Derek Chauvin murder trial (George Floyd)

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

Seems to be an absolutely absurd claim to anyone who has passing familiarity with this case. The defense even used the Rodney King argument, that he had “superhuman” strength. Superhuman. Last I checked blacks were only human.

I’m not sure how one could argue race plays no element when it so clearly does. The best olive branch I can give you is that the prosecutions case did not have to invoke racism as an element in their prosecution to secure convictions. That is not to say that race was not an element, only that it was not instrumental to securing conviction.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-04-03/derek-chauvin-trial-george-floyd-anger

You keep saying, matter of factly, that race wasn’t evident and that there is no proof or evidence that it is. Yet there is. It seems futile now to argue the negative.

Excuse me?

Apart from the fact they were different skin colours, what else leads you to believe that there was any race related motivation?

The only thing I can deduce from that is that any thing a white person does to a black person has an element of racism to it.

That's a preposterous position to hold.

Penn

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

Watch the actual video instead of selective edits on Twitter. There are plenty of occasions where the fake cop was fully on Crowder's neck. For example https://youtu.be/5qHLXbVDnkc?t=4933
But as I said before, you cant fully replicate the scenario that occurred in real life. People neck and torsos vary. Crowder has a similar weight but he in far better shape then GF sagger body might have been more vulnerable. Also had fentanyl levels that can be fatal in him. The point I would make is that there is ample reasonable doubt, even though the neck move is dangerous.

I did watch the video, and there are numerous instances where the "cop" is in a different position, with his bodyweight in a different position, his feet in a different position (check the front of his left foot firmly on the ground compared to Chauvin's left foot for much of the video with no bodyweight on it and therefore more bodyweight on his knee and onto Floyd), and several times during the course of the "reconstruction" they adjust the "cop" and his position which would have lifted pressure off Crowder.

It's nowhere near an accurate reconstruction and demonstrates nothing of value bar why Crowder should never be given any attention whatsoever.

Billy Mays

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

The manuals says to use a variant of the recovery position, which Chauvin did indeed put him on. GF died in this recovery position. The mistake Chauvin made was not checking his pulse and moving him when he became unresponsive. It is also very possible he placed too much pressure on the neck killing him, alternatively it possible he moved to shoulder as GF stopped responding as below and didnt kill him. It is very unclear.

https://twitter.com/louraguse/status/1379171775876055042

Steven Crowder did a pretty cool reconstruction https://youtu.be/5qHLXbVDnkc?t=4681

Strange way to describe a reenactment of someone being killed

Detritus70

Detritus70 wrote: »

Yes it is, because it is a flat out lie

It is not.

ILoveYourVibes

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm saying that this case isn't racially motivated and you are implying it is.

I think 99% of the world disagrees with you on that.

ohnonotgmail

Deleted User wrote: »

It is not.

do you have a source that says he had 3 times the lethal dose of fentanyl? bearing in mind that a lethal dose is person specific.

ILoveYourVibes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I think 99% of the world disagrees with you on that.

Do you think that Derek chauvin did what he did because he didn't like black people?

BattleCorp

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I think 99% of the world disagrees with you on that.

There's no evidence that Chauvin knelt on George Floyd's neck for an excessive period because he was black. Zero.

Yes, the BLM movement took this incident and ran with it and turned it into a race issue, but that doesn't mean that Chauvin acted the way he did because Floyd was a different race to him.

ILoveYourVibes

Sandor Clegane wrote: »

America does have a problem with systemic racism, while Chauvin isn't an innocent in my opinion, he was put to the sword big time for a wider problem, no evidence in this case suggests it's race related, he's been used as a scapegoat but at the same time I struggle to find much sympathy for him, so many of his actions were hugely unnecessary and callous and he's paying for it.

He wasn't put to the sword.

Even the guy who ran the course who trained him said what he was doing WAS NOT what he was taught to do.


The police haven't come out and said it's ok to kneel on the neck of a man that length of time. (and its never ok to kneel on the neck of a man).

He's no scapegoat. He murdered someone.

People were shouting at him telling him they were going to kill the guy. He had people warn him. He had every chance. There was no need for it.

ILoveYourVibes

BattleCorp wrote: »

There's no evidence that Chauvin knelt on George Floyd's neck for an excessive period because he was black. Zero.

Yes, the BLM movement took this incident and ran with it and turned it into a race issue, but that doesn't mean that Chauvin acted the way he did because Floyd was a different race to him.

Why are so many black people shot unarmed by police then in comparison to white people??

nolivesmatter

Overheal wrote: »

Seems to be an absolutely absurd claim to anyone who has passing familiarity with this case. The defense even used the Rodney King argument, that he had “superhuman” strength. Superhuman. Last I checked blacks were only human.

I’m not sure how one could argue race plays no element when it so clearly does. The best olive branch I can give you is that the prosecutions case did not have to invoke racism as an element in their prosecution to secure convictions. That is not to say that race was not an element, only that it was not instrumental to securing conviction.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-04-03/derek-chauvin-trial-george-floyd-anger

You keep saying, matter of factly, that race wasn’t evident and that there is no proof or evidence that it is. Yet there is. It seems futile now to argue the negative.

Why do you attribute that to race and not to George Floyds size? Or even just the fact that it was a logical (even if untrue) defense attempt to justify the level of force used.

Yellow_Fern

Overheal wrote: »

Seems to be an absolutely absurd claim to anyone who has passing familiarity with this case. The defense even used the Rodney King argument, that he had “superhuman” strength. Superhuman. Last I checked blacks were only human.

I’m not sure how one could argue race plays no element when it so clearly does. The best olive branch I can give you is that the prosecutions case did not have to invoke racism as an element in their prosecution to secure convictions. That is not to say that race was not an element, only that it was not instrumental to securing conviction.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-04-03/derek-chauvin-trial-george-floyd-anger

You keep saying, matter of factly, that race wasn’t evident and that there is no proof or evidence that it is. Yet there is. It seems futile now to argue the negative.

How often do you wrestle guys 3/5 larger than you? Also he asked to put on the ground. Here is the transcript

George Floyd:
I'm claustrophobic , Mr.Officer.
Kueng
Getin the car!
George Floyd:
Okay, man, okay ! I'm not a bad guyman!
Kueng:
Get in the car !
George Floyd:
I'm nota bad guy! Man, [inaudible 00:10:02 . Please, Mr.Officer! Please !
Kueng:
Take a seat !
George Floyd :
Please! Please! No, inaudible 00:10:10 .
Kueng:
Take a seat.
George Floyd:
I can't choke, I can't breathe Mr. Officer ! Please! Please !
Kueng:
Fine.
George Floyd
Mywrist,mywristman. Okay, okay. I want to lay on the ground. I want to lay on the ground. I want to
lay on the ground!
Lane:
your getting in the squad.
George Floyd :
want to lay on the ground ! I'm going down,
Kueng:

going down, I'm going down.

Take a squat
George Floyd
I'm going down
Speaker 9
Bro, you about to have a heartattack and ****man, get in the car!
George Floyd:
I know I can't breathe. I can't breathe
Lane:

crosstalk 00:10:18 ] .

Get him on the ground .
George Floyd:
Let go ofmeman , I can't breathe. I can't breathe.
Lane:
Take a seat
George Floyd :

BattleCorp

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Why are so many black people shot unarmed by police then in comparison to white people??

You are deflecting here.

Where is the evidence that Chauvin did what he did to Floyd because Floyd was black?

nolivesmatter

nolivesmatter wrote: »

Why do you attribute that to race and not to George Floyds size? Or even just the fact that it was a logical (even if untrue) defense attempt to justify the level of force used.

Or the fact that some people off their tits on drugs can be excessively violent and exhibit strength beyond that of which they would usually be capable of.

ILoveYourVibes

nolivesmatter wrote: »

Why do you attribute that to race and not to George Floyds size? Or even just the fact that it was a logical (even if untrue) defense attempt to justify the level of force used.

I watched the entire footage and I came to the conclusion that I myself a tiny woman could have talked to Floyd and there would be no need for anything.

And for clarity, I'm not defending chauvin, I'm simply stating that the race baiting tactics used by BLM, the media and posters on here are disgusting

Overheal

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Excuse me?

Apart from the fact they were different skin colours, what else leads you to believe that there was any race related motivation?

The only thing I can deduce from that is that any thing a white person does to a black person has an element of racism to it.

That's a preposterous position to hold.

I’ve already crossed your goalpost for “any proof or evidence that race was an element in this case”

Now you’re attempting to pivot from that into another specially tailored goalpost.

The answer to the second goalpost is the same as the first: the defense arguing that their actions where justified because Floyd was a big scary black man with superhuman powers.

ILoveYourVibes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I watched the entire footage and I came to the conclusion that I myself a tiny woman could have talked to Floyd and there would be no need for anything.

Lol.

Jesus wept.

ILoveYourVibes

Deleted User wrote: »

Lol.

Jesus wept.

I am sure he did.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

I’ve already crossed your goalpost for “any proof or evidence that race was an element in this case”

Now you’re attempting to pivot from that into another specially tailored goalpost.

The answer to the second goalpost is the same as the first: the defense arguing that their actions where justified because Floyd was a big scary black man with superhuman powers.

A big scary man with superhuman powers. Why are you mentioning "black" other than to fit into your ridiculous racism narrative?

And no, you didn't cross any goalpost. You just simply said that it was racist because he was black and chauvin was white.

drkpower

Overheal wrote: »

Seems to be an absolutely absurd claim to anyone who has passing familiarity with this case. The defense even used the Rodney King argument, that he had “superhuman” strength. Superhuman. Last I checked blacks were only human.

I’m not sure how one could argue race plays no element when it so clearly does. The best olive branch I can give you is that the prosecutions case did not have to invoke racism as an element in their prosecution to secure convictions. That is not to say that race was not an element, only that it was not instrumental to securing conviction.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-04-03/derek-chauvin-trial-george-floyd-anger

You keep saying, matter of factly, that race wasn’t evident and that there is no proof or evidence that it is. Yet there is. It seems futile now to argue the negative.

The prosecution didn’t plead or reference a racial element.
The ‘superhuman’ reference had zero to do with race and was specifically raised with respect to adrenaline surges, coupled with his size and drugs. Big white guys have adrenaline too.

Race may have had a role in Chauvins actions but what is absolutely certain is that it was not any part whatsoever of the state’s case.

Overheal

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And for clarity, I'm not defending chauvin, I'm simply stating that the race baiting tactics used by BLM, the media and posters on here are disgusting

So you’re by your own admission just pushing an agenda more than you are arguing actual fact. You want there to be no race element so you yell there is no race element even after being shown evidence for a race element, because you want to get one over on BLM and the media.

TomSweeney

TomSweeney wrote: »

Add in to the mix the police leaving in droves and who would want to sign up to the police force in the US now ???


USA is lost, we are witnessing the fall of an empire.

Absolutely agree. The process just seems to have sped up rapidly in the past 5 years. America will still be the pre-eminent power in the world for the next 50 years but the end is nigh. China sure as hell aren't dividing themselves along identitarian lines.

Overheal

drkpower wrote: »

The prosecution didn’t plead or reference a racial element.
The ‘superhuman’ reference had zero to do with race and was specifically raised with respect to adrenaline surges, coupled with his size. Big white guys have adrenaline too.

Race may have had a role in Chauvins actions but what is absolutely certain is that it was not any part whatsoever of the state’s case.

Nobody with any awareness of the history behind that legal defense would tend to agree with you.

OMM 0000

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Why are so many black people shot unarmed by police then in comparison to white people??

They aren't.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/national/police-shootings-2019/

You can see 26 unarmed whites were shot, and 12 unarmed blacks were shot.

Looking at the violent crime statistics you can see blacks commit more than 60% as many violent crimes as whites.

https://www.ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/crime/ucr.asp?table_in=2

Based on this we can see unarmed white people are disproportionately targeted by police compared to black people.

I've shown you these figures before but you continue to believe the false narrative that blacks are targeted.

drkpower

Overheal wrote: »

Nobody with any awareness of the history behind that legal defense would tend to agree with you.

Please elaborate

Genuine question.

ILoveYourVibes

Deleted User wrote: »

A big scary man with superhuman powers.

Superhuman's do not exist. Neither does magic.

If he were superhuman why was one mortal man able to put him on the ground and kneel on him?

If he were superhuman why did he die?

Superhumans are things children believe in.

Drugs don't give you superhuman powers.

Faugheen

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And for clarity, I'm not defending chauvin, I'm simply stating that the race baiting tactics used by BLM, the media and posters on here are disgusting

I know, because you act like racism doesn’t exist anywhere, and you don’t believe there are racists on boards.

Thanks for confirming you’re only pushing an agenda like those very posters that I talk about.

ILoveYourVibes

OMM 0000 wrote: »

You can see 26 unarmed whites were shot, and 12 unarmed blacks were shot.

.

And what % population do black people make up?

And yes that IS a rather alarming amount of white people shot who were unarmed.

Maybe something good for everyone can come out of this black lives matter stuff. eh?

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

So you’re by your own admission just pushing an agenda more than you are arguing actual fact. You want there to be no race element so you yell there is no race element even after being shown evidence for a race element, because you want to get one over on BLM and the media.

Nobody showed any evidence of racial elements.

I'm not trying to "get one over" on BLM or the media. I'm sick of race being used as a catch all for everything.

I'm not pushing any agenda.

Racism is a serious issue and to see it bandied about where there is none is disgusting.

Overheal

drkpower wrote: »

Please elaborate

Genuine question.

https://thehill.com/opinion/civil-rights/548698-ignoring-race-at-our-peril-in-the-derek-chauvin-trial

Overheal

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Nobody showed any evidence of racial elements.

I'm not trying to "get one over" on BLM or the media. I'm sick of race being used as a catch all for everything.

I'm not pushing any agenda.

Racism is a serious issue and to see it bandied about where there is none is disgusting.

These two statements appear in conflict.

Faugheen

Faugheen wrote: »

I know, because you act like racism doesn’t exist anywhere, and you don’t believe there are racists on boards.

Thanks for confirming you’re only pushing an agenda like those very posters that I talk about.

Wow.

What a take.

I specifically said there are probably racists on boards, but I have seen no evidence of racism on this thread.

Racism does exist and it is a huge problem. But that doesn't give idiots carte blanche to attribute racism to all situations where the individuals are of a different race.

drkpower

Overheal wrote: »

https://thehill.com/opinion/civil-rights/548698-ignoring-race-at-our-peril-in-the-derek-chauvin-trial

I would prefer you to use your own words and arguments rather than someone else’s.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

These two statements appear in conflict.

It's not an agenda.

I hate racism and I hate people using racism where there is none.

ILoveYourVibes

Deleted User wrote: »

It's not an agenda.

I hate racism and I hate people using racism where there is none.

But why do you get to say where racism is and is not? I mean I trust you are white. Why don't black people get to the be the judge of that?

ILoveYourVibes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Superhuman's do not exist. Neither does magic.

If he were superhuman why was one mortal man able to put him on the ground and kneel on him?

If he were superhuman why did he die?

Superhumans are things children believe in.

Drugs don't give you superhuman powers.

Yes but drugs can allow people to exhibit strength beyond what they are usually capable of.

Overheal

drkpower wrote: »

I would prefer you to use your own words and arguments rather than someone else’s.

Your preference is understood. I offered you that editorial which does a good enough job for my satisfaction. I wasn’t obliged to respond to your post at all. You asked for an elaboration on a broad reaching topic that I don’t frankly feel like regurgitating or plagiarizing when the link will suit anyone who has a “genuine” curiosity for the subject matter, they will go read through.

ILoveYourVibes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

But why do you get to say where racism is and is not? I mean I trust you are white. Why don't black people get to the be the judge of that?

Because there is ZERO we evidence that racism is a factor.

And black people aren't a homogeneous group.

That's slightly racist to think they all have a hive mind don't you think?

Faugheen

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Wow.

What a take.

I specifically said there are probably racists on boards, but I have seen no evidence of racism on this thread.

Racism does exist and it is a huge problem. But that doesn't give idiots carte blanche to attribute racism to all situations where the individuals are of a different race.

There are racists on boards. There is no ‘probably’ about it.

As for this thread, there is because those same posters are showing a similar pattern of behaviour that they bring to any thread involving minorities or immigrants.

That pattern of behaviour is dismiss, deny, deflect and distract.

You believe someone needs to actively use the n-word for them to be be a racist. Not the case. Many racists get through life without ever using a derogatory term.

You keep your head in the sand though.

OMM 0000

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

And what % population do black people make up?

And yes that IS a rather alarming amount of white people shot who were unarmed.

Maybe something good for everyone can come out of this black lives matter stuff. eh?

It's not about population percentage, it's about police interaction.

Black people commit a very large amount of crime even though they are a small percentage of the population.

So when you look at the crime statistics it proves whites are targeted more than blacks.

I understand though no amount of data will change your mind.

Are you even willing to accept the fact 12 unarmed blacks were shot, or are you going to pretend it's 1000s?

Overheal

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Because there is ZERO we evidence that racism is a factor.

And black people aren't a homogeneous group.

That's slightly racist to think they all have a hive mind don't you think?

You’ve already been showed evidence that it played some degree of factor. It seems misplaced to pick this hill to die upon thusly.

Faugheen

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's not an agenda.

I hate racism and I hate people using racism where there is none.

How can you hate racism when you don’t believe it occurs anywhere?

Faugheen

Faugheen wrote: »

There are racists on boards. There is no ‘probably’ about it.

As for this thread, there is because those same posters are showing a similar pattern of behaviour that they bring to any thread involving minorities or immigrants.

That pattern of behaviour is dismiss, deny, deflect and distract.

You believe someone needs to actively use the n-word for them to be be a racist. Not the case. Many racists get through life without ever using a derogatory term.

You keep your head in the sand though.

You keep saying blatant lies. Where did I say that the "n word" needs to be used?

I've stated that racism is real and a problem.

There is no proof or indication that anything about this incident was racist.

You are simply lying and laughably trying to frame me as a racist or a racist sympathiser

ILoveYourVibes

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes but drugs can allow people to exhibit strength beyond what they are usually capable of.

Erm no they don't. Not without specific training. A steroid would do nothing for you against Armstrong on nothing.

ILoveYourVibes

Deleted User wrote: »

There is no proof or indication that anything about this incident was racist.

What if black people say it is?

Faugheen

Faugheen wrote: »

How can you hate racism when you don’t believe it occurs anywhere?

Deleted User wrote: »

I hate racism and I hate people using racism where there is none.

Deleted User wrote: »

Racism does exist and it is a huge problem.

Deleted User wrote: »

Racism is a serious issue and to see it bandied about where there is none is disgusting.

More lies and dishonesty from you

If it can't be framed as the result of racism the very obvious conclusion that Chauvin had no reason to kill him, while being filmed by 5 different cameras, after calling an ambulance for him, shows the whole thing up for a farce..so it has to be racism..

ILoveYourVibes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

What if black people say it is?

What if some black people say it isn't?

Baggly

Deleted User wrote: »

What if some black people say it isn't?

Mod

What if we cut out the whataboutery?