Schools and Covid 19 (part 5) **Mod warnings in OP**

Icyseanfitz

History Queen wrote: »

One of the SNAs in my school is basically doing this as the child whose needs she is trying to meet are mobility needs. The student doesn't need her in the class but needs help moving class to class, and for mask breaks. The SNA hates it as she feels under utilised. The other two SNAs in our school are in class with the students they work with as the needs are different.

Regardless of the need we are to be in class, at least thats the understanding I have. I'd have many students that don't need me within the class all the time, so I'd float around and try to help the other students who might be struggling, assist teachers etc.

History Queen

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

Regardless of the need we are to be in class, at least thats the understanding I have. I'd have many students that don't need me within the class all the time, so I'd float around and try to help the other students who might be struggling, assist teachers etc.

That's how it used to be in my school too but they changed/edited the duties I think two or three years ago? You probably know better than I do. Apparently our school are being much more prescriptive in their interpretation than other schools have been. The SNA I'm talking about had tried to get her union involved as she's so unhappy with her new role but apparently it's allowed. I had her in some of my classes with a different student a few years ago and she was a fantastic asset to the whole class, I don't understand why management are not utilusing her more.

Icyseanfitz

History Queen wrote: »

That's how it used to be in my school too but they changed/edited the duties I think two or three years ago? You probably know better than I do. Apparently our school are being much more prescriptive in their interpretation than other schools have been. The SNA I'm talking about had tried to get her union involved as she's so unhappy with her new role but apparently it's allowed. I had her in some of my classes with a different student a few years ago and she was a fantastic asset to the whole class, I don't understand why management are not utilusing her more.

Yeah they seem to be constantly trying to change our roles, now its supposed to be purely care needs and not educational at all, the reality is far different though considering the majority of the kids we work with in mainstream have learning difficulties and not medical needs. Never mind that the line between a care need and an educational need can be anything but black and white with a diagnosis like ASD or EBD.

History Queen

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

Yeah they seem to be constantly trying to change our roles, now its supposed to be purely care needs and not educational at all, the reality is far different though considering the majority of the kids we work with in mainstream have learning difficulties and not medical needs. Never mind that the line between a care need and an educational need can be anything but black and white with a diagnosis like ASD or EBD.

Absolutely. Do you happen to know the rationale for the change? Seems so counter intuitive! Surely anything that helps students should be encouraged. I assume this was the Department of Education having yet another "bright idea".

Icyseanfitz

History Queen wrote: »

Absolutely. Do you happen to know the rationale for the change? Seems so counter intuitive! Surely anything that helps students should be encouraged. I assume this was the Department of Education having yet another "bright idea".

I'd imagine that putting an SNAs role down as " care" versus medical or educational leaves it wide open to interpretation which seems to be the departments way really. Leaves us open to be used for just about anything if it can be pigeon holed as a "care need", sure last years attempted redeployment fiasco was a case in point.

SusanC10

At what point should a Parent tell the school that they have concerns that their child may have Covid ?
When they have symptoms ? Only if positive Test ? If a family member has symptoms or is getting tested as a close contact ?

wirelessdude01

SusanC10 wrote: »

At what point should a Parent tell the school that they have concerns that their child may have Covid ?
When they have symptoms ? Only if positive Test ? If a family member has symptoms or is getting tested as a close contact ?

We ask parents not to send their kids to school if they have any symptoms. Also most of our parents seem to keep their kids at home until results if someone within the family has been sent for a test. We have asked to be made aware of this. Most schools I know of seem to operate very similar to this.

SusanC10

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

We ask parents not to send their kids to school if they have any symptoms. Also most of our parents seem to keep their kids at home until results if someone within the family has been sent for a test. We have asked to be made aware of this. Most schools I know of seem to operate very similar to this.

Thanks.

One of my daughters friends was not at school today. She texted my daughter now to say that she is going for a Covid test as she has symptoms which started yesterday. She was last at school Friday. Her brother was at school today and I saw the father collecting him.

I don't know the Parents that well but my daughter would hang out/play with the girl as part of a group every day at school.

Darwin

Two secondary schools with covid outbreaks in the town where my wife works . Her own school in the clear for now, but one of her students admitted to having a birthday party over the weekend with a very large group in attendance.

SusanC10

Darwin wrote: »

Two secondary schools with covid outbreaks in the town where my wife works . Her own school in the clear for now, but one of her students admitted to having a birthday party over the weekend with a very large group in attendance.

Do you mind me asking where this is ? Even the County. Thanks.

wirelessdude01

Darwin wrote: »

Two secondary schools with covid outbreaks in the town where my wife works . Her own school in the clear for now, but one of her students admitted to having a birthday party over the weekend with a very large group in attendance.

Very , very common. Neighbour asked in our estate FB group today if anyone had an issue with them having a birthday party for their son over the May Bank Holiday weekend. No fcuks given as they all had covid over Christmas.

Darwin

@SusanC10 I'd rather not say publicly to be honest, it's in the mid-West region. I'm not really surprised to hear that wirelessdude01, the media obsession with international travel is ignoring the elephant in the room so to speak.

SusanC10

Darwin wrote: »

@SusanC10 I'd rather not say publicly to be honest, it's in the mid-West region. I'm not really surprised to hear that wirelessdude01, the media obsession with international travel is ignoring the elephant in the room so to speak.

That's fine. Totally understand. I am in the North-East.

DSN

If my child just had symptoms but no known positive contacts & she was going for a test I keep them out of course but probably would not tell the school unless positive because high chances of it not being covid & no point in needless panic or stressing. If they were getting tested with symptoms &/or because they were in contact with a person who was positive then I would give the teacher / their friends the heads up because there is a higher chance it could be covid.

khalessi

DSN wrote: »

If my child just had symptoms but no known positive contacts & she was going for a test I keep them out of course but probably would not tell the school unless positive because high chances of it not being covid & no point in needless panic or stressing. If they were getting tested with symptoms &/or because they were in contact with a person who was positive then I would give the teacher / their friends the heads up because there is a higher chance it could be covid.

Once they are going for a test, it is better to tell the school

DSN

khalessi wrote: »

Once they are going for a test, it is better to tell the school

What purpose would it serve though by telling the school though - would they pull other kids or teachers out of school just because my child had a temp or something?
I thought of it because this w/e my daughter was sick (stomach). If she's got a temp with it (common with stomach bugs of course) I'd have arranged a test. Cases in our area ex. low & no known contacts & I was thinking at the time would I tell the school if I had to do that. Anyway she never got a temp & recovered so never had to deal with it.

harr

How long does it take track and trace to make contact ? my child ( special needs ) was on same bus as another child who got positive result yesterday.
School got no word officially on it yet .. only reason they know is the bus company has pulled two buses and staff off the road. If he has to be tested I really don’t know how we will manage him .

SusanC10

This is what I think is meant to happen if either of our kids have symptoms of Covid. Am I wrong ?

Child has symptoms. Call GP. If GP says that child needs a test then all of the household should restrict movement and not go to work/school until there is a result. If child positive, then all of household and other close contact should be tested.

I am just confused now as one of our daughter's classmates has been referred for a test as she has symptoms but her sibling is at school.

wirelessdude01

SusanC10 wrote: »

I am just confused now as one of our daughter's classmates has been referred for a test as she has symptoms but her sibling is at school.

If the test referral is due to external(non family) close contact then I think siblings are allowed carry on attending school. Know most parents in our school pull them out as a common courtesy to the school community.

SusanC10

SusanC10 wrote: »

This is what I think is meant to happen if either of our kids have symptoms of Covid. Am I wrong ?

Child has symptoms. Call GP. If GP says that child needs a test then all of the household should restrict movement and not go to work/school until there is a result. If child positive, then all of household and other close contact should be tested.

I am just confused now as one of our daughter's classmates has been referred for a test as she has symptoms but her sibling is at school.

You are correct. The siblings should be at home if they have symptoms. If they are being referred because they are a close contact and dont have symptoms, siblings do not need to remain at home. This should be the first thing the person referring the individual for testing should have told the parent.

average_runner

Deleted User wrote: »

You are correct. The siblings should be at home if they have symptoms. If they are being referred because they are a close contact and dont have symptoms, siblings do not need to remain at home. This should be the first thing the person referring the individual for testing should have told the parent.

When our daughter was a close contact in the school, we told the principal of the boys school as our son is there. Most of the girls class had brothers in this class.


We were told to send them in. Anyhow all worked out ok, virus didn't spread and just one case since they open in March, no cases in the boys school

JDD

Yeah, I think if you have a child who is a close contact and is awaiting a test result you can send in their siblings. That's the HSE advice and I agree with it. It might be different if the child had symptoms - there's a higher chance of a positive result in those circumstances. But if the overall positivity rate is 3%, it's even less for those presenting for a test as a close contact.

To put it in perspective, if you had 50 children testing positive each day, that means there are 2450 children testing negative. If each of those had a sibling and they had to stay home while a test was being arranged and result awaited, you would have lost nearly 5000 school days, each day, unnecessarily. Or 25,000 school days per week. That's an enormous amount. It is a necessary step to take for the children that have actually been sent for a test, but there's no need to compound the days lost for the very very remote chance that a sibling might also be infected.

shtpEdthePlum

History Queen wrote: »

Absolutely. Do you happen to know the rationale for the change? Seems so counter intuitive! Surely anything that helps students should be encouraged. I assume this was the Department of Education having yet another "bright idea".

It's so that primary care needs (medication, toileting, mobility, feeding, withdrawal etc as per circular 0030/2018) are the ones that SNAs are allocated for. Secondary needs that SNAs attend to, such as organisation, behaviour correction, assistance with work etc are regarded as "extras" and if they have time to be doing them they're surplus to requirement because the school should have plans, adapted curriculum, modified timetable, behaviour tracking systems etc in place to account for the management of these needs.

I've seen schools have SNA support withdrawn by Dept because on their application they filled in some secondary care needs.

Do spread the word on this, because it's outlined in the circular... it's not a big secret or anything.

JDD

JDD wrote: »

Yeah, I think if you have a child who is a close contact and is awaiting a test result you can send in their siblings. That's the HSE advice and I agree with it. It might be different if the child had symptoms - there's a higher chance of a positive result in those circumstances. But if the overall positivity rate is 3%, it's even less for those presenting for a test as a close contact.

To put it in perspective, if you had 50 children testing positive each day, that means there are 2450 children testing negative. If each of those had a sibling and they had to stay home while a test was being arranged and result awaited, you would have lost nearly 5000 school days, each day, unnecessarily. Or 25,000 school days per week. That's an enormous amount. It is a necessary step to take for the children that have actually been sent for a test, but there's no need to compound the days lost for the very very remote chance that a sibling might also be infected.

Its not just that.

If a child is a close contact of a case outside school, they have a median 5 day incubation period, and their siblings again have a median 5 day incubation period. If in the scenario when the child who was potentially exposed did in fact develop covid and pass it on to the siblings, by the time the siblings were infectious and at risk of passing it on to subsequent contacts, the child would in the vast majority of cases have a positive test and /or symptoms and the siblings isolated before they became infectious. Well, as long as everyone does as they should

SusanC10

I am finding that most Parents are confused about what to do if their child has symptoms. Based on the Class WhatsApp. And now it is confusing me too.

So, I thought that if a child had any 1 of the listed symptoms, they were not to go to school and the Parent should contact GP. GP will decide whether test needed or not. If test needed then all the household needs to restrict movement until results arrive. If result positive, then all household needs to be tested.

Now, it seems that what some Parents are doing is if a child has any of the listed symptoms, they are keeping the child out of school for 48 hours to see if the child improves (not necessarily that the symptoms in question are gone) and if there is an improvement then, the child is sent back to school without GP having been contacted. Only after 48 hours, if there is no improvement or if symptoms worsen is the GP contacted at that point.

Is this the correct way to approach it ? I am talking about children with symptoms here, not close contacts.

km79

SusanC10 wrote: »

I am finding that most Parents are confused about what to do if their child has symptoms. Based on the Class WhatsApp. And now it is confusing me too.

So, I thought that if a child had any 1 of the listed symptoms, they were not to go to school and the Parent should contact GP. GP will decide whether test needed or not. If test needed then all the household needs to restrict movement until results arrive. If result positive, then all household needs to be tested.

Now, it seems that what some Parents are doing is if a child has any of the listed symptoms, they are keeping the child out of school for 48 hours to see if the child improves (not necessarily that the symptoms in question are gone) and if there is an improvement then, the child is sent back to school without GP having been contacted. Only after 48 hours, if there is no improvement or if symptoms worsen is the GP contacted at that point.

Is this the correct way to approach it ? I am talking about children with symptoms here, not close contacts.

Not sure what’s confusing about that aspect
If a child (or anyone ) has symptoms they self isolate and contact GP who will arrange test

There is no other way to approach it !

SusanC10

km79 wrote: »

Not sure what’s confusing about that aspect
If a child (or anyone ) has symptoms they self isolate and contact GP who will arrange test

There is no other way to approach it !

Some Parents are not contacting the GP at all if the child has symptoms and "improves" within 48 hours. They are not contacting the GP as they don't want to have the child tested as they think that it is too invasive.

wirelessdude01

SusanC10 wrote: »

I am finding that most Parents are confused about what to do if their child has symptoms. Based on the Class WhatsApp. And now it is confusing me too.

So, I thought that if a child had any 1 of the listed symptoms, they were not to go to school and the Parent should contact GP. GP will decide whether test needed or not. If test needed then all the household needs to restrict movement until results arrive. If result positive, then all household needs to be tested.

Now, it seems that what some Parents are doing is if a child has any of the listed symptoms, they are keeping the child out of school for 48 hours to see if the child improves (not necessarily that the symptoms in question are gone) and if there is an improvement then, the child is sent back to school without GP having been contacted. Only after 48 hours, if there is no improvement or if symptoms worsen is the GP contacted at that point.

Is this the correct way to approach it ? I am talking about children with symptoms here, not close contacts.

The above is people choosing the interpretation that suits them. It is very black and white when it comes to schools.

km79

SusanC10 wrote: »

Some Parents are not contacting the GP at all if the child has symptoms and "improves" within 48 hours. They are not contacting the GP as they don't want to have the child tested as they think that it is too invasive.

Those parents are completely wrong and irresponsible. This type of thing is the reason we are still in lockdown.
It’s being going on for years in schools with kids being sent in sick . I thought people had wised up a little.

km79

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

The above is people choosing the interpretation that suits them. It is very black and white when it comes to schools.

It’s very black and white full stop.
Symptomatic people are to self isolate and contact GP to arrange test

wirelessdude01

SusanC10 wrote: »

Some Parents are not contacting the GP at all if the child has symptoms and "improves" within 48 hours. They are not contacting the GP as they don't want to have the child tested as they think that it is too invasive.

The reason they aren't going to the GP is to avoid being possible close contacts. This is a direct consequence of the message that children don't get it bad. The 'ahh sure it is just the flu' brigade.

wirelessdude01

km79 wrote: »

It’s very black and white full stop.
Symptomatic people are to self isolate and contact GP to arrange test

Cost isn't an issue as the GP call is free. Some people are just selfish.

SusanC10

km79 wrote: »

Those parents are completely wrong and irresponsible. This type of thing is the reason we are still in lockdown.
It’s being going on for years in schools with kids being sent in sick . I thought people had wider up a little.

So did I until yesterday. There are 4 kids absent from our daughter's class this week.
1 had symptoms and was tested - negative - which is a relief. But her sibling went to school and her father went to work during all of that.
1 had a stomach bug.
2 had at least one symptom and their Parents are keeping them at home for 48 hours to see if they "improve" before doing anything.

The mother of the child who tested negative posted on the Group Chat last night in case other Parents were worried which kicked off a discussion which revealed the viewpoint on the 48 hours.

SusanC10

SusanC10 wrote: »

I am finding that most Parents are confused about what to do if their child has symptoms. Based on the Class WhatsApp. And now it is confusing me too.

So, I thought that if a child had any 1 of the listed symptoms, they were not to go to school and the Parent should contact GP. GP will decide whether test needed or not. If test needed then all the household needs to restrict movement until results arrive. If result positive, then all household needs to be tested.

Now, it seems that what some Parents are doing is if a child has any of the listed symptoms, they are keeping the child out of school for 48 hours to see if the child improves (not necessarily that the symptoms in question are gone) and if there is an improvement then, the child is sent back to school without GP having been contacted. Only after 48 hours, if there is no improvement or if symptoms worsen is the GP contacted at that point.

Is this the correct way to approach it ? I am talking about children with symptoms here, not close contacts.

Your interpretation is 100% correct

Darwin

4 cases now in my wife's school, but it would appear parents have not informed the school. Lots of senior cycle kids missing too, not clear why yet.

A Shaved Duck?

Darwin wrote: »

4 cases now in my wife's school, but it would appear parents have not informed the school. Lots of senior cycle kids missing too, not clear why yet.

There is an issue with tests being organized properly, we received a text about our son being a close contact on monday and a test was being arranged so we pulled him and his brother out of school. They have no symptoms as yet thank god.

4 phonecalls later and we are still without an appointment..

Call 1 - Told it would be arranged within 24 hours
Call 2 - Told it would actually be 48 hours
Call 3 - repeated that 48 hour window was in play.
Call 4 - Told that we have somehow slipped through the net and no appointment arranged..!

We know of 3 other parents with Kids out of school this week getting the same run a round.

How can parents tell the schools anything when they cant get a straight answer from the people in charge of this.

Darwin

That's a fair enough point, and it is disgraceful the way you are being given the runaround like that.

anais

Class across the corridor out as close contacts. Positive case in class. Two of my pupils complaining of headache, sorethroat, stomach ache. Sent them home. Back in the next morning. Three more complaining of sore throats today.
On the hse letter home to the close contacts, a sore throat is listed as a symptom.
On the general letter to parents, sore throat is not mentioned.
I'm not sure if I need to send these kiddies home or just wait it out, maybe it's a tummy bug. No temps, but some haf taken neurofen so hard to know.
Feeling a bit vulnerable!

combat14

school only open a week and a bit and numbers back up from under 300 to almost 620 today...

vaccine rollout a complete shambles with june targets looking impossible to meet ..

fingers crossed businesses can reopen shortly but once again seems like we reopened schools too soon when there was absolutely no need

Jinglejangle69

combat14 wrote: »

school only open a week and a bit and numbers back up from under 300 to almost 620 today...

vaccine rollout a complete shambles with june targets looking impossible to meet ..

fingers crossed businesses can reopen shortly but once again seems like we reopened schools too soon when there was absolutely no need

There is a backlog today.

We knew opening schools would result in cases going up.

We can't hide from covid forever.

Kids education is so important, covid isn't the only show in town.

ICU numbers are down and hospitalisations, that's all that matters.

We're moving on in life, simple as.

harr

My son was a close contact on a confirmed case got call from school Tuesday lunch time saying he might be a close contact and to wait confirmation from HSE ..
Got confirmation and test yesterday and results back in 14 hours ( negative) found the process seem less.
Only issue is HSE said he can return to school but school seems to think he has to wait ten days from his last contact with the other child .. confused

khalessi

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

We knew opening schools would result in cases going up.

We can't hide from covid forever.

Kids education is so important, covid isn't the only show in town.

ICU numbers are down and hospitalisations, that's all that matters.

We're moving on in life, simple as.

The thing is, you might know, I might know, the cat on the street knows but NPHET HSE and Dept all say schools are safe. NPHET are just short of blaming joggers and people driving with windows open on rise in covid cases.

Education is important and implementing more safety measures would not go amiss but no it is easier to deny schools have cases and they are part of the reason for the rise in cases.

10 weeks left to go before end of school year, they never reversed the cut to the cleaning budget, I presume they are trying to hit this through vaccination at one end and herd immunity at the other.

Jinglejangle69

khalessi wrote: »

The thing is, you might know, I might know, the cat on the street knows but NPHET HSE and Dept all say schools are safe. NPHET are just short of blaming joggers and people driving with windows open on rise in covid cases.

Education is important and implementing more safety measures would not go amiss but no it is easier to deny schools have cases and they are part of the reason for the rise in cases.

10 weeks left to go before end of school year, they never reversed the cut to the cleaning budget, I presume they are trying to hit this through vaccination at one end and herd immunity at the other.

Schools aren't safe. Nowhere is safe bar locking yourself in your room for the rest of your days.

But most people still are out working knowing the risks are minute.

Life must go on.

KerryConnor

I'm all for keeping schools open.
But there was a positive case in my daughters class yesterday and they sent only Pod home. So only 4 kids will be tested. Everyone else in class back in today after sharing a room/yard/toilet with a positive case.
While at this point I agree 2 weeks out is very disruptive and transmission is often v low in school setting .. Why on earth aren't they doing similar to health care settings.. Declare the whole class (or school for that matter) casual contacts so they all get a test straight away even if they dont have to isolate.
Seems insane to have 25 kids in the classroom today, no tests, no idea if another child is carrying it and further transmitting it.

khalessi

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Schools aren't safe. Nowhere is safe bar locking yourself in your room for the rest of your days.

But most people still are out working knowing the risks are minute.

Life must go on.

Did I say life mustn't go on, nope.

The point I made is that NPHET refuse to accept that schools arent safe, you can say it, I can say it but they are steadfastly ignoring it. Why not admit it like you have and do something about it, if education is so bloody important to them?

Natterjack from Kerry

khalessi wrote: »

Did I say life mustn't go on, nope.

The point I made is that NPHET refuse to accept that schools arent safe, you can say it, I can say it but they are steadfastly ignoring it. Why not admit it like you have and do something about it, if education is so bloody important to them?

Schools are neither safe nor unsafe. Efforts by teachers to paint the matter in such simplistic terms for people are well educated and should no better, but have been blinded by selfishness officialised and spearheaded by their unions, has fooled no one. It is a question of risk. Not a binary safe/unsafe. And by all expert analysis, and in comparison with other large sections of the population and work environments, the focus teachers have drawn of their sense of specialness is obscene. I dont think any other sector will come out of this crisis with the reputations more reduced.

khalessi

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

Schools are neither safe nor unsafe. Efforts by teachers to paint the matter in such simplistic terms for people are well educated and should no better, but have been blinded by selfishness officialised and spearheaded by their unions, has fooled no one. It is a question of risk. Not a binary safe/unsafe. And by all expert analysis, and in comparison with other large sections of the population and work environments, the focus teachers have drawn of their sense of specialness is obscene. I dont think any other sector will come out of this crisis with the reputations more reduced.

Actually teachers reputations wont have changed they have been bashed for years, long history on boards going back to early 2000s, what it will show up is the narrow mindness of people who have nothing better to do then slag off teachers.

Darwin

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

Schools are neither safe nor unsafe. Efforts by teachers to paint the matter in such simplistic terms for people are well educated and should no better, but have been blinded by selfishness officialised and spearheaded by their unions, has fooled no one. It is a question of risk. Not a binary safe/unsafe. And by all expert analysis, and in comparison with other large sections of the population and work environments, the focus teachers have drawn of their sense of specialness is obscene. I dont think any other sector will come out of this crisis with the reputations more reduced.

You couldn't be more wrong. The REACT-1 study in England (and many many others) show that children are frequently infected with Covid and children transmit the virus at very similar rates to adults. If you had bothered to read this thread properly you will see that teachers are simply asking for very basic measures that are already present in many other European countries. For example, this should include regular blanket testing of all students and staff. In some countries this is done twice a week. In Austria, every citizen gets 5 free covid test kits every month, N95 masks are available for 59c, most pharmacies do covid testing with results available same day. And where are we in comparison?

PowerToWait

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

Schools are neither safe nor unsafe. Efforts by teachers to paint the matter in such simplistic terms for people are well educated and should no better, but have been blinded by selfishness officialised and spearheaded by their unions, has fooled no one. It is a question of risk. Not a binary safe/unsafe. And by all expert analysis, and in comparison with other large sections of the population and work environments, the focus teachers have drawn of their sense of specialness is obscene. I dont think any other sector will come out of this crisis with the reputations more reduced.

Can you name one other profession where one spends hours at a time in small rooms with quite possibly hundreds of people from different households?

I’ll wait.

Natterjack from Kerry

PowerToWait wrote: »

Can you name one other profession where one spends hours at a time in small rooms with quite possibly hundreds of people from different households?

This is the where the lack of sophistication and understanding of the risk is betrayed. The matter cannot be reduced to such limited and simplistic analyses. But there is an attempt to push the teachers' position with this type of argument. Very few have fallen for it.