Two nations one team!

downcow

MayoSalmon wrote: »

We don't play netball though

Who is ‘we’?

MayoSalmon

downcow wrote: »

Who is ‘we’?

I see the Roi netball team has came 10th in the world. Better than their football team https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Ireland_national_netball_team

Still interested who ‘we’ is?

To any meaningful level...the organisation is post partition hence why it's separate... Football is pre partition however split to due the row at the glentoran game.

There's also the South's rejection of the commonwealth NI players couldn’t be expected to forgo commonwealth competition just to suit the Republic’s love-hate relationship with the English.

lawred2

MayoSalmon wrote: »

To any meaningful level...the organisation is post partition hence why it's separate... Football is pre partition however split to due the row at the glentoran game.

There's also the South's rejection of the commonwealth NI players couldn’t be expected to forgo commonwealth competition just to suit the Republic’s love-hate relationship with the English.

Well pre or post partition, DC is right about netball being similarly aligned to soccer.

ittakestwo

downcow wrote: »

Your point? In rugby on these islands no sovereign country competes either.
Ironically the only in recognised state competing is Roi and you want to change that.
If we go with us recognised states then we’d have two teams on these islands UK and Ireland (26 counties). I wouldn’t like it but much more preferable to joining two countries together

My point is could you get behind an all Ireland football team. If not then you have bigotry towards the south which is not reciprocated. You can get behind an Irish team that is represtive of the unionists part of Ireland only and which is not a country. But you could not get behind team that represents both the nationalist and unionist of Ireland which is also not a country.

realdanbreen

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Also, rugby is an extremely loyalist game in Northern Ireland, most of their players are about as Irish as their queen.

Steady on! the Queen is of German descent, and her husband was born in Greece!

downcow

ittakestwo wrote: »

My point is could you get behind an all Ireland football team. If not then you have bigotry towards the south which is not reciprocated. You can get behind an Irish team that is represtive of the unionists part of Ireland only and which is not a country. But you could not get behind team that represents both the nationalist and unionist of Ireland which is also not a country.

This is ridiculous, and is exactly why I am calling it irony.

I completely understand why some Republicans in Northern Ireland do not throw their weight behind the Northern Ireland team. I actually do not believe they are bigoted for such an attitude, indeed I have close friends who are Republic supporters and we can discuss this at length, and are completely understanding of each others position - and enjoy each other getting a good hammering - but that's football, same as Liverpool and Everton, it's not bigotry

For you to call me a bigot because I love my national football team, and do not want to see it united with anyone, whether ROI, England, Scotland, Wales or even the EU.

The bigotry is clearly the other way. You have your position and few and you are not prepared to countenance anyone else's.

You still have not addressed your unwillingness to support a team that merged ROI into a team of these islands, which would be much more diverse of cultural backgrounds, ethnicity, etc?

Fionn1952

downcow wrote: »

This is ridiculous, and is exactly why I am calling it irony.

I completely understand why some Republicans in Northern Ireland do not throw their weight behind the Northern Ireland team. I actually do not believe they are bigoted for such an attitude, indeed I have close friends who are Republic supporters and we can discuss this at length, and are completely understanding of each others position - and enjoy each other getting a good hammering - but that's football, same as Liverpool and Everton, it's not bigotry

For you to call me a bigot because I love my national football team, and do not want to see it united with anyone, whether ROI, England, Scotland, Wales or even the EU.

The bigotry is clearly the other way. You have your position and few and you are not prepared to countenance anyone else's.

You still have not addressed your unwillingness to support a team that merged ROI into a team of these islands, which would be much more diverse of cultural backgrounds, ethnicity, etc?

It certainly isn't bigoted to say that you would not wish to see the team you have supported amalgamated in with another team.....saying that should it happen, you wouldn't support the new team (which would be pretty much half made up of the team you previously supported) because it's half made up of, 'themmuns', abandoning support for your own players to go off and support a different team.....that's certainly leaning towards it.

downcow

Lucy8080 wrote: »

We have moved on from "Catholic" eh, I guess that is progress!

Now tell us (as you said you would earlier) about that night in Windsor Park 1993 and supporters of Jacks team.

What was the ticket allocation? What part of the ground did they have? How much trouble did they cause?

I am a bit reluctant to open up this silly discussion again, but it seems you are using my non-willingness to answer it to avoid telling us about the long list of people from Northern Ireland (outside the league of Ireland area of Derry) who have chosen not to play for Northern Ireland.
I’ll ignore the fact that you suddenly change my comment from ‘in the lead up to the game and on the night’, and get on with answering the question.
You asked,Ticket allocation and area of the ground. As far as I remember the ticket allocation was 200 but then there were other corporate tickets given out. The Republic of Ireland supporters were in the bottom right of the South stand as I viewed it. A family member of mine worked for an Irish bank who got an allocation of tickets, he of course did not get a ticket because they knew he was a Northern Ireland supporter. One of his workmates who did get a ticket was ejected out of the ground by security for holding up a Celtic poster towards the Northern Ireland crowd, he faced a mild disciplinary afterwards in his work. There were also three Republic of Ireland fans sitting right in front of me in the midst of thousands of Northern Ireland fans, and if I am not mistaken the Shankill Road supporters club hosted a group of Republic of Ireland supporters

So what did the Irish team and the fans get up to? - here’s just a few from memory.
When our fans attended the match in Dublin, prior to this match; both inside and outside the ground we were met with endless chants of, ooh aah up the RA, and just general sectarian abuse.

The FAI made a number of representations to FIFA to get the game moved to a neutral venue. Every other country in the world at that time could come and play at our ground but our neighbours tried to stab us in the back. Had this game been stopped we would have had a huge difficulty getting any games back to Belfast.

Our fans coaches were stoned on the way to Dublin both at Newry and in Dublin itself

there is also context, if my memory serves me right, this was just weeks after 13 innocent people had been murdered in an IRA sectarian bomb, just a mile from the ground. And we were playing a team who had IRA songs played on the team coach.

I absolutely will not deny that there was a partisan atmosphere, and a very partisan crowd, and people’s goat was up because of the FAI trying to get our stadium closed as well as derogatory stuff that Jack Charlton said about our team.

The point that has became urban folklore is about Billy Bingham egging the crowd on. Billy Bingham and the fans he loved had taken a lot of sh1t on the lead up to this, the so-called Irish team had a very high proportion of English players. The only point Billy Bingham raised his hand to encourage the crowd was while we were singing ‘England rejects’. To this day he has my full support for doing that. The man was a legend amongst us, and a gentleman.

downcow

Fionn1952 wrote: »

It certainly isn't bigoted to say that you would not wish to see the team you have supported amalgamated in with another team.....saying that should it happen, you wouldn't support the new team (which would be pretty much half made up of the team you previously supported) because it's half made up of, 'themmuns', abandoning support for your own players to go off and support a different team.....that's certainly leaning towards it.

Fionn, I honestly thought you were better than this.
Is it lost on you that the team I love and support is a mixed team with lots of 'themmuns' in it. This is the very reason I campaign to get the anthem changed, is because I want 'themmuns' as you call them, not to feel excluded like the northern players in the Ireland rugby team when the anthem is played

downcow

downcow wrote: »

I am a bit reluctant to open up this silly discussion again, but it seems you are using my non-willingness to answer it to avoid telling us about the long list of people from Northern Ireland (outside the league of Ireland area of Derry) who have chosen not to play for Northern Ireland.
I’ll ignore the fact that you suddenly change my comment from ‘in the lead up to the game and on the night’, and get on with answering the question.
You asked,Ticket allocation and area of the ground. As far as I remember the ticket allocation was 200 but then there were other corporate tickets given out. The Republic of Ireland supporters were in the bottom right of the South stand as I viewed it. A family member of mine worked for an Irish bank who got an allocation of tickets, he of course did not get a ticket because they knew he was a Northern Ireland supporter. One of his workmates who did get a ticket was ejected out of the ground by security for holding up a Celtic poster towards the Northern Ireland crowd, he faced a mild disciplinary afterwards in his work. There were also three Republic of Ireland fans sitting right in front of me in the midst of thousands of Northern Ireland fans, and if I am not mistaken the Shankill Road supporters club hosted a group of Republic of Ireland supporters

So what did the Irish team and the fans get up to? - here’s just a few from memory.
When our fans attended the match in Dublin, prior to this match; both inside and outside the ground we were met with endless chants of, ooh aah up the RA, and just general sectarian abuse.

The FAI made a number of representations to FIFA to get the game moved to a neutral venue. Every other country in the world at that time could come and play at our ground but our neighbours tried to stab us in the back. Had this game been stopped we would have had a huge difficulty getting any games back to Belfast.

Our fans coaches were stoned on the way to Dublin both at Newry and in Dublin itself

there is also context, if my memory serves me right, this was just weeks after 13 innocent people had been murdered in an IRA sectarian bomb, just a mile from the ground. And we were playing a team who had IRA songs played on the team coach.

I absolutely will not deny that there was a partisan atmosphere, and a very partisan crowd, and people’s goat was up because of the FAI trying to get our stadium closed as well as derogatory stuff that Jack Charlton said about our team.

The point that has became urban folklore is about Billy Bingham egging the crowd on. Billy Bingham and the fans he loved had taken a lot of sh1t on the lead up to this, the so-called Irish team had a very high proportion of English players. The only point Billy Bingham raised his hand to encourage the crowd was while we were singing ‘England rejects’. To this day he has my full support for doing that. The man was a legend amongst us, and a gentleman.

They all definitely did this but Billy Bingham was a gent

To be honest I wouldn’t expect anything else and probably am near as glad you’re as biased as you are. It’s how it should be done and it’s why I’m happy that it’ll be a long long time before they ever take our teams from us to make some representative side like the IRFU.

ittakestwo

downcow wrote: »

Your point? In rugby on these islands no sovereign country competes either.
Ironically the only in recognised state competing is Roi and you want to change that.
If we go with us recognised states then we’d have two teams on these islands UK and Ireland (26 counties). I wouldn’t like it but much more preferable to joining two countries together

downcow wrote: »

This is ridiculous, and is exactly why I am calling it irony.

I completely understand why some Republicans in Northern Ireland do not throw their weight behind the Northern Ireland team. I actually do not believe they are bigoted for such an attitude, indeed I have close friends who are Republic supporters and we can discuss this at length, and are completely understanding of each others position - and enjoy each other getting a good hammering - but that's football, same as Liverpool and Everton, it's not bigotry

For you to call me a bigot because I love my national football team, and do not want to see it united with anyone, whether ROI, England, Scotland, Wales or even the EU.

The bigotry is clearly the other way. You have your position and few and you are not prepared to countenance anyone else's.

You still have not addressed your unwillingness to support a team that merged ROI into a team of these islands, which would be much more diverse of cultural backgrounds, ethnicity, etc?

I do support the British and Irish lions when they're representing these islands as you say. If there was a football British and Irish lions I would support it too and I support Europe in the Ryder Cup. All these teams are representing me in one way.

It's laughable that a person from Ireland who would not support an all Ireland team because dem ones are on it would call people who would support an all Ireland team a bigot.

lawred2

ittakestwo wrote: »

I do support the British and Irish lions when they're representing these islands as you say. If there was a football British and Irish lions I would support it too and I support Europe in the Ryder Cup. All these teams are representing me in one way.

It's laughable that a person from Ireland who would not support an all Ireland team because dem ones are on it would call people who would support an all Ireland team a bigot.

Europe Europe Europe

Love the Ryder Cup but I'll never support the Ryder Cup team while there's a Swede on it.

Feckin Swedes!

Joking aside, I don't really support any of those supra national events. I enjoy them immensely as sporting spectacles for sure but I've no emotional involvement in such events.

The carry on with the fervent support for the commercial Loyuns baffles me somewhat. Love the rugby matches though.

But... Let's not conflate such commercial events with an all Island football team. Not remotely the same thing.

Fionn1952

downcow wrote: »

Fionn, I honestly thought you were better than this.
Is it lost on you that the team I love and support is a mixed team with lots of 'themmuns' in it. This is the very reason I campaign to get the anthem changed, is because I want 'themmuns' as you call them, not to feel excluded like the northern players in the Ireland rugby team when the anthem is played

Lots is a stretch Downcow, particularly historically. I appreciate your point re: the anthem, and while I'm a bit long in the tooth for it to make any difference to me, maybe a few changes like that and around some of the chanting at Windsor, you'll do better attracting newer generations than you did mine. The away fans are certainly improving the reputation at the international tournaments, but Windsor certainly continues to be problematic.

Trying to compare it with the rugby situation (where the national anthem is played in Dublin....because it is Dublin, and the sport has already adapted by having Shoulder to Shoulder as the actual team anthem....as bloody awful as it is) is pretty ridiculous.

I've addressed your post despite it being a wholesale diversion from the acknowledged fact that you would support another team rather than support a team half made up of your own people, half made up of Irish team players. Whatever way you try and slice it, cheering on Scotland against a team who half the people on one side of the pitch are your people, because the other half of the people on that side of the pitch aren't.....that's sailing close to bigotry.

AMKC

I see nothing wrong with quite.

It makes sense.

Rugby here is an all Ireland team so is hockey. I am not even sure if we have a basketball team.

I too think it is time that both the Northern Irish and Irish team joined as one team. It is stupid to have two competing teams not on this island but because of the size of Northern Ireland. They have what a population of 1.6 million and there own football team which I will admit has been pulling above its weight the last few years maybe even decade but were brought back down to Earth there recently when the played Italy. They can try as hard as they like they will never beat Italy, Spain or Germany but we have I am sure beaten all three at some stage. Just imagine what a United Irish Football/ Soccar team could do. I think that team would have a far bigger chance if winning both the Euro's and the World Cup than either of the current teams have.
I also agree that people here need to stop supporting foreign football teams from towns and cities they have probably never even been to let alone no where some of them are and start supporting there own local towns and cities.

Mad_maxx

cdeb wrote: »

Lots of countries play other sports. Do we play basketball or Olympic handball? They're huge in Croatia.

We need to get away from that line of thinking.

the former Eastern Bloc nations had a famously strong sporting culture , we like to think of ourselves as a very sporting nation - people , in terms of watching we are but you only have to see the number of chronicly unfit people to know thats where it ends

cdeb

AMKC wrote: »

They can try as hard as they like they will never beat Italy, Spain or Germany but we have I am sure beaten all three at some stage.

Actually...

They're also the only team ever to beat Germany home and away in the same qualifying campaign, in Euro 84.

trashcan

#

cdeb wrote: »

Actually...

They're also the only team ever to beat Germany home and away in the same qualifying campaign, in Euro 84.

They also beat Spain in the WC finals in 82. I remember being very jealous of the North in 82, as I felt we had a better side all round at the time and were very hard done by not to reach those finals (losing out on goal difference in a group with Belgium, France and Holland - not to mention being robbed by a dodgy ref in Brussels).

Both teams have had good spells, and top players - Best, Jennings, Martin O’Neil, Whiteside, Giles, Brady, McGrath, Keane (x2). At the moment there is no one of that calibre, or even close, on either side. I wouldn’t mind an all island team, but am happy enough to leave it till political unification (if that ever happens).

To go back to Downcows original post, yes I do think it was cringeworthy of a politician, who probably wouldn’t know if the ball was blown or stuffed, to raise it, just because we have had a bad result, and a bad winless run of games. By the way, when Michael ONeill took over as NI manager, he had an even worse run, before ultimately leading them to the Euro finals.

realdanbreen

downcow wrote: »

he was probably our best ever player .

He he, he went from what you described as " the most naturally talented player ever in the world" to " he was probably our best ever player" in 2 pages of posts.

I'm beginning to think you don't follow the game at all!

downcow

ittakestwo wrote: »

I do support the British and Irish lions when they're representing these islands as you say. If there was a football British and Irish lions I would support it too and I support Europe in the Ryder Cup. All these teams are representing me in one way.

It's laughable that a person from Ireland who would not support an all Ireland team because dem ones are on it would call people who would support an all Ireland team a bigot.

Your purposely not answering the question. Would you support the Roi team being done away with to create a british lions team.??

downcow

AMKC wrote: »

I see nothing wrong with quite.

It makes sense.

Rugby here is an all Ireland team so is hockey. I am not even sure if we have a basketball team.

I too think it is time that both the Northern Irish and Irish team joined as one team. It is stupid to have two competing teams not on this island but because of the size of Northern Ireland. They have what a population of 1.6 million and there own football team which I will admit has been pulling above its weight the last few years maybe even decade but were brought back down to Earth there recently when the played Italy. They can try as hard as they like they will never beat Italy, Spain or Germany but we have I am sure beaten all three at some stage. Just imagine what a United Irish Football/ Soccar team could do. I think that team would have a far bigger chance if winning both the Euro's and the World Cup than either of the current teams have.
I also agree that people here need to stop supporting foreign football teams from towns and cities they have probably never even been to let alone no where some of them are and start supporting there own local towns and cities.

I so surprised by this post I am just replying of the top of my head, and I may not be 100% accurate, but I am pretty close

Northern Ireland - beat Italy on the way to ensuring they missed the World Cup finals for the only time in their history
Northern Ireland - only team in the world to beat Germany home and away, in the same tournament
Northern Ireland - beat Spain the last time we played them in a competitive tournament - here are the goals, worth a watch - especially Healy's third. I have a notion that Healy may be the only person in the world to score a hat-trick against Spain

You might have to check your facts before you put down Northern Ireland again, we have a wonderful team to be proud of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuSYzNZPbMs

trashcan

downcow wrote: »

I so surprised by this post I am just replying of the top of my head, and I may not be 100% accurate, but I am pretty close

Northern Ireland - beat Italy on the way to ensuring they missed the World Cup finals for the only time in their history
Northern Ireland - only team in the world to beat Germany home and away, in the same tournament
Northern Ireland - beat Spain the last time we played them in a competitive tournament - here are the goals, worth a watch - especially Healy's third. I have a notion that Healy may be the only person in the world to score a hat-trick against Spain

You might have to check your facts before you put down Northern Ireland again, we have a wonderful team to be proud of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuSYzNZPbMs

Most of that has been pointed out by other posters. You also left out Spain, 82. We have also beaten Spain, Germany and Italy competitively. As I said earlier, both teams have had some terrific players and teams. We are both a long way from the glory days at the moment.

Sparko

downcow wrote: »

Northern Ireland - beat Spain the last time we played them in a competitive tournament - here are the goals, worth a watch - especially Healy's third. I have a notion that Healy may be the only person in the world to score a hat-trick against Spain

Ronaldo scored a hat trick against them in the 2018 World Cup. Healy in good company so!

downcow

realdanbreen wrote: »

He he, he went from what you described as " the most naturally talented player ever in the world" to " he was probably our best ever player" in 2 pages of posts.

I'm beginning to think you don't follow the game at all!

Now where is the contradiction in that. He was most naturally talented player in the world but he didn’t achieve for us at the level of pat Jennings or Steven Davis

I could name half a dozen that I could argue were best players for us and George would not be one of them. I think I would give it to Steven Davis

downcow

Lucy are you still going through footballing encyclopaedia to try and get to plate number 2 from anywhere other than derry who turned their back on ni?

This does highlight the picture some posters on here are trying to paint about ni, Windsor, billy b, etc

cdeb

downcow wrote: »

Northern Ireland - beat Italy on the way to ensuring they missed the World Cup finals for the only time in their history

Well, until four years ago, when Italy missed out on the 2018 World Cup with no help from the North.

downcow

cdeb wrote: »

Well, until four years ago, when Italy missed out on the 2018 World Cup with no help from the North.

Fair point. It happened again over half a century later

garbanzo

Genuine question. When did NI become a “nation” ?

ittakestwo

downcow wrote: »

Your purposely not answering the question. Would you support the Roi team being done away with to create a british lions team.??

It is the British and Irish Lions team btw. No I would not propose that but if there was such a side I would support it like with the British and Irish Lions in rugby.

You said you could not support an all Ireland football team and would have to support another team instead tho you could support an all UK football side even tho you wouldnt propose it. How come you could change from supporting NI to supporting an all UK side but could not change from supporting NI to UI football team. NI isn't your sovereign country but you still support it. So therefore you can supports teams that represent where you live that aren't your sovereign country . An all Ireland side is a team that is represtive of where you live and not your sovereign country like in rugby. So you can add English/Scottish/welsh players to the NI team and you would support that team. But adding players from the south and you cant support the team. That is bigotry towards the south whether you can see that or not.

Also I have watched NI play. The home Jersey is green and they also refer to themselves as Irish and not British in context of football yet it would be so controversial merging the two irish sides.

Five Eighth

Where in the ground were the Tricolours at that infamous World Cup playoff? Not there? Why not?((Union Jacks were in abundant evidence at the corresponding Lansdowne Road fixture).

Would Tricolour waving ROI supporters be made welcome at Windsor Park now? If not, why not?

Celtic players be made feel welcome playing for NI. I'm sure that Anton Rogan and Neil Lennon felt the love of the boos coming from the Windsor Park terraces.

Windsor Park is a cold place for Nationalists.

Sunny Disposition

There are some players who are Catholic playing for the north, but you’d be kidding yourself if you thought the Catholic population are not far more likely to support the Republic. And there’s nothing wrong with that.