Derek Chauvin murder trial (George Floyd)

Muahahaha

ELM327 wrote: »

Let's see what the jury decide. Suffice it to say I agree to disagree with you on this one.

So why do you think that Chavin needed to put his knee on his neck for over 9 minutes, what purpose did it serve? Put it this way if you were in Floyds place and were face down on the ground, arms behind your back and wrists handcuffed do you think you could 1) get up to your feet and 2) outrun a cop, an armed one no less, whilst in handcuffs? What threat did Floyd pose to police in the position he was in, completely disabled and handcuffed? Bar spitting at them I cant see any threat

Nozebleed wrote: »

is the trial being televised? any links??

Court TV are live streaming it when its on, still early morning there so its probably not started yet
https://www.courttv.com/news/how-to-watch-chauvin-death-of-george-floyd-murder-trial/

ELM327

MrStuffins wrote: »

Exactly what I spoke about early in the thread. Wow!

Yes yes, you've placed a trigger on the word mob.
What would you like to call the groups of protestors that have already decided that officer chauvin is guilty?

KeepItLight

I've been choked before. The scariest thing about it is that I couldn't say anything because no air was being passed though my throat, so I'm doubting he was actually choked to death if he could say "I can't breathe" repeatedly. I'm sure the debate about the actual cause of death will be front and center of this trial and the sentencing. Manslaughter sounds about right.

Eric Cartman

Talk of lightening restrictions on protests today here. I have a feeling we’re in for a BLM superspreader event in dublin based on the outcome of this.... that late inclusion is awfully coincidental.

MrStuffins

ELM327 wrote: »

IMO based on current evidence, something like involuntary manslaughter could be an option,

So you admit Chavin killed Floyd.

No imaginary job needed!

ELM327

Muahahaha wrote: »

So why would you think that Chavin needed to put his knee on his neck for over 9 minutes, what purpose did it serve? Put it this way if you were in Floyds place and were face down on the ground, arms behind your back and wrists handcuffed do you think you could 1) get up to your feet and 2) outrun a cop, an armed one no less, whilst in handcuffs?

If I had a 6 inch and 50 lb advantage over the cop, after resisting already, and off my face on narcotics, I'd rate my chances highly of getting to my feet and resisting some more.

ohnonotgmail

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

really? what facts are you unsure about and how are they relevant?

I won't know until the defence and prosecution present their evidence.

That's the point of a trial isn't it?

It would be profoundly ridiculous to assume I knew everything that is going to be presented.

ohnonotgmail

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Talk of lightening restrictions on protests today here. I have a feeling we’re in for a BLM superspreader event in dublin based on the outcome of this.... that late inclusion is awfully coincidental.

jeez, talk about paranoid. the irish government decide to lift restrictions just because a trial has started in a different jurisdiction. I know you normally post nonsense but that is exceptional.

seamus

ELM327 wrote: »

I did not dodge the question, I answered it.
I believe he was likely to have suffered a cardiac event as he had swallowed all of the narcotics he was carrying when the police arrived so as not to be caught.

Right so. You believe that you, an (unqualified?) individual several thousand KM away from the incident and with access only to third-hand reports of the situation, have sufficient insight into the case to dispute the findings of the medical professionals who performed autopsies and toxicology reports on Floyd?

Can you see how crazy that sounds?

Christy42

KeepItLight wrote: »

I've been choked before. The scariest thing about it is that I couldn't say anything because no air was being passed though my throat, so I'm doubting he was actually choked to death if he could say "I can't breathe" repeatedly. I'm sure the debate about the actual cause of death will be front and center of this trial and the sentencing. Manslaughter sounds about right.

Given we have 2 autopsy reports giving the cause of death it seems likely they will be believed as the cause of death. Unless someone takes issue with how they were performed.

ELM327

MrStuffins wrote: »

So you admit Chavin killed Floyd.

No imaginary job needed!

"Killed" is a term that may or may not imply intent.


What happened is clearly a man died, another man took an action directly before his death, and could have somewhat contributed to the death


That to me is an involuntary consequence of an act not intended to cause what it did, and an act in line with MN police policy at the time.


Involuntary manslaughter is the most that officer chauvin could be guilty of.

ohnonotgmail

KeepItLight wrote: »

I've been choked before. The scariest thing about it is that I couldn't say anything because no air was being passed though my throat, so I'm doubting he was actually choked to death if he could say "I can't breathe" repeatedly. I'm sure the debate about the actual cause of death will be front and center of this trial and the sentencing. Manslaughter sounds about right.

doubt all you want but you're wrong.

MrStuffins

ELM327 wrote: »

"Killed" is a term that may or may not imply intent.


What happened is clearly a man died, another man took an action directly before his death, and could have somewhat contributed to the death


That to me is an involuntary consequence of an act not intended to cause what it did, and an act in line with MN police policy at the time.


Involuntary manslaughter is the most that officer chauvin could be guilty of.

Yes, so you agree that Mr Chavin killed Mr Floyd.

He should go to prison for it.

Mins or no mobs

ELM327

seamus wrote: »

Right so. You believe that you, an (unqualified?) individual several thousand KM away from the incident and with access only to third-hand reports of the situation, have sufficient insight into the case to dispute the findings of the medical professionals who performed autopsies and toxicology reports on Floyd?

Can you see how crazy that sounds?

I am , like probably 100% of posters on this thread, "an (unqualified?) individual several thousand KM away from the incident and with access only to third-hand reports of the situation,"


I see fit to form an opinion based on first and third hand reports , same as everyone else. The fact that my opinion differs to yours is fine, and frankly based on your posting history is to be expected.

ELM327

MrStuffins wrote: »

Yes, so you agree that Mr Chavin killed Mr Floyd.

He should go to prison for it.

Mins or no mobs

I would be satisfied that an involuntary manslaughter charge, which carries a 6-8yr term AFAIK, is a harsh but fair application of the law.


If I were officer Chauvin, I would be aggrieved as I felt I followed the guidelines and training I was given.

ELM327

MrStuffins wrote: »

Do you dispute the findings of the autopsies? If so, why?

The autopsies were clearly done based on the facts available at the time.

Death during police detention.

osarusan

I can see how it could be argued that he is justified in initially using his knee to restrain Floyd when he was conscious and agressive and dangerous, but I can't see how the defence can argue that continuing to restrain him in that manner even after he presented no imminent threat (because he was not even conscious) is still justified rather than reckless.

ohnonotgmail

ELM327 wrote: »

I am , like probably 100% of posters on this thread, "an (unqualified?) individual several thousand KM away from the incident and with access only to third-hand reports of the situation,"


I see fit to form an opinion based on first and third hand reports , same as everyone else. The fact that my opinion differs to yours is fine, and frankly based on your posting history is to be expected.

that your opinion is different to other posters here is not the issue. Your opinion also differs from the medical experts who performed the two autopsies. can you explain how you formed that opinion?

KeepItLight

Christy42 wrote: »

Given we have 2 autopsy reports giving the cause of death it seems likely they will be believed as the cause of death. Unless someone takes issue with how they were performed.

Several media publications incl. New York Times and Washington Post seem to concur that the trial will center on proving the cause of death.

KeepItLight

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

doubt all you want but you're wrong.

based on what, your intuition? The trial is still ongoing in case you haven't noticed. Or are you just trying to be snarky?

MrStuffins

ELM327 wrote: »

I would be satisfied that an involuntary manslaughter charge, which carries a 6-8yr term AFAIK, is a harsh but fair application of the law.

So you've admitted that drugs did not lead to Mr Floyd's death, you have agreed with the autopsies and their verdicts of homicide and you admit that Mr Chavin is culpable for the killing of Mr Floyd.

Great

ohnonotgmail

KeepItLight wrote: »

based on what, your intuition? The trial is still ongoing in case you haven't noticed. Or are you just trying to be snarky?

on the autopsies.

ELM327

MrStuffins wrote: »

So you've admitted that drugs did not lead to Mr Floyd's death, you have agreed with the autopsies and their verdicts of homicide and you admit that Mr Chavin is culpable for the killing of Mr Floyd.

Great

That's clearly not what I said, at all.
But if that's what you take from what I said, perhaps it shows how blindly you are adhering to the ACAB white guilt lines.

Is his death recorded in the covid death numbers too?

FileNotFound

Be interesting to see how this all ends.

The Police officer killed the man in the act of restraining him, the man killed was high and acting in a fashion that required restraining.

Have to imagine a manslaughter charge (or whatever equivalent they have) is the way this may go. Then again this is the USA so maybe the cop can claim following protocol etc. with a violent/potenially violent offender? Would seem a strecth considering the length of time they had him pinned.

I assume murder implies pre intent on the cops side - which would be impossible to prove even if it did exist.

Either way - I imagine lots of people will be unhappy with the verdict

KeepItLight

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

on the autopsies.

The trial is still ongoing and determining the cause of death will be front an center as per my previous posts. If the autopsies were that infallible, there would be no need to debate this.

ELM327

KeepItLight wrote: »

based on what, your intuition? The trial is still ongoing in case you haven't noticed. Or are you just trying to be snarky?

The usual trial by social media.


These people were around for other trials too, the rugby trial etc. Convicted before the case and evidence was even heard.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Is his death recorded in the covid death numbers too?

Seek help.

ohnonotgmail

KeepItLight wrote: »

The trial is still ongoing and determining the cause of death will be front an center as per my previous posts. If the autopsies were that infallible, there would be no need to debate this.

the cause of death has been determined. that is what an autopsy does.

MrStuffins

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Is his death recorded in the covid death numbers too?

Wow!