Two nations one team!

realdanbreen

As an aside, It was interesting to see Declan Rice belting out the English national anthem in Wembly last night without even a hint of irony on his face.
The last time I saw him playing he was belting out Amhran Na bhfiann with tears in his eyes in Lansdowne road! As Declan said himself in the past , Tiocaidh Ar La!

The Great

The only reason that Northern Ireland, England, Scotland and Wales have gotten away with being allowed their own "national" team despite being one sovereign Nation is because their respective FA's are the oldest in the world. Existed long before FIFA . USSR and Yugoslavia all played as one nation despite being made up of many nations.

Besides, Northern Ireland is not even the majority of Ulster, never mind being a "country" as per the UK Home Office.

The split between Northern and Southern members of the IFA (LOI clubs like Bohemians and Shelboure played in the IFA cups n leagues) has little and nothing to do with Partition in 1920, more to down with a power struggle from Dublin wanting more say and Belfast, the GHQ of the IFA having none of it. There was a dispute over the location of a cup final, to be fair to the Nordies, the South was in a Civil War.........

There is no way Dublin would, could or should pander or be dictated to by any element from Belfast. There is only one nation, one country and its capital is Dublin

It is no wonder why politics should always stay out of sport. The TD is completely out of her depth thinking that the united of the IFA and FAI would be remotely possible . IFA rightly would want nothing to do with the FAI

The Great

realdanbreen wrote: »

As an aside, It was interesting to see Declan Rice belting out the English national anthem in Wembly last night without even a hint of irony on his face.
The last time I saw him playing he was belting out Amhran Na bhfiann with tears in his eyes in Lansdowne road! As Declan said himself in the past , Tiocaidh Ar La!

He's English through and through. He was pandering to his Plastic Paddyness to be seen as one of the boys when he was all pro Ra . Sure he was only born in 1999!! He knows nothing about bombs going off in his native "Landan"

Sure Matty Holland, a good servant to Irish football was caught singing God Save The Queen despite being an Irish International

Footballers eh, maybe Billy Bingham had a point about mercenaries (November 1993 comment)

The Great

Galwayhurl wrote: »

I think if the LOI restructured to have a county system similar to the GAA, more people would support the league.

• Dublin clubs such as BOHS, St. Pat's remain the same.
  
• Counties such as Cork, Galway have county teams.
  
• Smaller counties amalgamate e.g. Sligo/Leitrim/Roscommon and call it "SLR FC".
  
• Make it mandatory that the players come from that county/area á la GAA. That would bring pride and interest and proper rivalry into it.

Ridiculous suggestion.

Why should Sligo Rovers, and Athlone Town (who take in A LOT of fans from Roscommon Town and Southern Roscommon when they are playing well) and Longford (Rossies use to go to their games too , Bogford being less than a half hour away from Roscommon Town) and even the various groups behind Galway United (genuinely super supporters) be pushed out of existence and over 40-100 years (for Athlone) developing football in those areas

When Athlone were fighting for league titles in the 1980s, people from all around the Midlands, not just Athlone, went to St Mels to watch them. People like bandwagons

The Mayo League were invited to join the League of Ireland and they might be a good addition. They wanted nothing to do with it in part due to the costs.

As someone already pointed out, Kildare had a very successful junior team around the Newbridge area. They became Kildare County and were good enough to win promotion . They went out of business in the LOI rather quickly

Inishowen in North West Donegal are soccer crazy, yet, no League of Ireland team and they have zero interest in travelling down to Ballybofey to watch Finn Harps who might be a bit of a yo yo club at least will be competitive in Division 1 and will regularly get promoted to the Premiership. They do not travel closer to Derry to watch that team either . More interested in Junior soccer or Celtic


By the way, underage All Ireland competitions DO set up teams by League format for the SFAI ie Galway, Mayo , Sligo-Leitrim league etc. Dublin League still dominate (Galway have two top youth set ups in Mervue and Salthill)

Soccer has no comparison to Rugby or GAA, both of whom always had the concept of Provincial teams . Actually the Interpro set up has almost destroyed the Rugby domestic league . It was a treat to see young lads like Bull Hayes (Shannon) and Ronan O'Gara (Cork Con) make rare appearances for their clubs when they weren't on Munster or Ireland duty (A Team and Underage) (This was 1997/1998...)

"Counties such as Cork, Galway have county teams."

Cork have two clubs; Cobh and Cork City (and its various names) . Granted, both have struggled financially but they have a fan appetite to exist

cdeb

Quick correction on the above - Kildare County never won promotion. Highest they finished was fourth in the First Div I think (when three went up)

Other than that, yeah, it's a daft suggestion.

realdanbreen

The Great wrote: »

He's English through and through. He was pandering to his Plastic Paddyness to be seen as one of the boys when he was all pro Ra . Sure he was only born in 1999!! He knows nothing about bombs going off in his native "Landan"

Sure Matty Holland, a good servant to Irish football was caught singing God Save The Queen despite being an Irish International

Footballers eh, maybe Billy Bingham had a point about mercenaries (November 1993 comment)

Ah wee Billy, my abiding memory of him is when he was orchestrating and conducting the crowd as they sang sectarian songs and hurled racist abuse at Paul McGrath and Terry Phelan.

The Great

cdeb wrote: »

Quick correction on the above - Kildare County never won promotion. Highest they finished was fourth in the First Div I think (when three went up)

Other than that, yeah, it's a daft suggestion.

Yeah, you are right, I thought they went up when Martin Reilly and Adrian Murphy (two lads who had done well with Athlone Town FC) joined. Still they were pretty competitive for most of their time in the league of Ireland

I have just reminded myself of the A League ..........wow that was some time ago

Donald Trump

blanch152 wrote: »

Yes, that is what the Article says, but there are two significant implications that you have missed.

(1) Not everybody on the island is required to be part of the Irish Nation, thereby distinguishing between the territory and the nation. People born on the island can equally opt to be British, and in the future, this will include Northern Irish.

(2) The distinction between territory and nation also allows for the nation to include people not born on this island, hence the distinctive language.

Speaking about nations, I think the real issue that the OP (downcow) actually wants to talk about, is the winner of the BBC's "World's Favourite Song" poll from 2002.

The Great

realdanbreen wrote: »

Ah wee Billy, my abiding memory of him is when he was orchestrating and conducting the crowd as they sang sectarian songs and hurled racist abuse at Paul McGrath and Terry Phelan.

I was sarcastic about wee Billy. Funny though, that behaviour was absolutely nothing like the true Billy Bingham, who , after all made Catholics like Pat Jennings and Martin O'Neill welcomed into the set up............

McGrath nearly went for Billy when he heard Billy shouting "mercenary" at him.

Billy was probably still reeling from the March 1993 1st half hammering at Lansdowne Road and the fans cheering "there's only one team in Ireland"............

The Great

cdeb wrote: »

The size of the island has nothing at all to do with how bad we are. Croatia has 4m people and got to the World Cup Final.

John Delaney, coaching in Ireland, and people's insistence on supporting foreign leagues over the domestic league are far bigger issues. How many politicians have spoken out about those issues? And how many have jumped in on photoshoots with Delaney down the years and said he's a great lad?

Usual politicians blathering on about something they know nothing about just to get their name in the papers.

Croatia got to TWO World Cups Semi finals (1998 and 2018) , One World Cup Final (2018) and One European Championship Quarter Final (1996, barely 10 years into existence as an independent nation and their first shot at a tournament )

The Croats also were lethal in Basketball reaching world cups and olympic finals (Yugoslavia were a big deal back in the 1980-1990s ) They are still a top European team, but the Spanish seem to be the top dogs along with Latvia/ Lithuania etc

realdanbreen

The Great wrote: »

, that behaviour was absolutely nothing like the true Billy Bingham,............

You're kidding right?

That was the night that the mask slipped on wee Billy and the deep rooted bigotry in the IFA.

cdeb

The Great wrote: »

Yeah, you are right, I thought they went up when Martin Reilly and Adrian Murphy (two lads who had done well with Athlone Town FC) joined. Still they were pretty competitive for most of their time in the league of Ireland

Yeah, they were decent for the first three seasons - got to the First Division Shield final in their first season and had a crowd of around 1500 I think - but they were brutal after that. I remember we beat them 4-0 in 2009 and their keeper was dropping the ball into the net. They folded at the end that season (I think) rather than play a relegation play-off (which the FAI tried to force them to - actually tried to force them play a relegation play-off when they'd already said they were folding. Idiots)

Galwayhurl

Patrick2010 wrote: »

This idea of the LOI being county based is daft usually made by people who know nothing about the LOI and wouldn't even bother going to a match if it changed.

Looking at the suggestion above Dublin clubs would remain the same (no mention of the current league champions btw) but could only sign Dublin born players?
Dundalk and Drogheda would merge and only play Louth born players?

It was just an idea. It's not as if things are going well as they are.

So what do you suggest?

Galwayhurl

The Great wrote: »

Ridiculous suggestion.

Why should Sligo Rovers, and Athlone Town (who take in A LOT of fans from Roscommon Town and Southern Roscommon when they are playing well) and Longford (Rossies use to go to their games too , Bogford being less than a half hour away from Roscommon Town) and even the various groups behind Galway United (genuinely super supporters) be pushed out of existence and over 40-100 years (for Athlone) developing football in those areas

When Athlone were fighting for league titles in the 1980s, people from all around the Midlands, not just Athlone, went to St Mels to watch them. People like bandwagons

The Mayo League were invited to join the League of Ireland and they might be a good addition. They wanted nothing to do with it in part due to the costs.

As someone already pointed out, Kildare had a very successful junior team around the Newbridge area. They became Kildare County and were good enough to win promotion . They went out of business in the LOI rather quickly

Inishowen in North West Donegal are soccer crazy, yet, no League of Ireland team and they have zero interest in travelling down to Ballybofey to watch Finn Harps who might be a bit of a yo yo club at least will be competitive in Division 1 and will regularly get promoted to the Premiership. They do not travel closer to Derry to watch that team either . More interested in Junior soccer or Celtic


By the way, underage All Ireland competitions DO set up teams by League format for the SFAI ie Galway, Mayo , Sligo-Leitrim league etc. Dublin League still dominate (Galway have two top youth set ups in Mervue and Salthill)

Soccer has no comparison to Rugby or GAA, both of whom always had the concept of Provincial teams . Actually the Interpro set up has almost destroyed the Rugby domestic league . It was a treat to see young lads like Bull Hayes (Shannon) and Ronan O'Gara (Cork Con) make rare appearances for their clubs when they weren't on Munster or Ireland duty (A Team and Underage) (This was 1997/1998...)

"Counties such as Cork, Galway have county teams."

Cork have two clubs; Cobh and Cork City (and its various names) . Granted, both have struggled financially but they have a fan appetite to exist

Right so. What's your bright idea?

The Great

realdanbreen wrote: »

You're kidding right?

That was the night that the mask slipped on wee Billy and the deep rooted bigotry in the IFA.

Learn to read .

"that behaviour was absolutely nothing like the true Billy Bingham, who , after all made Catholics like Pat Jennings and Martin O'Neill welcomed into the set up............"

You offered one example......the man was in football for decades before that and never acted in such a disgraceful manner

Outside that month, leading up to the game, his conduct was completely out of character to the Billy Bingham that most football people know of. Bigot was not one of his character traits. The nonsense that he got himself involved in that night in November 1993 , after a month of tit for tat shootings, was unbelievable and utterly unprecedented from him.

Don't comment on people that you clearly know nothing about.

dan1895

Galwayhurl wrote: »

Right so. What's your bright idea?

Why does he have to have a bright idea? He should be able to call bs on a plan that will disenfranchise 90% of people involved in senior football without having his own.

The Great

Galwayhurl wrote: »

Right so. What's your bright idea?

Not to comment on a community that I know nothing about , would be a start ! County format? LOL.........

I doubt lads in Inishowen will give two contential fecks for the county soccer team , if they can not be bothered to travel down to Ballybofey (mostly made up of lads from the North West) to see Finn Harps, a decent team who has had a decent 10 years DESPITE colossal threats of going out of business. Contrast that to say Athlone Town who had promotion , have a bigger catchment area, closer to Dublin (important for Dublin based players) and had some questionable money men yet, produced drivel

It starts with coaching the youth. Properly. Professional trained coaches , more FAI technical staff (they do and always have existed) travel the country . Get them playing for Youth teams set up and connected to already existing League of Ireland teams. There are some youth clubs in Dublin like Cherry Orchard, Home Farm and Stella Maris and in Galway , Salthill and Mervue (I know NOTHING about the football community in Munster) who had established reputations are football nursies so they should be supported and allowed to continue to exist - All of this is already in existence down - One successful idea from the FAI

The problem is that Junior Clubs will be , understandably, extremely proachial and protective and not wish to engage........too scared of losing potential money from big transfers that their star player could earn by moving to England. Eg Robbie Keane has made his youth club a nice bit of money over the years.

The Irish kids ain't going to be going to England to big clubs at 15-18 anymore , or least not in the huge numbers that they once were.

For now, League of Ireland clubs need to be a hell of a lot more media savy in the context of reminding their town that there are games being held. eg posters around the town ....going into schools and sponsoring winter leagues and giving out complimentary tickets .....in the hope that the adult will bring the child .......... - This does work. Athlone Town use to do it in the 1990s when they were a Premier League Team , often flirting with relegation. The crowds were pretty good back then

For all their posing , wokeness and virtue signalling, Bohemians do a pretty good job on the publicity and promotion front. They have released some gorgeous and unique jersies and traditionally have an excellent fan base. Shame that 3/4 of their stadium is a condemned kip . (the pitch is fine , so too the Jodi Stand. I actually like Dalymount) Dalymount is the fecking home of Irish football.

In case of Galway , it does not help that they hold games on the same night as Connacht Rugby .... Again, when Galway United are doing well, they have a great support base , especially for away games (Roy Keane ain't wrong about away supporters)

I would like to see a Kerry League team and or Mayo League team enter the League of Ireland. I want to see Killkenny come back.

It is VITAL that the days of a Limerick side struggling to exist (and not because results on the pitch are rubbish) are long gone. Limerick City must have a presence in the League of ireland (they have had at least 3 editions to their club since the early 2000s , though I might be wrong, Treaty United have been already an existing club - again, I know nothing about Munster football,rather than a new Limerick ) We have seen 2-3 versions of Cork City already since the 1980s

I know that the FAI must ensure that clubs are held to a standard as per UEFA, but FAI could have tried to make it financially viable for such clubs to join the league (problem there, would that be appropriate)

The Only way for the league to grow is if one or two teams regularly perform well in UEFA Cup / Europa or their new Conference League .

Reforming the Setanta Cup aka All Ireland league has its own problems (IFA and FAI clubs) and proven to have lost interest from fans and the clubs, but that might be worth while again (Costs of travelling to the other side of the country is prohibitive )

Galwayhurl

dan1895 wrote: »

Why does he have to have a bright idea? He should be able to call bs on a plan that will disenfranchise 90% of people involved in senior football without having his own.

It's a discussion board. You either put forward a counterargument or you shut up.

Same as in every aspect of life. There's too many hurlers on the ditch without contributing any ideas of their own.

If you're going to shout down an idea, you had best come up with your own. Otherwise you won't get far in life, whether it be the workplace or anywhere else.

He's responded now which is good. But you're statement "he should he able to call bs on a plan" without putting forth his own is laughable.

It's the reason we have useless politicians and opposition parties in this country. Anyone can criticise. It's quite another thing to come up with feasible solutions.

cdeb

Galwayhurl wrote: »

If you're going to shout down an idea, you had best come up with your own. Otherwise you won't get far in life, whether it be the workplace or anywhere else.

The LoI needs funding (from the FAI in particular). It needs a proper pyramid structure so that Irish clubs aren't split into 37 mickey-mouse leagues playing at different times of the year while the schoolboy clubs sit to one side not talking to anyone. And it needs people to actually go to the games and take an interest. (And there's nothing stopping you going to an LoI game with your mates on Friday evening and watching the Premier League on Saturday/Sunday)

It really is that simple. And it's entirely reasonable to call BS on random format changes which have no indication at all of how they're supposed to improve things. You don't have to put forward a counter-bizarre-suggestion to call BS on the original one.

Galwayhurl

cdeb wrote: »

The LoI needs funding (from the FAI in particular). And it needs people to actually go to the games and take an interest. (And there's nothing stopping you going to an LoI game with your mates on Friday evening and watching the Premier League on Saturday/Sunday)

It really is that simple. And it's entirely reasonable to call BS on random format changes which have no indication at all of how they're supposed to improve things. You don't have to put forward a counter-bizarre-suggestion to call BS on the original one.

I clearly stated in my original post that in my humble opinion, some rivalry would do the league good. It's a joke that Galway Utd's nearest rival is all the way up in Sligo or way over in Athlone. If Mayo had a team, then that rivalry would get intense after some time.

I'm just a poster who put forward an idea. Some people don't like it. Fair enough. No need for them to get their backs up so much. There's no need to be so touchy. It's a ****ing discussion forum. It puts people off from contributing.

I'm out.

Omackeral

I'd like a Mayo and Kerry team in the league. They have had representative sides in the cups before but I'd like them to have teams at some stage. Kilkenny having one back too would be great for away days.

cdeb

Galwayhurl wrote: »

I clearly stated in my original post that in my humble opinion, some rivalry would do the league good. It's a joke that Galway Utd's nearest rival is all the way up in Sligo or way over in Athlone. If Mayo had a team, then that rivalry would get intense after some time.

Limerick and Longford are closer to Galway than Sligo.

And it's not a joke that Galway's closest rivals are Longford (in the Premier anyway). You can't have 700 teams in the league; there's going to be distances to travel.

Saying that the league would be better if Mayo were in it to give some spice to Galway games is basically another way of denying that if people just went to the games, the league would improve, and that would then improve the national team.

It seems the national side may have a bit more of a way to slide though before people realise that.

downcow

realdanbreen wrote: »

Ah wee Billy, my abiding memory of him is when he was orchestrating and conducting the crowd as they sang sectarian songs and hurled racist abuse at Paul McGrath and Terry Phelan.

I nearly did not rise to this, because I am a bit bored with these lies.
I am not sure if you are allowed to do this within the rules of the board - Tell downright lies about a person who is still living to blacken his character, so I won't bother reporting you this time.

I am tempted to give you another history lesson about that night, and the lead up to it, but I think it would bore far too many people.

downcow

downcow wrote: »

I nearly did not rise to this, because I am a bit bored with these lies.
I am not sure if you are allowed to do this within the rules of the board - Tell downright lies about a person who is still living to blacken his character, so I won't bother reporting you this time.

I am tempted to give you another history lesson about that night, and the lead up to it, but I think it would bore far too many people.

It’s common knowledge what he was at that night. Showed what kind of a person he is.

downcow

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

It’s common knowledge what he was at that night. Showed what kind of a person he is.

So if it is common knowledge what exactly he was at that night, then maybe you will enlighten me? I was sitting directly behind him, so I am all ears

I’m sure you were.

begbysback

The loi standard is crap, it will always be crap when the best players go to England, it’s made up of decent Sunday league players and that’s the way it always will be, forget loi standard increasing, it won’t.

You want a solution? Get in a manger that will entice the eligible good players to play for Ireland. Nobody would heed the call of a Stephen kenny call, so he’s left with what he has, it’s harsh but that’s the reality.

downcow

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

I’m sure you were.

Now you're going to tell me I wasn't sitting behind him. Why am I not surprised by that given what you have said about him?

Of course you know it would be difficult to evidence but I think I could make a good stab at it. I have missed one competitive home game in Windsor Park since 1979. I have sat in the same seat in the North stand since it was built - so I could post my season ticket and you could research it and find out it is right behind the dugout. But why would we bother?

Coillte_Bhoy

Omackeral wrote: »

I'd like a Mayo and Kerry team in the league. They have had representative sides in the cups before but I'd like them to have teams at some stage. Kilkenny having one back too would be great for away days.

Not sure a Mayo team would work tbh. Dont think the public support would be there and anyway where would it be based? Ballina or Castlebar? Junior soccer is fairly strong in Mayo so i cant see much support coming from there, after all what would they have to gain? Sligo have a decent support base in North mayo and when Galway were doing well they drew support from South Mayo

cdeb

begbysback wrote: »

The loi standard is crap, it will always be crap when the best players go to England, it’s made up of decent Sunday league players and that’s the way it always will be, forget loi standard increasing, it won’t.

You want a solution? Get in a manger that will entice the eligible good players to play for Ireland. Nobody would heed the call of a Stephen kenny call, so he’s left with what he has, it’s harsh but that’s the reality.

Ah yes, the old "Every other country in Europe uses their league to develop players for their national team, but we're different I tells ya!" argument.

Good one. Straight from the SFAI "What would the Spanish know about underage football?" school of thought.