Qatar v Republic of Ireland - Match Thread 30/3/21 K.O 7.45PM - RTE

callaway92

breezy1985 wrote: »

Luxembourg have used their limited resources with skill and intelligence and have shot up in rankings and performances thanks to that and Qatar have been spending a fortune on underage development and practically trafficking in talented kids to their league to naturalize them in preparation for the WC

Ireland have spent a fortune on parties full of coke and hookers or something like that and have lived off the vague hope that the English will keep making players for us despite football and demographics moving on

Right... well at this moment on paper we should be beating them. Not gonna win them all but that was a seriously disappointing performance.

McFly85

breezy1985 wrote: »

Luxembourg have used their limited resources with skill and intelligence and have shot up in rankings and performances thanks to that and Qatar have been spending a fortune on underage development and practically trafficking in talented kids to their league to naturalize them in preparation for the WC

Ireland have spent a fortune on parties full of coke and hookers or something like that and have lived off the vague hope that the English will keep making players for us despite football and demographics moving on

And due to the fallout of that, the FAIs player development fund has fallen from 400k to 80k. I have no idea how they can even begin to improve things with that paltry sum.

edgecutter

gandalf wrote: »

The longer we keep Kenny then the further we will slide down the rankings and whoever has to pick up the pieces after him will have a bigger mountain to climb. He should go now.

Slipping down the rankings isn't a bad thing. We need a reset and we need the FAI to have a long hard look at themselves and begin rectifying the mess that they have made. This will only happen when we reach rock bottom, not before.

kksaints

callaway92 wrote: »

Team Performance/Analysis. Work with the Scouts etc.

Their system is funny. All the Analysts of each team are employed by the Qatar FA, so twice a week they all sit together in a room to go over events from matches over a gameweek. All in the name of improving coaching and the game itself over there.

Interesting stuff although how transferable is that idea do you reckon? For a country with developing structures it sounds useful but for a country with some long and fairly bitter rivalries it doesn't feel like it would.

Francie Barrett

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

‘But who would you replace him with?’

The last refuge of the apologists when there is no more positive arguments to be made for a manager’s tenure.

I am sceptical, but I think we have to give him the full qualification campaign. I think the one thing that gives him a bit of leeway is that he is missing some very important players, Randolph, Egan, McCarthy, etc.. The next qualifiers come in September, I hope he can have something that's closer to a full strength squad, and maybe one or two of the kids can start showing something which might give us another option. The thing that scares me is just how poor we are in the striker department. The only player we appear to have who can lead the line to any effect in a 4-3-3 right now is Long. We desperately need someone to make a breakthrough here and that's something totally out of Kenny's control.

J Mysterio

breezy1985 wrote: »

Why. Why in god's name does talking to RTE matter Charlton and McCarthy were crap at it too. I'll take it over the likes of Klopp and Guardiola who are so full of their own $h1te and play up to their image like they are the Kardashians or something.

Hate him for the results if you want but all the moaning about his interviews is nonsense. Go watch Xfactor if that's what your after

This bollocks about 'he just needs to manage the team, he doesnt need to speak well', is just that - bollocks.

A manager needs to have some charisma. The man has absolutely none. A manager should have some ability to inspire his players. It doesn't have to be all big enthusiasm ala Klopp, it can be a quiet confidence or dignity too, but Kenny...

Also just very hard to trust someone if they can't make any eye contact, whatever about maintaining it. Constantly looking from left to right, anywhere but at the person asking him questions, it's bizarre.

He was also just stumbling all over himself. Half sentences. Rambling. It was horrendous, worse then after the Luxembourg game.

'We played well against Serbia', making excuses about Luxembourg. 'I'm used to winning' he said. And whatever other nonsense. Sounded like someone on trial trying to find any excuse to avoid what was coming his way, and failing. I've been watching football all my life and I've never seen a worse interview then that. I've never had less confidence in a manager to turn a situation around.

We don't have good players, but we're not this bad. The team are running around like headless chickens. The amount of unforced errors. It was bloody woeful. When the coverage was interupted, it was actually a relief. I don't think I've ever felt so negative about an Irish manager, or any other for that matter.

I wanted to believe in this project but it's just not working at all. It's like we have lost some of our strengths like hard work and heart, and replaced it with almost nothing at all.

noodler

The next qualifier will hurt.

We'd expect to lose in Portugal bit you feel it will be a heavy one and coupled with the record to-date it could really be a death-knell.


I can't believe the table.

Qualification isn't a week old and we are 7 points off the runners-up spot without a point to our names.

It's so depressing to not be competitive.

callaway92

kksaints wrote: »

Interesting stuff although how transferable is that idea do you reckon? For a country with developing structures it sounds useful but for a country with some long and fairly bitter rivalries it doesn't feel like it would.

Yeh that’s a good point. They’re a country absolutely starting from scratch in the grand scheme of things. I would say non-transferable when there’s genuine rivalries and other things there but it’s food for thought in some areas I’m sure.

MattressRick

I agree with most of this but he couldn't make eye contact when there was nobody standing in front of him

gandalf

sterz wrote: »

How do I think they'll do? They'll probably end up losing. But might draw. Or maybe even sneak a win.

How noncommittal of you. Imho that team still managed by Kenny will be destroyed by Portugal.

So you want him gone but you have no idea who they should replace him with, nor how much that whole idea of yours will cost.

I know one thing for certain after 11 games it's obvious to all except the most deluded that Kenny is not a manager capable of operating at an international level.

kksaints

callaway92 wrote: »

Yeh that’s a good point. They’re a country absolutely starting from scratch in the grand scheme of things. I would say non-transferable when there’s genuine rivalries and other things there but it’s food for thought in some areas I’m sure.

Might be an interesting idea for the underage structures for the LOI actually. Particularly for the first division clubs and the clubs without senior teams. Could help improve the quality of coaching at that level.

breezy1985

callaway92 wrote: »

Right... well at this moment on paper we should be beating them. Not gonna win them all but that was a seriously disappointing performance.

Looking at the Irish team and the players sitting at home not picked I don't expect us to beat anyone outside the complete nobodies.

We have one player right now and that's Coleman

~Rebel~

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

‘But who would you replace him with?’

The last refuge of the apologists when there is no more positive arguments to be made for a manager’s tenure.

In a situation like Ireland's it kind of is an important question though... like, we'd all accept that Kenny isn't "the best man for the job", but the best man for the job is probably someone like Marcelo Bielsa, who won't be coming near us.

We all understand from the very off that we're not dealing with ideal scenarios here. So when you're disappointed with what the more limited options get you after year-one, before you go sacking anyone you need to see if you can actually trade up.

I'm content to give him the friendlies and the next proper window - as much as anything so that the next person doesn't have to hang around a failed campaign for longer than necessary as that'll taint them too. Imagine coming into Portugal away for your first game - not ideal. So I'm happy enough for Kenny to have a chance to show that he's making a bit of progress in the Portugal/Azerbaijan/Serbia trio of fixtures. If he has, great. If not, we could look for a change then, while still giving a few dead-rubber games at the tail end of the campaign to the new hire.

breezy1985

J Mysterio wrote: »

This bollocks about 'he just needs to manage the team, he doesnt need to speak well', is just that - bollocks.

A manager needs to have some charisma. The man has absolutely none. A manager should have some ability to inspire his players. It doesn't have to be all big enthusiasm ala Klopp, it can be a quiet confidence or dignity too, but Kenny...

Also just very hard to trust someone if they can't make any eye contact, whatever about maintaining it. Constantly looking from left to right, anywhere but at the person asking him questions, it's bizarre.

He was also just stumbling all over himself. Half sentences. Rambling. It was horrendous, worse then after the Luxembourg game.

'We played well against Serbia', making excuses about Luxembourg. 'I'm used to winning' he said. And whatever other nonsense. Sounded like someone on trial trying to find any excuse to avoid what was coming his way, and failing. I've been watching football all my life and I've never seen a worse interview then that. I've never had less confidence in a manager to turn a situation around.

We don't have good players, but we're not this bad. The team are running around like headless chickens. The amount of unforced errors. It was bloody woeful. When the coverage was interupted, it was actually a relief. I don't think I've ever felt so negative about an Irish manager, or any other for that matter.

I wanted to believe in this project but it's just not working at all. It's like we have lost some of our strengths like hard work and heart, and replaced it with almost nothing at all.

The person asking the questions was half way across the continent.

And this idea that all Irish teams had work rate and heart is bollocks as if styles of footballing play is genetic. It's as tired as the "all Italians are defensive" or "all Brazilians have flair" BS

gandalf

edgecutter wrote: »

Slipping down the rankings isn't a bad thing. We need a reset and we need the FAI to have a long hard look at themselves and begin rectifying the mess that they have made. This will only happen when we reach rock bottom, not before.

I disagree the further down the rankings we go then we slip down another pot for the qualifier draws and that just makes it even harder to qualify for the euros/WC.

pjohnson

gandalf wrote: »

I disagree the further down the rankings we go then we slip down another pot for the qualifier draws and that just makes it even harder to qualify for the euros/WC.

Makes the excuses for Kenny much easier then.

sterz

gandalf wrote: »

How noncommittal of you. Imho that team still managed by Kenny will be destroyed by Portugal.



I know one thing for certain after 11 games it's obvious to all except the most deluded that Kenny is not a manager capable of operating at an international level.

I would argue that the ones deluded are those calling for him to be sacked and replaced with someone the FAI cannot afford.

By the way, would you say Michael O'Neill is capable of operating at this level?

LuckyLloyd

sterz wrote: »

I would argue that the ones deluded are those calling for him to be sacked and replaced with someone the FAI cannot afford.

By the way, would you say Michael O'Neill is capable of operating at this level?

My jaysus. Is this really the level the apologists are operating on? Don't confuse the end of a regime haven taken something as far as they can with one not up to it in the first place.

Under O'Neill we qualified for a tournament and lost in the playoffs for another. We were extremely competitive under him and it had simply run its course.

RonanG86

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

My jaysus. Is this really the level the apologists are operating on? Don't confuse the end of a regime haven taken something as far as they can with one not up to it in the first place.

Under O'Neill we qualified for a tournament and lost in the playoffs for another. We were extremely competitive under him and it had simply run its course.

Michael O'Neill not Martin.

I'd imagine Sterz' comparison is based on Michael making his name the same way as Kenny (pulling a team out of our basket case league into the Europa groups) and having a bad start.

gandalf

RonanG86 wrote: »

Michael O'Neill not Martin.

I'd imagine Sterz' comparison is based on Michael making his name the same way as Kenny (pulling a team out of our basket case league into the Europa groups) and having a bad start.

Michael O'Neill did qualify NI for the Euros and did make the playoffs with them. He's proven himself as an international manager. Kenny hasn't and won't.

As for saying the FAI can't afford to sack him I'd counter by saying they can't afford to leave him in charge much longer or we'll be in a far deeper hole than we are already in.

Bob the Seducer

noodler wrote: »

The next qualifier will hurt.

We'd expect to lose in Portugal bit you feel it will be a heavy one and coupled with the record to-date it could really be a death-knell.


I can't believe the table.

Qualification isn't a week old and we are 7 points off the runners-up spot without a point to our names.

It's so depressing to not be competitive.

You can't be competitive if you can't score goals, the only Irish forward producing at any level right now is Eoin Doyle in League 2. We have 4 or 5 young lads with potential, but none are scoring goals. We have nobody in form creating chances either through the centre or out wide right now at club or international level aside from Aiden McGeady in League 1. With the players at our disposal and the form they're in, we're in trouble and no change of tactics or management will provide a quick fix.

sterz

gandalf wrote: »

Michael O'Neill did qualify NI for the Euros and did make the playoffs with them. He's proven himself as an international manager. Kenny hasn't and won't.

As for saying the FAI can't afford to sack him I'd counter by saying they can't afford to leave him in charge much longer or we'll be in a far deeper hole than we are already in.

You do realise that he won one game in his first eighteen, right? Judging by your posts here you would have been calling for his head and saying he's not a proven international manager.

And he was hired in 2011 and qualified for the Euros in 2016. Stephen Kenny is in the job six months but yet you're convinced he's incapable of managing at this level.

McFly85

gandalf wrote: »

Michael O'Neill did qualify NI for the Euros and did make the playoffs with them. He's proven himself as an international manager. Kenny hasn't and won't.

As for saying the FAI can't afford to sack him I'd counter by saying they can't afford to leave him in charge much longer or we'll be in a far deeper hole than we are already in.

Before he did that, he brought them down to 129th in the world and then won 1 in 10 for the 2014 qualifiers, gaining 1 point from 2 games against Luxembourg in the process.

Lucky for them they stuck to their long term plan.

artanevilla

Michael O'Neill also came from a part-time League of Ireland team. (Rovers were still part-time then afaik). For people to say Kenny has to go because he only managed part time teams in the League of Ireland (untrue) and say we need someone like Michael O'Neill?

FYI for the uninitiated all LOI Premier Division teams train for the same amount of hours, full or part time, as with any professional league the only difference is some players go home after training and some go to work (they have mortgages to pay)

Zak Flaps

breezy1985 wrote: »

Why. Why in god's name does talking to RTE matter Charlton and McCarthy were crap at it too. I'll take it over the likes of Klopp and Guardiola who are so full of their own $h1te and play up to their image like they are the Kardashians or something.

Hate him for the results if you want but all the moaning about his interviews is nonsense. Go watch Xfactor if that's what your after

I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be saying that if either were the manager of Man Utd.

breezy1985

Zak Flaps wrote: »

I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be saying that if either were the manager of Man Utd.

Nope not a United fan or a fan of any PL club. As I said earlier I cant stand all this bickering Irish people do over English clubs

Fr Tod Umptious

Ok so it's clear that Kenny and Michael O'Neill come from the same background (LOI) and have started their international management campaigns with the same poor results in their opening 10 games or so.

But that in itself is not a reason to keep Kenny on, there is zero guarantee that things will turn around like they did in NI.

For all the people who think Kenny needs time, how long does he need ?
Is 10 games and 4 goals scored not enough ?

And as others have alluded to, it may be costly to let him go now, but the cost of coming bottom of the group,va real possibility, could be much greater.

pjohnson

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Ok so it's clear that Kenny and Michael O'Neill come from the same background (LOI) and have started their international management campaigns with the same poor results in their opening 10 games or so.

But that in itself is not a reason to keep Kenny on, there is zero guarantee that things will turn around like they did in NI.

For all the people who think Kenny needs time, how long does he need ?
Is 10 games and 4 goals scored not enough ?

And as others have alluded to, it may be costly to let him go now, but the cost of coming bottom of the group,va real possibility, could be much greater.

Azerbaijan are below us for now after yesterday so thats a help to us. If we can hang on against them and get two draws we should stay above them.

Fr Tod Umptious

pjohnson wrote: »

Azerbaijan are below us for now after yesterday so thats a help to us. If we can hang on against them and get two draws we should stay above them.

The fact that I don't know whether you are being sarcastic or not sums up this whole situation for me.

pjohnson

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

The fact that I don't know whether you are being sarcastic or not sums up this whole situation for me.

I wish it was sarcasm but for Kenny and his progressive ways draws are the best we can hope for.

Fr Tod Umptious

pjohnson wrote: »

I wish it was sarcasm but for Kenny and his progressive ways draws are the best we can hope for.

Agree, I cannot see the likes of Azerbaijan being a guaranteed win like the likes of Azerbaijan being a guaranteed win used to be previously.

ben.schlomo

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Agree, I cannot see the likes of Azerbaijan being a guaranteed win like the likes of Azerbaijan being a guaranteed win used to be previously.

You mean when we had better players who played at a higher level and also played regularly? Cool.

DeanAustin

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Ok so it's clear that Kenny and Michael O'Neill come from the same background (LOI) and have started their international management campaigns with the same poor results in their opening 10 games or so.

But that in itself is not a reason to keep Kenny on, there is zero guarantee that things will turn around like they did in NI.

For all the people who think Kenny needs time, how long does he need ?
Is 10 games and 4 goals scored not enough ?

And as others have alluded to, it may be costly to let him go now, but the cost of coming bottom of the group,va real possibility, could be much greater.

It's not a reason to keep Kenny on in itself but it's reason enough to give him a fair crack of the whip. He's not had that yet as disappointing as his tenure has been so far.

I'd give him to the end of this campaign. If he has us competitive by the end of it, I'd extend him. If we're getting comfortably beat by Serbia and Portugal and not taking 6-9 points against Luxembourg and Azerbaijan then I'd let him go.

gandalf

sterz wrote: »

You do realise that he won one game in his first eighteen, right? Judging by your posts here you would have been calling for his head and saying he's not a proven international manager.

And he was hired in 2011 and qualified for the Euros in 2016. Stephen Kenny is in the job six months but yet you're convinced he's incapable of managing at this level.

I'm not Northern Irish so THB what happens with their team doesn't get me exercised at all. I do like to see them do well. Given the Provence's population is a third of ours they have a much smaller pool of players and wouldn't be as attractive a proposition for an external manager. I'm sure that played into the IFA's decision to stick with O'Neill.

We lost to Luxembourg and drew with Qatar, even with the limited resources available to us we should be beating teams like that.

noodler

McFly85 wrote: »

Before he did that, he brought them down to 129th in the world and then won 1 in 10 for the 2014 qualifiers, gaining 1 point from 2 games against Luxembourg in the process.

Lucky for them they stuck to their long term plan.

But the same people complaining about our style won't be happy with that adopted by NI and Michael.

If we're going to play their way and use our players strengths...well that's pretty much what we were doing pre-Kenny.

gandalf

noodler wrote: »

But the same people complaining about our style won't be happy with that adopted by NI and Michael.

If we're going to play their way and use our players strengths...well that's pretty much what we were doing pre-Kenny.

Given we are a nation that doesn't produce Zicos, Messi's, Ronaldo's or Lewandowski's maybe with should work with what we have. If our best path to results is to play in an organised fashion that isn't "pretty" so be it.

Beyond shipping a load of lads to Brazil to start a clandestine "Irish Samba team" breeding program the only other solution is the FAI to set up a proper professional nationwide academy program. Actually the Brazil idea is more realistic 😉

Bob Harris

i have no problem with leaving Kenny in the job. He's fully committed to it and has his plan. Results aren't good but can't get much worse.
Give him time to develop what he has to hand.

If he had a team of quality players and we were rubbish then you couldn't make a case for him. However we don't have the quality to expect much more than we are getting so give him time to see if he's capable of getting us to perform and get better results than the sum of our parts.

Big Ears

gandalf wrote: »

I'm not Northern Irish so THB what happens with their team doesn't get me exercised at all. I do like to see them do well. Given the Provence's population is a third of ours they have a much smaller pool of players and wouldn't be as attractive a proposition for an external manager. I'm sure that played into the IFA's decision to stick with O'Neill.

We lost to Luxembourg and drew with Qatar, even with the limited resources available to us we should be beating teams like that.

Okay well that's great that we could attract someone else, but the reality is we don't have the €500,000-€750,000 required to get rid of Kenny and appoint someone else.

So you can start a go fund me to change that or accept that another manager won't be coming in till this campaign is over anyway.

Frankly I'm happy to give Kenny time and see if he can change things, because the only alternative for the FAI (unless someone wants to give them a dig out), is to place Kenny on gardening leave and appoint Robbie Keane as manager on the same salary he's already on.......and tbh that's a much scarier proposition.

Ferris_Bueller

For those who think Kenny should be sacked, what happens then? Who gets the job? Top four favourites are currently Roy, Robbie, Neil Lennon and Keith Andrews. If they were to take over in the morning what changes for the better?

johnnyryan89

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Agree, I cannot see the likes of Azerbaijan being a guaranteed win like the likes of Azerbaijan being a guaranteed win used to be previously.

Azerbaijan aren't a guaranteed win because we struggle to break teams down, and Azerbaijan will stick men behind the ball playing for a draw and hoping to nick a goal. Both Portugal and Serbia only beat them by a single goal. If people thought this window was bad, wait until September rolls around and we've three competitive games in a week against Portugal, Azerbaijan and Serbia.

applehunter

Good response from team last night.

Qatar were decent.

JKerova1

applehunter wrote: »

Good response from team last night.

Qatar were decent.

I presume you are taking the piss?

Beechwoodspark

Fair play to the Norwegian fans.

They are going to vote on whether Norway should compete in the Qatar World Cup

Over 6 thousand migrant workers have died already in Qatar building stadiums etc for the World Cup

For those who aren’t aware Qatar is a human rights cess pit.

The Qatar World Cup should be boycotted

~Rebel~

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Fair play to the Norwegian fans.

They are going to vote on whether Norway should compete in the Qatar World Cup

Over 6 thousand migrant workers have died already in Qatar building stadiums etc for the World Cup

For those who aren’t aware Qatar is a human rights cess pit.

The Qatar World Cup should be boycotted

I agree with you - but just for the sake of clarity in information, the stadium worker deaths is in the 30's. The ~6,000 is total deaths on any and all Qatar construction/development since they won the world cup bid. A fair chunk of that is on stuff that will be used by the world cup - hotels, public transport links etc - but its a heavy construction/development country anyway, so a lot of these projects would likely have been built either way.

But regardless, Qatar should never have been given the world cup given the use of the kafala system, and sportswashing practices etc. We know there was a tonne of corruption involved in winning the bid, with plenty of those who voted ending up in jail. A byproduct of those investigations HAD to be stripping the world cup from them as well.

There's an argument by some that hosting it there shines a light on it, perhaps encouraging change. I'd be of the opposite view, that actively not giving it to them because of these practices would have been a stronger push for change. It would have said "unless you change, you can't play with us". Instead the message has been "throw money at it, and you can do what you want".

McFly85

noodler wrote: »

But the same people complaining about our style won't be happy with that adopted by NI and Michael.

If we're going to play their way and use our players strengths...well that's pretty much what we were doing pre-Kenny.

I’m not so much advocating for completely copying NI as I am for allowing ourselves to look beyond one qualifying campaign.

NI were at a stage where they accepted qualification wasn’t realistic so set longer term goals. I think the quality of our squad is such that I think World Cup qualification would have been very unlikely anyway, and maybe targeting automatic qualification for 2024 would be more realistic. The young members of the team will be bedded in and they should know exactly what Kenny wants from them at that stage.

My biggest fear is that if Kenny doesn’t work out, that we revert back to high wage managers for a short term fix. If we had a million for that, I’d much prefer it to be spent on improving youth player development, as that will have a far longer lasting impact.

sterz

gandalf wrote: »

I'm not Northern Irish so THB what happens with their team doesn't get me exercised at all. I do like to see them do well. Given the Provence's population is a third of ours they have a much smaller pool of players and wouldn't be as attractive a proposition for an external manager. I'm sure that played into the IFA's decision to stick with O'Neill.

We lost to Luxembourg and drew with Qatar, even with the limited resources available to us we should be beating teams like that.

I'm not Northern Irish either so I'm not all that bothered by what they do. I mentioned them though to pull you up on your idea as to who is/isn't capable of managing an international team.

As to the pool of players available, I'm not sure what the numbers look like. But I guess the gap isn't as big as you think considering we're competing with the GAA here. I don't think the Ireland job will lure in too many people externally so it's not all that dissimilar to the North in that case.

Judging by your previous posts I just can't imagine you being on board with a manager winning one game in eighteen and still considering him a manager capable of managing at this level.