Derek Chauvin murder trial (George Floyd)

MrStuffins

wicklowstevo wrote: »

I so glad there are so many experts on police procedure, legal experts and people who have years of experience in restraining large highly intoxicated resisting people on the internet

where would the world be with out ye

If only there were more of them in American law enforcement. Then there would be fewer needless killings.

Assuming this was not pre-meditated murder of course. Giving Mr. Chavin the benefit of the doubt that he did not intentionally murder Mr. Floyd.

wicklowstevo

MrStuffins wrote: »

If only there were more of them in American law enforcement. Then there would be fewer needless killings.

Assuming this was not pre-meditated murder of course. Giving Mr. Chavin the benefit of the doubt that he did not intentionally murder Mr. Floyd.

the only thing that is safe to assume here is that not one of the keyboard warriors on boards.ie has the above listed skills , qualifications or experience

BattleCorp

MrStuffins wrote: »

It wasn't. Both autopsies said so.

This has already been established

I'll wait to see what's presented in court if you don't mind.

MrStuffins

wicklowstevo wrote: »

the only thing that is safe to assume here is that not one of the keyboard warriors on boards.ie has the above listed skills , qualifications or experience

And, evidentially and sadly for Mr Floyd, neither did Mr. Chavin

irelandrover

MrStuffins wrote: »

He killed the man unnecessarily.

He should go to prison for manslaughter at the very least.

MrStuffins wrote: »

Yes. The other person in this case being Mr Chavin

You seem to have read the word homicide, saw a video and hence decided Chavin is definitely guilty and deserves prison.

What others are saying on this thread is that maybe you should wait for the evidence from the court case.

Homelander

I can't even begin to imagine what would happen if he were cleared. Would hate to be part of that jury, there's an enormous pressure that anything less than guilty of murder is the entirely wrong and unjust decision, regardless of what unfolds in the proceedings.

As for the guy himself, regardless of what happens or where he ends up, he'll be looking over his shoulder for the rest of his life. What a life that is, or will be. Even if hypothetically he was 100% cleared of any wrongdoing, he'd still forever remain the ultimate symbol of racial divide, injustice, discrimination and oppression, etc.

Regardless of the outcome, I hope he gets a fair trail and fair consideration from the jury based on the evidence and facts presented.

MrStuffins

irelandrover wrote: »

You seem to have read the word homicide, saw a video and hence decided Chavin is definitely guilty and deserves prison.

What others are saying on this thread is that maybe you should wait for the evidence from the court case.

That's fair enough. It will be interesting to hear what comes out in the trial.

Having said that, the evidence already established is pretty damning! It doesn't get much more conclusive than being caught on video.

Dempo1

Weeks of mind numbingly repetitive analysis as commenced on CNN, even BBC news break in occasionally. A complete circus. I get what happened is appalling but mother of God do we need 24 hour rolling news coverage.

Early on, I was struck about the family of Floyd, they seem pretty much trailer park trash, struggling to put an entire sentance together. They at best disowned him and at best treated him like a parasite before this incident , suddenly they found God, Expensive lawyer's, The Odious Rev Al, PR advisors and new found love for their deceased sibling, Then followed the knee nonsense and a handsome payout.

The entire matter is odious, disgusting and distasteful. Try the Cop, examine the evident, convict or aquit, I'll be switching off this charade.

Christy42

ELM327 wrote: »

The difference is there was no baying mob that time.

It does show that the system would happily acquit Chavin without care for the evidence. Somehow they decided that the city owed the victims family millions in that case but to put the cop back on active duty. Seems like madness.

Did they even change the rules after that initial case after seeing it could cause deaths needlessly I wonder.

Mellor

Baffling the amount of people arguing these charges, without knowing what the charges are.

walshb wrote: »

Yes, it transpired that he was in a bad way. But the defence will argue that Chauvin did not deliberately end his life..

He’s not accused of doing it deliberately.

Pussyhands wrote: »

Was the intent there to kill him though? Did Chauvin think "I'm gonna stay here until the guys dies."?

No there was no intent. He’s want to be insane to intentionally kill a man publicly. But how is that relevant. He’s not accused of killing him intentionally.

seamus wrote: »

In Ireland we call it manslaughter, in the US they call it 3rd-degree murder.

That’s not correct.
He’s charge with murder 3 and manslaughter. They the same charge nor the same sentence.

Mellor

KeepItLight wrote: »

I've been choked before. The scariest thing about it is that I couldn't say anything because no air was being passed though my throat, so I'm doubting he was actually choked to death if he could say "I can't breathe" repeatedly.

You can choke somebody without closing their throat or airway.

Aido101111 wrote: »

It was definitely murder, he had time as well as a group of people pleading with him just to get off his neck. George said "I can't breathe" over 20 times. If anyone thinks this is not murder then I've lost faith in humanity!

What makes it murder?
The fact he killed him doesn’t automatically make it murder.
And he 100% killed him.

MrStuffins

Mellor wrote: »

Baffling the amount of people arguing these charges, without knowing what the charges are.

Good explainer here

https://apnews.com/article/derek-chauvin-trial-murder-charge-explained-5e7c935f560219caee61fcc0bef0a23d

AbusesToilets

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Problem was , Floyd was saying he couldn't breathe well before he was put on the ground. Likely the cops thought he was spoofing. Also heard there's evidentof him doing similar in a previous arrest to try and buy time to dispose of drugs, but haven't seen anything definitive on that.

https://youtu.be/oEc3TKTI4yI

penny piper

riffmongous wrote: »

Apart from the fact that depriving the brain of oxygen for 4 minutes compared to 9 is literally the difference between life and death

This prone technique was used on an autistic boy of 16 Eric Parso 2020 when he was held down by 7 officers from the jefferson parish sherrifs office new orleans for over 9mins..in a face down handcuffed position...he was held down in a prone position and none of the deputies placed him in a recovery position..by sitting him up or rolling him onto his side...the deputies didn't move him until he had gone limp/urinated on himself...
The coroners office recorded a verdict of accidental death...contributing factors obesity...enlarged heart and the prone position.....
His family are suing the police....
So many experts have come out saying how dangerous this prone position is if not carried out correctly ...
This type of restraint should be outlawed when officers can't carry it out correctly and you end up with more cases like Parso, David smith and george floyd...

Jerrykay6

Mellor wrote: »

You can choke somebody without closing their throat or airway.
.

A choke works by blocking the air traveling from the mouth up into the brain (via the trachea). If the brain is receiving no oxygen it will essentially shut down like a computer and die.

DerekC16

MrStuffins wrote: »

Your attitude towards the killing of this man says a lot. Incredible!

That man was a violent junkie criminal.

ELM327

MrStuffins wrote: »

Good explainer here

https://apnews.com/article/derek-chauvin-trial-murder-charge-explained-5e7c935f560219caee61fcc0bef0a23d

Great explainer, thanks


Going by the description listed in your link of murder 2, it is now hard to see how a guilty verdict would be delivered


"The second-degree murder charge requires prosecutors to prove Chauvin caused Floyd’s death while committing or trying to commit a felony — in this case, third-degree assault"

All the prosecution have to do is show he wasnt committing a felony.

MrStuffins

Jerrykay6 wrote: »

A choke works by blocking the air traveling from the mouth up into the brain (via the trachea). If the brain is receiving no oxygen it will essentially shut down like a computer and die.

There are different types of chokes, like bloody chokes that stop oxygen from reaching the brain by closing off the arteries.

The poster you're replying to is an experienced grappler and very familiar with how different chokes work, including blood chokes.

Jerrykay6

MrStuffins wrote: »

There are different types of chokes, like bloody chokes that stop oxygen from reaching the brain by closing off the arteries.

The poster you're replying to is an experienced grappler and very familiar with how different chokes work, including blood chokes.

i have been involved in martial arts for the better part of my life, while blood chokes are possible we are trained to use air chokes as they result in death (only under extreme self defense circumstances of course).

MrStuffins

Jerrykay6 wrote: »

i have been involved in martial arts for the better part of my life, while blood chokes are possible we are trained to use air chokes as they result in death (only under extreme self defense circumstances of course).

Not only are blood chokes possible, they are common.

You're involved in Martial Arts so when the poster said.........

Mellor wrote: »

You can choke somebody without closing their throat or airway.

..... you knew he was correct.

Jerrykay6

MrStuffins wrote: »

Not only are blood chokes possible, they are common.

You're involved in Martial Arts so when the poster said.........




..... you knew he was correct.

A choke blocks the airway preventing air from nourishing the brain. A strangle prevents blood flow which can also be harmful.

Necro

Deleted User wrote: »

Is his death recorded in the covid death numbers too?

Threadbanned

Tony EH

The excuses made for Chavin by the usual suspects on here is nothing short of laughable.

MrStuffins

Jerrykay6 wrote: »

A choke blocks the airway preventing air from nourishing the brain. A strangle prevents blood flow which can also be harmful.

Right. I've heard Judo people use the term "strangle" for blood chokes. In martial arts like BJJ for example, they're called chokes. Maybe you've watched some MMA? They are called chokes, rear-naked choke, triangle choke etc. These are blood chokes.

You use different terminology, but the facts remain the same.

KeepItLight

MrStuffins wrote: »

There are different types of chokes, like bloody chokes that stop oxygen from reaching the brain by closing off the arteries.

The poster you're replying to is an experienced grappler and very familiar with how different chokes work, including blood chokes.

Not that I'm an expert or martial artist, but don't blood chokes take only few seconds to cause the victim to pass out? Once you cut off the bloodflow to the brain, its goodnight pretty much right away.

One would assume the accusation here is referring to the air choke considering victim shouting 'I can't breathe' repeatedly.

MrStuffins

KeepItLight wrote: »

Not that I'm an expert or martial artist, but don't blood chokes take only few seconds to cause the victim to pass out? Once you cut off the bloodflow to the brain, its goodnight pretty much right away.

One would assume the accusation here is referring to the air choke considering victim shouting 'I can't breathe' repeatedly.

I was just pointing out to JerryKay6 that even though he tried to correct someone, the poster he was replying to (Mellor) was right.

Mellor wrote: »

You can choke somebody without closing their throat or airway.

TomTomTim

Tony EH wrote: »

The excuses made for Chavin by the usual suspects on here is nothing short of laughable.

I'm sure you'll give us a breakdown as to why said arguments are laughable. A very common approach is simply to call something you disagree with "laughable" or "ridiculous", without giving us any meat. Essentially expressing general disapproval, without ever being specific, which conveniently bypasses explanation. I'm sure this isn't your approach though, you'll show us exactly why we're so "laughable".

Necro

Tony EH wrote: »

The excuses made for Chavin by the usual suspects on here is nothing short of laughable.

TomTomTim wrote: »

I'm sure you'll give us a breakdown as to why said arguments are laughable. A very common approach is simply to call something you disagree with "laughable" or "ridiculous", without giving us any meat. Essentially expressing general disapproval, without ever being specific, which conveniently bypasses explanation. I'm sure this isn't your approach though, you'll show us exactly why we're so "laughable".

Mod: Can we discuss the topic and not other posters please

penny piper

The prosecution seems to be coming up with very poor credible witnesses.... now interviewing 4 minors (at the time of the incident) second one was a 9/10 year old ...it was quite clear she was been led by the prosecution lawyer .....there's no way this guy will get a fair trial...defense lawyer is doing a better job today than on the second witness...

wicklowstevo

Dempo1 wrote: »

The entire matter is odious, disgusting and distasteful. Try the Cop, examine the evident, convict or aquit, I'll be switching off this charade.

I agree with you perspective but its a hell of a lot easier to ignore the trial than it will be to ignore the consequences regardless of the actual outcome