Derek Chauvin murder trial (George Floyd)

Retr0gamer

osarusan wrote: »

This is all true, but the theme of a racist element to the crime has been introduced to the thread in the last 36 hours or so (now that the verdict is in and there's not much to talk about in that sense, the thread has changed completely).

In my case, I haven't been convinced at all by the posts I've seen that there is a racial aspect to it, or to the defence of it.

Within the wider context of American policing and the history of the black community in America, the case being viewed through that wider lens of race-relations was inevitable, but in terms of what happened on the day itself, I don't see the argument that race was obviously a factor.

The same kind of thing could happen, and has happened (Tony Timpa) to non-black victims also.

Doesn't matter of he might have done the same to a white person. That's a strawman argument. The fact is he did what he did and this unfortunately common occurence would most likely have been met with a slap on the wrist for the police officers and they would not have been affected in anyway.

The outcry was to not let police officers away with murdering black people and getting away with it. At the end of the day the outcome for chauvin was the correct one but without the blm movement and bystanders filming what happened there is a very real possibility that these police officers would have gotten with what is a murder, or manslaughter at the very best, with no repercussions.

Yellow_Fern

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Doesn't matter of he might have done the same to a white person. That's a strawman argument. The fact is he did what he did and this unfortunately common occurence would most likely have been met with a slap on the wrist for the police officers and they would not have been affected in anyway.

The outcry was to not let police officers away with murdering black people and getting away with it. At the end of the day the outcome for chauvin was the correct one but without the blm movement and bystanders filming what happened there is a very real possibility that these police officers would have gotten with what is a murder, or manslaughter at the very best, with no repercussions.

If you are saying that the outcome of the trial arose due to the outcry you are saying that there was jury tampering, ie. mob justice. That isn't how it is supposed to work and gives grounds for an appeal.

Potatoeman

Once he was in handcuffs and arrested he was in police custody so they had a duty of care for his safety. Kneeling on someone’s neck while in cuffs is gross negligence at least up to outright murder.

It’s a mistake to link every other case to this as some of the other cases are not nearly as clean cut.

OMM 0000

Potatoeman wrote: »

Once he was in handcuffs and arrested he was in police custody so they had a duty of care for his safety. Kneeling on someone’s neck while in cuffs is gross negligence at least up to outright murder.

It’s a mistake to link every other case to this as some of the other cases are not nearly as clean cut.

I think everyone agrees the kneeling was wrong.

But there is no physical evidence he was choked to death. There is however evidence he had three times the fatal dose of fentanyl in his body and already had breathing problems before any kneeling started.

So I think a fair outcome is the manslaughter charge (criminal negligence) but I think a fair person would accept it is likely he was going to die anyway (three times the fatal dose of fentanyl).

There was no way he was going to get a fair trial.

Yellow_Fern

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

If you are saying that the outcome of the trial arose due to the outcry you are saying that there was jury tampering, ie. mob justice. That isn't how it is supposed to work and gives grounds for an appeal.

I think his point is more that it may have been buried or never have gone to trial.

Retr0gamer

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

If you are saying that the outcome of the trial arose due to the outcry you are saying that there was jury tampering, ie. mob justice. That isn't how it is supposed to work and gives grounds for an appeal.

I'm not though. But thanks for another textbook strawman example.

Retr0gamer

OMM 0000 wrote: »

I think everyone agrees the kneeling was wrong.

But there is no physical evidence he was choked to death. There is however evidence he had three times the fatal dose of fentanyl in his body and already had breathing problems before any kneeling started.

So I think a fair outcome is the manslaughter charge (criminal negligence) but I think a fair person would accept it is likely he was going to die anyway (three times the fatal dose of fentanyl).

There was no way he was going to get a fair trial.

Total lies. Medical reports and experts show that the the cause of death was asphyxiation. That's a fact. It's also based on a physical and medical examination. Therefore physical evidence.

And the level of fetanyl wasn't even close to fatal:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/7239448002

Try again using facts and not right wing confirmation bias.

OMM 0000

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Total lies. Medical reports and experts show that the the cause of death was asphyxiation. That's a fact. It's also based on a physical and medical examination. Therefore physical evidence.

And the level of fetanyl wasn't even close to fatal:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/7239448002

Try again using facts and not right wing confirmation bias.

You shouldn't be so aggressive when you don't know what you're talking about. You're just making a fool of yourself.

1. Asphyxiation is a symptom of fentanyl overdose. https://mayoclinic.pure.elsevier.com/en/publications/asphyxiation-with-a-fentanyl-patch

2. The medical examiners admitted there was no evidence of asphyxiation due to choking.

3. Did you even read the article you linked to? It says he had 11 nanograms per millilitre of fentanyl in his system. Looking at the data (https://watermark.silverchair.com/bks005.pdf?token=AQECAHi208BE49Ooan9kkhW_Ercy7Dm3ZL_9Cf3qfKAc485ysgAAApgwggKUBgkqhkiG9w0BBwagggKFMIICgQIBADCCAnoGCSqGSIb3DQEHATAeBglghkgBZQMEAS4wEQQMSCWIr5zUbtacdAGaAgEQgIICS8aaTezYsrdD9S6Ifgv-TVuzdWCXkesLQatYShFGr7kAuU5hBQY8EAl_Af-yFyqm1jMWC3CfXqKkWpBCtrrff7CmlJrzeLXvg4lDvJSTr__wXaGs0ZlJsjf4ywPx5WYpjbkrC5MlzOS7GUZ9oPCzOs3rnwdAftYab-OXccN0I9hnJgl_V3eHbPI_rkBsVGi7a9OjgdR4v8uKC6lbBwu4ZraMpzo68JEZT5UVFJeNlgIj2j3IGhAmwRnCiwwj70LBdlrINHg8nrWOW4nWj8EeFrxGesQT0LSg5--xpuG-mkEHstv5hp88GSYgInTrCIjQRKCOwnLf9DhHVQaKjJ_mamvR1NlG1NJAOvvt_SNbDgvod74kO_a5GSpvYdAv99E9HCRZMWE7vmy7dp0g2l6Oa13TW9TgUg-22HiL2O7b65ABhW0W7TIQCc0Gv_pZZ5RIUFlMUlu9exP-ZRkrtZzqPeJv8yXRvuSISmVJgMOnoz9pxtcs-4_HsFoQYADJo66sAvcoiRj0a6TnX-BHSuX-1-A32B_vN9xkY3e4Q2fCA9j676bEd2S6SdorvUaw6ytXcT-1m_Tc_t6GVpahNFT5PpUGonvPEZqsUsgkpMAu1Rj4iqT94OkNgUmtBbScFkO9vKBA2crbmPRxLfmaW9ohaEbCBur10EerInSwsX27oVnIYSSrLDjqs6Da8te92fSD3oC8_xJIGWirOgiXJefijW7Hr1FyP_9-pWMOtSMHIHTerNnGLAUNyh_gXoOWwbWOX0mDh0AhRLYsJnOb) we can see if 100 people took this dose, over 95% of them would die, and most would die with less than half this amount.

Here's some advice: start looking at the data, you'll have a better understanding of things.

Mic 1972

OMM 0000 wrote: »

I think everyone agrees the kneeling was wrong.

But there is no physical evidence he was choked to death. There is however evidence he had three times the fatal dose of fentanyl in his body and already had breathing problems before any kneeling started.

So I think a fair outcome is the manslaughter charge (criminal negligence) but I think a fair person would accept it is likely he was going to die anyway (three times the fatal dose of fentanyl).

There was no way he was going to get a fair trial.

Derek Chauvin was made an example of, to further the systemic racist narrative that have proven so successful for democrats so far.
This was not a racist murder and George Floyd was going to die regardless

ohnonotgmail

Mic 1972 wrote: »

Derek Chauvin was made an example of, to further the systemic racist narrative that have proven so successful for democrats so far.
This was not a racist murder and George Floyd was going to die regardless

we are all going to die regardless. Preferably without a police officer kneeling on our neck for 9 minutes.

MeMen2_MoRi_

OMM 0000 wrote: »

You shouldn't be so aggressive when you don't know what you're talking about. You're just making a fool of yourself.

1. Asphyxiation is a symptom of fentanyl overdose. https://mayoclinic.pure.elsevier.com/en/publications/asphyxiation-with-a-fentanyl-patch

2. The medical examiners admitted there was no evidence of asphyxiation due to choking.

3. Did you even read the article you linked to? It says he had 11 nanograms per millilitre of fentanyl in his system. Looking at the data (https://watermark.silverchair.com/bks005.pdf?token=AQECAHi208BE49Ooan9kkhW_Ercy7Dm3ZL_9Cf3qfKAc485ysgAAApgwggKUBgkqhkiG9w0BBwagggKFMIICgQIBADCCAnoGCSqGSIb3DQEHATAeBglghkgBZQMEAS4wEQQMSCWIr5zUbtacdAGaAgEQgIICS8aaTezYsrdD9S6Ifgv-TVuzdWCXkesLQatYShFGr7kAuU5hBQY8EAl_Af-yFyqm1jMWC3CfXqKkWpBCtrrff7CmlJrzeLXvg4lDvJSTr__wXaGs0ZlJsjf4ywPx5WYpjbkrC5MlzOS7GUZ9oPCzOs3rnwdAftYab-OXccN0I9hnJgl_V3eHbPI_rkBsVGi7a9OjgdR4v8uKC6lbBwu4ZraMpzo68JEZT5UVFJeNlgIj2j3IGhAmwRnCiwwj70LBdlrINHg8nrWOW4nWj8EeFrxGesQT0LSg5--xpuG-mkEHstv5hp88GSYgInTrCIjQRKCOwnLf9DhHVQaKjJ_mamvR1NlG1NJAOvvt_SNbDgvod74kO_a5GSpvYdAv99E9HCRZMWE7vmy7dp0g2l6Oa13TW9TgUg-22HiL2O7b65ABhW0W7TIQCc0Gv_pZZ5RIUFlMUlu9exP-ZRkrtZzqPeJv8yXRvuSISmVJgMOnoz9pxtcs-4_HsFoQYADJo66sAvcoiRj0a6TnX-BHSuX-1-A32B_vN9xkY3e4Q2fCA9j676bEd2S6SdorvUaw6ytXcT-1m_Tc_t6GVpahNFT5PpUGonvPEZqsUsgkpMAu1Rj4iqT94OkNgUmtBbScFkO9vKBA2crbmPRxLfmaW9ohaEbCBur10EerInSwsX27oVnIYSSrLDjqs6Da8te92fSD3oC8_xJIGWirOgiXJefijW7Hr1FyP_9-pWMOtSMHIHTerNnGLAUNyh_gXoOWwbWOX0mDh0AhRLYsJnOb) we can see if 100 people took this dose, over 95% of them would die, and most would die with less than half this amount.

Here's some advice: start looking at the data, you'll have a better understanding of things.

Should also be noted that dying from asphyxiation leaves no "finger print" in autopsy as was testified.

Data can be used and abused, from my own experience of using drugs. I built up a tolerance to the point were I was using double to get the normal high coming to the end of my time using drugs.

OMM 0000

MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »

Should also be noted that dying from asphyxiation leaves no "finger print" in autopsy as was testified.

Data can be used and abused, from my own experience of using drugs. I built up a tolerance to the point were I was using double to get the normal high coming to the end of my time using drugs.

Yes but choking leaves a mark.

Would you agree from watching the video that Floyd appeared to be in trouble (potentially overdosing... hence his repeated claims that he can't breath) when he was arrested?

Many people here are acting like he was perfectly healthy and then a racist police officer decided to choke him to death.

Yellow_Fern

OMM 0000 wrote: »

You shouldn't be so aggressive when you don't know what you're talking about. You're just making a fool of yourself.

1. Asphyxiation is a symptom of fentanyl overdose. https://mayoclinic.pure.elsevier.com/en/publications/asphyxiation-with-a-fentanyl-patch

2. The medical examiners admitted there was no evidence of asphyxiation due to choking.

3. Did you even read the article you linked to? It says he had 11 nanograms per millilitre of fentanyl in his system. Looking at the data (https://watermark.silverchair.com/bks005.pdf?

Can you provide a full citation as I cant get the link working.

Retr0gamer

OMM 0000 wrote: »

You shouldn't be so aggressive when you don't know what you're talking about. You're just making a fool of yourself.

1. Asphyxiation is a symptom of fentanyl overdose. https://mayoclinic.pure.elsevier.com/en/publications/asphyxiation-with-a-fentanyl-patch

2. The medical examiners admitted there was no evidence of asphyxiation due to choking.

3. Did you even read the article you linked to? It says he had 11 nanograms per millilitre of fentanyl in his system. Looking at the data (https://watermark.silverchair.com/bks005.pdf?token=AQECAHi208BE49Ooan9kkhW_Ercy7Dm3ZL_9Cf3qfKAc485ysgAAApgwggKUBgkqhkiG9w0BBwagggKFMIICgQIBADCCAnoGCSqGSIb3DQEHATAeBglghkgBZQMEAS4wEQQMSCWIr5zUbtacdAGaAgEQgIICS8aaTezYsrdD9S6Ifgv-TVuzdWCXkesLQatYShFGr7kAuU5hBQY8EAl_Af-yFyqm1jMWC3CfXqKkWpBCtrrff7CmlJrzeLXvg4lDvJSTr__wXaGs0ZlJsjf4ywPx5WYpjbkrC5MlzOS7GUZ9oPCzOs3rnwdAftYab-OXccN0I9hnJgl_V3eHbPI_rkBsVGi7a9OjgdR4v8uKC6lbBwu4ZraMpzo68JEZT5UVFJeNlgIj2j3IGhAmwRnCiwwj70LBdlrINHg8nrWOW4nWj8EeFrxGesQT0LSg5--xpuG-mkEHstv5hp88GSYgInTrCIjQRKCOwnLf9DhHVQaKjJ_mamvR1NlG1NJAOvvt_SNbDgvod74kO_a5GSpvYdAv99E9HCRZMWE7vmy7dp0g2l6Oa13TW9TgUg-22HiL2O7b65ABhW0W7TIQCc0Gv_pZZ5RIUFlMUlu9exP-ZRkrtZzqPeJv8yXRvuSISmVJgMOnoz9pxtcs-4_HsFoQYADJo66sAvcoiRj0a6TnX-BHSuX-1-A32B_vN9xkY3e4Q2fCA9j676bEd2S6SdorvUaw6ytXcT-1m_Tc_t6GVpahNFT5PpUGonvPEZqsUsgkpMAu1Rj4iqT94OkNgUmtBbScFkO9vKBA2crbmPRxLfmaW9ohaEbCBur10EerInSwsX27oVnIYSSrLDjqs6Da8te92fSD3oC8_xJIGWirOgiXJefijW7Hr1FyP_9-pWMOtSMHIHTerNnGLAUNyh_gXoOWwbWOX0mDh0AhRLYsJnOb) we can see if 100 people took this dose, over 95% of them would die, and most would die with less than half this amount.

Here's some advice: start looking at the data, you'll have a better understanding of things.

Some advice for you: Don't argue about things you don't know understand. Because like at the moment you might be arguing about pharmaceuticals with someone with a doctorate in pharmaceuticals.

There's only one fool here and that's the person cherrypicking information they don't fully understand to suit their agenda.

Retr0gamer

MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »

Should also be noted that dying from asphyxiation leaves no "finger print" in autopsy as was testified.

Data can be used and abused, from my own experience of using drugs. I built up a tolerance to the point were I was using double to get the normal high coming to the end of my time using drugs.

Asphyxiation from drugs might leave no fingerprint, but a knee on the neck for 8 minutes leaves bruises, internal bleeding and telltale signs like blood clots and blood vessel ruptures in the eyes.

OMM 0000

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

Can you provide a full citation as I cant get the link working.

If you google "fentanyl overdose nanogram oxford" it's the second link.

Penn

MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »

Data can be used and abused, from my own experience of using drugs. I built up a tolerance to the point were I was using double to get the normal high coming to the end of my time using drugs.

Which is why a lot of addicts overdose after rehab if they start taking drugs again. They go back onto the same amount of drugs they'd previously been on, but their tolerance for same had dropped, so that same amount has become a fatal level.

A fatal level for the average person wouldn't necessarily be a fatal level for George Floyd who regularly took drugs and therefore had a different tolerance.

OMM 0000

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Some advice for you: Don't argue about things you don't know understand. Because like at the moment you might be arguing about pharmaceuticals with someone with a doctorate in pharmaceuticals.

There's only one fool here and that's the person cherrypicking information they don't fully understand to suit their agenda.

That's just beyond pathetic.

I provide a link to a paper in the Journal of Analytical Toxicology showing the fentanyl overdose amounts and your response is to pretend you know more than everyone and insult me.

Jesus... maybe get some fresh air.

MeMen2_MoRi_

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Yes but choking leaves a mark.

Would you agree from watching the video that Floyd appeared to be in trouble (potentially overdosing... hence his repeated claims that he can't breath) when he was arrested?

Many people here are acting like he was perfectly healthy and then a racist police officer decided to choke him to death.

He wasn't choked (hands around the neck) it was the slow reducing of sufficient air getting into his lungs that killed him..

No I wouldn't agree, everyone doesn't want to hear the words George spoke that day. Why, because we all know his violent criminal past so we don't give a crap about him. We just want to excuse away the responsibility that chauvin and the other 3 have on the out come of that situation..

George could of been suffering a panic attack (if you haven't suffered from this, they suck).

OMM 0000

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Are you one of the 2 people who signed off on the autopsy of this poor man?

What do you have to gain by arguing on a rare sunny Irish afternoon about a now convicted murderer??

One very sad thing this thread has shown is that there is a scary amount of racists and Trump lovers in Ireland (assuming these people are not paid trolls in St Petersburg somewhere), there must be no room left in the rotten woodwork

Someone here needs to provide facts and data. There's too many people who are ignoring reality. I don't understand why, what do they gain from creating a fake reality. Even you're doing this, pretending this thread is full of racists.

Yellow_Fern

Message for Moscow, I would be delighted to receive payments for my posting here. PM me.

Retr0gamer

OMM 0000 wrote: »

That's just beyond pathetic.

I provide a link to a paper in the Journal of Analytical Toxicology showing the fentanyl overdose amounts and your response is to pretend you know more than everyone and insult me.

Jesus... maybe get some fresh air.

I very much doubt you've read it yourself as you need access to academic journals to read it the full text. Good thing I have. To summarize, at the levels in his blood it would be well below the dose to give an anaesthesia effect let alone be lethal.

Lower levels of fentanyl have lead to death but only in cases which involved a serious cocktail of other drugs.

walshb

On RTE now trying to link and compare the racist murder of Stephen Lawrence by racist thugs in England to George Floyd’s death...

Retr0gamer

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Someone here needs to provide facts and data. There's too many people who are ignoring reality. I don't understand why, what do they gain from creating a fake reality. Even you're doing this, pretending this thread is full of racists.

Lay off the confirmation bias then. I'll take the opinion of the medical experts over you and your degree in google-fu.

MeMen2_MoRi_

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Asphyxiation from drugs might leave no fingerprint, but a knee on the neck for 8 minutes leaves bruises, internal bleeding and telltale signs like blood clots and blood vessel ruptures in the eyes.

Not talking about the drugs.. the use of the knee, the position of the body, position of the hand.. all of these factors caused the asphyxiation

walshb

Dobbo has a lawyer on claiming institutional and systemic racism in Britain.

Dobbo, do you think he’d challenge him, ask him for examples, proof, reasons? Even to give the listeners an idea on this.

No, no...away you go there unchallenged..

OMM 0000

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I very much doubt you've read it yourself as you need access to academic journals to read it the full text. Good thing I have. To summarize, at the levels in his blood it would be well below the dose to give an anaesthesia effect let alone be lethal.

Lower levels of fentanyl have lead to death but only in cases which involved a serious cocktail of other drugs.

Stop lying, it's all in the journal. They literally give a table of median and mean values.

OMM 0000

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Lay off the confirmation bias then. I'll take the opinion of the medical experts over you and your degree in google-fu.

I have a PhD. Look at my post history.

Foxtrol

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

The correct verdict in my opinion. I don’t think anyone can dispute that Chauvin got what he deserves.

I would question however whether he actually got, and could ever really have gotten, a fair trial. And before anyone jumps down my throat I mean fair only in the sense of facing an unbiased jury. I honestly don’t believe there is a single juror anywhere in the States that wouldn’t have convicted him.

Have you read this thread of Irish people saying they wouldn't have convicted him, there is a big group in the US that are even more blinkered.

Once again he deserves his punishment, I am not in any way disputing that.

Also is it asking to much of people to stop acting as though George Floyd was a saint or some innocent man minding his own business who was attacked out of nowhere by the big bad cops.

He was far from a saint as evidenced by his criminal record and on the day in question he was clearly on drugs and causing problems for the store staff. They were within their rights to call the police and the police were within their rights to restrain him when he resisted arrest.

Chauvin went over and above restraint though - there is never any need to press your knee into some-ones neck.

Ultimately though only Chauvin truly knows why he did it. My own inkling is it was racially motivated but I doubt we will ever know sure.

What has the victims past got to do with it? The alleged crime in this instance was using a forged $20 bill.

If you want to talk about relevant history, how about Chauvin's long documented history of violence against civilians and the obvious history of cover ups by his fellow cops, including this murder. They all have blood on their hands.

BattleCorp

Foxtrol wrote: »

If you want to talk about relevant history, how about Chauvin's long documented history of violence against civilians and the obvious history of cover ups by his fellow cops, including this murder. They all have blood on their hands.

Can you tell me what cops tried to cover up the George Floyd murder?

MeMen2_MoRi_

BattleCorp wrote: »

Can you tell me what cops tried to cover up the George Floyd murder?

Official MPD statement at the time..

https://twitter.com/kenklippenstein/status/1384662563808497667?s=19

When they were receiving/received calls about the cops actions they still thought it a good idea to release that

BattleCorp

MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »

Official MPD statement at the time..

https://twitter.com/kenklippenstein/status/1384662563808497667?s=19

When they were receiving/received calls about the cops actions they still thought it a good idea to release that

Thanks for that.

Retr0gamer

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Stop lying, it's all in the journal. They literally give a table of median and mean values.

Think you need to check your figures again.

OMM 0000 wrote: »

I have a PhD. Look at my post history.

Hopefully not in the pharma/science or medical field.

OMM 0000

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Think you need to check your figures again.

Instead of all this constant innuendo why you don't point out which bit is wrong?

Page 186 of the paper I linked to shows the mean and median of fentanyl overdosing dosage.

Are you saying the authors of the paper are lying?

Why can't you provide any numbers?

I think we all know you're just doing that stupid thing where you can't admit you're wrong, so you're just going to keep insulting me over and over in the hope I give up and you "win". And you're a moderator. Holy cow.

Mellor

OMM 0000 wrote: »

But there is no physical evidence he was choked to death.

You mean other than his cardio pulmonary system failing?

There is however evidence he had three times the fatal dose of fentanyl in his body and already had breathing problems before any kneeling started.
.

Except he didn’t have 3 times a fatal dose.
The dose he had (11ng) was in range used for anaesthesia (10-20ng). A fatal dose could be multiple times that.

Mellor

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Yes but choking leaves a mark.

No it doesn’t.
This idea of no bruises means he couldn’t have been choked is fantasy.

OMM 0000

Mellor wrote: »

You mean other than his cardio pulmonary system failing?

Which is what happens when you have a fentanyl overdose.

Mellor wrote: »

Except he didn’t have 3 times a fatal dose.
The dose he had (11ng) was in range used for anaesthesia (10-20ng). A fatal dose could be multiple times that.

You're misunderstanding blood sample concentration with dosage.

It's normal to receive far more than 10 - 20 nanograms as medicine, but a blood sample concentration of 11 nanograms is extremely high, and would kill more than 95% of people, even half that would kill most people.

I've already linked to a paper showing these numbers.

OMM 0000

Mellor wrote: »

No it doesn’t.
This idea of no bruises means he couldn’t have been choked is fantasy.

I'm not just talking about bruising.

Did you even watch any of the trial?

You keep saying incorrect things. Perhaps stop having such strong opinions on things you don't understand.

MeMen2_MoRi_

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Which is what happens when you have a fentanyl overdose.



You're misunderstanding blood sample concentration with dosage.

It's normal to receive far more than 10 - 20 nanograms as medicine, but a blood sample concentration of 11 nanograms is extremely high, and would kill more than 95% of people, even half that would kill most people.

I've already linked to a paper showing these numbers.

Fentanyl overdose comes about from slowing the breathing and putting the person into a state of coma.. all testimonies in court from the experts they seen no evidence of an overdose occuring (even Fowler couldn't couldn't say it was an overdose).

Mellor

OMM 0000 wrote: »

You're misunderstanding blood sample concentration with dosage.

It's normal to receive far more than 10 - 20 nanograms as medicine, but a blood sample concentration of 11 nanograms is extremely high, and would kill more than 95% of people, even half that would kill most people.

I've already linked to a paper showing these numbers.

No I’m not mixing them up. They are different units. mg and ng/ml

A fatal dose as administered, is 2-3mg. That’s 2,000,000 - 3,000,000ng. You are off by 5 orders of magnitude.
10-20ng/ml is an anaesthetic dose in a clinical setting.. I’ve posted this previously.

You didn’t link to a paper. Post posted a dead link. Feel free to repost.
I googled the phrase you said and went to the second link.

The average and median femoral blood concentration of fentanyl was 18 and 20 ng/mL (range: <1–45 ng/mL), and morphine 140 and 80 ng/mL (range: 20–400 ng/mL), respectively.

Median value fir overdose was 20, some as high as 45ng/ml.
But the key part, that you aren’t grasping. If that they all died from heroin laced with fentanyl. So in addition they had up to 400ng/ml of morphine. It’s the combine effect that kills that.

OMM 0000 wrote: »

I'm not just talking about bruising.

You said bruising before and above.

What else are you talking about? Because I guarantee you spouting more nonsense.

You keep saying incorrect things. Perhaps stop having such strong opinions on things you don't understand.

Lol. Nice deflection attempt. Pointing out your lies is not saying incorrect things. That’s all your contributed to the thread.

OMM 0000

MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »

Fentanyl overdose comes about from slowing the breathing and putting the person into a state of coma.. all testimonies in court from the experts they seen no evidence of an overdose occuring (even Fowler couldn't couldn't say it was an overdose).

This is the thing.

There is no evidence he was choked, we can't say for sure he died of an overdose (although we know 95% of people would die from the level of fentanyl he had in his blood).

What we know for sure is he required medical help (he said he can't breath before the kneeing started) but Chauvin chose to hold him on the ground until he died.

So Chauvin needed prison time, but this weird US-style extremism seems to have invaded Ireland, so many people here are pretending this was a racist killing, fentanyl had nothing to do with it (despite the evidence), and he was definitely choked to death (despite the lack of evidence).

How about people just be reasonable and admit the dude was overdosing and the piece of **** cop prevented him from getting help so he died.

OMM 0000

Mellor wrote: »

No I’m not mixing them up. They are different units. mg and ng/ml

Immediately with the misunderstanding

microgram per litre and nanogram per millilitre are the same thing.

Jesus Christ man, this is basic stuff, stop making a fool of yourself.

MeMen2_MoRi_

OMM 0000 wrote: »

This is the thing.

There is no evidence he was choked, we can't say for sure he died of an overdose (although we know 95% of people would die from the level of fentanyl he had in his blood).

What we know for sure is he required medical help (he said he can't breath before the kneeing started) but Chauvin chose to hold him on the ground until he died.

So Chauvin needed prison time, but this weird US-style extremism seems to have invaded Ireland, so many people here are pretending this was a racist killing, fentanyl had nothing to do with it (despite the evidence), and he was definitely choked to death (despite the lack of evidence).

How about people just be reasonable and admit the dude was overdosing and the piece of **** cop prevented him from getting help so he died.

Cause he wasn't overdosing. Have you completely removed the fact that George was a regular drug user, that people who regularly use drugs build up a tolerance, for the data set you reference there's also the 5% that don't die, can we put George in that 5%? Or is it he's definitely In the 95%

I'm in camp of it wasn't racism.

Mellor

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Immediately with the misunderstanding

microgram per litre and nanogram per millilitre are the same thing.

Nobody mentioned microgram per litre in the thread
A 2mg fatal dose refers to the total amount administered. Not per ml of blood.
And mg stands for milligram not microgram. Microgram is ug.

Jesus Christ man, this is basic stuff, stop making a fool of yourself.

Haha. The absolute irony of this. I agree it’s simple basic stuff. You are mixing up simply letter. It’s nothing even chemistry but basic reading comprehension. Didn’t you claim to have a Phd above? Dubious.

Retr0gamer

Thanks for doing my hard for explaining that units are very important in science.

Also to note is that there's another clue in the title.

A death from fentanyl overdose.

While the science in the paper is sound, and they also got their units right unlike some hear, it's also a gross scientific fallacy to give a sweeping statement about lethal dose levels based on a single case. Even more so if you don't understand how units work.

OMM 0000

Mellor wrote: »

Nobody mentioned microgram per litre in the thread
A 2mg fatal dose refers to the total amount administered. Not per ml of blood.
And mg stands for milligram not microgram. Microgram is ug.

Haha. The absolute irony of this. I agree it’s simple basic stuff. You are mixing up simply letter. It’s nothing even chemistry but basic reading comprehension. Didn’t you claim to have a Phd above? Dubious.

Is this a joke?

You said this:

They are different units. mg and ng/ml

You were trying to imply I've mixed up the units.

But it's you who've mixed them up.

The paper I linked to is using micrograms per litre, which is the same as nanograms per millilitre.

This is deranged, you'll literally say anything to try to avoid admitting you're wrong. I shouldn't talk to you so I have to add you to my ignore list.

OMM 0000

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Thanks for doing my hard for explaining that units are very important in science.

Also to note is that there's another clue in the title.

A death from fentanyl overdose.

While the science in the paper is sound, and they also got their units right unlike some hear, it's also a gross scientific fallacy to give a sweeping statement about lethal dose levels based on a single case. Even more so if you don't understand how units work.

Micrograms per litre are the same as nanograms per millilitre.

Are you going to keep gaslighting everyone?

Page 186 of the paper I linked to clearly proves you are wrong, but instead of learning something new and showing a bit of decency, you have to gaslight. Shameful.

Retr0gamer

OMM 0000 wrote: »

The paper I linked to is using micrograms per litre, which is the same as nanograms per millilitre.

No it's not. You're 3 orders of magnitude off.

You are confusing milli with micro.

OMM 0000

Retr0gamer wrote: »

No it's not. You're 3 orders of magnitude off.

Again with the lying.

Here's a literal screenshot from the paper:

https://imgur.com/a/reBAJNT

micrograms per litre.

Yellow_Fern

I think there is another common paper that cites 2mg of fentanyl as a fatal dose but I understand a fatal dose is a dose that kills everyone, not 95 in 100 addicts, really everyone. Very different concepts right?