut.

Hey, it's not me looking for no police in the George Floyd plaza neighbourhood, it's the black citizens themselves who are looking for this.

And my point is that things will turn to sh1t if they get their wish. Communities need policing no matter what the locals say. If not, they'll turn out like that Autonomous Zone in Seattle that was effectively taken over by criminals.

Tony EH · 21-04-2021 5:01pm

penny piper wrote: »

Do you really think I care what you think?

You're nothing but a time waster.

Yellow_Fern · 21-04-2021 5:02pm

Deleted User wrote: »

And? That literally says to put them in the recovery position once they're cuffed, did Chauvin do or attempt to do that?

The manuals says to use a variant of the recovery position, which Chauvin did indeed put him on. GF died in this recovery position. The mistake Chauvin made was not checking his pulse and moving him when he became unresponsive. It is also very possible he placed too much pressure on the neck killing him, alternatively it possible he moved to shoulder as GF stopped responding as below and didnt kill him. It is very unclear.

https://twitter.com/louraguse/status/1379171775876055042

Steven Crowder did a pretty cool reconstruction https://youtu.be/5qHLXbVDnkc?t=4681

penny piper · 21-04-2021 5:04pm

Tony EH wrote: »

You're nothing but a time waster.

Ignored....

Smee_Again · 21-04-2021 5:06pm

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

The manuals says to use a variant of the recovery position, which Chauvin did indeed put him on. GF died in this recovery position. The mistake Chauvin made was not checking his pulse and moving him when he became unresponsive. It is also very possible he placed too much pressure on the neck killing him, alternatively it possible he moved to shoulder as GF stopped responding as below and didnt kill him. It is very unclear.

https://twitter.com/louraguse/status/1379171775876055042

Steven Crowder did a pretty cool reconstruction https://youtu.be/5qHLXbVDnkc?t=4681

Did you miss the verdicts?

There’s no possible any more, it’s been established by a court of law that Floyd was murdered by Chauvin.

Overheal · 21-04-2021 5:07pm

BattleCorp wrote: »

Hey, it's not me looking for no police in the George Floyd plaza neighbourhood, it's the black citizens themselves who are looking for this.

And my point is that things will turn to sh1t if they get their wish. Communities need policing no matter what the locals say. If not, they'll turn out like that Autonomous Zone in Seattle that was effectively taken over by criminals.

No but it is you telling them proverbially to **** off and see how you like zero policing if you have the gall to demand a police force you don’t have to live in fear of.

21-04-2021 5:08pm

Overheal wrote: »

I didn’t watch the trial so I frankly don’t know what the prosecutions strategy was or if it hinges on, referenced or was dismissive of race.

Well that explains why you don't understand that this wasn't a racially motivated case.

Tony EH · 21-04-2021 5:08pm

penny piper wrote: »

Ignored....

Just like you ignored the basics of the trial that you've been yapping about for 170 pages. You haven't a bull's notion what you're trying to talk about and you expect people to try and take you even remotely seriously on your ill informed crusade for Chauvin...

...and you don't even know what fucking charges he was up for.

Absolutely cretinous.

:rolleyes:

21-04-2021 5:08pm

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

The manuals says to use a variant of the recovery position, which Chauvin did indeed put him on.

What variant of the recovery position did Chauvin put him on?

Yellow_Fern · 21-04-2021 5:08pm

Overheal wrote: »

Does Floyd being heavier then Chauvin make Chauvin weightless? If not then given the context here I’m really unsure what point you’re making.

The fact that Derek Chauvin was a far smaller man makes it far harder to block GF's airway. You should watch the Steven Crowder reconstruction where they mimicked the weights of DC and GF.

Overheal · 21-04-2021 5:10pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Well that explains why you don't understand that this wasn't a racially motivated case.

You are more than welcome to attempt to prove the negative if you’re going to be that combative about it?

Penn · 21-04-2021 5:10pm

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

Steven Crowder did a pretty cool reconstruction https://youtu.be/5qHLXbVDnkc?t=4681

https://twitter.com/bobposting/status/1384576844167450625?s=20

https://twitter.com/MyChickenDinner/status/1382400877470699522?s=20

https://twitter.com/WesSauD/status/1384744199929536513?s=20

Knee not in the same position in Crowder's "reconstruction".

Such bullsh*t.

Overheal · 21-04-2021 5:12pm

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

The fact that Derek Chauvin was a far smaller man makes it far harder to block GF's airway. You should watch the Steven Crowder reconstruction where they mimicked the weights of DC and GF.

So what you’re arguing is that Chauvin tried that much harder to pull off what he did

I hope you see how inculpatory that argument is

Faugheen · 21-04-2021 5:12pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Because the colour of the people has nothing to do with this case.

Why would you bring race into it?

And now you are deflecting away from the issue at hand.

I’m talking about certain posters attitudes to black people and to racism in general. Yet you are not only ignoring that but you are deflecting.

This trial and the blindness of some posters shows their prejudice. There are racists on boards. Fact.

BattleCorp · 21-04-2021 5:13pm

Overheal wrote: »

No but it is you telling them proverbially to **** off and see how you like zero policing if you have the gall to demand a police force you don’t have to live in fear of.

I didn't say that at all, not even close. Please try to keep things accurate.

I surmised that they'd be quick to change their mind if they had 12 months of no policing given what happened when there was no policing in an area of Seattle.

21-04-2021 5:13pm

Smee_Again wrote: »

Did you miss the verdicts?

There’s no possible any more, it’s been established by a court of law that Floyd was murdered by Chauvin.

Pending appeal

Baggly · 21-04-2021 5:13pm

Tony EH wrote: »

You're nothing but a time waster.

penny piper wrote: »

Ignored....

Tony EH wrote: »

Just like you ignored the basics of the trial that you've been yapping about for 170 pages. You haven't a bull's notion what you're trying to talk about and you expect people to try and take you even remotely seriously on your ill informed crusade for Chauvin...

...and you don't even know what fucking charges he was up for.

Absolutely cretinous.

:rolleyes:

Mod

Both of you dont post here again.

21-04-2021 5:16pm

Faugheen wrote: »

And now you are deflecting away from the issue at hand.

I’m talking about certain posters attitudes to black people and to racism in general. Yet you are not only ignoring that but you are deflecting.

This trial and the blindness of some posters shows their prejudice. There are racists on boards. Fact.

I'm not deflecting. I am dealing with the topic. The trial of Derek chauvin. I'm saying that this case isn't racially motivated and you are implying it is.

You are bringing race into this.

There probably are racist on boards. Probably paedophiles too. But I see no evidence of either on this topic.

Overheal · 21-04-2021 5:18pm

BattleCorp wrote: »

I didn't say that at all, not even close. Please try to keep things accurate.

I surmised that they'd be quick to change their mind if they had 12 months of no policing given what happened when there was no policing in an area of Seattle.

Sorry but it came off that way. And it’s how it comes off when that talking point gets used. The vast majority of us agree what happened in Seattle was a farce with tragic consequences. Most Americans simultaneously agree that “defund the police” is a stupid, stupid, stupid Banner for what most Americans agree are good ideas: use of force reforms, repealing qualified immunity, divesting money to teams better suited to respond to many grades of mental health disturbances, etc etc.

PokeHerKing · 21-04-2021 5:18pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Well that explains why you don't understand that this wasn't a racially motivated case.

Let's call it racially charged then. Your attempt to completely remove race from the trial is as ludicrous as somebody pulling the race card for everything.

21-04-2021 5:19pm

Overheal wrote: »

You are more than welcome to attempt to prove the negative if you’re going to be that combative about it?

I'm not combative. The fact is that there is no proof or evidence whatsoever that there was any racial element to this case.

You are saying there is.

21-04-2021 5:20pm

PokeHerKing wrote: »

Let's call it racially charged then. Your attempt to completely remove race from the trial is as ludicrous as somebody pulling the race card for everything.

How?

How is anything about this racially charged?

Yellow_Fern · 21-04-2021 5:21pm

Penn wrote: »

https://twitter.com/bobposting/status/1384576844167450625?s=20

https://twitter.com/MyChickenDinner/status/1382400877470699522?s=20

https://twitter.com/WesSauD/status/1384744199929536513?s=20

Knee not in the same position in Crowder's "reconstruction".

Such bullsh*t.

Watch the actual video instead of selective edits on Twitter. There are plenty of occasions where the fake cop was fully on Crowder's neck. For example https://youtu.be/5qHLXbVDnkc?t=4933
But as I said before, you cant fully replicate the scenario that occurred in real life. People neck and torsos vary. Crowder has a similar weight but he in far better shape then GF sagger body might have been more vulnerable. Also had fentanyl levels that can be fatal in him. The point I would make is that there is ample reasonable doubt, even though the neck move is dangerous.

drkpower · 21-04-2021 5:22pm

penny piper wrote: »

That's silly ...you all need to learn to live together in harmony.
Perhaps, it would be better if all american's couldn't access weapons/guns so easily ....must be difficult to be a police officer.

Sure let’s all live in harmony; we can all agree on that.

But there is a reality that a sizeable portion of the population in the US don’t trust law enforcement; you can argue the toss in whether that’s justified. I’m not one for ‘identity politics’ and the like, but to be fair, unless you have had the experience they have had, it’s very hard to second guess their position. And even objectively speaking, there are very good reasons for their distrust.

While a different context, we have had a similar dynamic in this island so we should be capable of understanding their position to a degree.

walshb · 21-04-2021 5:27pm

Race was absolutely an issue in this case. But purely contrived and manufactured.

No actual evidence or substance to suggest the incident was racially motivated.

Man commits crime. Police deal with him. Man dies. Cop charged. Cop guilty.

Detritus70 · 21-04-2021 5:33pm

OMM 0000 wrote: »

OMG, we're racist now?

It's racist to acknowledge Floyd had three times the fatal dosage of fentanyl in his system?

Yes it is, because it is a flat out lie

Sandor Clegane · 21-04-2021 5:38pm

walshb wrote: »

Race was absolutely an issue in this case. But purely contrived and manufactured.

No actual evidence or substance to suggest the incident was racially motivated.

Man commits crime. Police deal with him. Man dies. Cop charged. Cop guilty.

America does have a problem with systemic racism, while Chauvin isn't an innocent in my opinion, he was put to the sword big time for a wider problem, no evidence in this case suggests it's race related, he's been used as a scapegoat but at the same time I struggle to find much sympathy for him, so many of his actions were hugely unnecessary and callous and he's paying for it.

Overheal · 21-04-2021 5:38pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'm not combative. The fact is that there is no proof or evidence whatsoever that there was any racial element to this case.

You are saying there is.

Seems to be an absolutely absurd claim to anyone who has passing familiarity with this case. The defense even used the Rodney King argument, that he had “superhuman” strength. Superhuman. Last I checked blacks were only human.

I’m not sure how one could argue race plays no element when it so clearly does. The best olive branch I can give you is that the prosecutions case did not have to invoke racism as an element in their prosecution to secure convictions. That is not to say that race was not an element, only that it was not instrumental to securing conviction.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-04-03/derek-chauvin-trial-george-floyd-anger

You keep saying, matter of factly, that race wasn’t evident and that there is no proof or evidence that it is. Yet there is. It seems futile now to argue the negative.

Derek Chauvin murder trial (George Floyd)

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