Schools and Covid 19 (part 5) **Mod warnings in OP**

Bananaleaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118298739#Comment_118298739

100%. If they are going to do this, they need to decide now. It's ridiculously disrespectful to working parents announcing it with a day or two's notice

Ellie2008

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118278289#Comment_118278289

I’m not having a go I’m genuinely asking why would it be convenient not to discuss that?

spaceHopper

There are roughly 1 million households in Ireland, so the 100 Euro off your next energy bill is going to cost 100 Million Euros. Yet they couldn't find 80 million to make schools safer because of "procurement rules" or some other nonsense. Raging

For some people it will be life line others nice and all as it is it's not needed they aren't struggling.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118275982#Comment_118275982

Do you know if there is any provision in law or statutory instrument that requires or mandates the wearing of face masks in primary schools? Received several notifications from the school and they don't say what the requirement is. The wording appears to be intentionally vague...

History Queen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118301058#Comment_118301058

Not sure. The circular issued to schools might be what you are looking for?

ginoginelli

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118299497#Comment_118299497

Because then they would have to address ventilation in a serious manner. In order to do this they would need to allocate funds and change legislation. Many businesses and amenities would have to be retrofitted etc. It would be a costly and a significant undertaking.

Its much easier and cheaper for them to just emphasize handwashing, hand sanitizers, and wiping down surfaces etc.

solerina

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118295386#Comment_118295386

We don’t have any staggered times, we don’t have pods (a total con anyway) we don’t have any staff room restrictions, we don’t have different yard times (yard time in PP ???). We do have masks and windows open and useless carbon dioxide monitors !!

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118301058#Comment_118301058

As far as I'm aware there's no legal mandate but like so much else (eg: the "requirement" for doing antigen testing after you've travelled) it's intentionally phrased and reported to confuse people as to where it's law or not, in order to coerce them into complying anyway.

Last I saw (been out of the loop a few days) they'd backtracked on this one to say that schools should engage with individual parents who object - dumping it on the staff to sort out essentially.

jrosen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118298631#Comment_118298631

I heard that, seems to be doing the rounds on social media too. Parents can keep their kids home if the want too no need for the dept to make that call.

Bananaleaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118305684#Comment_118305684

And there is an argument for (at least at second level) keeping them in school, which is a controlled environment where they will be socially distanced and wearing masks, opposed to having them out in shopping centres with larger groups where they'd probably be more likely to pick it up

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118302195#Comment_118302195

If you don't have any staffroom restrictions, then that is the biggest risk in your school.

Icyseanfitz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118305858#Comment_118305858

And the question of why does the responsibility of what children do outside of school hours/days fall to schools as opposed to parents being responsible needs to be asked as well.

Personally I would like to finish up Friday the 17th so as to have an extra few days to check for symptoms/antigen testing before visiting my elderly parents/in laws. If this means the schools are back a few days earlier so be it.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118298631#Comment_118298631

There was a piece in the IT which mentioned the extreme annoyance of parents with the enforced Storm Barra closure of many schools unnecessarily. The government would be wise to let the term finish as planned, especially as nothing in case numbers or hospitalisations warrants any other changes this side of Christmas.

MilkyToast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118305684#Comment_118305684

That's what I'll be doing. One of mine has a cold that looks like it'll be here at least half of this week, and we're spending Christmas day with a few particularly vulnerable relatives. I'll see if their teachers want to give them anything to work on at home but they won't be going in.

Bananaleaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118308793#Comment_118308793

I hear you, but Mon 20th - Wed 22nd 9-3 is not outside of school hours. If the sole reason for closing those days is too keep transmission as low as possible amongst schoolchildren, then it makes more sense to keep the schools open than it does to close them. I'm talking secondary now, not primary.

I would also like to be off earlier to be on the safe side. I have my vulnerable father coming to spend Christmas with us. But, to be fair, we are contracted to work up to the 22nd so why shouldn't we? Shops and supermarkets will be working even later!

Bananaleaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118308814#Comment_118308814

I agree with you that the schools (unless something major changes) don't need to close early. But, I just have to point out that you will find parents who get annoyed at everything. If we didn't do stuff just to appease the annoyed parents, we'd do nothing. I'm generalising now and I know that, but they were gas last year. Raging that the schools were open, then raging when they closed. Raging that too much work was being sent home then raging there wasn't enough of it. 'Teachers are lazy so-and-sos who don't deserve a wage and sure I could do what they do in me back shed with no training' yet at the same time 'Our kids have suffered enough and are so far behind, they are regressing and we can't be expected to do this, you need to get the teachers back'

If the schools hadn't closed because of Storm Barra, you can bet they'd have been raging about that too.

DSN

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118309989#Comment_118309989

Agree. Am sure all retail staff, hospitality staff & nurses & doctors would all love to finish up this Friday ;) And as for anyone using the treble vaccinated 'elderly parents' excuse now - a pure cod. Teachers I know never stopped seeing their elderly parents because they work Mon-Fri. Visiting your parents is not just for Christmas!

DSN

copeyhagen

i just read on facebook the schools are closing from yesterday....

TTLF

Hey guys, just wanted to throw my 2 cents in here RE: Schools possibly closing Friday.

I understand this doesn't apply to every school, which is understandable, but is it not a wise choice to close schools a week earlier considering the final week is spent watching movies/cake sales etc?

I think throughout my years in primary/secondary school, we always had a week after exams where it was just wasted doing no substantial learning. I recall we used to just practice for the Christmas play (which isn't happening in Primary schools this year) and in Secondary school, we spent the week watching movies/ having free classes once we got our test results back.

I don't particularly think it'll do anyone harm to finish 4 days earlier considering the final week isn't even the full 5 days and you really learn nothing substantial in the final week? (even in 6th year, once I had done my Christmas exams, learning was the last thing on my mind.)

I think I pose this reason because COVID is pretty bad currently. I understand we're all vaccinated so it should reduce the severity of symptoms, but I unfortunately caught COVID 2 weeks ago (most likely in college where it's rampant currently) and it was still an unpleasant time, and now my sister has it. My cousin (who is a primary school teacher) has also caught COVID now too...

I'd just feel really unfortunate for any poor kid who catches COVID a week before Christmas and ends up losing out on seeing family or doing the traditional Christmas festivities like my family have. I'd also argue they don't need to re-open schools "earlier" either considering the final week isn't even a proper learning week and just fun activities. Other countries like the Netherlands and Denmark have closed their primary schools (I believe?) so it's obvious something's up...

Anyway, I hope the government manages to make the right decision. I'd really hope it's not a situation like last year where they didn't foresee the advice and schools/college's ending up going online for up to 5 months. It wasn't a particularly fun time for anyone.

iamwhoiam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118310022#Comment_118310022

You are indeed generalising and its a bit unfair . I am not a parent but a grandparent . I know many young parents , family , friends , neighbours and my own kids friends

The vast majority of parents have played a blinder this year . Homeschooling while trying to work from home , encouraging , supporting and doing their very best to try to overcome a hurdle they were never prepared for

Teachers too have stepped up and the vast majority have done their utmost to make this year easy when it really wasn’t

They all deserve credit and not be lumped in with the minority who love a good whinge

Bananaleaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118324669#Comment_118324669

To be fair, it's not teachers running with this 'close the schools early' - that has been coming from immunologists. I've no doubt teachers have been rubbing their hands together at the thoughts of possibly getting off a bit earlier - I know I have and tbh, who wouldn't? - but we haven't been going looking for it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118327545#Comment_118327545

I see where you are coming from, but the final week isn't entirely spent watching films and doing cake sales. Certainly not in all schools anyway. However, even if it was, students (in secondary school at least) are WAY LESS LIKELY to contract Covid whilst sitting, masked, in a room, 1.1m apart from their friends and using sanitiser regularly for half the day than they are if they are let "stay home to stop the spread". Do you really think they will all stay at home for those 3 days?

Any student or family have genuine concerns about catching Covid in school can stay home. They don't have to come in. If they are that worried about catching it in school, they probably will actually stay home and will be safer.

But there are lots who don't care and come to school without masks, not wearing masks properly, don't sanitise etc, etc. If we close the schools 3 days early, we are letting all of those lot loose on society, where they will definitely go to local shopping centres/into cities/go to house parties/meet up with groups of friends.

Schools should stay open. Parents are capable of making their own decisions. They can take them out if they wish, no school would judge or blame them.

Bananaleaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118327599#Comment_118327599

Yeah, it probably is a bit unfair, but so is the insane level of generalising and bashing that is directed at teachers on these forums. It might be the minority to love a good whinge, but when they are the only ones out there actually saying anything at all, they appear very much like the majority.

You would have your work severely cut out for you if you went searching this thread for posts written in praise of teachers.

iamwhoiam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118327686#Comment_118327686

In my opinion boards is really not a reflection of the general public . Mainly its for those who want a good whinge about everything and anything !!

My granddaughter is in 2 nd class and had three teachers during this pandemic . They have been amazing and deserve all credit for it . Her teacher this year deserves a medal !

TTLF

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118327610#Comment_118327610

Fair point made. Nice flip on my argument I agree.

I suppose it'll always be down to the individuals actions, maybe people think it's not good to stay open considering schools were seen as "the place they were contracting it" by many adults but we can never really know for sure. I mean sure look at me, I THINK I contracted COVID in college, but it's not to say I didn't get it at the shop or from a friend either, college was just more likely with the lecture hall filled with 300+ people considering the mentality is usually "more people = bigger chance"

Any-who, I just hope any decision doesn't impact a closure of school or college for a long time like last year.

Bananaleaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118327728#Comment_118327728

That is really nice of you to say. If you haven't already, say it to her face. A parent spoke to me last week and said some really nice things and I know I shouldn't need the reassurance, but it was really lovely to hear it.

Yes, you are right. In fact - the major teacher/parent problem with boards, is that I think the good parents are not really on here because they are too busy being good parents and they are actually looking after their children. And the poor teachers are not really on here because they barely teach when they are IN school so certainly wouldn't have any interest in discussing or debating it when at home.

So we end up with a load of parents with chips on their shoulders (possibly rightly so in some cases for all I know), directing it at the wrong types of teachers altogether.

Bananaleaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118327784#Comment_118327784

I remember your posts from last year, when you were sitting the LC. See, your post above approaches the situation from a responsible angle. Unfortunately all LC students are not as responsible as you.

Re: closures in Jan, I hope it doesn't lead to closures in Jan again too. It shouldn't. Unlike last year, all adults who want it are double-vaxxed and by early Jan, all if not most teachers who want it will have a booster jab.

We had a Covid inspection in our school yesterday and trust me when I say that the line of (very leading if I do say so myself) questioning that was put to the students indicates that they have zero intention of closing schools in Jan.

I'd love an early break. My dad is coming to me for Xmas and he is in the vulnerable category (although he has booster) but as much as I want it, I know I can still stay safe and stay in work until 22nd if I take responsibility. This week I go from my car to my classes, back to my car and home again and that is it! It's only for a few more days

TTLF

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118327862#Comment_118327862

Yeah I'll agree last year was a stressful time for most LC students, I wanted to give my voice on here since I believe I was the only LC student on this forum (or active) at the time. I was able to get into my first choice in the end though. :)

Very responsible attitude of you considering some teachers/people would fully go about living their life during a crucial "family meeting" period that'll come up.

Re Jan: Obviously I'm out of school now, so I haven't been able to get an inside view into how schools are being monitored anymore, however I will say College's are.... really really poor. I sit in UCD and I'll get a text on my phone stating "SOMEONE HAS TESTED POSITIVE IN YOUR CLASS, STILL ATTEND COLLEGE UNLESS YOU GET SYMPTOMS." I understand there's no real way to deal with it in college since it's a very in-out-in fluid unstructured system unlike school, but I just pray I'm not sitting at home doing my modules online because I think it'll make college unbearable. I don't particularly like January anyway since it's quite boring, but making me do college at home will just really make it worse.

It's unfortunate too, I caught COVID in late November and because of that, I lost my holiday to Budapest, and many many other plans I had in the works for a "fun filled" December. Now my sister (and personally think mother but we don't know yet) have caught COVID too, so my family is really going through it at the moment.

It's a shame because my other sister was only back in teaching her kids last Monday and then storm Barra hit (which I loved lol) and now she's out again due to my middle sister catching COVID for the rest of the term! Such a shame because she loves her job and now she and I are stuck at home waiting it out since we've already had COVID in the last 9 months.

There should be some sort of COVID inspection in Colleges because I have to be honest there's 0 precautions and I most likely picked it up from there since I just went to class, saw a few friends and went to work. I guess that's my fault for not being vigilant enough though.

I hope all's well and you have a lovely Christmas, I'm meant to be visiting my family in Northern Ireland on Christmas day (first time in years) but I think that might be cancelled and the final thing I was looking forward to this year "ruined" in sorts. But that's okay, health is more important even if I feel upset over it. It's just life.

While there are some merits to schools finishing 2.5 days earlier, I do think it creates a couple of problems.

1) We know it won’t be a 2.5 day closure. It will spiral into weeks/months. This is a given with our leadership at the moment re: Omicron, and our union will probably cry ‘unsafe’. If we close schools as a preventative this time, we’ll do it again and again.

2) I don’t like immunologists (no matter how good they may be) dictating when schools should be open or not. A DCU professor shouldn’t be calling for schools to be closed. Same for public health bodies. It’s a government decision. If they say no closure, that should be the end of discussion IMO.

Again, as I said, I can see the merits - it’s not massively important days missed, and it might calm down school age incidence. I feel for parents and kids too, two days before a mooted closure and it’s still all speculation, it’s no way to run things. I fully expect nphet tomorrow to recommend schools close the next day.

Teacher2020

Yes, in our school we spend Christmas week doing nice things - having extra play time, playing bingo, Santa visiting, having hot chocolate, doing puzzles, listening to Christmas music, having chats about Christmas etc. It is such a lovely time of the year. There is so much social learning happening during those few days, which a lot of children have missed out on during the pandemic. So yes while formal learning may have stopped in many schools, those social and fun experiences are not to be underestimated, especially for children that may not have the happiest of home lives. I think schools should stay open until Wednesday.