Two nations one team!

johnnyskeleton

downcow wrote: »

And check the reason it changed, and the sectarian meeting which Protestant players were told afterwards ‘was a meeting to pray for the pope’

Conor or Brent?

downcow

PCeeeee wrote: »

Which flag would you like to see used?

I wouldn’t be ‘too’ fussy. Just fairness.
If the Irish tricolour is being used then it should be accompanied with by the union flag or the white Ulster flag, which are the two flags that represent my country.
Also happy with none of the above and use the irfu flag.
I think that is very fair. I would expect you guys to not tolerate the use of a flag that represents ni but nothing to represent Roi

downcow

ittakestwo wrote: »

You were the first poster to accuse others of bigotry in this thread in post #213 which made me laugh as you are extremely bigoted towards the south and I had to respond to the hypocrisy.

Anything with an all Ireland identity you cant support and will find a reason not to support even tho it is the team that represents where you live.

What is the excuse not to support Ireland over Britain in Cheltenham?

What is the reason do you not support Ireland's cricket team in a match?

Here is exactly what I said
".....and then more nonsense from you. Half the Catholic players?
You just make stiff up when you are losing your argument.
Can you give me a wee list of the players outside derry (who are a special case as their local team plays in loi) who have decided not to play for NI?
And don’t just ignore this question as these lies need nailed - this is like the claims about billy Bingham, except we can get a definitive answer to this one. I’m not sure you will get a single one this century, but you may surprise me?
If you want a list of the falls road and Celtic players currently involved in the OWC team I’d be happy to oblige
Sad that peoples bigotry and hate for all things Northern Irish drags the discussion down to this - but lies need challenged"

maybe if I was writing that post again I would choose slightly different language. I might say 'lies and hate'. The difference is that I was addressing a poster who refused to move out of their paradigms and were believing something that was clear to everyone is completely untrue (the details in the post). But if Lucy thinks I was calling her a bigot, then I apologise. I actually think you are not a full-blown bigot, because I think a full-blown bigot would not come onto this forum, or if they did would just run nonsense and listen to no one's point of view.

What you clearly seem to be is incredibly nationalistic. I don't follow horseracing so probably don't understand, but I cannot imagine going to Cheltenham and wanting the British horses to beat the Irish horses or vice versa. But I accept, that may be because I am not into horseracing.

I still believe your behaviour is disgraceful by continually accusing me of being bigoted towards people like my father. I suppose if you continue to do it, and continue to be allowed to do it, I will just click the ignore button. Discussion is pointless and someone will not see anyone else's point of view

PCeeeee

downcow wrote: »

I wouldn’t be ‘too’ fussy. Just fairness.
If the Irish tricolour is being used then it should be accompanied with by the union flag or the white Ulster flag, which are the two flags that represent my country.
Also happy with none of the above and use the irfu flag.
I think that is very fair. I would expect you guys to not tolerate the use of a flag that represents ni but nothing to represent Roi

I wasn't aware the provincial Ulster flag was different than the Ulster one.

Yeah I can't see why they wouldn't fly whatever flag the unionist lads wanted. The union flag wouldn't really make a lot of sense to me given the way the UK is split for the purposes of RU competition.

downcow

PCeeeee wrote: »

I wasn't aware the provincial Ulster flag was different than the Ulster one.

Yeah I can't see why they wouldn't fly whatever flag the unionist lads wanted. The union flag wouldn't really make a lot of sense to me given the way the UK is split for the purposes of RU competition.

I agree with you. I would have no desire to fly the union flag even though it was agreed it would be flown at every other game. I just knew if I said I wanted the Ulster flag I would have posters saying that it’s not the official flag of the country and the union flag is.

If it happened it would completely transform my feelings for the team. If we could have the tricolour and Ulster flag and neither national anthem then the team would get my full support and I would enjoy supporting it.

realdanbreen

downcow wrote: »

Here is exactly what I said
".....and then more nonsense from you. Half the Catholic players?
You just make stiff up when you are losing your argument.
Can you give me a wee list of the players outside derry (who are a special case as their local team plays in loi) who have decided not to play for NI?
And don’t just ignore this question as these lies need nailed - this is like the claims about billy Bingham, except we can get a definitive answer to this one. I’m not sure you will get a single one this century, but you may surprise me?
If you want a list of the falls road and Celtic players currently involved in the OWC team I’d be happy to oblige
Sad that peoples bigotry and hate for all things Northern Irish drags the discussion down to this - but lies need challenged"

maybe if I was writing that post again I would choose slightly different language. I might say 'lies and hate'. The difference is that I was addressing a poster who refused to move out of their paradigms and were believing something that was clear to everyone is completely untrue (the details in the post). But if Lucy thinks I was calling her a bigot, then I apologise. I actually think you are not a full-blown bigot, because I think a full-blown bigot would not come onto this forum, or if they did would just run nonsense and listen to no one's point of view.

What you clearly seem to be is incredibly nationalistic. I don't follow horseracing so probably don't understand, but I cannot imagine going to Cheltenham and wanting the British horses to beat the Irish horses or vice versa. But I accept, that may be because I am not into horseracing.

I still believe your behaviour is disgraceful by continually accusing me of being bigoted towards people like my father. I suppose if you continue to do it, and continue to be allowed to do it, I will just click the ignore button. Discussion is pointless and someone will not see anyone else's point of view

Wow! And how did your father display his bigotry, if you don't mind me asking?

PCeeeee

downcow wrote: »

I agree with you. I would have no desire to fly the union flag even though it was agreed it would be flown at every other game. I just knew if I said I wanted the Ulster flag I would have posters saying that it’s not the official flag of the country and the union flag is.

Hypothetical question so for you. Would you like to see a UK RU team? Would that be something you could get behind?

downcow

realdanbreen wrote: »

Wow! And how did your father display his bigotry, if you don't mind me asking?

It seems I am bigoted towards him because he is a southerner (and a southerner who comes from the most Northern county on the island lol)

realdanbreen

downcow wrote: »

It seems I am bigoted towards him because he is a southerner (and a southerner who comes from the most Northern county on the island lol)

In fairness most young folk nowadays would not be that bigoted, religion would not have the same hold on them as it had on previous generations. What is ironic is the knuckleheads who were rioting last night. They and the politicians they follow voted for Brexit and then riot when the consequences of Brexit bite them in the ass!

Lucy8080

downcow wrote: »

Too much nonsense on this to address on my phone. I’ll take it apart when in front of my computer.
In the mean time put up or shut up about ‘half the talent of ni going elsewhere’

Take your time. No worries. I have asked at least 3 (or more) questions of you that you have not answered about that night in Windsor Park.

"I / The World" can quote both Players and Journalists who were there that night and witnessed what went on that night! It is on record.

You can have your "half the talent" ....it could be more as time goes on, for all I know.

Answer the questions you have been asked about that shocking/vile night in Windsor Park.

Maybe you just cannot face those questions, but the reality of that night is recorded on T.V. and in print!

Mysterypunter

downcow wrote: »

I so surprised by this post I am just replying of the top of my head, and I may not be 100% accurate, but I am pretty close

Northern Ireland - beat Italy on the way to ensuring they missed the World Cup finals for the only time in their history
Northern Ireland - only team in the world to beat Germany home and away, in the same tournament
Northern Ireland - beat Spain the last time we played them in a competitive tournament - here are the goals, worth a watch - especially Healy's third. I have a notion that Healy may be the only person in the world to score a hat-trick against Spain

You might have to check your facts before you put down Northern Ireland again, we have a wonderful team to be proud of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuSYzNZPbMs

They also beat Spain in the 82 world cup, a famous goal from Gerry Armstrong. Northern Ireland had a fantastic side in the 80s, and reached the finals in Spain and Mexico, Pat Jennings was a world class goalkeeper who I mostly remember from his time with Arsenal, although I'm sure he played for Tottenham before that. Football wasn't invented by sky sports in 1992

Lucy8080

Mysterypunter wrote: »

They also beat Spain in the 82 world cup, a famous goal from Gerry Armstrong. Northern Ireland had a fantastic side in the 80s, and reached the finals in Spain and Mexico, Pat Jennings was a world class goalkeeper who I mostly remember from his time with Arsenal, although I'm sure he played for Tottenham before that. Football wasn't invented by sky sports in 1992

If you have to tell Downcow about Gerry Armstrongs goal in '82...I think that is quite telling about Downcow as a Football supporter. Especially when claiming to support N.I.

ittakestwo

downcow wrote: »

If it happened it would completely transform my feelings for the team. If we could have the tricolour and Ulster flag and neither national anthem then the team would get my full support and I would enjoy supporting it.

Two flags for one team? Why not one flag for one team and one team anthem (Ireland's call)

Why is the rugby flag with the four province of Ireland symbols offensive?

downcow

ittakestwo wrote: »

Two flags for one team? Why not one flag for one team and one team anthem (Ireland's call)

Why is the rugby flag with the four province of Ireland symbols offensive?

Read my post again. I said I would be content with the irfu flag and Irelands call.

Question is would you?
ie the Irish tricolour and the soldiers song would not appear in any form unless my flag and anthem also featured.
And if supporters use the Irish tricolour then ni supporters should feel equally able to bring their flag to games.

Does that sound fair?

Why would NI not have their own team at this stage though anyway? In the professional era they could stay somewhat competitive the way rugby nationality works, and it would give Ireland an actual national side too.

PCeeeee

downcow wrote: »

Read my post again. I said I would be content with the irfu flag and Irelands call.

Question is would you?
ie the Irish tricolour and the soldiers song would not appear in any form unless my flag and anthem also featured.
And if supporters use the Irish tricolour then ni supporters should feel equally able to bring their flag to games.

Does that sound fair?

We might have to talk about Ireland's Call...its not great. ðŸ˜႒

ittakestwo

downcow wrote: »

Question is would you?
ie the Irish tricolour and the soldiers song would not appear in any form unless my flag and anthem also featured.
And if supporters use the Irish tricolour then ni supporters should feel equally able to bring their flag to games.

Does that sound fair?

Very fair. I dont like when Ireland is conflated with ROI anyway.

Most fans probably dont own the IRFU flag so that is probably the main reason fans bring the tricolour. I would have no problem seeing a NI flag at an Irish rugby match but a union jack would annoy me.

PCeeeee

ittakestwo wrote: »

Very fair. I dont like when Ireland is conflated with ROI anyway.

Most fans probably dont own the IRFU flag so that is probably the main reason fans bring the tricolour. I would have no problem seeing a NI flag at an Irish rugby match but a union jack would annoy me.

Yeah I'd agree. Why wouldn't there be NI flags.

downcow

ittakestwo wrote: »

Very fair. I dont like when Ireland is conflated with ROI anyway.

Most fans probably dont own the IRFU flag so that is probably the main reason fans bring the tricolour. I would have no problem seeing a NI flag at an Irish rugby match but a union jack would annoy me.

Well I would see that as a fair compromise. I understand why a union flag would annoy many, it’s the very reason I dislike seeing union flags at ni matches - but they are very few and far between these days, indeed rw&b is very sparse, everything is green and white - no matter what nonsense some say on here about Windsor.

Re irfu. Why do you think there is such resistance to the compromise we have just agreed on?

I detest to see the Catholic players in my beloved ni football team unable to sing the anthem and the prod players embarrassingly mouthing it, as they want to sing it but don’t want to upset their teammates. It is pathetic and makes me cringe for all the players at the beginning of each game.
It seems many rugby fans aren’t even aware of exactly the same issue at the beginning of every home rugby match.

I am genuinely interested is this outside of the awareness of the rugby fans or do they just not care how the ni players feel?

downcow

downcow wrote: »

Wrong. The only place it has ever been divided on the pitch is Roi. Give me one example of a Catholic ever being treated differently by the ifa or not being picked by a ni manager.
Contrast Roi. They strictly only approach Rc players in the north to groom them. This is clearly evidenced. You show me a single Protestant player they have approached who was on the ni radar, eligible for ni and had any hope of playing for ni.
There actually is one example. They approached paddy McNair thinking by his name that he was a rc. They immediately backed away when they discovered he was a protestant

So be honest about who has the one sided team. I don’t think you will find a ni team in history that was exclusively one religion or other. We need to go to the south of the border to find that

They probably assume that the Protestants wouldn’t want to play for the republic.

downcow

[Deleted User] wrote: »

They probably assume that the Protestants wouldn’t want to play for the republic.

Assumptions like that have another name ‘sectarian prejudice’. But yes I think you have hit the nail on the head.
Pity fai wouldn’t come clean and admit it

Downcow has a point though. The IFA is the older organisation and the one that used to represent all of Ireland. So any reunion would probably be the FAI disintegrating and the sport run from Belfast. That might ensure Northern Irish fans will keep watching the team as well. The point on the tricolour is a good one too. Never really thought about the rugby situation before.

downcow

downcow wrote: »

Assumptions like that have another name ‘sectarian prejudice’. But yes I think you have hit the nail on the head.
Pity fai wouldn’t come clean and admit it

Well it’s more a judice than a prejudice. Anyway wouldn’t the IFA be really pissed off if that happened. Do they have an unspoken agreement with the FAI?

To me the better agreement would be that nobody approaches any player on either side unless approached.

Two nations one league?

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/sport/all-ireland-league-plan-now-backed-by-ifa-and-fai-in-dramatic-change-of-heart-by-governing-bodies-40272822.html

downcow

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Well it’s more a judice than a prejudice. Anyway wouldn’t the IFA be really pissed off if that happened. Do they have an unspoken agreement with the FAI?

To me the better agreement would be that nobody approaches any player on either side unless approached.

That would be the perfect scenario. I have no issue with young lads or ladies choosing Roi over ni. I do have a problem when ni take them through all the levels and they even play for the full team and then switch.
Roi were upset recently when two players defected to England and they weren’t even born in roi

downcow

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Downcow has a point though. The IFA is the older organisation and the one that used to represent all of Ireland. So any reunion would probably be the FAI disintegrating and the sport run from Belfast. That might ensure Northern Irish fans will keep watching the team as well. The point on the tricolour is a good one too. Never really thought about the rugby situation before.

I appreciate your open minded inputs, but don’t be under any illusion that my suggestions for marking the all Island team a little more inclusive, mean that I would countenance an all island football team. Not a chance

trashcan

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

I'm against it. It will only encourage Phil Coulter to write another song.

Surely something we can all agree on, no matter what side of the divide you are

trashcan

downcow wrote: »

I would appreciate some other posters commenting on this as I am finding ittakestwo comments ou

You said yourself a few pages back that ROI was the team you most despised in the world. Hardly paints a picture of warm and fuzzy feelings towards the South. But no bigotry there, no siree.

trashcan

downcow wrote: »

Roi were upset recently when two players defected to England and they weren’t even born in roi

Some of us weren’t. I’m more than happy to see Grealish and Rice play for England. If they feel England I’d much prefer them not playing for us.

In my view though neither would have switched if they hadn’t been near an England call up. I always felt a bit uncomfortable with the amount of players with distant Irish connections playing for us tbh. I think I saw a stat recently that only 8 of the Italia 90 squad were born in Ireland. Something about that just strikes me as off. If it’s the likes of Kevin Kilbane, who even turned down the chance of an England youth cap, then fair enough, no issue with that. For too many though I suspect it was just a chance to play International football and they weren’t going to get an England cap. It left us wide open to the likes of Billy Binghams “mercenaries” jibe to be honest.

The more I see and hear of Rice I’m just sorry he lined out for us at all. Definitely glad he’s gone and wanted him gone as soon as he first started to stall.