Derek Chauvin murder trial (George Floyd)

ELM327

He had covid but I believe he had recovered?

MrStuffins

ELM327 wrote: »

The usual trial by social media.


These people were around for other trials too, the rugby trial etc. Convicted before the case and evidence was even heard.

In this case, you've indicated yourself that the killing was homicide and that Mr Chavin is culpable.

So if there's a trial by social media like you say, you are contributing

ELM327

MrStuffins wrote: »

In this case, you've indicated yourself that the killing was homicide and that Mr Chavin is culpable.

So if there's a trial by social media like you say, you are contributing

I've indicated my opinion.

MrStuffins

ELM327 wrote: »

I've indicated my opinion.

Agreed

seamus

ELM327 wrote: »

I see fit to form an opinion based on first and third hand reports , same as everyone else.

Sure, but where that opinion differs from the opinion of experts with first-hand access to the data, you're going to be asked to discuss why you believe your insight to be superior.

We can spend all day discussing the grey areas, but if we start disputing things that are effectively legal fact - like the fact that Chauvin kneeling on Floyd is what caused him to die - we may as well give up.

KeepItLight

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

the cause of death has been determined. that is what an autopsy does.

https://www.startribune.com/cause-of-death-at-issue-in-derek-chauvin-trial/600039728/

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/29/us/george-floyd-cause-of-death.html

https://news.wttw.com/2021/03/07/george-floyd-cause-death-ex-cops-force-will-be-keys-trial

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/george-floyd-fentanyl/2021/03/10/c3d4f328-76ec-11eb-9537-496158cc5fd9_story.html

https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/local/arguments-over-cause-death-george-floyd-case/a1202f4b-c47a-4b01-bbd3-a5be757f1d2e/

Not all as infallible and conclusive as you are presuming, apparently.

Northernlily

Northernlily wrote: »

Seek help.

MrStuffins wrote: »

Wow!

I was under the impression that if you died and had covid in your system, you would be recorded in the covid fatality numbers.

I was wondering if this was the case here.

ELM327

seamus wrote: »

Sure, but where that opinion differs from the opinion of experts with first-hand access to the data, you're going to be asked to discuss why you believe your insight to be superior.

We can spend all day discussing the grey areas, but if we start disputing things that are effectively legal fact - like the fact that Chauvin kneeling on Floyd is what caused him to die - we may as well give up.

Can you outline a definition of "legal fact" and how something that has not been tested in a court yet can constitute legal fact.

MrStuffins

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I was under the impression that if you died and had covid in your system, you would be recorded in the covid fatality numbers.

I was wondering if this was the case here.

Your attitude towards the killing of this man says a lot. Incredible!

Snickers Man

Sandor Clegane wrote: »

But the man knelt on his neck pressing his full bodyweight down on him for 9 minutes when he was flat on his stomach and in handcuffs and not resisting plus complaining of not being able to breath...

...this cop had a pivotal role in this mans death,...... cop deserves everything thats coming to him.

apart from what's in red, no quibble.

Eric Cartman

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

jeez, talk about paranoid. the irish government decide to lift restrictions just because a trial has started in a different jurisdiction. I know you normally post nonsense but that is exceptional.

Except that isnt what I said at all, but you knew that, its just easy for you to jump to insane conclusions.

MrStuffins

MrStuffins wrote: »

Your attitude towards the killing of this man says a lot. Incredible!

Excuse me? What attitude?

Asking if his death was included in the official covid fatality figures is not showing any attitude.

Saying I want to see all prosecution and defense evidence before coming to a decision is not showing any attitude.

What attitude should I have exactly?

penny piper

In 2010 David Smith from minneapolis was restrained by officers in much the same way as floyd....they used tasers etc they then decided to remove him from the ymca where he had been causing disruption but because smith was a paid up member he refused ...the police officers said he was resisting them and decided after using the taser gun on him and knocking him to the floor they turned him facedown and one officer put his knee into smiths back for aprox 4mins plus whilst the other police officer restrained the bottom half of his body...using a tactic known as prone restraint (which is allowed in minneapolis) this is known to restrict a person's ability to take in oxygen...when they finally released him he was not breathing...paramedics arrived and the guy lasted for about one week in hospital..
The coronor findings were that he died from mechanical asphyxia caused by the use of the prone restraint...the two officers were put on temporary suspension but were back at work within a month..
The smith family later sued minneapolis city for alledged use of excessive force and were compensated with 3.5million the two officers were cleared of any wrongdoing...officers were suppose to have been retrained in the use of restraint tactics in minneapolis whether they were idk..

So why is derik chavins case any different??? yes yes apart from 9mins but smith's time could have been equally as long held in that position..

ohnonotgmail

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Except that isnt what I said at all, but you knew that, its just easy for you to jump to insane conclusions.

you're fooling nobody

that late inclusion is awfully coincidental.

ELM327

penny piper wrote: »

In 2010 David Smith from minneapolis was restrained by officers in much the same way as floyd....they used tasers etc they then decided to remove him from the ymca where he had been causing disruption but because smith was a paid up member he refused ...the police officers said he was resisting them and decided after using the taser gun on him and knocking him to the floor they turned him facedown and one officer put his knee into smiths back for aprox 4mins plus whilst the other police officer restrained the bottom half of his body...using a tactic known as prone restraint this is known to restrict a person's ability to take in oxygen...when they finally released him he was not breathing...paramedics arrived and the guy lasted for about one week in hospital..
The coronor findings were that he died from mechanical asphyxia caused by the use of the prone restraint...the two officers were put on temporary suspension but were back at work within a month..
The smith family later sued minneapolis city for alledged use of excessive force and were compensated with 3.5million the two officers were cleared of any wrongdoing...officers were suppose to have been retrained in the use of restraint tactics in minneapolis whether they were idk..

So why is derik chavins case any different??? yes yes apart from 9mins but smith's time could have been equally as long held in that position..

The difference is there was no baying mob that time.

MrStuffins

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Excuse me? What attitude?

Asking if his death was included in the official covid fatality figures is not showing any attitude.

Saying I want to see all prosecution and defense evidence before coming to a decision is not showing any attitude.

What attitude should I have exactly?

As the poster below said......

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

you're fooling nobody

Eric Cartman

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

you're fooling nobody

The way youve framed it is that I think all the lifting of restrictions are related to this, I don’t , but Up till yesterday we had no mention of easing restrictions on protesting , not a bit, then since last night that is on the table as part of the easment. We saw the superspreader protests after George died , we saw the superspreader mini riots in blanchardstown , I do believe somebody in the government advisory capacity last night decided that including protesting restrictions easing , knowing that a riot was going to come out of this no matter what is a possibility. The woke brigade love bringing stateside issues here, lifting the restrictions would ease the burden the government would have to deploy in garda respurces to try contain the eventual riot stemming from this.

irelandrover

MrStuffins wrote: »

In this case, you've indicated yourself that the killing was homicide and that Mr Chavin is culpable.

So if there's a trial by social media like you say, you are contributing

Homicide is different in autopsies then the legal definition, right. It just means that someone else contributed to the death. It doesnt mean the actions are unjustified.

MrStuffins

(

MrStuffins wrote: »

As the poster below said......

A non answer. We will leave it there.

In between not answering a direct question and constantly, and intentionally, misrepresenting other posters, I have reason to believe you are arguing in bad faith.

ohnonotgmail

ELM327 wrote: »

The difference is there was no baying mob that time.

the difference is that America as a country is no longer as tolerant to police officers killing people as it once was.

Muahahaha

ELM327 wrote: »

If I had a 6 inch and 50 lb advantage over the cop, after resisting already, and off my face on narcotics, I'd rate my chances highly of getting to my feet and resisting some more.

How would you even get to your feet when your hands are in handcuffs and theres a cop restraining you with a knee on your neck? Are you saying you would be able to get to your feet and then outrun a cop while in handcuffs?

And you didnt answer the question- why do you feel there was a need to restrain Flody with a knee on his neck when he was already face down and handcuffed? Do you not think that restraining him with a knee anywhere on his back would have achieved the same objective of making sure he could not get to his feet and then somehow outrun a cop (armed with a gun, baton and pepper spray) whilst handcuffed?

MrStuffins

irelandrover wrote: »

Homicide is different in autopsies then the legal definition, right. It just means that someone else contributed to the death. It doesnt mean the actions are unjustified.

Homicide is the act of one human killing another.

Mr Chavin killed Mr Floyd according to the autopsies.

ohnonotgmail

Eric Cartman wrote: »

The way youve framed it is that I think all the lifting of restrictions are related to this, I don’t , but Up till yesterday we had no mention of easing restrictions on protesting , not a bit, then since last night that is on the table as part of the easment.

I didnt frame it that way at all. you suggested that this particular lifting of restrictions is linked to the trial that has just started. Tin foil hat lunacy of the highest order.

irelandrover

MrStuffins wrote: »

Homicide is the act of one human killing another.

Mr Chavin killed Mr Floyd according to the autopsies.

That's the legal definition.

This is the autopsy definition:
It is important to note that the medical term “homicide” is different from the legal definition of “homicide.” “Homicide” in medical terms means that the death is caused by either direct or indirect actions of another personor persons. “Homicide” does NOT mean murder, manslaughter or any negligence has occurred.

homicide in the autopsy does not mean that Chauvin is guilty of murder or manslaughter.

Kaybaykwah

kildare lad wrote: »

I think there was more to it than it being about race. I think they knew each other previously as they worked at the same club so there could be bad blood there . In the cops camera everything was going along normally till he started freaking out when they tried to put him in the squad car . So for everyone thinking he just arrested him and started kneeling on his neck it didn't just happen like that . I'm not trying to justify what the cop done but I don't think the cop will get done for murder , as murder has to be premeditated. I still think he'll get locked up though .

You said there was probably bad blood between them but that the cop couldn't be found guilty of premeditating.

???

Might as well toss a coin. What will it be?

MrStuffins

irelandrover wrote: »

That's the legal definition.

This is the autopsy definition:
It is important to note that the medical term “homicide” is different from the legal definition of “homicide.” “Homicide” in medical terms means that the death is caused by either direct or indirect actions of another person or persons.

Yes. The other person in this case being Mr Chavin

riffmongous

penny piper wrote: »

In 2010 David Smith from minneapolis was restrained by officers in much the same way as floyd....they used tasers etc they then decided to remove him from the ymca where he had been causing disruption but because smith was a paid up member he refused ...the police officers said he was resisting them and decided after using the taser gun on him and knocking him to the floor they turned him facedown and one officer put his knee into smiths back for aprox 4mins plus whilst the other police officer restrained the bottom half of his body...using a tactic known as prone restraint (which is allowed in minneapolis) this is known to restrict a person's ability to take in oxygen...when they finally released him he was not breathing...paramedics arrived and the guy lasted for about one week in hospital..
The coronor findings were that he died from mechanical asphyxia caused by the use of the prone restraint...the two officers were put on temporary suspension but were back at work within a month..
The smith family later sued minneapolis city for alledged use of excessive force and were compensated with 3.5million the two officers were cleared of any wrongdoing...officers were suppose to have been retrained in the use of restraint tactics in minneapolis whether they were idk..

So why is derik chavins case any different??? yes yes apart from 9mins but smith's time could have been equally as long held in that position..

Apart from the fact that depriving the brain of oxygen for 4 minutes compared to 9 is literally the difference between life and death

wicklowstevo

I so glad there are so many experts on police procedure, legal experts and people who have years of experience in restraining large highly intoxicated resisting people on the internet

where would the world be with out ye

Fandymo

KaneToad wrote: »

Would you not wait to hear all the evidence first?

Feelings matter more nowadays than facts, didn't you get the memo??

ELM327

Fandymo wrote: »

Feelings matter more nowadays than facts, didn't you get the memo??

It doesnt matter about the trifling matter of a court trial these days. All you need is a memorable hashtag.